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Interview: James Cameron Avatar 2 2018 release Unlikely

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The reason is money. Why go against Avatar 2? They'll both effect each other grosses.

December wasn't supposed to be when these films came out in the first place. It just got muddied (in a good way) when Force Awakens got the biggest OW in history in December. People began wondering if they'd ever go back to "tradition" and get back to May.

Some (like me) think "tradition schmadition" stick to what's working right now, but apparently the studio was always looking to get back to May as soon as they could. Episode 8 was briefly slotted there before getting bumped back, I believe.

The entire idea of seasons in the box office is, itself, becoming outmoded. It's a concept that loses more traction every year.
 
He's only 62.

I mean Ridley Scott is 79 and wants to make 6 Alien movies.

Well atleast Ridley is able to release movies. I don't mind waiting for movies to come out, but I must say waiting a decade for something to release puts a damper on my hype.
 

Somnia

Member
BTW for everyone saying Episode 9 is December 2019, they're going back to May releases with Han Solo and Episode 9 should be May 2019, not Christmas 2019 as I believe Episode 9 is set for May 24th 2019 as of now.
 

gamz

Member
Well atleast Ridley is able to release movies. I don't mind waiting for movies to come out, but I must say waiting a decade for something to release puts a damper on my hype.

And he also releases a lot of shit. Every filmmaker works differently.
 
Well atleast Ridley is able to release movies. I don't mind waiting for movies to come out, but I must say waiting a decade for something to release puts a damper on my hype.
Ridley probably could have used Cameron's painstaking pre-planning when he dove back into the Alien universe with Prometheus.
 

Blader

Member
The reason is money. Why go against Avatar 2? They'll both effect each other grosses.

As long as Disney is leading off those two same two Mays with Avengers movies, I'm not sure May is a great month for Star Wars anymore.
 

Somnia

Member
As long as Disney is leading off those two same two Mays with Avengers movies, I'm not sure May is a great month for Star Wars anymore.

Disney has been pretty adamant about getting Star Wars back to Memorial Day weekend so I think they are pretty hell bent on doing it at this point.
 

Jacce

Banned
Well that's basically the whole point of even worrying about box office though. Citing the numbers and then shrugging off what they mean and how/why they count doesn't make sense. If you don't care, you're not looking at em in the first place. If you do care... You care. So those distinctions do mean something.
The only financials that matter are when you can spin it to your own personal bias obviously Bobby ;).

You are exactly right. If you try to argue $ a film makes to declare which is more successful like Solo did context matters. Always.

A film that makes 300 mil but cost 200 mil is less successful than a film that costs 10 mil but makes 150 mil.

A film that makes 500 mil domestic and 100 overseas and none in China is more successful than a film that makes 200 mil domestic and 500 mil overseas with 100 mil of that in China.

A film that makes 500 mil with a 200 mil budget and 100 mil marketing budget is less successful than a 125 mil budgeted film that makes 400 mil on a 50 mil marketing budget.

Budget, marketing, and domestic to overseas percentage matters if you are trying to cite $$$ to declare a film bigger/more successful than another.

Until there are major changes in how US studios get their cut of grosses overseas in Europe, Asia, etc studios will continue to value domestic grosses far more than overseas gross.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
10 year anniversary release of sequel in a supposedly current ongoing series. That's a paddling.

They missed the 25th anniversary of Fern Gully last year so I suppose this next slot makes sense.
 

TDLink

Member
The Star Wars vs Avatar stuff is a dumb argument to be had because neither studio will ever let it come to that. The truth is we don't know which would come out on top. A Star Wars movie hasn't directly gone up against a James Cameron movie before. James Cameron does have the two highest grossing films at the box office ever (with Avatar as #1) but Star Wars is the biggest film franchise ever. The outcome of a direct head to head is completely up in the air, and whichever one "wins" it likely means less business for both if they release separately.

I believe Lucasfilm wants to move Star Wars to the May period anyways and away from December (even though it's working for them) starting with the Han Solo movie. FOX will likely retain December for Avatar once they start rolling out. That's what I think will happen. But even if they both try to go for December, I guarantee one of them will blink. FOX and Disney will both not allow this head to head to occur.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Cameron's gonna spend the rest of his career making Avatar sequels.

giphy.gif

yeah, it feels like a waste
 
I believe Lucasfilm wants to move Star Wars to the May period anyways and away from December (even though it's working for them) starting with the Han Solo movie. FOX will likely retain December for Avatar once they start rolling out. That's what I think will happen. But even if they both try to go for December, I guarantee one of them will blink. FOX and Disney will both not allow this head to head to occur.

Nah, it has to be all-out war for financial dominance! Damn the consequences, one shall stand, one shall fall! It's like when people honestly thought Civil War and Batman v Superman were going to open on the same day. Like, they seriously entertained this notion.

As it is, the way modern box-office works, you only really need about 3 weekends tops without equivalent competition. Unless you're a juggernaut of unforeseen proportions. In which case it won't matter at all.

But a lot of massive films make most of that massive money in their first three-to-four weeks. After that it's just the slow business of legging it out. If Avatar wanted to get some of that holiday money, it could claim Thanksgiving, and that'd give it a month before Star Wars dropped. Or vice versa. It's not as all-or-nothing as everyone wants to make the shit. These studios don't really want to get in each other's way. They just wanna maximize their profits if they can. And increasingly, more studio heads are exploring new ideas on how to do that via their scheduling. And audiences seem to be liking that.

Because the concept of Box Office Seasons was always kinda dumb, honestly. Related to that: The idea that "competition" is a guaranteed bat to the kneecaps for a film doesn't make a whole ton of sense, either. I believe there are studies that state multiple successful films in release at roughly the same time doesn't hurt either film, and in fact, helps the box-office overall, as more people wind up spending time at the movie theater than they normally would.

(also worth noting: Almost every Avatar discussion immediately becomes a box-office thread, and the large majority of discussion about the film, and its creator, is focused through that specific prism)
 
Avatar now is not what it was 10 years ago.
Star Wars now is not what it was 10 years ago.

I would be wise to not go against Star Wars at this point.
 

Jacce

Banned
Can't believe the original was 8 years ago. The film industry moves so slow.
The film industry? We will have 5 Star Wars movies since Avatar before the second. About 400 Marvel movies. What, like 6-8 X-Men films? A bunch of Harry Potter movies. A bunch of fast and the furious films. The entire hunger games series...etc

How is that slow.
 

DMczaf

Member
China alone would cause Disney to blink. Not to mention that Star Wars will be the somewhat oversaturated property come 2019.

Even if Episode 8 is amazing and hypes people up for 9, 9 is still gonna be some factory-line, Trevorrow-directed affair in the path of a James Cameron movie.

I'm not a fan of Avatar at all....but damn it you're right.

After the last several years of factory line films from Disney, I miss blockbusters that are truly the vision of the director and not the boardroom
 

Somnia

Member
Does anyone actually give a shit about Avatar anymore? A 3-4 year spacing seems tolerable, but a decade is pushing it.

As many have said, the reason no one talks about Avatar anymore is because there is nothing to talk about. They had no post content such as movies, comic books, animated series, books, etc. it just went quiet. We honestly won't know till the new movie comes out.

However despite that there seems to be new discussions of Avatar on the internet pretty often, even if it's a lot of people saying they disliked it or "does anyone care anymore". So in the end it's being talked about one way or another.
 
I'm not a fan of Avatar at all....but damn it you're right.

After the last several years of factory line films from Disney, I miss blockbusters that are truly the vision of the director and not the boardroom
Yeah.

Disney we're more interesting to me when they were indulging Verbinski's ridiculous requests and spending $400m on John Carter of Mars.

These days, they're certainly more financially responsible, but the 'vision' of guy's like Trevorrow are being rewarded with Star Wars sequels while Verbinski, Bird and Stanton try desperately to break out of director's jail. It's especially appalling when out of The Lone Ranger, John Carter and Tomorrowland, so much of the blame of at least two of those failures lies directly at the feel of Disney's godawful marketing of the films.
 

Solo

Member
Tomorrowland is garden fresh shit though, Sculli.Pretty much indefensible. And I hated MI4 too, so safe to say I haven't been a fan of Bird's live action forays. But I do agree about The Lone Ranger (which is basically the real Pirates 4 and is a darn fun film with signature Verbinski impeccable setpieces) and even moreso about John Carter, which was a damn fine film. Luckily Stanton is directing 2 episodes of Stranger Things 2.
 

Blader

Member
John Carter and Tomorrowland were pretty average movies. I have not seen The Lone Ranger but something tells me that movie didn't need to be 2.5 hours. I also haven't liked anything by Gore Verbinski, so I'm in no rush to find out for myself either.

And Bird was offered Episode VII but turned it down to do Tomorrowland. Whoops.
 

Solo

Member
John Carter and Tomorrowland were pretty average movies. I have not seen The Lone Ranger but something tells me that movie didn't need to be 2.5 hours. I also haven't liked anything by Gore Verbinski, so I'm in no rush to find out for myself either.

It definitely fits the mold of Verbinski's films have 40-50 extra minutes that could have been trimmed and the film made better for it. But I'm still a fan. He has a great eye and is one of the better action directors out there.
 
Yeah, Verbinski is in director jail because those last two Pirates movies were very not good, and The Lone Ranger was also very not good (although a little better, at least).

Rango seems to be forgotten, but that's because for whatever reason nobody wants to count animated films as "real movies" or whatever. Shit happens to Spielberg, too. Like, Tintin never really gets brought up despite the fact it's probably as close as he's gotten to late '80s Spielberg in a very, very long time.

John Carter was a bland, mostly inert "adventure" that suffered from misguided focus from the start, and that came through in the finished filmmaking. (Why the movie wasn't called Princess of Mars and focused on her, making John a 2nd lead/supporting character, I don't know. But I can't imagine that streamlined focus wouldn't have helped that thing, because spending all that time with Taylor Kitsch and his flatlined story arc certainly didn't help)

Tomorrowland was just bad.
 

Solo

Member
As far as what hype A2 does or does not have, A1 had no hype either until the summer prior to it's release. None. Was already being called a bigger disaster than Titanic was supposed to be before it released). But then they had that 3D preview/prologue thing (I don't know, I didn't get to see it) which drummed up a little bit of hype, then they dropped this great trailer and it was off to the races:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PSNL1qE6VY

I expect a similar pattern for A2. Radio silence (unless Fox theatrical re-releases the first film as an opening salvo), some kind of special preview in Summer 2019/2020, a balls out trailer after, then let word of mouth do the rest. Having the theme park too will drum up hype for he younger crowd.
 

Ecotic

Member
I still have doubts that these films will ever be made. Cameron seems crippled into inaction by perfectionism and a desire to make the most absurdly big-budget project imaginable.
 
I expect a similar pattern for A2. Radio silence (unless Fox theatrical re-releases the first film as an opening salvo), some kind of special preview in Summer 2019/2020, a balls out trailer after, then let word of mouth do the rest. Having the theme park too will drum up hype for he younger crowd.

Why would you expect a similar pattern for a sequel to the highest grossing film at the worldwide box-office?

They're not going to do that. The fact there's a theme park makes the notion they're going to just quietly drop Avatar 2 seem silly.

Fox is going to sell the living bejesus out of this fucking thing once they actually have something to sell. They're not going to assume radio silence.
 

Solo

Member
I still have doubts that these films will ever be made.

They are being made right now. Physically.

I know the wait is obscene, but consider that they're making 4 concurrently and that they'll hit 4 straight years (okay, let's say 4 in 6-7 years), and it's no so bad.

Now, why Cameron didn't hit this hard in 2010 instead of waiting til 2016 to get things into motion, I cannot say. That's my only concern, is that they sat on their hands (and pile of 2 billion dollars) faaaar too long.
 

Blader

Member
Cameron said he's spending the next 8 years of his life on these movies, so taking that literally and assuming Avatar 2 actually hits in 2019 now, my guess is the movies would be spread out over every other year between 2019 and 2025.

2025! Holy hell.
 

jett

D-Member
I have to agree with Bobby Roberts. None of the blockbusters mentioned are really all that great, if that. John Carter, Tomorrowland, The Lone Ranger. They're passable at best. Well maybe not Tomorrowland. Shit sucks. Bird and Stanton should stick to animation for the rest of their careers.
 

Solo

Member
Cameron said he's spending the next 8 years of his life on these movies, so taking that literally and assuming Avatar 2 actually hits in 2019 now, my guess is the movies would be spread out over every other year between 2019 and 2025.

2025! Holy hell.

2017....work on A2/A3/A4/A5
2018....work on A2/A3/A4/A5
2019....release A2, work on A3/A4/A5
2020....work on A3/A4/A5
2021....release A3, work on A4/A5
2022....work on A4/A5
2023....release A4, work on A5
2024....work on A5
2025....release A5

? Maybe? I dunno. If they're truly being shot concurrently, then I feel like A2 is the hardest to get out quickly. I would tend to think it would be more reasonable to get A2 in 2019, A3 in 2021, A4 in 2022, and A5 in 2024. I feel like at least 2 of them will hit in consecutive years.
 
They are being made right now. Physically.

I know the wait is obscene, but consider that they're making 4 concurrently and that they'll hit 4 straight years (okay, let's say 4 in 6-7 years), and it's no so bad.

Now, why Cameron didn't hit this hard in 2010 instead of waiting til 2016 to get things into motion, I cannot say. That's my only concern, is that they sat on their hands (and pile of 2 billion dollars) faaaar too long.
The truth is he actually spent years trying to crack the scripts. He had a rough idea for the rest of the story long before the first ever hit, but only actually started to write (what ended up being a 1600 page document) in 2011. I think it WAS IN 2013/14 that he brought in his team of four screenwriters To co-write the films with him in that TV-style writers room he created for the sequels, using that 1600 page story outline as the blueprint.

Then we know that right before James Horner's death last year, Horner himself stated that Cameron was still trying to fit the story into three scripts - which obviously was too hard, so we got the announcement that it would be four sequels.

But the dude has actually just been cracking the story all this time while simultaneously doing R&D and concept work on the side.
 

Schlorgan

Member
How does Star Wars domestically "own" Cameron when there is literally ONE Star Wars film (hell, literally ONE film period) ahead of Avatar and Titanic on the all-time domestic chart? By my math, that puts the 7 other Star Wars movies behind Avatar and Titanic.

Cameron films only come once every ten years now though.
 
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