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Investigators Say Orlando Shooter May Have No Link To ISIS

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D

D'ultimate

Member
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/18/482621690/investigators-say-orlando-shooter-showed-few-warning-signs-of-radicalization

As investigators probe the background of Omar Mateen, whose attack on Pulse nightclub in Orlando left 49 people dead, they say he bore few warning signs of radicalization.

Mateen had allegedly pledged allegiance to ISIS in a 911 call during the attack, as The Two-Way has reported. But as further details emerge about the shooter, investigators say Mateen's profile is more like that of a "typical mass shooter" than an individual radicalized by ISIS, as NPR's Dina Temple-Raston reports.

In fact, intelligence officials and investigators say they're "becoming increasingly convinced that the motive for this attack had very little — or maybe nothing — to do with ISIS."
Click to expand...

Investigators have also been struck by "how closely Mateen's biography adheres to profiles that they associate with typical mass shooters," Dina adds:

"He was bullied as a kid in school. He had well-documented behavioral problems. He was aggressive toward other kids. As he got older, things didn't get much better. He took steroids, he jumped from job to job, he had a history of domestic violence. And all these things together fit into a mass shooter's profile."
Click to expand...

"Mateen may have had some problems with his sexuality, maybe even had some latent attraction to men. And he lashed out at the gay community as a result."
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This was something I've wondered from the outset of this tragedy. I know his father may have just been BSing and trying to protect his family or what not but I just wonder if maybe he was just a bullied, bullying, self-hating closeted homosexual who just used ISIS to gain more exposure for his act.

What say you?
 
F

FZZ

Banned
I mean after the fact that he frequented gay bars came out and how sudden his call to the police and doing it in the name of ISIS was i wouldn't be surprised.
 
M

MechaX

Member
FZZ said:
I mean after the fact that he frequented gay bars came out and how sudden his call to the police and doing it in the name of ISIS was i wouldn't be surprised.
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Not just in the name of ISIS, but in the name of three different groups with opposing ideals who are currently shooting at each other.
 
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NegroNinja

Member
But does it even matter what the motive was? This just means that it goes from "Dem Damn Mooslims" to "Mentally Disturbed Man Kills 50". Unless we actually DO something about it this time it's still business as usual. I mean we don't want anyone to lose thier hobby over this.
 
A

Az987

all good things
Yeah that's what I thought when it came out he had been to the club a lot and was on gay dating sites.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
NegroNinja said:
But does it even matter what the motive was? This just means that it goes from "Dem Damn Mooslims" to "Mentally Disturbed Man Kills 50". Unless we actually DO something about it this time it's still business as usual. I mean we don't want anyone to lose thier hobby over this.
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The people who don't want violence and rhetoric against LGBT to be an issue have a vested interest in pushing this act as "Muslims hate our freedom DURR!"
 
S

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
This analysis should be pretty clear to anyone that's been following the guy's backstory.

But buckle down for the rush of right-wing tears that his Islamic ties are being swept under the rug by galldamn political correctness! The floodgates are a-creakin'.
 
C

CarpeDeezNutz

Member
Bullshit, Obummer just wants to refuse to call this an act of RADICALISED ISLAMIC TERRORISM!!!!

/s


Seemed like the ISIS pledge was a ruse tbh.
 
D

Darkgran

Member
Really makes me made how this whole thing has been twisted.

People (right wing media) want to make you think it was ISIS who coordinated the attack.

Its absolutely sickening...
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
Yeah, it became fairly apparent early on that whatever ties this guy had to Isis were weak or non-existent. Doesn't surprise me if there weren't the real reason behind his attack.

But yelling radical islam from the rooftops is surely going to fix this problem in the future.
 
T

Theanine3D

Member
It makes ISIS look even stupider.

They claimed responsibility for the attack to make themselves look stronger.
When in fact it was committed by a self-hating gay guy whose sexual orientation they despise and would have beheaded him for.
 
C

cameron

Member
Investigators have also been struck by "how closely Mateen's biography adheres to profiles that they associate with typical mass shooters," Dina adds:

"He was bullied as a kid in school. He had well-documented behavioral problems. He was aggressive toward other kids. As he got older, things didn't get much better. He took steroids, he jumped from job to job, he had a history of domestic violence. And all these things together fit into a mass shooter's profile."​

Dina says Mateen reportedly beat both his first wife and his second one — and "violence and control and power are often precursors to mass attacks."
Click to expand...

NYT wrote a piece after the Umpqua Community College shooting: "Mass Murderers Fit Profile, as Do Many Others Who Don’t Kill"
“The big problem is that the kind of pattern that describes them describes tens of thousands of Americans — even people who write awful things on Facebook or the Internet,” said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University who has studied and written about mass murderers. “We can’t round up all the people who scare us.”
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Those who study these types of mass murderers have found that they are almost always male (all but two of the 160 cases isolated by Dr. Duwe). Most are single, separated or divorced. The majority are white. With the exception of student shooters at high schools or lower schools, they are usually older than the typical murderer, often in their 30s or 40s.

They vary in ideology. They generally have bought their guns legally. Many had evidence of mental illness, particularly those who carried out random mass killings. But others did not, and most people with mental illness are not violent.

“They’re depressed,” Dr. Fox said. “They’re not out of touch with reality. They don’t hear voices. They don’t think the people they’re shooting are gophers.”
Click to expand...
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Damage is already done. The GOP haa effectivelg turned the shooting motive away from a hate crime to JIHAD IN AMERICA TERRORIST COMING TO KILL YOU AND OBAMA IS GONNA TAKE YOUR GUNS
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Isis is an egotistical cry for attention. He seems to have had multiple long term issues and was generally a douche. If isis gave him a excuse then terrorism is still an aspect. And he was trivially able to buy guns. All of it is true. Our quest for simplicity makes everything more complex.
 
davepoobond

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
the requirement to align yourself with ISIS is basically as flimsy as simply saying you are doing it for them. it seems more like a cover/diversion from whatever the actual "real" reason is.

in San Bernardino, it seemed to be more like a workplace violence thing, and in this case, a hate crime. the "hybridizing" of our usual mass murders and invoking ISIS seems like it would be the bigger commonality with these events
 
D

dejay

Banned
I suspect that this was an expression of self loathing brought on by being caught between some very grating cultural differences. He may have grabbed onto the ISIS message as a justification or to try and hide his real motives.

I believe the line between someone being radicalised and a "normal" mass shooter is often very thin - "I've got nothing much to live for so may as well take out a bunch of people I've externalised my pain onto".

Whether that idea is planted by watching the media (watching similar attacks) or being introduced deliberately, it seems to push certain people over the line. On top of that, the intense media coverage and scrutiny of these events is pretty much a guide on how to carry them out - how the police caught them, what their preparation was, their manifestos, etc.
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
The sad thing is that the people who truly need to hear this won't notice or won't care. The narrative among many has already shifted toward the erasure of the homophobic aspect of this shooting for the sake of more fearmongering against muslims.

What Jeff Sessions said about the matter on Tuesday still enrages me.
 
M

m_shortpants

Member
Too late, all of the media has already run with the story that he was ISIS. Queue more fear mongering, Trump support, and general xenophobia.
 
T

The Beard

Member
What about his wife's involvement? Bringing him to gay bars that were 2 hours from their house. Scoping out Disneyworld. Giving his house away to a family member for $10 two months before the attack?

It was all because he was a self hating closeted gay man? And his family was supportive about it?
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
Well I'm not surprised. From the start, it seemed very unlikely that he was actually operating under ISIS's direction, or even their influence. Which -- ironically -- is a good thing, since this can't be used as an excuse to hate Muslims (since this in all likelihood had nothing to do with religious extremism).

I wouldn't be surprised if the shooter's motives were more aligned to the motives of a school shooter, rather than a religious extremist (i.e. a personal conflict, rather that it being political)
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
Shig said:
This analysis should be pretty clear to anyone that's been following the guy's backstory.

But buckle down for the rush of right-wing tears that his Islamic ties are being swept under the rug by galldamn political correctness! The floodgates are a-creakin'.
Click to expand...
I think you mean "librul media!"

But seriously, this doesn't surprise me. From the information we have already, this makes much more sense.
 
P

pacificrex

Banned
If there genuinely was no link to ISIS, or even inspiration gained from ISIS, people don't exactly need more reasons to fear a group that lines 200 innocent people up in front of a mass grave and shoots them all in the face on a regular basis anyway.
 
Flying Toaster

Flying Toaster

Member
The greatest crippling effect to ISIS would be horrible activities that could not be linked to them. Terrorism lives off of fear. Remove an organizations ties to fearful events and said organizations loose power.
 
T

TheRealTalker

Banned
didn't the dude also swear allegiances to al-Qaida, Hezbollah, & Islamic State

which is funny since anyone with a basic understanding of Geo-Politics know all of these guys are arch enemies of each other
Valen said:
It makes ISIS look even stupider.

They claimed responsibility for the attack to make themselves look stronger.
When in fact it was committed by a self-hating gay guy whose sexual orientation they despise and would have beheaded him for.
Click to expand...

I was listening to a Radio talk... I believe was the CBC with a terror expert analysis and they also pointed that out

ISIS in under to seem bigger and more threatening scoop up responsibility for anyone fighting for their claim

even if there were no dialogue between the two
 
B

Biske

Member
Seemed fairly clear for a while now. But in this country with our love of doing ISIS's marketing for them, you are linked to ISIS until proven... well you are just always linked to ISIS.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Betty said:
Kinda figured him pledging allegiance to isis was just a way to cover his true motive.
Click to expand...

Exactly. After the news came out that he frequented it, I dropped any "terrorist" angle and considered it self-hate.
 
K

knkng

Member
MIMIC said:
Well I'm not surprised. From the start, it seemed very unlikely that he was actually operating under ISIS's direction, or even their influence. Which -- ironically -- is a good thing, since this can't be used as an excuse to hate Muslims (since this in all likelihood had nothing to do with religious extremism).

I wouldn't be surprised if the shooter's motives were more aligned to the motives of a school shooter, rather than a religious extremist (i.e. a personal conflict, rather that it being political)
Click to expand...

He wasn't operating under ISIS's direction, but he still had the seed planted into his head somehow. A conflict over one's sexuality on this scale doesn't simply conjure up out of thin air. I think it's still important to address the institutionalized homophobia and the legitimacy it is given by major religions, rather than simply saying "Oh well he was just a crazy guy."

If we can have anti-bullying campaigns in schools, then perhaps we can start pressing religious institutions to adapt anti-homophobia or all-inclusive attitudes. I just hope that this doesn't become a "whew, they're not looking at us anymore, we can go back to being unabashedly homophobic" type of thing.

But I do agree that this was not a political statement on the shooter's part.
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
I love how readily everyone, from the layperson to the media, 100% believes ISIS when they say they claim an attack.

Like how the fuck do you not suspect they just claim responsibility because it's a popular story?
 
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