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[TI82]

This game is so fun.

 

[epmode]

Being that the game is randomly generated, it's pretty much a deal breaker for me

I'm not sure how this would benefit from set-in-stone level design. The entire game is built around the player not knowing what's next (and whether or not they should risk finding out).

You probably didn't mean to imply anything by it but procedural level design doesn't necessarily mean "random". Level generators aren't created equally. Some, like Invisible Inc, are tuned incredibly well.

 

[Miker]

This thread is a strange read after the XCOM 2 threads, where the response from lots of people was "omg procedurally generated levels thank u firaxis." The two games are very different, of course, but as Invisible Inc is a shorter campaign (6-8 hrs) meant to be replayed with different agents and items, the procedurally generated levels make perfect sense, and they're well-made. I suppose they could've gone for more hand-crafted levels with randomized enemy layouts, but I don't think that would've been as compelling for a stealth game that's high on risk/reward. The levels are a bit samey, though, which is unfortunate. I wish there were more than two tilesets - and even then, one is only used on the final mission.

Also, for those worried about it being too difficult or random, the game has rewinds, of which you get 5 per mission on easy, 3 on medium, and 1 on expert. Guards also don't cross between rooms on easy, so the difficulty is very reasonable and scalable.

 

[Anno]

This thread is a strange read after the XCOM 2 threads, where the response from lots of people was "omg procedurally generated levels thank u firaxis." The two games are very different, of course, but as Invisible Inc is a shorter campaign (6-8 hrs) meant to be replayed with different agents and items, the procedurally generated levels make perfect sense, and they're well-made. I suppose they could've gone for more hand-crafted levels with randomized enemy layouts, but I don't think that would've been as compelling for a stealth game that's high on risk/reward. The levels are a bit samey, though, which is unfortunate. I wish there were more than two tilesets - and even then, one is only used on the final mission.

Also, for those worried about it being too difficult or random, the game has rewinds, of which you get 5 per mission on easy, 3 on medium, and 1 on expert. Guards also don't cross between rooms on easy, so the difficulty is very reasonable and scalable.

It's also super fair difficulty. Very little of the game is obscured. You get to see basically everything about other units, including even where they patrol. Aside from the random generation of the map (which tends to be pretty good) very little is randomized. It's great and people should definitely give it a look if they're interested at all in the genre.

 

[jrDev]

Need to get back into playing this. It's REALLY good!

This and Darkest Dungeon are my first Computer games in a long time and my foray into Steam Store madness...

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

A fantastic game that was desperately in need of map variety to sustain its roguelike random generation beyond a small handful of runs. The issue with procedural stages here was never that the environments felt under-designed or tactically uninteresting—far from it—but that there wasn't enough variation in the raw material plopped on the map to keep the players on their toes. After a few passes, I walked away satisfied but feeling like I'd seen everything, and I'm pleased the post-launch support claims to address this. I'll have to play it again to see for myself just how much meat there is in this patch.

The core mechanics are stupendous, though, to the point that I've found myself unable to return to Shadowrun after seeing Invisible, Inc. run laps around it. A master class in how to design turn-based tactics with no resort to RNG in the engagements themselves.

 

[Callibretto]

Randomly generated levels really make me wary of this game. Comparison to ftl kinda enforce it too. I really enjoy ftl for like an hour or two and never got back to it again.

Does the game has story campaign that you beat or it's just endless random generated mission you play with no end?

 

[Hektor]

Randomly generated levels really make me wary of this game. Comparison to ftl kinda enforce it too. I really enjoy ftl for like an hour or two and never got back to it again.

Does the game has story campaign that you beat or it's just endless random generated mission you play with no end?

It has a story, consisting of a 2 min cutscene at the beginning and the end. But the missions themselfs are still 100% random generated. It really is like ftl in that regard.

 

[alexandros]

Great game guys. Buy it!

 

[Lord Panda]

I've been waiting patiently for the ps4 version.

 

[duckroll]

Played it for a bit. I dunno. I've restarted about 3 times now, and I'm not sure if I can say I enjoy the procedural generation in the game. It honestly feels more like a roguelike game than a proper strategy game, even though all the system mechanics are there. There's really no telling how easy or hard a mission could be because you can get totally fucked by the generation, so when you're given a choice of a few missions to pick, it doesn't feel like an informed choice so much as a crapshoot. The generation also makes the stages all feel very samey and generic, rather than having any sort of unique set piece or memorable level design.

Kinda disappointed that it's not what I expected it to be. :/

 

[eFKac]

Loved Don't Starve so will give this a shot once it comes to the PS4.

 

[Fractal]

I'm not sure how this would benefit from set-in-stone level design. The entire game is built around the player not knowing what's next (and whether or not they should risk finding out).

You probably didn't mean to imply anything by it but procedural level design doesn't necessarily mean "random". Level generators aren't created equally. Some, like Invisible Inc, are tuned incredibly well.

Yeah, didn't mean completely random, of course... it's just that I find even the best level generators (FTL and Rogue Legacy, both highly praised) rather inconsistent, and I hate it when the challenge level comes from the luck of the draw. The "genre" simply isn't for me... here's hoping their next game is more to my liking...

 

[Mockerre]

It has a story, consisting of a 2 min cutscene at the beginning and the end. But the missions themselfs are still 100% random generated. It really is like ftl in that regard.

This is what I came here to ask about. I get bored of randomly generated content, roguelike and psedoroguelike elements quickly. I played FTL for 2 hours and was done. I played Don't Starve till I died and was done. Played Terraria for about 10, never wanted a second playthrough.

For me the sweetspot between scripted and randomly generated is the original UFO: Enemy Unknown or the spiritual succesor UFO: After series, that is randomly generated mission levels and that's it; the story, technology, world, everything progresses in a linear fashion with story elements.

Overly randomly generated games give me the feeling of pointlessness.

 

[Remachinate]

Glad to see this thread is still going.

The random levels makes it impossible to play perfectly though. For example, lets say you have a guard that's about to enter your starting room, so you move in to the next one. But that room has multiple doors and you have no way of knowing if another guard is going to come out of one of them.

By "perfectly", I don't necessarily mean "ghost", just that you can complete the objective and collect all safes without losing a party member. Sometimes knockouts are necessary, and situations like that do require melee overwatch on the door.

Played it for a bit. I dunno. I've restarted about 3 times now, and I'm not sure if I can say I enjoy the procedural generation in the game. It honestly feels more like a roguelike game than a proper strategy game, even though all the system mechanics are there. There's really no telling how easy or hard a mission could be because you can get totally fucked by the generation, so when you're given a choice of a few missions to pick, it doesn't feel like an informed choice so much as a crapshoot. The generation also makes the stages all feel very samey and generic, rather than having any sort of unique set piece or memorable level design.

Kinda disappointed that it's not what I expected it to be. :/

It sounds like it's just a matter of taste in this case. In case you haven't given up on it though, I just want to point out a few things:

1) It's not intended to be a proper strategy game, it's really a stealth game expressed through turn-based tactical elements. I feel like one's approach to the game changes when you play it more like MotN than XCOM, and refocus on methodically staying out of sight and observing guards rather than going aggressive.
2) The choice of missions has more to do with the reward, and what hole you need to fill in your loadout, than the level of difficulty. I don't know if there's any safe money increase for harder missions, but that potential risk/reward never drove my selection--always go easier unless you really need a specific type of reward. I can appreciate that the same number of guards in a level can be more or less challenging depending on their placement.
3) I assume when you say that the stages are samey and generic, you're referring to the aesthetic design. It's true, these do not feel like real offices. However, the PCG really does make each level feel unique, such that even after a while you can't make assumptions about a level's layout.

 

[duckroll]

Yeah I haven't given up on the game, I'm just disappointed in the level generation. It's the one thing holding the game down. While it makes the game more replayable for people who don't want to see the "same stages" each time they play, it comes at the expense of none of them being particularly memorable or unique so far. A way better design philosophy would have been to design 100+ maps and randomize which ones become available in a given game run. More work? Sure, but better end result too.

The rest of the game is pretty neat though.

 

[Weizor]

By "perfectly", I don't necessarily mean "ghost", just that you can complete the objective and collect all safes without losing a party member. Sometimes knockouts are necessary, and situations like that do require melee overwatch on the door.

I'm not talking about ghosting either. My point is that during the first few turns you don't have enough AP to make informed choices and quite often you'll be forced to make a guess based on very limited information. This is particularly obvious on expert plus where most of your rewinds will be used on turn one and two.

 

[Miker]

I just had the craziest mission. It was on expert, on a rescue mission against the drone-heavy faction. One of my guys got shot 'cause of some stupid reason, I used my only rewind, then he got shot again because I didn't think about a drone in another room shooting him through an open doorway - both times my fault.

Anyway, I go ahead and continue the mission and rescue the agent, my fourth. At that point, I could've just left with three agents, the same number I came in with, but I decided to try and rescue my dead Dr. Xu. I put parasite (breaks 1 firewall per turn) on the two armed drones, both at firewall 3, then sneaked back in towards my dying agent. One of the drones caught my agents during its own turn, and went into overwatch, but then once it switched to my turn, the parasite broke through its last firewall and I made it walk away. Just like that.

From there, I had my 2 strength (faster dragging) character knock out a guard, which triggered his +6 AP after KO, and he ran in and dragged Dr. Xu's ass back to the elevator in just three turns. I never thought I'd actually be able to rescue anyone by dragging them back to the elevator, but it actually happened. Crazy.

 

[Remachinate]

I'm not talking about ghosting either. My point is that during the first few turns you don't have enough AP to make informed choices and quite often you'll be forced to make a guess based on very limited information. This is particularly obvious on expert plus where most of your rewinds will be used on turn one and two.

Shrug, I beat expert plus with no rewinds, so it is doable. So long as you don't get greedy and have ambush coverage for every door you can't fully scout, you should be in good shape, even in the early turns.