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Irans presidential advisor: all of the Middle East is part of the Iranian Empire "
- Thread starter DXB-KNIGHT
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DXB-KNIGHT
Member
You don't know Iran, the last time Iran was modern and progressive was 1978. The theocracies there turned it back. Theocracies in general whether democratic or not are the worst
jimbobsmells
Member
Slightly harsh statement, compared to Saudi Arabia I totally agree with him. And being half Iranian I do know Iran.
Though I agree completely that Theocracies are terrible and have ruined that country. I'm never going within a hundred leagues of Iran until they kick out those fucking mullahs.
Are you trying to say it was progressive when the Shah was ruling and the US was rigging elections so their puppet could imprison and kill intelligentsia and communists?
It's that meddling which led to the Iranian revolution in the first place
I would not be surprised if, in a decade, Iran is one of the US' closest allies in the Middle East. They have very similar interests, and as the world begins its shift away from oil, they're a more valuable friend to have.
I could even imagine Israel becoming closer to Iran if they stop their Anti-Semitism. Their governments could bond over a shared hatred for Sunni Arabs.
I could even imagine Israel becoming closer to Iran if they stop their Anti-Semitism. Their governments could bond over a shared hatred for Sunni Arabs.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Saudi is a different story they are a Monarchy,
While Iran is a theocracy, the real leader of the country has a Religious rank while in Saudi Arabia the king doesn't hold any Religious weight what so ever.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Just compare Iran now with Yester Iran, it's weight completely shifted. If Iran is such modern and Progressive why Iranian are migrating to other places for work and fortune? The only people who have power and wealth in Iran are religious men
The Shah was operating a secret police state more pervasive and brutal than anything this side of the Iron Curtain. Did you think that some day in '78 the priests somehow magically toppled the regime and turned Iran into a theocracy? The support for the uprising was much broader. And the West had enough time to come to good terms with Iran before their obstinate support of the old despised regime caused things to come to a head.
jimbobsmells
Member
Saudi is not a different story. The fact they are a monarchy means nothing. Religious weight of the guy at the top is immaterial if your women still can't drive, can't vote, can't even leave the house without a male chaperone. While in Iran women can and are members of parliament.
Both are extremely backward. One just more than the other.
Stereogatari
Banned
Ideally you'd think that since it would be Turkish territory and part of the country that we now know as Turkey, that it would literally be like Turkey. But it would probably be more complicated than that, perhaps with a Arab version of the PKK complicating matters.
To be honest I feel that in reality Turks and Iranians are "meh" towards each other. The Sunni VS Shia thing is just as much an Arab VS Persian thing as it is a religious divide.
Turks and Iranians are culturally closer than either are to Arabs, so even though Turks and Arabs are mostly Sunni, Turks and Persians are more in common due to historical ties.
Firstly Turkic/Iranian tribes lived around the same geographical area since antiquity. Also Turkic tribes ruled Iran for nearly a 1000 years cumulatively, and Turks became Muslim by way of the Persians so became Persianised in addition to religious conversion. A lot of idiosyncrasies in Turkish culture are due to Classical Persian influence. Indeed some scholars call the Ottoman Empire a Persian Empire (especially in its early to middle years where Persian was the preferred court language).
Mister0079
Member
You're talking from your ass. Iranians are Anti-Arab at best.
Look how the shia government treated the sunni in Iraq! Maliki and the militias abused and killed many sunni leading to the support for the uprising and the initial burst of support for ISIS.
Shia militia invading sunni Iraq under the control of Iran is going to cause more harm than good, ISIS maybe driven out but no long term peace or stability will be achieved.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
What a great idea. Every country can reestablish their Empires!
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I also think that the Iranian-Arab dichotomy is rather overstated and is more properly understood as a Sunni-Shia one. Modern Iran already contains parts of medieval Iraq (Khuzestan) and corresponding Arab populations, but they're largely Shia and tolerated because of it. It's also true that the parts of Iraq which are currently Shia were part of the Farsi cultural and political sphere for centuries - and this is largely the reason they became Shia to begin with.
Iran wanting to influence these regions is not unusual or even necessarily detrimental, given Iran is infinitely more stable than Iraq and relatively (big stress on the word relatively) progressive by the standards of the region.
Iran wanting to influence these regions is not unusual or even necessarily detrimental, given Iran is infinitely more stable than Iraq and relatively (big stress on the word relatively) progressive by the standards of the region.
And still more shia / Iranian influence will only continue to be a destabilising effect upon the sunni populace in Iraq.
After what we have seen happen already due to shia secterian governance I would say it is quite detrimental.
Stereogatari
Banned
Iran is not progressive by standards of Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel, I think the standards of the region are higher than you're giving credit for.
MisterFalcon
Member
MonsterHunter
Member
Wahabis and Ottomans, nice
Next they will be building a wall to keep out the Mongolians.
Kenshin001
Member
How is Iran modern and progressive? I really see little distinction between all of them. They are all backwards thinking societies prone to intolerance and barbarity. Only recently an Iranian blogger was given the death sentence for Facebook posts insulting Mohammad.
Stereogatari
Banned
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
These are all true, and I'd also throw in Kuwait to that group. However, Turkey, Israel and Lebanon have very little influence on the other countries in the region for historical reasons, and Jordan and Kuwait are hardly power players. From the Egypt-Iran-Saudi power triangle, Iran is the least bad.
Stereogatari
Banned
True. In terms of regional influence those are the three vying for it. Lebanon isn't that powerful relatively and Israel is strong but small and religiously different so aren't interested in that.
Turkey is the one heavyweight that could compete with the power triangle, but they don't seem as invested in any pan-Islamic influence and are more invested in pan-Turkism with a dash of specifically Turco-Islamism.
I don't know much about Egypt's place in the "power triangle", I always saw it as Iran VS Saudi. All I know of Egypt's influence is that it their people spread the Arab Spring to the rest of the Arab World in a big way and they are the largest Arab country and are historically seen as the centre of Sunni Islam.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Egypt has really spent the last two decades slowly drifting out of the big leagues and adopting a more isolationist position. Their tanking economy put them into a supplicant position with respect to Saudi Arabia, and the historically Egypt-aligned minors Syria, Palestine and Yemen have drifted away or are suffering from too much political instability to be useful. However, I wouldn't rule Egypt out. They are the largest Middle Eastern state and the historical hegemony, it seems unlikely they'll remain in a slump forever.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
But unlike Putin, Iran actually knows how to exert their strength without getting penalized for it.
As shitty as this could be, the world wants ISIS destroyed. Countries like Iran are expected to do that since they are closest. We can complain all we want if they decide to not leave the territories they liberated but it's our fault for not creating a UN army to deal with ISIS in the first place.
Polls changed 2 weeks ago bro. The majority of Americans equally across political ideologies wants our government to step in and crush ISIS now.
Mister0079
Member
that's a real credible website you got there, liger05 levels of credibility
Agent Gibbs
Member
The beginning of the super states has began! Soon the Chinese Empire will Annex Canada and war will ensue
best get digging my Vault
best get digging my Vault
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
That's not a news website, it's an Arabic institute in Iranian affairs, so most of their articles are studies.
Persia existed as an empire. The Islamic Republic of Iran does not exist as a far reaching empire but a poor theocracy that is struggling with sanctions.
Does Mongolia get its land back from China, Russia and other Eurasian countries? Does India get to reclaim Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal and Pakistan?
He's primarily speaking about Shia Islam here. While Saddam and the Baath'ist were in power they were enemies of Iran, just like Saudi Arabia is right now, because they are Sunni. Now the Shia influence of Iran reaches Iraq, Lebanon, parts of Syria etc.
Does Mongolia get its land back from China, Russia and other Eurasian countries? Does India get to reclaim Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal and Pakistan?
He's primarily speaking about Shia Islam here. While Saddam and the Baath'ist were in power they were enemies of Iran, just like Saudi Arabia is right now, because they are Sunni. Now the Shia influence of Iran reaches Iraq, Lebanon, parts of Syria etc.
Veritigo_X
Member
Is the world the wild west in terms of land grabs right now? If so, I want in. I always wanted my own kingdom. Where can I take over some land that no one would care about? I mean I understand I'll probably get hit with sanctions, but whatever. I just don't want to get bombed in my palace.
Pretty suspect "sources". Either way, are we going to take every word that any government official takes at face value? Nationalists tend to say dumb things. As far as anyone is concerned, it's not part of official Iranian policy to "revive the empire".
DXB-KNIGHT is pretty much the anti-Iran liger05-light
DXB-KNIGHT is pretty much the anti-Iran liger05-light
MisterFalcon
Member
The biggest war in the Middle East after WW1 was the Iraq-Iran war over a border that had existed since Zand dynasty of the 18th century.
Stereogatari
Banned
Something like that already exists, but it's based on ethnic lines. There is the Arab League full of Arab countries and the International Organization of Turkic Culture full of the Turkic countries.
There's also the The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation which all Muslim majority countries are members of.
I totally forgot about the Arab League. I honestly don't even know what they do.
Stereogatari
Banned
They are UN-like loose organisation compared with the solidity of the EU.
Something like the EU isn't going to happen until religion and nationalism die down in the Middle East. Europe learned that the hard way...
Regardless, Iraq as a "nation" was fucked from the start. Three differing factions in one place.
This will probably happen if the US somehow lost its military and political hegemony.
In a world sans America, Iran quite likely could annex some of its neighbors and Russia absolutely could. China, becoming the world's dominant trade nation, would easily exert its influence across Asia and Africa.
A world like that, where power is more equally distributed, may be more ethical on paper but would lead to a great deal of violence and genocide that would not have occurred otherwise.
The Ottomans were partly the reason why Iran is a majority Shia country today. Being stuck between two Turkic powers and wanting to differentiate themselves, made the Safavid dynasty turn to Shia Islam during the 16th century. Prior to that, Persia was perhaps the most important region for Sunni Islamic thought and teaching. So Turkic/Persian rivalry caused the rise of Twelver Islam and the split of Persia from the Sunni world.
Egypt is the cultural heartbeat of the Arab world. We may not project power the way we did during the Nasser years, but our music and our movies are the most popular across the Arab world.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
I'm not anti Iran being half Iranian but I'm anti theocracy in general.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I think there are more half Iranians here than full, haha.
I'm half as well
I'm half as well
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