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[Deleted member 81567]

 

[Alx]

I suppose that no country can be considered a 100% safe investment today, considering the current situation, national debts etc.
But all those declarations scream FUD to me. Most of the crumbling today is due to lack of confidence rather than real economic difficulties (well the difficulties are real, but the market goes up and down in reaction to announcements rather than real status), and it looks like many people do their best to feed it and raise panic.

Real economists/journalists should focus on "what shall we do to make things better", not "oh my god, what will happen if indicator X goes down !"

 

[TacticalFox88]

it could happen.

 

[Kurtofan]

Isn't stupid riots in France something of a monthly occurrence?

No.

 

[Kafel]

We're fine, thx.

Spoiler

leave us alone :' (

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

It's not capitalism that's the problem. It's socialist "entitlements" that are causing the problem. (The US hasn't been a capitalist country since the New Deal, before that we had a number of "Progressive" reforms that neutered capitalism, and France even more so...)

As Margaret Thatcher said, the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. And that's exactly what's happened. We've been paying stuff with basically a credit card. But not paying off the balance, just the interest

Indeed, the real problem is that we've been mixing the two, as sort of a "Third way" corporatism, with government and big business working together in hand. That gets the worse aspects of both systems.

The bailouts for instance. Under capitalism, they never would have happened. The companies would go bankrupt. Instead, taxpayer money went to prop them up. But that's exactly the wrong way to do things - you are rewarding failure, and taking money from the people who need it (the taxpayers).

Hey quit trying to push your political beliefs on to others. Entitlements are not the problem. Let's look at the countries that have a AAA rating:

Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom

What do all these countries have in common: universal healthcare. And they pay half the of what the United States does too. Your just using the downgrade to push your agenda. The real reason the US lost its rating is because our political system has failed. Today we fight each other over what use to be routine operations of our government. This all because of one party refusing to work with the other. I'll let you guess which one.

 

[Frankfurter]

France's debt-to-GDP ratio is expected to hit nearly 86% by the end of 2011, according to S&P. By comparison, the U.S.'s ratio is forecast to be 74%. When euro-zone countries' debt has been downgraded in recent history, their sky-high debt-to-GDP ratios are often cited.

Apples and oranges again... the % number they are using for France is all public debt. That ratio is forecast to be about 100-105% for the US at the end of 2011.


The market is crazy atm imo. France have a AAA rating, the highest possible, from S&P, Moodys and Fitch, + a stable outlook. A stable outlook means there is no downgrade imminent, per definition. Yet there are claims that France could soon lose its rating.
This would actually be pretty funny if rumors and speculations like this (or the current US downgrade) wouldn't lead to REAL effects. But they do.

 

[FreeMufasa]

Thought this was going to be about riots.

 

[Something Wicked]

Hey quit trying to push your political beliefs on to others. Entitlements are not the problem. Let's look at the countries that have a AAA rating:

Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom

What do all these countries have in common: universal healthcare. And they pay half the of what the United States does too. Your just using the downgrade to push your agenda. The real reason the US lost its rating is because our political system has failed. Today we fight each other over what use to be routine operations of our government. This all because of one party refusing to work with the other. I'll let you guess which one.

Actually, he's right and you're wrong, Standard and Poor's is specifically saying that France needs to reform its entitlement programs or it's credit rating will likely be downgraded in the near future:

Sarkozy has committed to cutting the budget shortfall to 5.7 percent of output this year, 4.6 percent next year and 3 percent in 2013. The Socialist Party’s two leading candidates for next year’s presidential election have also pledged to reach the 3 percent deficit target in 2013.
“If French authorities do not follow through with their reform of the pension system, make additional changes to the social-security system and consolidate the current budgetary position in the face of rising spending pressure on health care and pensions, Standard & Poor’s will unlikely maintain its AAA rating,” S&P said in a June 10 report.

The market is crazy atm imo. France have a AAA rating, the highest possible, from S&P, Moodys and Fitch, + a stable outlook. A stable outlook means there is no downgrade imminent, per definition. Yet there are claims that France could soon lose its rating.
This would actually be pretty funny if rumors and speculations like this (or the current US downgrade) wouldn't lead to REAL effects. But they do.

It's the high base points of the credit default swaps for France, which are currently higher than Mexico and Thailand and have been quickly rising in recent weeks. Many investors believe France will have significant problems for future budgets.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Actually, he's right and you're wrong, Standard and Poor's is specifically saying that France needs to reform its entitlement programs or it's credit rating will likely be downgraded in the near future:






It's the high base points of the credit default swaps for France, which are currently higher than Mexico and Thailand and have been quickly rising in recent weeks. Many investors believe France will have significant problems for future budgets.

Take a look at who I quoted and what we are discussing: the United States downgrade not France. The article you quote sites a common problem for all modern countries in the growth of healthcare spending. It still fails to mention that France pays half of what America does. Also, traders mention France has no control over its monetary supply as another reason for a possible downgrade. The US was downgraded not for its entitlements, but because the political system broke down.