James Scott
Banned
Their games target 60fps. In the example of Bayonetta 2, it actually looks great for the platform and it runs pretty well.
Pokemon X/Y struggled to hit 30
Is gamefreak the least competent developer for Nintendo?
- Thread starter Clefargle
- Start date
Pokemon X/Y struggled to hit 30
Okay, and...? That's all you have to say?
Graphically speaking their games are not the best. They were never the best. R/B/Y had some really ugly sprites and the games were full of bugs. And they are still struggling with 3D graphics in 2017. It's incredible that the 3DS can run games like Sm4sh and resident evil revelations just fine but the battles and some animations on S/M are so choppy.
Also I don't think we can give the blame to them for the business model they follow (you know game/game with added content/remake pattern) which is clearly something not decided by them, or at least not only by them.
Also I don't think we can give the blame to them for the business model they follow (you know game/game with added content/remake pattern) which is clearly something not decided by them, or at least not only by them.
Yes. I wasn't claiming that they were less competent than GF. I already agree with the OP. Still, all their games fail to reach stable 60, with games like W101 having atrocious slowdown. And none of their games are particularly beautiful, mostly due to the environments.
I don't know about incompetent but they could certainly do with better level design :/
I feel GenVII is going backward from GenVI as far as general level design goes (as in routes, dungeons, etc).
For the general technical achievement, I'd say they have so many moving parts they have to deal with it's great they managed to make 3D games with backgrounds on such a small team.
The QA teams are probably the one team I have the highest respect for.
With so many possibilities, it's a goddamn miracle it's not riddled with game breaking bugs left and right.
Heck Pokemon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow were your regular JRPG as far as scope goes (even for OGB). A technical feat to manage such a large area without loading zones, giving the impression of a large openworld in your pocket. Seriously it's an impressive feat on a machine with such clear limitations.
The issue is that with each iterations the scope gets bigger and bigger (because on top of that they managed to foster a competitive scene that they try to balance around).
Sure the game ain't pushing a million polygons in 3D while leaving room for a regular 3DS to run the rest of the OS fairly easily but it's still impressive what they managed to do.
I know I'm happy with USUM being 3DS bound but they really need to go beyond the 3DS, they can't even manage to more than 1 area without loading screens now (XYORAS were already not that good in that area).
Alola is kinda fitting with the restrictions they have on 3DS hardware but they really need to expand and go Switch or something because they're hindering themselves bigtime now.
I feel GenVII is going backward from GenVI as far as general level design goes (as in routes, dungeons, etc).
For the general technical achievement, I'd say they have so many moving parts they have to deal with it's great they managed to make 3D games with backgrounds on such a small team.
The QA teams are probably the one team I have the highest respect for.
With so many possibilities, it's a goddamn miracle it's not riddled with game breaking bugs left and right.
Heck Pokemon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow were your regular JRPG as far as scope goes (even for OGB). A technical feat to manage such a large area without loading zones, giving the impression of a large openworld in your pocket. Seriously it's an impressive feat on a machine with such clear limitations.
The issue is that with each iterations the scope gets bigger and bigger (because on top of that they managed to foster a competitive scene that they try to balance around).
Sure the game ain't pushing a million polygons in 3D while leaving room for a regular 3DS to run the rest of the OS fairly easily but it's still impressive what they managed to do.
I know I'm happy with USUM being 3DS bound but they really need to go beyond the 3DS, they can't even manage to more than 1 area without loading screens now (XYORAS were already not that good in that area).
Alola is kinda fitting with the restrictions they have on 3DS hardware but they really need to expand and go Switch or something because they're hindering themselves bigtime now.
xochipiltontli
Member
Based on what people tend to joke about, I'd say Arzest is Nintendo's least competent developer.
Game Freak makes okay games, but I'd say that this is largely because they have a solid base on which to build their games on. When it comes to building on that base, they've stepped into a cycle where they don't actively try to make a better game than their last. Each generation introduces a couple of new mechanics that are eventually forgotten about when the next generation comes around; Triple/rotation/sky/inverse battles have been thrown away, Pokemon don't follow you, swarms don't exist anymore, hordes are gone, mega evolution seems to have been abandoned, contests came back and are now gone, secret bases as well, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see z-moves fade away in the future. The games seem to be designed in a way where a new feature or two is introduced for that new pull factor at the expense of existing features which are brushed under the rug. Things that remain are sometimes done worse than in past games (Sun and Moon's menu system is a disgrace compared to X/Y's for example, while SOS'ing for hidden abilities is awful). They did a great thing by making HG/SS a complete improvement over the originals, with everything from Crystal included and much more, yet ORAS didn't even include Emerald's base content and featured rather anemic added content.
Additionally, I think their map design, story pacing, and complexity of the world (time related events, important NPCs, specialized areas) have all gotten worse over time. You would think that they'd have the money to find good talent to make a decent story when they decide to shove in cutscenes every 5 minutes like in S/M. They also haven't actually tried to push the systems they're on for a while now, which is kind of lame since they make the main games for one of the largest video game franchises on Earth.
I kind of wish Pokemon didn't experience the massive resurgence it did last year. Maybe it would have pushed TPC/GameFreak to actually put some time, money and effort into their titles (or maybe it would have resulted in more mobile games, who knows).
Game Freak makes okay games, but I'd say that this is largely because they have a solid base on which to build their games on. When it comes to building on that base, they've stepped into a cycle where they don't actively try to make a better game than their last. Each generation introduces a couple of new mechanics that are eventually forgotten about when the next generation comes around; Triple/rotation/sky/inverse battles have been thrown away, Pokemon don't follow you, swarms don't exist anymore, hordes are gone, mega evolution seems to have been abandoned, contests came back and are now gone, secret bases as well, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see z-moves fade away in the future. The games seem to be designed in a way where a new feature or two is introduced for that new pull factor at the expense of existing features which are brushed under the rug. Things that remain are sometimes done worse than in past games (Sun and Moon's menu system is a disgrace compared to X/Y's for example, while SOS'ing for hidden abilities is awful). They did a great thing by making HG/SS a complete improvement over the originals, with everything from Crystal included and much more, yet ORAS didn't even include Emerald's base content and featured rather anemic added content.
Additionally, I think their map design, story pacing, and complexity of the world (time related events, important NPCs, specialized areas) have all gotten worse over time. You would think that they'd have the money to find good talent to make a decent story when they decide to shove in cutscenes every 5 minutes like in S/M. They also haven't actually tried to push the systems they're on for a while now, which is kind of lame since they make the main games for one of the largest video game franchises on Earth.
I kind of wish Pokemon didn't experience the massive resurgence it did last year. Maybe it would have pushed TPC/GameFreak to actually put some time, money and effort into their titles (or maybe it would have resulted in more mobile games, who knows).
Maybe Monolith Soft will have to lend a hand.
My issues aren't technical. It's their design philosophy.
Oh hey, fun fact. It's the same people who made Splatoon.
Well that explains it then. I have multiple serious issues with that game too.
brianmcdoogle
Member
I don't know if I would use the word competent since that can be quite loaded, but I think the gulf between importance and capital of a property to actual output is striking, and it reminds me similarly to Sonic games where the property is so valuable yet the games turned out are garbage (Sonic games, that is). I think Game Freak makes ok to really good Pokemon games, but considering how valuable Pokemon is, I'd expect a hell of a lot more from them.
Edit: I'd also like to use this thread to issue my very controversial opinion that there are now way too many Pokemon, and that they need to do a culling and get rid of a bunch. Having almost a 1000 Pokemon, most of them not that good to begin with, kind of bogs down newer games.
Edit: I'd also like to use this thread to issue my very controversial opinion that there are now way too many Pokemon, and that they need to do a culling and get rid of a bunch. Having almost a 1000 Pokemon, most of them not that good to begin with, kind of bogs down newer games.
lmao holy shit
Neoleo2143
Member
In terms of character design, Gamefreak is probably one of the best in the industry, certainly one of my favorites because the designers express inspiration in so many ways, it's an absolute joy to behold to see how they interpret everything from exotic animals to everyday objects. They just have issues translating the amazing art at times though, as well as the Anime, does nowadays (which right now is amazing). Though the cutscenes in Sun and Moon show that they're getting much better at that and the personality given to each mon through Pokemon Refresh and Amie is still decently impressive.
They're also quite conservative in structure. By and large Pokemon's release structure has not changed for almost the entire series though features have come and gone.
Personally, I'd like some more QoL again.
Gameplay wise, the pokemon games have always been breezy adventures for me. The RPGs that I can relax to and not stress out outside the incredible but still has a high barrier to entry multiplayer. This only improves with 3rd version of the games which polish up rough edges in the 1st entries and tighten up the pacing while also adding more interesting content so that they appeal to me even more.
They're also quite conservative in structure. By and large Pokemon's release structure has not changed for almost the entire series though features have come and gone.
Personally, I'd like some more QoL again.
Gameplay wise, the pokemon games have always been breezy adventures for me. The RPGs that I can relax to and not stress out outside the incredible but still has a high barrier to entry multiplayer. This only improves with 3rd version of the games which polish up rough edges in the 1st entries and tighten up the pacing while also adding more interesting content so that they appeal to me even more.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Yes, Gamefreak is trash.
Unfortunately the Pokemon IP and this mainline Pokemon series is so popular to a degree where quality won't even matter in so far that they'll sell many millions and make mad profit either way.
Unfortunately the Pokemon IP and this mainline Pokemon series is so popular to a degree where quality won't even matter in so far that they'll sell many millions and make mad profit either way.
OK. Perhaps I should have clarified in the context of OP. I don't think Game freak is an incompetent developer at all, just that they have differing priorities for the series than just upping the graphical FX.
I would never lump the two of these together. Bethesda might get a lot of flak for weird bugs, but the complexity of what they deliver is on another level. Pokémon games are cookie cutter JRPGs that push no technical boundaries.
If they intend to go full HD for the big screen, they'll probably have to go full Breath of the wild on us with a living breathing world with intricate systems.
The problem they have now is that they can't follow the normal progression path like before so the expectations aren't the same too.
Let's be frank, a game like Pokemon Diamond/Pearl/Platinium at the peak of the ps1 on n64 or similar hardware would have blown anyone off regardless of anyone complaining about the game's limitation.
3DS is largely similar in the games it provides to GC/Wii (if you can make a parallel between hw lines) and they'll have to jump 2 hw gens for the next iteration.
Look at the 3D models in XYORAS or even SM/USUM, they're really good but they still won't cut it on the big screen with that texture work (of course they have high fidelity models of all of them but still).
Looking at interviews (like Iwara Asks) and other promo material, they really try to take into account player expectations into their products (which in a roundabout way lead them to ditch postgame because a significant part of the base vocally made it known they didn't care about it, I agree with yall let's hang them).
I'm ready for a crow plate but I think they're going to prepare something really special to bring the main series to the bigger screen AND it's going to take fucking forever.
Right, whatever it is, I wouldn't expect it before 2019 to kick off Gen VIII.
Leafhopper
Banned
I didn't expect Gen 6 or 7 to start when it did either so who knows.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
been avoiding this thread since it's definitely cancerous but just wanna correct
no, they're full 100% independent, they did buy a mobile company though
you're probably thinking of TPCi
people only think of recent titles for independent works, but they've done lots of stuff for others since early days, apparently even up to SNES era for Sony according to wiki
no, they're full 100% independent, they did buy a mobile company though
you're probably thinking of TPCi
people only think of recent titles for independent works, but they've done lots of stuff for others since early days, apparently even up to SNES era for Sony according to wiki
Sometimes I wonder what kind of sports games you guys are playing and also if yall are aware of the amount of work put into the yearly iterations of stuffs like Fifa, Madden or PES...
e: and the comparison with Capcom is so funny when you realize there are less than 110 people working at GFreak.
and the comparison to a company like Blizzard with more than 4000 employees...
sssstententen
Member
These threads will always be filled with dev apologists saying that they're entitled to do whatever and however they like with their properties. And that is absolutely correct, but I personally think they stand with the Monster Hunter team over at Capcom as being what must be one of the highest earning but laziest devs.
They could be using the incredible resources to try to push the medium forward and instead, they churn out reskinned remakes, low effort upgrades, and boringly formulaic games every few years and rake in the cash. Sure, that's business, high profit, low cost. I got that. But I can dislike it as a fan, and a consumer.
I'd much rather support devs like CDPR, From Software, Blizzard, Kojima, and indies like Grinding Gear Games or Bluehole, who clearly instantly turn around and put their newfound growth right back into making the gameplay, and consumer experience, more refined and fresh. And that's not even to say that these devs are infallible either. But at least I see the consistent growth/experimentation that warrants my continued support.
They could be using the incredible resources to try to push the medium forward and instead, they churn out reskinned remakes, low effort upgrades, and boringly formulaic games every few years and rake in the cash. Sure, that's business, high profit, low cost. I got that. But I can dislike it as a fan, and a consumer.
I'd much rather support devs like CDPR, From Software, Blizzard, Kojima, and indies like Grinding Gear Games or Bluehole, who clearly instantly turn around and put their newfound growth right back into making the gameplay, and consumer experience, more refined and fresh. And that's not even to say that these devs are infallible either. But at least I see the consistent growth/experimentation that warrants my continued support.
Sammy Samusu
Member
szdkjfhsdjkfhdjkg :lol
Monster Hunter is not only one of the best looking 3DS games EVER but also packed with content and online play. It's basically a console game with high production costs and refined action gameplay on the fucking 3DS and its shitty graphics card and poor ass 240p resolution. Capcom milked the 3DS more than Nintendo itself (Smash might rival).
Capcom did wonders with Monster Hunter on the 3DS. It's offensive to say they are lazy. They did all they could and BEYOND.
Renegade Frost
Banned
Your last point is full of inane nonsense. I dont agree.
I'd say they need to take longer with their games and go back to being new game every 2 years.or 3 years
DarkConfidant
Member
Tose? Whoever made the Mario Sports Superstars game? They have way worse.
Also Gamefreak is more like 2nd party.
Also Gamefreak is more like 2nd party.
SolidChamp
Banned
Renegade Frost
Banned
I dont wanna backseat mod, but holy shit that requires a BANNED BISH gif!
Is there a way to report posts from a locked thread? Because this is gonna become a locked thread
This I will say, level design from the 3rd and 4th gens are much better than the level design in the 6th and 7th gen for sure. They made it to easy to navigate,(trying to appeal to children)
Festival plaza is great and centralized I use it alot, PSS is confusing tbh.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Coming into this thread was a bad idea..
I don't know about the 3rd, ORAS was pretty similar to RS as far as map design goes and it's pretty underwhelming when put it in the 3D engine.
Easy to navigate wouldn't be a problem if there was some kind of point to the whole exploration of the places.
SM seemed a bit aimless in its design, never really leading you anywhere and when you reach a deadend for no reason you never get that there was a reason to get there in the 1st place.
The gameworld being so segmented doesn't help but probably more to do with puny 3DS hw rather than the game design.
Plaza is a good idea but not for 3DS, it takes forever to load and it might as well be another game altogether tacked on for no reason :/
tenderbrew
Member
Joke thread?
Renegade Frost
Banned
They've been making the games more linear since gen 5 but at least gen 5 was still fun. The game was mostly driven by the trials so you went to places to do trials/find pokemon. thats all. I spent the whole game ev training multiple pokemon all the way up to the end of the campaign and then I put the game down for a bit. I hated Gen 6, but Gen 7 is really fun imo.
The way they design the games now, you either fight trainers or run through grass. its clearly segmented on the map. In R/S they through you in the thick of it. I'd run from pokemon majority of the time in the old games because I got too busy battling the trainers and trying to finish the campaign.
The plaza is genuinely fun to use
I like it more than sinnohs underground and the weird parrallel universes in Black and White lol. PSS is kind of confusing to navigate after not playing X and Y for so long.. PSS is also pretty bad for the framerate I think.
I mean people honestly post stuff like this http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=239361414&postcount=3162
Gaf needs a bright red REPORT button lol
TW101 hardly ever slows down during important gameplay moments.
And that game is a phenom of design. It is perfection at work.
lol my og 3DS has a leaking battery and will literally die if its not plugged in and S&M played fine on it. stop trippin'
Moving on though, I would LOVE to see Monolith Soft design an overworld for a pokemon game.
Renegade Frost
Banned
HGSS and every game released in Gen 5 is better than both 1 and 2 lmao.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Hell, Gen 1 and 2 are barebones as far as "good RPGs" go.
Mr. Phellps
Member
Not even you believe that.
There's much more to making a Pokemon game than merely creating towns and placing monsters on routes.
Also, GameFreak created that IP and kept it relevant for twenty years, so yeah, questioning their competency remains silly and a knee jerk reaction to there not being a Pokemon game on a platform unable to provide the install base required by the series' usual sales.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Gen V trashes Gen I and II, it's not even close. And I say this as someone who started with Gold.
I still dont think theyve been able to top content rich games like HG/SS or Platinum and thats really upsetting.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
BW2 came out
I'm very confused by this argument.
I own two 3DSs and I never play them, they collect dust on my shelf. I am willing to bet of the people who own a 3DS, and play it in 2017, and are willing to buy a new version of Sun/Moon, most are also Switch owners or intend to be and would have bought it there. I will not buy a 3DS game as long as I own a Switch.
There are also more people who own a WiiU than people who own a Switch. Would you still defend a choice to release something like Splatoon 2 for WiiU instead of the Switch just because it has to-date sold more, or am I missing some part of this defense?
Chaos2Frozen
Member
They must be doing something right if they have the consistently best selling JRPG series.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
let the irony flow on him
WrenchNinja
Member
You lost this bet
HellofaMouse
Member
Because people care about switch more than they cared about 3ds back when b2w2 was anounced.
Astral Dog
Member
Bayonetta 2 is beautiful for an action game (on Wii U