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Is Hollywood 'whitewashing' Asian roles?
- Thread starter Dram
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Skiptastic
Member
If you want to see Infernal Affairs with Asian leads, may I suggest you simply watch Infernal Affairs?
Being set in Boston, it would be a bit unrealistic to assume an Asian would either be part of the mob acting as a police officer or a police officer infiltrating the mob. In fact, nearly any city in America would be hard to have that scenario.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Many of us do. I'm Korean-American, and I do watch Korean movies, but I don't think that's the point.
In reading this thread, what I don't think a lot of non-Asians are grasping is the distinction between Asian and Asian-American/Asian-Canadian, etc. Being a 1.5-2nd generation is a conundrum; you're American but you're still racially distinct, but you don't feel Korean, Chinese, Indian, or whatever your ethnic race may be. You might not even speak your native language. It's from this where the whole AzN pRiDe BS came out of and while it's silly, there's a reason why it happened.
Saying "just watch Korean movies!" is missing the point. There's a growing Asian population that lives in the U.S. and Canada, and the fact that Hollywood white-washes over this, especially in roles that SHOULD be played by Asian *cough* 21 *cough* is the reason why I at least get incensed.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
I dont think its fair to be mad at Hollywood. They wanna make as much money as possible like any other business, so they give their market what they want.
The question may be, why does the market want it?
The question may be, why does the market want it?
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
I hate that this topic puts me on the same side as Anime-GAF.
PdotMichael
Banned
I don't unterstand the logic, even if all animes characters are white for some reason why is this a good reason for only white hollywood movies?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Guess Keanu Reeves is too 'old news' and with no replacement they've had to make do with straight caucasians.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
lol, that dog looks funny.
As a comic book fan, I would prefer that studios stuck close to a faithful adaptation of my childhood heroes from the source material. But having said that, I am ok with casting different races when the character is not iconic/ supporting cast or being portrayed by someone (imo) is an exceptional thespian.
I want to see how a hypothetical movie with a moderate-sized budget starring familiar Asian-American Youtube faces (Freddie Wong, KevJumba, NigaHiga, HappySlip, etc. might as well throw in TheWineKone for Canadian love) would do on theatrical release. Their video viewings are pretty high, so I'm sure they're pretty "bankable" or at least familiar to a sizable population.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
I am all for more Arden Cho.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Manga characters (well, the main characters anyway) were first created to look 'international', to appeal to all audiences. You could pretty much see the evolution of the manga 'shoujo' eyes, which started from the Tezuka era to now. Big large eyes that followed Disney's aesthetic.
Here's a good read to anyone interested in this subject:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060517194357sh_re_/www.matt-thorn.com/mangagaku/faceoftheother.html
So tldr: the archetypal japanese manga hero often has a mixed aesthetic that doesn't look asian at all. It's pretty hard to get someone who can look like your favourite childhood character when there's only a few in the world that fits that aesthetic description. We're fucked if we're hoping for that to happen.
Oh for Hollywood though? They just want to appeal to the more lucrative audience. So yeah I agree, they're whitewashing the shit out of it.
Here's a good read to anyone interested in this subject:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060517194357sh_re_/www.matt-thorn.com/mangagaku/faceoftheother.html
So tldr: the archetypal japanese manga hero often has a mixed aesthetic that doesn't look asian at all. It's pretty hard to get someone who can look like your favourite childhood character when there's only a few in the world that fits that aesthetic description. We're fucked if we're hoping for that to happen.
Oh for Hollywood though? They just want to appeal to the more lucrative audience. So yeah I agree, they're whitewashing the shit out of it.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Hollywood is pretty much a bastard in that sense. Did you see Jon Stewart's interview with George Lucas? George mentioned that the reason why the film took so long to make is because Hollywood did not want to invest in a big budget all-black movie.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-9-2012/george-lucas
Then again, those movies generally do fail. Hopefully Red Tails will do well enough to change their mindset.
....but then again, George Lucas is directing it.
Frank Jaeger
Member
What? JEBUS! WHAT?
I'm not even gonna talk about Kristen, but WTF is Bonham Carter has to do with Akira? JEBUS CHRIST!
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Reparations for Jar Jar?
alex chilton
Member
On what evidence are people saying that this is what the market wants? There are practically no examples of a hollywood movie with an asian lead role (non martial arts)to cite to reach this conclusion so it's kinda hard to say either way.
IAmtheFMan
Member
No he's not.
TheKaeptain
Banned
That's because...
oh, you did my job for me. I've had Jules Brunet's wiki book marked since yesterday because I knew Last Samurai would come up. Also, Tom Cruise was playing the person that witnessed the Last Samurai die. He, himself, was not the last one.
You'll be happy to know the Akira project is dead.
Again.
It will probably rise up one more time in the future. Shit's resilient.
Since we don't have really have proof that a Asian American lead can't carry a film, is the argument now, "Sorry, young Asian actor, you're shit out of luck. Sorry, director, you can't have a diverse cast. White people look different enough from each other as it is."
Huh.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Sometimes it's not Hollywood's fault, but rather the audience.
Hiroshi and Hirai come from a rarer stock though. 300+ years a go their features are what you would have seen in the noble class.Of course Hollywood is whitewashing asian roles. It's been going on for a long time.
Anyway, Japanese draw their characters in the way they perceive themselves. It just happens to be fairly neutral looking so it can be misconstrued as white or whatever else.
Honestly, most folks see Japanese folks and think a certain type of look, usually something with smaller eyes. Most folks are familiar with Ken Watanabe or Hiroyuki Sanada who looks somewhat like everyone's image of a Japanese person is.
However, there are Japanese folks like Hiroshi Abe or Ken Hirai. Not quite the same as Watanabe or Sanada.
Then of course there's Toshinobu Kubota.
Dacon
Banned
I don't approve of race bending in any case. I still don't like that they went with negro Fury in the Avengers films. Make new badass minority characters. Like Batwing, he's pretty cool.
I'm of mixed race myself, and it does get annoying seeing a lot of white people in films based on or adapted from stories about minorities/foreigners, but changing white characters into blacks/Asians/whatever isn't the answer either.
I'm of mixed race myself, and it does get annoying seeing a lot of white people in films based on or adapted from stories about minorities/foreigners, but changing white characters into blacks/Asians/whatever isn't the answer either.
General assumptions of risk aversion. Is it precisely evidenced? Probably not. However it's more of a "writing's on the wall" thing more than anything else.
Fun fact: a friend who's been working on her novel of 10 years just got a book deal with matching film deal shopping opportunities; it's a story about an Asian female professional's struggles rising through corporate America. One of her film agent's first comments to her was that she should consider turning the protagonist into a white person. She was PISSED.
SciencePilot
Member
Back in the day, filmmakers might yellowface roles instead of whitewash them. Of course, yellowfacing isn't acceptable anymore. But to be honest, I don't see whitewashing as much of an improvement. It's just another excuse not to use Asian actors. And I don't think that's okay.
In fact, whitewashing is even worse than yellowfacing in a sense. Sure, it is offensive to try to make a white person look like an Asian person, as in yellowface. But, I think it's even more offensive just altogether to forget the role was Asian, as in whitewashing.
In fact, whitewashing is even worse than yellowfacing in a sense. Sure, it is offensive to try to make a white person look like an Asian person, as in yellowface. But, I think it's even more offensive just altogether to forget the role was Asian, as in whitewashing.
I guess it's been pointed out before but Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch based Ultimate Nick Fury on Samuel L. Jackson and he later gave his blessing to it. Marvel Studios is basing Avengers partly on the Ultimates run so they went with him. So I don't think race bending applies here. Nick Fury is black in Avengers:EMH to sync with the movie and the second season has him depicted like Sam Jackson. There is no reason there can't be a future Nick Fury feature with him being white.
My main worry with the Sam Jackson casting is that he will come off as himself more and Fury less.
Zoramon089
Banned
No, it's pretty much Hollywood's fault. You can blame it on the audience but a director/studio just needs to take the risk and see how it turns out. You can't just keep using studies and assuming the audiences won't go for it, and use that as justification. It just turns into a never ending cycle until someone breaks out and sees how it goes.
But the bigger is is that studios don't use common sense...or rather, they almost intentionally make it harder on themselves. They need to stop making moves that rely on a race as an excuse to include them. That's the problem. If you want to make a movie and include other races, just make a movie and include other races! Why does it have to be "the story of *race* in *event*?". If you go about it with that approach of course some people are going to have trouble relating...but there are lots of movies where race has no bearing, and they don't even cast big stars as leads, that could have had roles given to minorities but they didn't
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
As I said though, sometimes. I'm not saying Hollywood is free from its faults too. Both the audience and the studio need to have open minds.
Zoramon089
Banned
Yeah but have there been movies that tanked with minority leads, that would have otherwise done better with white leads? I'm sure it's hard to tell what causes a movie to fail but, I'm talking about movies that were received relatively well critically but flopped in the box office
Dacon
Banned
Uh no shit? I don't like Ultimate Nick Fury, that's who I was referring to. Out of the two versions of the character, the black version is big time weaksauce.
Ultimate Nick Fury pretty much IS Samuel L Jackson.
Adam Blade
WWKC
Asians discriminated against in America... is this really news?
Most of us have known about this for a long time.
Most of us have known about this for a long time.
I thought asians were the highest earning group in america even ahead of whites.
Zoe
Member
Bamboo ceiling
Anticitizen One
Banned
Ken Wattanabe is the best actor in hollywood
Batman Begins, Inception, and Last Samurai FTW
Batman Begins, Inception, and Last Samurai FTW
Devolution
Member
Why should someone have to watch foreign cinema as an American because they're under-represented in our films? This thread, christ.
Since we are discussing race and anime too, here are 2 great gems;
MAN YOU TALKIN FUNNY!
Say hi to people in jersey for me
MAN YOU TALKIN FUNNY!
Say hi to people in jersey for me
Not even close. He's a good actor but yeah...
Dreams-Visions
Member
haha, the vicious cycle.
1.) under-fund an all black movie, force the director and screen writer to make "creative changes" that remove all appeal.
2.) "see, these movies don't do well!"
3.) under-fund the next movie.
4.) repeat.
Nobody knows how well or poorly a big-budget all-________ (pick a minority) movie will do because it hasn't even been tried.
The only all-black (or just about) movies I can think of that had a meaningful budget are:
1.) Ray
2.) Malcolm X
3.) The Color Purple
4.) Glory
...and perhaps Coming to America had a respectable budget for the time period, but I don't know. I assume Soul Food also had a respectable budget.
I don't think any of those struggled at the box office or in DVD sales. But if "Hollywood" continues to judge the success of all-__________(fill in the minority) cast movies based on the underfunded and/or poorly-written ones, the vicious cycle will continue.
Well, I generally hate the way Millar writes him.
It's not about tanking. It's about the profit margin. Studios today are also worried about the international market, that's where a good portion of revenue is coming from. A movie like Schlinder's List does great in the US but does even better in the international market. Meanwhile, a movie like Hotel Rwanda does good here but performs less in the international market. The same goes for movies like Ray as well.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
What if they make an adaption of the Martin Luther King story, but make all the main characters white a la 21? They could keep their oppressors white too, or make it black people that are oppressing whites.
Holy shit I just came up with a sweet idea for a film!
Holy shit I just came up with a sweet idea for a film!
You know what the noble class looked like in Japan 300 years ago?
Jamesfrom818
Banned
More like Asian men. Everyone loves Asian women.
Angelus Errare
Banned
lol @ people still being butt hurt over Samuel Jackson being Nick Fury or Idris Elba in Thor.
Dacon
Banned
Yeah, that's so very funny.
Someone already proposed a similarly dumb argument a few pages back and it was already addressed. There's a huge difference between MLK and the students the film 21 was based on. If you honestly cannot tell the difference, please tell me, because I'd rather not waste my time in such a discussion.
Enlighten me.
No, it's basic US history that elementary school students are taught. To say that race in 21's story is anywhere near as important as race is for a story about MLK is just insulting.
Absolutely....and the under representation of Asians in Hollywood is fucking ridiculous.
It's not Will Smith, but I know you're joking anyways.
It's not Will Smith, but I know you're joking anyways.
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