Is KotOR worth playing before KotOR2?

Eusis said:
Is KotOR2 really not that fun to play, or is this a case of disagreeing on what's fun or not (I DID find KotOR1 fun to play)? I still plan to play it though, half because I just enjoy being able to run around in an RPG and half because I did buy it for $10 outside of a Steam sale and don't want that blown off.
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Buy it as a show of support, then read that LP. That's what I did :P

I had a disc copy of KOTOR II which I played a few years back, agot up to Nar Shadda before I gave up from boredom. I DID finish KOTOR 1, which I found easier to play through (easier as in not as dull). Now I own it on Steam as well and have no plans to ever install it, lol.
 
Durante said:
In terms of gameplay systems, it's a slightly more polished and complex KotOR 1. If you enjoyed the first one in that regard you'll enjoy the sequel as well. I had a lot of fun playing it.

You need to get past the first hour or two though.
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As unbalanced it is, I enjoyed effortlessly frying legions of Sith with force lightning as a high level Jedi.
 
Conversely, I got halfway through KotOR 1 before stopping (forever), but played through the entirety of KotOR 2 in just 2 weeks last year. Of course, it's hard to say whether that was because of the gameplay or simply because the story and characters were so much more interesting. I can however say that I never felt like the gameplay was an issue, and I can remember quite a few situations I were I really enjoyed it.

Snuggler said:
As unbalanced it is, I enjoyed effortlessly frying legions of Sith with force lightning as a high level Jedi.
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That would be one of them. Generally, the (Jedi) power progression in the game is immensely satisfying. While individual human opponents are a threat early on, in the late game you can eliminate entire crowds with a wave of the hand.
 
I found KOTOR 2 completely forgettable and dull, while KOTOR glued me to the pc for weeks. But I'm in the minority here
 
Pray For Death said:
I hope you're not being serious. The two games have completely separate stories.
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Nevermind all that pesky dealing with the aftermath of KOTOR 1, the worlds that are destroyed or permanently altered, or even flying around in the Ebon Hawk. Like a child that walks in in the middle of movie, you have no frame of reference, Donny.

Story matters, continuity matters, start at the beginning.
 
It blows my mind that there are people who don't like KOTOR. Different strokes I guess, but it is one of my favorites of all time.

KOTOR 2 is amazing too, but it has the Obsidian caveat that all of their games carry. Story and dialogue are king, but there are too many technical issues to mention. I remember getting it home for the first time and promptly falling through the floor twice and having to restart the game. If you can make it through the jank, KOTOR 2 provides some great moments.
 
Currygan said:
I found KOTOR 2 completely forgettable and dull, while KOTOR glued me to the pc for weeks. But I'm in the minority here
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You may be in the minority but your absolutely correct. I purchased KOTOR 2 the day it came out and it was great for a while but the last third of the game was an absolute unfinished mess. I believe that Lucas Arts pushed Obsidian to get it out the door before the game was complete.
 
KoTOR 1 worth playing? Yes, duh. Despite it being cool to piss on Bioware these days, there's a reason Mass Effect was a highly anticipated series that sold millions and Obsidian is either begging on Kickstarter or making glitchy sloppy seconds on better devs properties. Bioware used to be great, and they so perfectly nailed Star Wars you feel like you're starring in a good prequel movie.

Obsidian's always been shit no matter what Cheetos-dust encrusted Black Isle nostalgics think. Slight fixes to the last part of 2 may solve 2's most glaring issue but ignores its mostly a boring follow up that never really tried to incorporate its predecessor's branches.

Long story short, play 1, you wasted your money on 2 but you can still save your time.
 
Acheron said:
KoTOR 1 worth playing? Yes, duh. Despite it being cool to piss on Bioware these days, there's a reason Mass Effect was a highly anticipated series that sold millions and Obsidian is either begging on Kickstarter or making glitchy sloppy seconds on better devs properties. Bioware used to be great, and they so perfectly nailed Star Wars you feel like you're starring in a good prequel movie.

Obsidian's always been shit no matter what Cheetos-dust encrusted Black Isle nostalgics think. Slight fixes to the last part of 2 may solve 2's most glaring issue but ignores its mostly a boring follow up that never really tried to incorporate its predecessor's branches.

Long story short, play 1, you wasted your money on 2 but you can still save your time.
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yikes, what a disgusting post

KOTOR 1 is worth playing, though!
 
Acheron said:
KoTOR 1 worth playing? Yes, duh. Despite it being cool to piss on Bioware these days, there's a reason Mass Effect was a highly anticipated series that sold millions and Obsidian is either begging on Kickstarter or making glitchy sloppy seconds on better devs properties.
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Because they pander to the lowest common denominator better? Agreed.
 
Derrick01 said:
Because they pander to the lowest common denominator better? Agreed.
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Tag notwithstanding, it's always the easy way to say you fail because no one understands your genius. It's not the right one though. It's not like RPGs have been doing poorly lately, how is it a bunch of Poles using a license no one ever heard of crush Obsidian? Because Obsidian sucks, has never produced a good game (New Vegas was okay, but just kind of samey) and their excuses for the glitches are unending regardless of what publisher, property or release date they have.
 
Seda said:
found it

http://i.minus.com/i5T38bPDUgJnE.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iEJl2HgSnqnZd.jpg
iK2ZCvQooW6KP.jpg
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This one is particularly chilling.

Picked up KOTOR 1 on Steam during the Summer sale. Played through it for the 5th time.

Picked up KOTOR 2 on Steam this Christmas sale. Going to play through it for the 3rd time.

Excellent games.
 
Acheron said:
Tag notwithstanding, it's always the easy way to say you fail because no one understands your genius. It's not the right one though. It's not like RPGs have been doing poorly lately, how is it a bunch of Poles using a license no one ever heard of crush Obsidian? Because Obsidian sucks, has never produced a good game (New Vegas was okay, but just kind of samey) and their excuses for the glitches are unending regardless of what publisher, property or release date they have.
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There's so much wrong here I don't even know where to start. Let's number it.

1) CD Projekt RED didn't "crush" Obsidian in any aspect I can think of. They both crush their competition in many though. Even if they did, how would them being "a bunch of Poles" inhibit them from doing so?

2) Obsidian has exclusively produced good games. KotOR 2's ending was rushed but it was still a far better overall game than KotOR 1. NWN 2 has a slow beginning, but shits all over NWN 1 from a high altitude. NWN2: MotB is easily one of the best RPGs released during this decade. Alpha Protocol introduced a great dialogue system and is one of the most reactive games ever in terms of story. And Dungeon Siege 3 is a fun and polished, if somewhat "safe" and formulaic action RPG. Certainly the best in its franchise though.

3) Dungeon Siege 3 is entirely free of glitches.

HK-47 said:
What if its another Obsidian game?
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Then it's Dungeon Siege 3 and still seems silly. No, the best choice is to play something devoid of story, maybe an arcade-like title.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Buy it as a show of support, then read that LP. That's what I did :P

I had a disc copy of KOTOR II which I played a few years back, agot up to Nar Shadda before I gave up from boredom. I DID finish KOTOR 1, which I found easier to play through (easier as in not as dull). Now I own it on Steam as well and have no plans to ever install it, lol.
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Probably just a divergence in taste then, given I really enjoyed KotOR1 even if there was a long downtime at one point. Though this is about 10 years later (holy fuck) so who knows what can happen.
Speevy said:
I tend to take them with a grain of salt, but this is pretty freaking unanimous.

http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox/556553-star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic/articles.html
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Not everyone will agree on a game being great or not (I'm sure I can dig up something you wouldn't like or at least don't consider AMAZING and show a plethora of 9+ ratings), though I certainly liked it enough.
 
Speevy said:
I tend to take them with a grain of salt, but this is pretty freaking unanimous.

http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox/556553-star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic/articles.html
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Many of those same review outlets are responsible for ME2 being a 96 and goty/"RPG" of the year and other atrocities (like GTA 4). So what's the rules for picking when reviews count and don't?

You always lose whatever argument you're trying to make when the very first move you make is pointing to reviews in possibly the biggest joke of an industry as far as entertainment goes.
 
Yes because its a great game. Though its the game that pushed Bioware to make decisions based on grabbing casual players.
 
Derrick01 said:
Many of those same review outlets are responsible for ME2 being a 96 and goty/"RPG" of the year and other atrocities (like GTA 4). So what's the rules for picking when reviews count and don't?
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The only real point I'm trying to make is that your opinion is an outlier...

You always lose whatever argument you're trying to make when the very first move you make is pointing to reviews in possibly the biggest joke of an industry as far as entertainment goes.
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Ah, beaten again by the old "Prove to me why this game doesn't suck." argument. Classic.
 
Derrick01 said:
So I've been told. I couldn't find it in the version I played though. It was just another Bioware game with their simplistic, boring writing ability and sub par RPG elements.
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I'll take that in exchange of boring characters and settings, which are fundamental requisites in a RPG. Dialogues may be better but everything else needs to be at least as interesting. Same happened with New Vegas, NW2 and Kotor 2. Obsidian are talented, but overrated. Different strokes I guess
 
Currygan said:
I'll take that in exchange of boring characters and settings, which are fundamental requisites in a RPG. Dialogues may be better but everything else needs to be at least as interesting. Same happened with New Vegas, NW2 and Kotor 2. Obsidian are talented, but overrated. Different strokes I guess
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Boring characters and settings? That's the most silly complaint I've ever seen levelled against Obsidian's games. Seriously, KotOR 2's handling of the Star Wars setting is the most interesting take on it in the entire franchise. Kreia is one of the best female characters in any RPG ever -- and that's certainly not an "outlier" opinion. New Vegas had factions that were multi-faceted and interesting, and even managed to retroactively give some personality to the shootbang abortions introduced in Fallout 3 (e.g. super-mutants). And don't get me started on NWN2:MotB.

I have to stop, this is giving me a headache.
 
Durante said:
Boring characters and settings? That's the most silly complaint I've ever seen levelled against Obsidian's games. Seriously, KotOR 2's handling of the Star Wars setting is the most interesting take on Star Wars in the entire franchise. Kreia is one of the best female characters in any RPG ever -- and that's certainly not an "outlier" opinion. new Vegas had factions that were multi-faceted and interesting, and even managed to retroactively give some personality to the shootbang abortions introduced in Fallout 3 (e.g. super-mutants). And don't get me started on NWN2:MotB.

I have to stop, this is giving me a headache.
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yeah, and the games still bored me to tears because I couldn't care less about any of those characters. Interesting settings? Telos was incredibly dull compared to Taris. The Mojave desert is so uninteresting compared to the DC area in FO3 and so on. I couldn't care less about the supermutants' incredibly interesting backstory either
 
Currygan said:
I'll take that in exchange of boring characters and settings, which are fundamental requisites in a RPG. Dialogues may be better but everything else needs to be at least as interesting. Same happened with New Vegas, NW2 and Kotor 2. Obsidian are talented, but overrated. Different strokes I guess
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I just don't get how people can think high school level writers can write better than people who could probably be successful book writers if they wanted to. Nothing Bioware has ever done has matched the worst Black Isle/Obsidian game from a RPG or writing point of view. Well, except for Dungeon Siege I guess. Every character in kotor is so much simpler than the ones in 2 I just can't imagine how one could think they're more interesting.
 
Currygan said:
I'll take that in exchange of boring characters and settings, which are fundamental requisites in a RPG. Dialogues may be better but everything else needs to be at least as interesting. Same happened with New Vegas, NW2 and Kotor 2. Obsidian are talented, but overrated. Different strokes I guess
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Those characters are way more interesting than nearly anything Bioware has produced. How one could find characters like Atton, Kreia, Atris or the Handmaiden boring is beyond me.
 
For what it's worth, I enjoyed KOTOR 2 as a darker game than KOTOR 1, but it could be drab at times, and of course the ending fell to pieces for previously documented reasons. I might be interested in one day playing the game again with the extended mod or whatever it is, but I have never replayed the game after my initial run on Xbox.

I sympathize with Obsidian. I know all too well the pain of having the schedule put before quality or even completion. But to my feeble brain, to sit here and even consider that KOTOR 2 is a better game than KOTOR 1 when they didn't even finish the dern thing is simply laughable. KOTOR 1 is great. KOTOR 2 could have been.
 
Poohblaster said:
You may be in the minority but your absolutely correct. I purchased KOTOR 2 the day it came out and it was great for a while but the last third of the game was an absolute unfinished mess. I believe that Lucas Arts pushed Obsidian to get it out the door before the game was complete.
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I love them both.
 
Derrick01 said:
I just don't get how people can think high school level writers can write better than people who could probably be successful book writers if they wanted to. Nothing Bioware has ever done has matched the worst Black Isle/Obsidian game from a RPG or writing point of view. Well, except for Dungeon Siege I guess. Every character in kotor is so much simpler than the ones in 2 I just can't imagine how one could think they're more interesting.
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I'll give Obsidian the edge when it comes to actual writing, as I stated in my previous post. What i found better in KOTOR was the whole package: enthralling story, cool characters, nice planets, good gameplay. Its sequel has bad planets, same gameplay, not so interesting new characters and a story I didn't much enjoy as the first. NV has certainly better writing than F3 but the setting just kills it. If writing was the only part of a game then I'd be happy to say Obsidian would be among the best, but it's not, all imho of course
 
Okay, KOTOR 2 crashes whether I run it regularly or in XP SP2 compatibility mode. Two logos, then "KOTOR 2 has stopped working."

Steam doesn't do compatibility mode. That crashes my whole machine.

Any other ideas?
 
Yes you should play the first game before the second.

Nairume said:
No, I'm pretty sure that KotOR2's ending was pretty obviously unfinished and rushed.
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ive said it before and ill say it again:

This bullshit about half a game needs to stop. The whole "THE ENDING IS MISSING" stuff is just flat out lies. If you have finished KotOR 2 you know: who your character is (and you defined them), who the antagonist is and their motivations for doing what they did, the destiny of all your followers except HK-47 and Goto, the state the universe is in, and, the leadup to the sequel, have learned about Revan and Revan-things. Thats a more complete ending than most games released.
 
Even though I really love KOTOR 2's story and characters I have to say the gameplay is just terrible all around.

KOTOR wasn't a very difficult game. But it seemed somewhat balanced at least. It had it's moments were you had to use your brain. KOTOR 2 is just such a mess. It reminds me of Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes... Yes, let's add all kind of ways to make you an overpowered God and let's make the AI even some idiotic that the original game. Brilliant!

water_wendi said:
This bullshit about half a game needs to stop. The whole "THE ENDING IS MISSING" stuff is just flat out lies. If you have finished KotOR 2 you know: who your character is (and you defined them), who the antagonist is and their motivations for doing what they did, the destiny of all your followers except HK-47 and Goto, the state the universe is in, and, the leadup to the sequel, have learned about Revan and Revan-things. Thats a more complete ending than most games released.
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Oh come on. This is such bull shit. This isn't something the internet made up. Anyone who played the game clearly felt the moment when Obsidian ran out of time. The enormous amount of stuff left on the disc is evidence enough that they planned so much more.
 
You gotta play dark side in KOTOR 1. The entire point of the game is to get through enough boring fights to earn another chance to be a dick. Then at the end of the game you get to be the biggest dick in video game history.

Both games have a ton of boring shit but it will be a lot less boring in the first game you play. The planets in KOTOR SUCK compared to the second game so you may as well start with the first game.
 
Speevy said:
Okay, KOTOR 2 crashes whether I run it regularly or in XP SP2 compatibility mode. Two logos, then "KOTOR 2 has stopped working."

Steam doesn't do compatibility mode. That crashes my whole machine.

Any other ideas?
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Hmmm, I wish I could help more. Sometimes running as admin or tracking down patches can help, but if it's the Steam version you should have to do that. Lots of the troubleshooting I can find is for people using Vista or the disc-based version of the game. If you're not using the Steam version this link might have something helpful: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=194296
 
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