Is Peyton Manning the best quarterback of all time? No.

Is Peyton Manning the greatest quarterback ever?

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JABEE said:
Exactly. The league has done a great job of averting the catastrophe of having to explain how the Patriots cheated their way to a dynasty. We will never know the extent of their cheating, because the league burned the tapes, slapped the Patriots on the wrist, and let them keep their titles.
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Because since post-Spygate, who is the most-winning team in the NFL?

Manning is better than Brady.
Don't get me wrong, it's a close race.
I'd also say that Manning has never had to carry his team, but even acknowledging that, Manning is just that good.
 
Konka said:
tom_brady300.jpg
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haha...yea pretty much this. Brady god is just nuts good. he pretty much has a all rookie WR team right now and is still killing it. Brady is so good he doesn't even watch the game when the other team is on the field ;)
 
Yaboosh said:
How old are you though? Have you really seen many full games of Unitas, Montana, Marino, Elway? Even if you are i. Your late 30s, it would have been a while since you saw Marino or Elway, and you would have been young when you saw Montana, and you would have never seen Unitas live.

Goat discussions boil down to stat comparisons for anybody who isn't 110 years old. And what can you really tell from stat lines?
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Yeah guys like Unitas and Tarkenton are always forgotten in the GOAT conversations because of the era they played in, where we don't have good video records of all of their games and their stats look shitty by moderns standards because the way the position was played was completely different before Walsh showed how the west coast offense can win football games.

Peyton's 2 seasons in Denver so far have been the two of the three greatest seasons ever played by a QB according to QBR, and this is coming off of multiple neck surgeries, which is impressive. In Denver he finally has a great defense and run game behind him, which he never had in Indy. The Colts defenses were always built with the idea that all they had to do was slow the other team down and Peyton would put so much pressure on them to score points that they could force them into making mistakes. It was never a solid unit that could reliably get stops if the opposing team could run the ball.

The Colts also had good but not great running backs and an offensive line built to pass protect instead of run block. Basically the whole team was built around Manning and was reliant on him to put everyone else in a position to do well, which I think was a mistake, as good as he was.
 
Alligatorjandro said:
Have the Patriots wronged you friend?
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He summed it up pretty well.

Patriots cheated (allegedly) their way to 3 championships*, got found out, fined for it, the key witness mysteriously decided not to talk or write his book.

Post (alleged) cheating, they went to 2 Superbowls and got handled in both.

By the same team.

At least Viniteri finally got a legit chip in Indy.
 
iamvin22 said:
haha...yea pretty much this. Brady god is just nuts good. he pretty much has a all rookie WR team right now and is still killing it. Brady is so good he doesn't even watch the game when the other team is on the field ;)
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Killing it??? He has a horrible QB rating. His completion percentage is horrible and tons of his yards come from his running backs. You are so funny blind Patriot fans. HAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
All this talk got me in the mood to rewatch this classic:

Bill Walsh and the Art of Quarterbacking (about 43 min)

Before Walsh passed away, NFL Films got Walsh to go through how he develops quarterbacks to record it all on film, and Walsh got Montana out for the recordings. Always amazing to me how much that stuff is so ingrained into Montana that he could still go through everything long after his playing days.
 
NathanMcMahon said:
lol at the Superbowls don't matter bunch. The most important metric is Superbowl wins with consistency in winning directly behind that. Brady has both in spades. Manning wishes he had that Brady consistency.
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You don't remember Wiggins, Patten and Givens?

Seriously. What Brady did with no name receivers is incredible, not to mention his much better than Manning's TD:INT ratio.
 
I think Peyton has more raw talent than Brady, but what is amazing about Brady is that he is able to achieve great success with hard work, preparation, intelligence, nerves of steel. He has an ok arm, he is slow, he is not strong or athletic, yet he can read and dismantle defenses like not other.

I that sense I would say Brady is more impressive. If we are talking about pure athletic raw talent, I think Manning comes out on top. Remember Brady was drafted on the 6th round... I recommend watching the Brady 6 documentary.

Unfortunately the patriots get an unnecessary amount of blind hate as can be seen in the thread. nothing since spygate? The patriots have broken tons of records in the last 6 years and done so with mediocre teams. People don't even understand what spygate was about and just call it cheating. A quick read of the wikipedia article will point out a lot of the nuances, including that signal recording was never used to get an advantage during a game and that it was not only the Pats doing it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

But as usual, haters gonna hate, and people hate the pats because they are extremely professional and successful. They are a great organization in terms of community service and what not. If players and coaches were arrogant boasting assholes it might make sense, but Biill B. can't even say good things about his own team and if you hear Brady during press conferences he is extremely self critical, respectful, and generous to his teammates efforts.
 
Brady has no talent now and he is barely scraping by weak opponents. So all the "he makes even bad players look good" stuff I don't wanna hear about.

He hasn't won a SB in a decade. We saw what the colts really were without Manning, a 2-14 team with their wackiness masked by Peyton's greatness.

I can't delve too far into rings because Flacco has one, but he just threw 5 interceptions today. He's in a race with Eli for mediocrity.

I'm too young to know anyone pre-2002 but I would always put Manning over Brady anyday. A second SB win this year will vindicate him beyond belief into a guaranteed TOP 3 best of all-time spot. He had a broken friggin neck (Kurt Angle voice) and still put up a 13-3 season. Too bad he couldn't play defense as well.....
 
knicks said:
The reality is that both Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are better than Montana.

People just don't like admitting when newer generation players are superior to older ones.
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I agree here. The current generation of quarterbacks (led by Manning and Brady) completely changed the way the game is played, with some help from the rules
 
Megatonne said:
I agree here. The current generation of quarterbacks (led by Manning and Brady) completely changed the way the game is played, with some help from the rules
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LOL.

Pretty sure that was the NFL rule changes that penalize the defender and protect the quarterback.

Pretty sure it was that.
 
Equipped with the knowledge of exactly what defensive play his opponent is calling prior to the snap, Tom Brady can win a Superbowl.

In any other setting, Peyton outshines him.
 
Tom Brady's Career Playoff QB Rating: 87.4
Peyton Manning's Career Playoff QB Rating: 88.4

Tom Brady Postseason Games with 2 or more interceptions: 6
Peyton Manning Postseason Games with 2 or more interceptions: 6

Of 11 postseason losses, only in 4 did Peyton have a QB Rating under 80, with 2 of those coming in '99 and '02.

So tired of the choker moniker people continue to trot out against him.
 
Dougstyles said:
Tom Brady's Career Playoff QB Rating: 87.4
Peyton Manning's Career Playoff QB Rating: 88.4

Tom Brady Postseason Games with 2 or more interceptions: 6
Peyton Manning Postseason Games with 2 or more interceptions: 6

Of 11 postseason losses, only in 4 did Peyton have a QB Rating under 80, with 2 of those coming in '99 and '02.

So tired of the choker moniker people continue to trot out against him.
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Get those pesky stats outta here.
 
XiaNaphryz said:
All this talk got me in the mood to rewatch this classic:

Bill Walsh and the Art of Quarterbacking (about 43 min)

Before Walsh passed away, NFL Films got Walsh to go through how he develops quarterbacks to record it all on film, and Walsh got Montana out for the recordings. Always amazing to me how much that stuff is so ingrained into Montana that he could still go through everything long after his playing days.
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Thank you for posting that.

I'm still amazed at how easy Joe made it look to be a QB.
 
I'm a huge Peyton Manning fan. Been so since his Tennessee days and have been following him since then. With that said, I still can't consider him the GOAT because of his poor post season record and lack of Super Bowls. Sure it's a team sport and he wasn't at fault for every loss, yadda yadda. I use that defense all the time as Peyton Manning fan. But in order to beat the QB GOAT, you really do need to win multiple Super Bowls. That isn't the case for any other position. And to be honest, if it were not for Joe Montana most people wouldn't even think that 3+ Super Bowls are required for a QB to be considered the GOAT. But Joe Montana has 4 with respectable regular seasons to back it up. Brady was so close to that in 2007 and 2011, but losing each Super Bowl further hurt his argument because people will always bring up how Joe never lost a SB.

As for Peyton, his regular season numbers just so good that he may be able to overcome his past post season history if he can put together a couple of Super Bowl runs late in his career a la John Elway. If he had 3 SB's under his belt with his great regular season numbers and 4+ MVP awards. I think he would overtake Brady and everybody else and be in the discussion with Montana who most people rank as the GOAT.
 
Monohorde said:
If we are going by rings then it's Terry Bradshaw. First to 4!
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What it should be is total body of work - regular season stats, number of seasons they performed at a high level, playoff stats, championships, etc. All taken in context with the era they played in as well.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
He summed it up pretty well.

Patriots cheated (allegedly) their way to 3 championships*, got found out, fined for it, the key witness mysteriously decided not to talk or write his book.

Post (alleged) cheating, they went to 2 Superbowls and got handled in both.

By the same team.

At least Viniteri finally got a legit chip in Indy.
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Correlation != causation which is probably why nothing else was done about it.

That said, I agree, there just isn't anyway to definitively prove it was solely the spying. Maybe they were better than the teams they faced in the Super Bowl? Maybe the Giants just happened to get lucky twice, happened to want it more, or maybe they were cheating themselves?!

All jokes aside, I hate playing devils advocate. Brady is still a great QB, but I would take Manning over him pretty much every day.
 
1) It would be a much better thread without all the joke posts and bashing.

2)
iamblades said:
In Denver he finally has a great defense and run game behind him, which he never had in Indy.

The Colts also had good but not great running backs and an offensive line built to pass protect instead of run block. Basically the whole team was built around Manning and was reliant on him to put everyone else in a position to do well, which I think was a mistake, as good as he was.
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I think an argument can be made that
a) Edgerrin JAmes was a better RB than Knowshon Moreno is.
b) In comparison to Brady he always had good to great receivers.
 
Notrollious said:
Correlation != causation which is probably why nothing else was done about it.

That said, I agree, there just isn't anyway to definitively prove it was solely the spying.
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Then why was the team fined and the tapes destroyed? Goddell said he saw the tapes, there was nothing on them so he destroyed them...wat? All that circumstantial evidence looks bad.

The witness who was willing to talk to just about anyone, suddenly,after talking to Goddell, didn't have anything further to say?

If nothing happened, they certainly went the wrong way in restoring the public's trust.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
Then why was the team fined and the tapes destroyed?
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See I told you there wasn't a definitive way to prove it ;)

Nah, my point wasn't about the evidence itself, it was me just musing. Did they cheat? Yes. Did it help them? Absolutely. Was it the sole reason why they won those 3 Super Bowls? ...?

That's what I was getting at. You can cheat, but you at least need a pretty good team to fully profit from the cheating. No way the Jaguars could cheat their way to a Super Bowl victory in their state right now.
 
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