Gordon Shumway
Banned
Deep puddles..
Is there not a term more annoying than Social Justice Warrior?
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I think the original definition by Nawaz makes much sense. But—just like all these labels—it's increasingly becoming generalized, and thus overused; and ultimately it might become too toxic to be used. At least that's my impression from some of the the uses of that specific term that I have seen not so much in more respectable contexts but on on social media. That's an issue with all these labels, though. And this problem is probably as old as rhetoric itself.
Hi Shumway, how are you doing today? Everything good in your life?
The Elite
BOSS
Like most of these terms it will get overused and it's meaning will be lost. SJW actually had a meaning at some point in time and now it's just a slur at just about anyone who believes strongly in a cause.
I am generally growing tired of all these twitter/tumblr buzz terms on all sides. Not many people can actually have an argument these days, young or old, because we've created buzz terms that exist in place of actual discussion and argument. That might have a lot to do with the twitter word count, I don't know.
plagiarize
Banned
Forgive me, but there are numerous initiatives trying to reduce suicide rates already, aren't there?
Why do we even have to ask the question 'Why do more men kill themselves than women?' If we're trying to fix increasing levels of suicide, we need to be asking ourselves 'why are more people killing themselves now than before'.
Plus, look at this:
Now if your goal is to reduce suicides, I think what you need to be looking at isn't so much why do men kill themselves more than women when what you need to be looking at is why people in certain regions seem so much more likely to kill themselves than people in other regions.
Doesn't it seem kind of weird to specifically campaign for men's suicide awareness?
cubicle47b
Member
No, they aren't. Things are getting better for most people in most regards. That doesn't mean we don't have a lot of issues to address.
Vampire On Titus
Member
I think regressive left has a lot less baggage than SJW. I prefer it. Mostly because it doesn't disparage literally anyone who advocates for social justice causes on the face of it.
It used to be a term that defined somebody who just wanted any cause that could provide perceived moral superiority.
It's gone how it's gone now.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yes they are.
Gamergate
Ferguson
Black Lives Matter
Females in STEM
Females in general
Blacks in general
I wasn't explicit enough, what do you think about this?
Sometimes when people say sjw they aren't talking about socially progressive people in general. They are talking about socially progressive people who are toxic in their discourse.
Because the term is only ever used by people on one side of these issues?
The Elite
BOSS
Once upon a time injurai would be right. It held a different meaning. It's current use today, yeah, you're absolutely right.
Like I said, any sort of label or popular buzz term should be dumped if you want to have a strong argument.
I definitely agree here. But with context, I still see people use these terms in the more original sense. Though I see it more here than out on the rest of the web.
Crash Station
Member
Yeah, regressive left is a far more fitting term than SJW imo. It actually encapsulates some of the issues with the current climate.
I really liked that term at first too, but it started being used as a slur just the same. To the point you can't get away using it will the people who constructive criticism could fall upon. Though it has seemingly fallen in usage recently.
The Elite
BOSS
There are women who commit violence against men. I don't say "Well, maybe we should look at violence against people instead of just women" because I know the violence against women is a MUCH larger statistic.
In this case men are killing themselves in much larger numbers than women.
Why would it be so strange to ask why that is? Sure, we can look at it regionally if you like. Let's focus on where the issue is. I am also not saying that we should be looking at suicide in women.
I just think it's a little odd to ignore the much higher male statistic. In 2012 2972 males killed themselves in Canada versus 954 females. Lumping those two numbers into one group would be ignoring a glaring problem.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Yes it's a slur, but what you stated doesn't contradict the original meaning. Socially progressive people are the types of people that would be critical to bigotry in the first place. To use the term as an insult, means you inherent don't like socially progressive people in the first place, not that the term has stopped meaning as such.
That's what its become, not what it started out as or should currently be.
plagiarize
Banned
But I'm not saying the equivalent of that... because those two issues aren't directly related. You aren't either black or jewish. For the most part you are either male or female (again, acknowledging that there is some grey area in between the two genders). If only one side gets a perk, the imbalance swings in that direction. If only one side has a disadvantage solved, it swings back to them.
Personally I'd like to see equality (similar impact of the remaining disadvantages) hit before we've solved every problem (if we can ever solve every problem).
And I'm not saying we have to solve *all* of the problems that women face before we start solving the smaller list that men face. I'm saying lets get the lists about the same length.
I want to keep working towards the goal of equality for men and women, for people in between, for people of all races and sexual orientations... etc etc.
You don't get there sooner by solving problems that disproportionately effect the advantaged. Say we tackle the problems with equal focus... very soon men don't have any specific problems and women still have loads.
We talk about privelige. Well it sounds incredibly priveliged when I hear people saying that their very short list of problems shouldn't have to wait while we tackle another groups much longer list of problems.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
This crowd completely hurt the discussion that could have been had regarding race, trans issues, culture, sensitivity, etc by going way the fuck overboard. I wanna take these people and put them in a room with teabaggers. I wonder of they'll unite into one horrifying group.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
and that is unfortunate.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Language evolves through common usage, man. Like you might not even be a man, but putting "man" at the end there has become gender neutral for most people. There are people who don't like that, and maybe it'll change soon. The world goes on.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
So? The poster was talking in the present tense, not past tense. And when speaking in the present tense, injurai was 100% wrong.
Why is that? Are you that attached to the term?
plagiarize
Banned
Suicide is a problem we are already looking at. It hasn't been ignored just because it disproportionately effects men. Efforts are being made to slow the recent growth in suicides and hopefully start reducing them. The government are trying to reduce suicides. This helps men more than it helps women.
We are trying to fix something that disproportionately effects more men than women. If it was flipped around, and more women were killing themselves than men, do you think the issue would have as much focus?
I don't. Hence the need for advocacy of issues which disproportionately effect women.
The Elite
BOSS
That's not privilege, that's being logical and reasonable. We are never going to come to the end of any of these lists. As a society we have the ability to multitask a multitude of issues. It's only you who seems to see things as one singular list that has to be done in order.
You aren't doing your shopping, we're dealing with human beings with real issues that you want to ignore because other issues aren't dealt with yet. That is a shallow way of looking at things when we have the capability of being better than that.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Thinking about it's actually pretty sexist how it's common to refer to a group of people of guys regards of gender but if you said girls or gals you'd turn a few heads, we'll see if that changes or not
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Saying "SJW" is still, at its core, a positive term is 100% ignorant.
Just like how shit like the Swastika has been forever changed in meaning.
yes i did just use the analogy.
EDIT: Even when Social Justice Warrior was a positive term, it was still a fucking shitty term to use. It only made sense if you stripped all context away from the individual words used.
Just like how shit like the Swastika has been forever changed in meaning.
yes i did just use the analogy.
EDIT: Even when Social Justice Warrior was a positive term, it was still a fucking shitty term to use. It only made sense if you stripped all context away from the individual words used.
The Elite
BOSS
You keep pointing to all these efforts that the government is partaking in to try and curb suicides. We also have government agencies to deal with violence against women, racism and the multitude of other issues that face society. We still choose to have advocacy groups to support them as well.
I don't know if the issue would have more focus if it was flipped. That's a silly argument. It isn't flipped. Let's deal in reality. It's disproportionate for a reason. One that you're ok with ignoring because it's at the bottom of your list of issues to deal with.
I kinda agree. I mean, it's just way too self serving.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Social justice warrior was fringe term at best with very low useage co-opted as an insult, to those pushing an agenda against the norm that you don't like. The term never meant much and still doesn't.
plagiarize
Banned
As a society we can only focus on so much at any one time. That's why advocacy groups and lobbyists exist, to try to get as much of that focus on a particular issue. If you think the government has an unlimited ability to tackle every single problem equally you would be very wrong.
Issues are focused on based on the available resources, and based on how many of those available resources it would take to do something about that issue and on how much of a return you'd get for those resources. That's why major issues get back burnered when other major issues become more important.
More of those resources currently are focused on issues that primarly effect men than on issues that primarily effect women. If we want to use more resources on issues that primarily effect women... that has to come from somewhere.
Language does change, but that doesn't mean old language is just lost overnight. The term is less than a decade old, and a lot of people still use it in it's original meaning. They still use it in it's original meaning even though they paint it as a pejorative. In fact it has always been a term of disdain. It was just more wisely and accurately used at one point. I'd say it's application has changed more than it's meaning.
What about my corrected version?
As for the tense. The present tense alludes the accumulation of all the words connotations. Like I said, it's original meaning is not simply deprecated because you decide it is.
It was never a positive term, it was always a term of criticism.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
The people that use the term SJW don't even realize it is ironic when they use it.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Protip: anytime a term is coined by the left to criticize the left, it will soon be adopted by the right and used out of context. That's how language works.
If we switch to regressive left, that'll get used. If we switch to one after that, that will be used and we'll have to get a new one.
You just have to keep up, and demonize those unfortunate/slow enough to use the old terms, like the other progressives will.
If we switch to regressive left, that'll get used. If we switch to one after that, that will be used and we'll have to get a new one.
You just have to keep up, and demonize those unfortunate/slow enough to use the old terms, like the other progressives will.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, SJW had a different meaning. Today, its an indicator that the person using it is probably a shithead.
Crash Station
Member
I guess I just don't hang around the same places you do as I've never seen the term used as a broad pejorative.
That getting flanderized would be stupid, as it means exactly how it sounds considering there are a ton of people on the left being regressive hypocrites.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
in the US alone suicide numbers can be improved by stricter gun control.
actually the map itself is interesting because it pretty much follows population density and it seems greater suicide risk is in places where there are fewer people residing.
The issue is SJW is used to insult someone who typically has no argument against a progressive movement or it makes them feel bad about hearing it. Be it sexism, racism, homosexuality, etc. Sort of like people who say if a women is complaining, she's a bitch. That general blanket insult term used to insult someone and say their opinion doesn't matter.
The fault to it is people from Tumblr, Reddit, and sites like that. Where an actual issue gets hooked on to meme like culture.
The fault to it is people from Tumblr, Reddit, and sites like that. Where an actual issue gets hooked on to meme like culture.
Seriously though, what's the best replacement?
I know words can change meaning. I just think sometimes it sucks. Like I don't know if the term was ever the best one to be using and I couldn't tell you its exact origin but at least there was a point in time when someone could use it and I could know exactly what they meant and I didn't have to second guess their intentions or stances on particular issues. Now the term is basically worthless. I couldn't even tell you what term someone should use to describe what SJW initially meant nowadays.
I certainly could be making a poor assumption/poor reading but I took his statement to be arguing for the classic definition of the word and not that he was ignorant of how the term has been flanderized.
because it muddles the original meaning behind the pejorative. And yeah, I think it was quite apt.
plagiarize
Banned
I didn't want to bring up gun control, but I'm very aware that higher suicide rates in America pretty much line up with higher percentages of households with guns.
I want to see suicides come down even though it's a problem that effects men more than women. I just don't personally see why we have to specifically tackle male suicide.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Terms borne out of or used because of the need to keep things binary and avoid any need for critical thought on an individual basis are generally annoying.
How is that fair though? I mean, if we're to use the examples of demonization so many people online do, it just leads to aggressive and condescending "EDUCATE YOURSELF, PROBLEMATIC" comments and creates an even wider gap due to the hostility that's born from it.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
There's no need to replace the term. Attack the argument. Whenever I see someone I know is fucking up, like if they're getting really worked up over a misunderstanding or something minor, I explain how they're getting worked up over a misunderstanding or something minor. That's always been the problem with "SJW": it assumes people fit into easy packages for us to understand without full consideration for and engagement with the person and their opinions. SJW has always just been there to dismiss a person and their arguments entirely without having to spend any additional time on how they got there, why they're there, and who they are. It's for stupid people to hand wave what they don't understand and don't want to understand while trying to be childishly insulting.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
completely agreed. we can do a better job in this country (and overall) with mental health issues.
umop_3pisdn
Member
Still sounds like some kind of receptive orifice to me.
I may be over selling its use actually. But a while back it got some uptake in atheist circles. Who were sick of being labeled xenophobic for:
1. Holding a position that Islamic text directly contributes to some of its interpretations.
2. Arguing that the immigration in crisis in Europe needs to be gotten under control.
So the word was used to talk about those who couldn't stand a minute of either of the above, and labeled them xenophobic for it. Yeah, I guess I haven't seen it used much recently. I was worried that it was going to become a word that when used is immediately dismissed. But I still don't use it because I just don't know how people take to it.
You are correct in how you read it.
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