ViperVisor
Member
2009-2011 he was a good part time slugger after the complete dud in LA.
Lincecum was a HOF pitcher by the numbers his first 5 years and the next 5 he was like a #5 starter
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Is Tiger Woods' decline the worst in professional sports?
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2009-2011 he was a good part time slugger after the complete dud in LA.
Lincecum was a HOF pitcher by the numbers his first 5 years and the next 5 he was like a #5 starter
DeaconKnowledge
Member
The cheating scandal is what did him in.
For years we heard that his swing wasn't sustainable - he hit the ball 20-30 yards farther then the next best golfer on average. He got injured, then immediately after got busted for cheating - that time away from the game was his last best chance to get those majors under his belt before his body quit on him.
When you're an athlete, time away from the game is the most damaging thing that can happen to you - it's the one constant with all of the athletes mentioned in this thread.
For years we heard that his swing wasn't sustainable - he hit the ball 20-30 yards farther then the next best golfer on average. He got injured, then immediately after got busted for cheating - that time away from the game was his last best chance to get those majors under his belt before his body quit on him.
When you're an athlete, time away from the game is the most damaging thing that can happen to you - it's the one constant with all of the athletes mentioned in this thread.
entremet
Member
He's not hated for PEDs, but how he bullied those who threatened to expose him.
Your Entertainer
Member
No fire hydrant and he would have beaten Jack, even if all other injuries stayed the same.
Keeping hydrant, no unlucky flagpole hit and he would have won 15 at the 2013 masters
I think his majors, wins and dominance against much tougher fields make him GOAT
Keeping hydrant, no unlucky flagpole hit and he would have won 15 at the 2013 masters
I think his majors, wins and dominance against much tougher fields make him GOAT
Cheechoo is evidence of Joe Thornton's greatness, nothing more.
Tiger's body has completely quit on him, and the desire is probably not the same. Even if he could get mentally right, he can't seem to get physically set.
It's not talent drop off man, come on.
He's had countless surgeries to try and rectify the damage he's caused to his back and knees.
dealer-
Member
Yeah, he won the Player's Championship in 2013, which is pretty much the fifth major. He's just had too many setbacks, his body isn't able to cope with the rigours of regular competitive golf.
Another great example is Chuck Knoblauch.
Had a promising start to his career, winning the AL rookie of the year award in 91, a gold glove, and was a 4x All-Star.
He wasn't on the level of Tiger Woods, but he was a good second baseman.
After signing with them Yankees, he lost all ability to throw to first base. He couldn't make an accurate throw if he tried. He had one game where he threw an arrant ball and hit Keith Olbermann's mom in the head.
It was crazy how he just lost it.
Had a promising start to his career, winning the AL rookie of the year award in 91, a gold glove, and was a 4x All-Star.
He wasn't on the level of Tiger Woods, but he was a good second baseman.
After signing with them Yankees, he lost all ability to throw to first base. He couldn't make an accurate throw if he tried. He had one game where he threw an arrant ball and hit Keith Olbermann's mom in the head.
It was crazy how he just lost it.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Tiger basically destroyed his body. He's had surgery after surgery, and instead of listening to doctors he would come back to the tour before his was fully rehabbed.
He fucked up, but at last on his last surgery he's actually listening and isn't going to come back till he gets an all clear.
Gonna be interesting to see his new swing
So then, no? You could argue Tiger's aggressive swing and play style is what put him on that pace to beat Jack. Maybe he wouldn't have won as much if he held back.
teruterubozu
Member
Isn't this common in golf though? People fade in and out, then in again. It's practically a lifelong career. Jack Nicklaus didn't win all the time. His last major win was when he was 46.
entremet
Member
Yeah, that was crazy.
Lee Sharpe went from being a PL player to being a bench player in Iceland.
Took him 2 years.
Manchester United
FA Premier League (3): 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96
FA Cup (2): 1993–94, 1995–96
Football League Cup (1): 1991–92
FA Community Shield (3): 1990, 1993, 1994
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1991
Individual
PFA Young Player of the Year: 1990–91
Took him 2 years.
Manchester United
FA Premier League (3): 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96
FA Cup (2): 1993–94, 1995–96
Football League Cup (1): 1991–92
FA Community Shield (3): 1990, 1993, 1994
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1991
Individual
PFA Young Player of the Year: 1990–91
Ronaldinho comes to mind. He went from arguably the best football player of all time to a complete shitshow in the space of about 5 years.
There have been faster declines, but there aren't many that fall from the great height Ronaldinho was at in such a short time and at a young age without a major injury.
I still think he should have been picked for world cup 2010 though. But whatever.
There have been faster declines, but there aren't many that fall from the great height Ronaldinho was at in such a short time and at a young age without a major injury.
I still think he should have been picked for world cup 2010 though. But whatever.
Yep, watching it all unfold on live tv
When I was a teen was amazing. I wonder if it was truly a psychological thing or something medical, since his throwing NEVER got better.
race bannon
Neo Member
Nope, Steph Curry
Wafflecakes
Member
What is this silly season argument?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
From a tennis perspective, I guess Chang is a good example? He played his best at his very youngest and his whole professional career was a story of decline aside from a brief resurgence in 1996.
esmith08734
Member
Hm I dunno. Hard to really maintain the level of success Tiger had. He dominated for a long, long time. Lincecum is a good example. He got worse as he went into his prime. I won't say Peyton Manning because he had the worst season of his career at the very end of his career.
Here's one: Barry Zito. Arguably the best pitcher in the American League - goes to the NL and duds.
Here's one: Barry Zito. Arguably the best pitcher in the American League - goes to the NL and duds.
Tiger declined because of injuries as well. You try winning the US open playoff while injured.
His decline is no different than that of Nadal imo, the only difference is he had a public scandal. Other noteworthy guys that disappeared in the past 10 years or so:
Ryan Howard (his contract was beautiful)
Dwight Howard
AI
Derrick Rose
Tiger's decline and injuries is nothing special, we are just used to the greatest players never getting injured, bc how else will you set those records.
Also what happened to Rory Mcilroy? Had the honor of "replacing" tiger in terms of the media's special snowflake and got the Tiger Woods game named after him and it seems like he hasn't won shit in years
tiggerkiddo
Member
While nowhere near as big as Tiger, it was interesting to watch how Shaun Alexander went from best RB in the NFL and then he was just gone. Father Time hits RB's fast
Amory
Member
Well, he screwed up his back. He'll still play in some tournaments before calling it quits, but he's pretty much permanently injured at this point.
It's not like he's just not good at golf anymore.
But aside from the injury, a big part of Tiger's mystique was the intimidation factor. After the sex scandal that kind of faded.
It's not like he's just not good at golf anymore.
But aside from the injury, a big part of Tiger's mystique was the intimidation factor. After the sex scandal that kind of faded.
30yearsofhurt
Member
Tiger's decline can be traced back to firing his caddy.
entremet
Member
And destroying his body with Navy SEAL aspirations. I'm not kidding here lol. Look it up.
Didn't the same thing happen to Ladainian Tomlinson? One day he was the best RB ever and then the lasting image I have of him is that game against the Pats the year they went 18-1 and he's sitting injured on the sideline with the coat on.
Although I claim that's my lasting image of him but he went on to have a good season with the Jets
What's silly about it? He played himself out of contention for the all time record. Durability counts as part of the GOAT designation.
B
bomb
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah. I was talking to Rocco Mediate on Monday and he thinks you are wrong. No one will ever have the stretch that Tiger had.
I recall in his late 20s he was using a compacted swing for tee shots, hitting almost a punch shot with a 3 wood. Incredibly straight and consistent. I thought he made this change to combat the issues you bring up. But it went away after about one season and he never brought it back, at least not with any regularity.
I think more than anything he was obsessed with tweaking every part of his game constantly for the sake of it.
Fedor Emelianenko looked like the terminator for years just absolutely destroying the competition and his only defeat coming I think by DQ due to a cut. He tried to fight in the US and ended up losing three in a row--the first two to a couple mid-level UFC rejects, and the last one to Dan Henderson who was old as shit and was also fighting up a weight class. It took a very short time for him to go from being considered the GOAT, to being completely irrelevant.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
They have also revamped the courses. Holes are getting longer over time. Which is not good for the 40 year old player.
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2011/11/30/pga-tour-driving-distance-over-the-decades.html
So that will benefit the young players. In tiger's day, he killed courses so thoroughly that they would change the course the next year. He was winning by 12 strokes.
The difference was that the sport adapted and the players adapted, unlike women's tennis.
B
bomb
Unconfirmed Member
No it was due to him picking three terrible swing coaches in a row.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Knoblauch got the yips. Happens to tons of baseball players. He was dealing with the death of his father at the time,
Are you just... not aware of the other thing that happened that ruined his game? Perhaps an enormous psychological blow that he would never get over?
Not even close. Tiger's decline has more to do with injury, essentially his body has given up on him, and personal life crisis rather a decline in talent. As many have already posted other athletes such as Ronaldinho, Shawn Kemp, Barry Zito and Ryan Howard are all good examples.
Athletes who declined due to injury and age is far greater Ronaldo, Van Basten, Kaka, Torres, Derrick Rose, Yao, Dwight Howard, Rondo, Stoudemire, Odom, Penny, Brandon Roy, TMac, Marbury, Francis, RG3, Manning, Chris Johnson, Mark Mulder, Prior, Wood and countless others.
Athletes who declined due to injury and age is far greater Ronaldo, Van Basten, Kaka, Torres, Derrick Rose, Yao, Dwight Howard, Rondo, Stoudemire, Odom, Penny, Brandon Roy, TMac, Marbury, Francis, RG3, Manning, Chris Johnson, Mark Mulder, Prior, Wood and countless others.
Golf is a mental game. Here's what Tiger was doing while dominating golf:
- dealing with unprecedented fame and fortune
- lying to his wife, kids, and the whole world
- arranging very elaborate and hidden hook ups with multiple women
- suffering from a severe daddy issues
- hanging out with Navy Seals and doing intense Navy Seals training
- probably part of a sophisticated PED/doping program
I mean, that seals the deal for me that he's the best ever.
- dealing with unprecedented fame and fortune
- lying to his wife, kids, and the whole world
- arranging very elaborate and hidden hook ups with multiple women
- suffering from a severe daddy issues
- hanging out with Navy Seals and doing intense Navy Seals training
- probably part of a sophisticated PED/doping program
I mean, that seals the deal for me that he's the best ever.
It must just drive Tiger crazy sitting at home watching Phil Mickelson dominating a major at age 46. He must think 'Why the FUCK isn't that me?'
Glad he stopped embarassing himself by showing up with no game and pretending he could win. Wouldn't mind if he got healthy and made the classic 'one last run'.
Glad he stopped embarassing himself by showing up with no game and pretending he could win. Wouldn't mind if he got healthy and made the classic 'one last run'.
17 Seconds
Banned
comparing him to guys who play any of the major team sports is pointless. those guys are all done after 40 no matter what. you can stay dominant in golf for much longer. you could have expected that he'd reached his point at some point during his dominance, but it is kind of crazy how much he fell off.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Reading comprehension is hard know. I said when he became a pro. I based it on his swing at the time. There was no seal training then.
Face it I'm a goddamn seer.
You really think it's that far fetched? I think it's far more likely that he was doing stuff than not.
Imagine if he played a real sport instead of a game.
The Albatross
Member
Very well could be. Can't think of an athlete other than maybe McGuire or Armstrong who tumbled further and faster
Tiger Woods, Mark McGuire, or Lance Armstrong.
I would have said Peyton Manning in his last season, but that Peyton ended up being the starting QB on the team that won the Super Bowl, nobody will remember that he was the 31st worst QB in the NFL last season. When Denver signed Mark Sanchez after Manning retired, people laughed that they were going from arguably the best passer of all time to Mark Sanchez, yet, Sanchez was a better quarterback statistically than Manning in 2015... It was an improvement!
That said, Manning being the starting QB of a Super Bowl winning team makes that irrelevant. And Peyton didn't have the same personal issues as Woods, McGuire, or Amstrong, he just got very old, probably injured, very fast.
Tiger Woods, Mark McGuire, or Lance Armstrong.
I would have said Peyton Manning in his last season, but that Peyton ended up being the starting QB on the team that won the Super Bowl, nobody will remember that he was the 31st worst QB in the NFL last season. When Denver signed Mark Sanchez after Manning retired, people laughed that they were going from arguably the best passer of all time to Mark Sanchez, yet, Sanchez was a better quarterback statistically than Manning in 2015... It was an improvement!
That said, Manning being the starting QB of a Super Bowl winning team makes that irrelevant. And Peyton didn't have the same personal issues as Woods, McGuire, or Amstrong, he just got very old, probably injured, very fast.
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