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[kmax]

We can all thank the American foreign policy as Bush and his little supporters in their infinite wisdom decided to destabilize the region and create this Frankenstein.

There are no easy solutions now. Nobody wants to send ground troops into that region and bombing campaigns will only slow ISIS down, they can not be stopped completely as their ranks are constantly growing and they control large cities.

bu-bu-but Obama...!

 

[Red Mage]

the source for them all is the same bad source hadith from 120 years after the Prophet's death and widely disputed by muslims themselves.....except ISIS/Taliban/Al-Qaeda/Boko Haram etc.......

but hey if you still want to give it credibility then go ahead.

As opposed to works several hundred years after his death, right?

Besides, it's in Surah 33:26

033.026
YUSUFALI: And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.
PICKTHAL: And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.
SHAKIR: And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part.

; )

 

[Valhelm]

If a CNN crew went to Iraq under Saddam they would have met the information minister who would have raised his hands up and said nothing bad is going on

if a CNN crew went to Iraq under ISIS...

oh wait they can't go because they will be dead


That is the difference.

Eh. Vice got in, and spoke to the ISIS spokesperson.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Eh. Vice got in, and spoke to the ISIS spokesperson.

Hey, isn't that guy dead now?

 

[ICKE]

bu-bu-but Obama...!

Obama has to take some blame as he was unwilling to react quickly when the Syrian conflict started and Assad used chemical weapons to fuel the flames. But ISIS was always going to happen when the region descended into total chaos and anarchy, it is just human nature.

You hear a lot of people longing for the days when Al Qaeda - originally CIA trained and equipped - was the main enemy. That is how bad things are now.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Of course attacks are gonna rise after the enemy that these guys have been foaming at the mouth to take over decides to invade their territory. What is your point?

The point is this is what happens when interventions result in political animosities spill over and radicalizations spill out

Iraq

Syria

Pakistan

Afghanistan

all the attacks with the 'Islam' word associated with it

You can see the Pattern now and the lack of it pre 1990

 

[Mohonky]

Eh. Vice got in, and spoke to the ISIS spokesperson.

I watched the Vice thing and I am almost certain whoever went in was Muslim and filmed it giving them the impression they were doing it for a kind of propagandha thing.

Notice you never see any shots of the person doing that documentary, just someone behind a camera, no presenter. Certainly not a westerner.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

shit is too depressing

 

[Nocturnal]

These... shitheads should be exterminated.

 

[RustyNails]

Obama has to take some blame as he was unwilling to react quickly when the Syrian conflict started and Assad used chemical weapons to fuel the flames. But ISIS was always going to happen when the region descended into total chaos and anarchy, it is just human nature.

You hear a lot of people longing for the days when Al Qaeda - originally CIA trained and equipped - was the main enemy. That is how bad things are now.

I agree. But Alas Obama is not an emperor. He wanted to go earlier as soon as Syria crossed his "red line". But the republicans in Congress blocked him, even though they wanted the same thing. They did not want to give Obama any victories or positivity.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Eh. Vice got in, and spoke to the ISIS spokesperson.

isnt Medyan Dairieh an indy muslim reporter who reported from the region long before? try to send a white, back or Latino nonmuslim American there with the vice crew solo.

 

[Amory]

Jesus, these are some really fucking bad people.

this reads like a modern version of the Mongol invasions

 

[Exr]

I miss Sadam.

Every time news about Iraqi terror groups someone says this and its a really stupid thing to say so I hope its ironic at this point. Saddam had specific rape rooms with one way glass, allowing the girls relatives or partner to watch. What the IS is doing is horrible but its nothing new, dont kid yourself.

 

[speculawyer]

The point is this is what happens when interventions result in political animosities spill over and radicalizations spill out
Iraq
Syria
Pakistan
Afghanistan
all the attacks with the 'Islam' word associated with it
You can see the Pattern now and the lack of it pre 1990

So basically you agree with the people that said it was best to keep Muslim states under secular dictatorship rule instead of trying to create democracies out of them because they can't handle democracy yet.

I guess things were more calm when Egypt, Pakistan, Syria, and Iraq were run by dictators. :-/

 

[Maninthemirror]

So basically you agree with the people that said it was best to keep Muslim states under secular dictatorship rule instead of trying to create democracies out of them because they can't handle democracy yet.

I guess things were more calm when Egypt, Pakistan, Syria, and Iraq were run by dictators. :-/

yes secular and like attaturk who put all radical clerics in one location then restricted the clerics (and i tihnk be bombed a ship with clerics). that is how it should be run. Religion should be seen as envy not with fear.

 

[MacNille]

yes secular and like attaturk who put all radical clerics in one location then bombed the ship. that is how it should be run. Religion should be seen as envy not with fear.

Don't compare Attaturk to those fuckups. Attaturk is waaaaay out of their league.

 

[Meier]

I just don't understand. Legitimately can't fathom.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Don't compare Attaturk to those fuckups. Attaturk is waaaaay out of their league.

I think these countries need a leader like Ataturk and take a roller and roll over everyone extremist

 

[MacNille]

I think these countries need a leader like Ataturk and take a roller and roll over everyone extremist

That I can agree on. But the chance they will get a leader like Ataturk is not great.

 

[Stereogatari]

Why can't we call them IBLIS?

Spot on.

I think these countries need a leader like Ataturk and take a roller and roll over everyone extremist

Ataturk's life and the Turkish nation's progression is very culturally specific and difficult to compare to other parts of the Muslim world unfortunately.

yes secular and like attaturk who put all radical clerics in one location then restricted the clerics (and i tihnk be bombed a ship with clerics). that is how it should be run. Religion should be seen as envy not with fear.

He never bombed a ship with clerics loool. He implemented Secular law and closed a lot of the religious orders, removing the many different sub-cults within Turkish Islam, so people would only be loyal to the state and God would be a private matter for them. Finally all religious instruction in Turkish mosque are state authorised, they all sing from the same Quranic sheet (hence why Turkey doesn't have an extremism problem, Turkish mosques all have the same government mandated version of Islam).

 

[rambis]

The point is this is what happens when interventions result in political animosities spill over and radicalizations spill out

Iraq
http://i.imgur.com/midDhgb.png[/IM

Syria
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/1Kfk6Hs.png[/IM
Pakistan
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Q1X1Sun.png[/IMG

Afghanistan
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/drdiB7w.png[/IMG


all the attacks with the 'Islam' word associated with it
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/97IVPPZ.png


You can see the Pattern now and the lack of it pre 1990

Radicalization is expected of any kind of forceful uprising. Again the problem is that the coalition left its puppet government to fend for itself far too prematurely.

The US certainly fudged up I'm their handling of the situation. That's not up for debate. You can't half ass the overthrowing of a government. It was bullshat that Bush lied and bullshitted his way over their but its just as bad to leave them high and dry. Obama gets a lot more consideration from me though considering that the will of the people was overwhelmingly in favor of leaving.

I watched the Vice thing and I am almost certain whoever went in was Muslim and filmed it giving them the impression they were doing it for a kind of propagandha thing.

Notice you never see any shots of the person doing that documentary, just someone behind a camera, no presenter. Certainly not a westerner.

What does him possibly being Muslim have to do with anything? They kill more Muslims then they kill any other group. Its because Muhammad labels the "hypocrites" as lower than even the infidels. Even in the vice video you here the guy explains what happens to the hypocrites.

It most certainly was for propaganda, but so would Saadam hosting any news outlet. What is it with the false equivalence?

 

[SniperHunter]

what happened to the airstrikes?

all these vermins should be killed

 

[Eighty Deuce]

edit:this stuff is making me want to re-enlist, but IM an old man!

I understand that feeling, I'll probably join a PMC when the US decides to do something about ISIS.

 

[BBboy20]

what happened to the airstrikes?

all these vermins should be killed

They're still happening, it's just that they won't be enough.

 

[HOMEBOY OVER HERE]

Half of you sound like war mongering republicans.

It's sad but let's not forget who stepped in and caused mass genocide and conflict in a region that we should have nothing to do with.

 

[ISOM]

Saddam was a LOT better than anything that has transpired in Iraq for the past 13 years. Nearly every single person in the country is worse off than they were before.

The Kurds have been better off though without a dictator who's goal seemed to be to wipe them out.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Fuck them..so on and so forth. Shits..

 

[MisterFalcon]

The point is this is what happens when interventions result in political animosities spill over and radicalizations spill out

Pakistan

You can see the Pattern now and the lack of it pre 1990

I guess the 300,000+ people murdered by radical islamist militias in East Pakistan in 1971 don't count as terrorism as the killers were working directly for the Pakistani government. Iraq also had a serious Kurdish uprising in the 1970's that is whitewashed away.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

Why the fuck don't we go and put these rabid dogs down once and for all.

Clean up the whole of the Middle East and don't stop until it's done.

Getting sick of seeing this shit every single day.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Fucking Islam extremists.

 

[kmax]

Fucking Islam extremists.

Fuck all extremists. They're all fucking cancer and make the world a worse place than what it otherwise could be.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Why the fuck don't we go and put these rabid dogs down once and for all.

Clean up the whole of the Middle East and don't stop until it's done.

Getting sick of seeing this shit every single day.

I'm sick of it too but I think you know it's not possible to put them down "once and for all" and the last thing we need to do is try to clean up the whole Middle East. We've fucked shit up for enough countries over there. The Middle East is a large region and its members will need to figure it out.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

I understand that feeling, I'll probably join a PMC when the US decides to do something about ISIS.

Im a DoD Civilian in Logistics MGMT-(moving beans and bombs) but I miss the days of wearing the uniform

 

[Maninthemirror]

If god is so great, how come god can't even implement a decent source control system? God could at least use one of the plenty of open source ones available.

Oh it did which is why Quran didn't change while hadith written years sometimes century after Islams jnception has had corruption due to some having dubious nature. Hadith takes a back seat to Quran. Quran is the first and foremost word to muslims and the only hadith which give explanation to the verses are only considered legit if they don't contradict the Quran, this due to Hadith's handed down across years nature and multiple sources

 

[Maninthemirror]

I guess the 300,000+ people murdered by radical islamist militias in East Pakistan in 1971 don't count as terrorism as the killers were working directly for the Pakistani government. Iraq also had a serious Kurdish uprising in the 1970's that is whitewashed away.

If you want to get into state sponsored terrorism I can cite you some examples from the western countries in Middle East too

 

[Maninthemirror]

As opposed to works several hundred years after his death, right?

Besides, it's in Surah 33:26



; )

so easy to argue when the other doesn't know islam

http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=2115&region=E1&CR=

MYTH
Myth #1: Prophet Muhammad murdered 700 innocent Jews
Did Prophet Muhammad kill 700 Jews?
This is perhaps one of the most common contemporary allegations levied against Prophet Muhammad [1]. It is also one of the most spurious.
This event occurred after the largest battle ever held on Arabian soil in Medina during Prophet Muhammad’s life. The Confederate Army comprised of no less than 12,000 soldiers while the Muslims barricaded themselves in Medina, along with their sworn allies—per the Charter of Medina—numbering roughly a tenth the size. While the Muslims were victorious, they came within moments of annihilation due to the Banu Quraizah tribe’s treason.
Critics baselessly claim that Prophet Muhammad blindly executed the entire tribe. This too is baseless. Prophet Muhammad and the Jews were allies, as enshrined in the Charter of Medina Article 49, which states, “The parties to this Pact are bound to help each other in the event of an attack on Yathrib.” The Banu Quraizah Tribe was an equal and willing party to this pact. Yet, in the heat of battle, the Banu Quraizah sided with the enemy against the state of Medina despite their prior signed agreement. Fortunately, the remaining allied Medina army was able to withstand this treasonous act and win the battle against incredible odds. The question remained, however, how to address the Banu Quraizah’s treason. Adding to the dilemma was the fact that the Banu Quraizah had committed this act once before, upon which Prophet Muhammad merely exiled them. When they later asked his forgiveness, he granted it, which is why they had since re-entered Medina. The 19th century historian Stanley Lane-Poole accurately describes the events that followed the Battle of the Ditch:
Of the sentences on the three clans, that of exile, passed upon two of them, was clement enough. They were a turbulent set, always setting the people of Medina by the ears; and finally, a brawl followed by an insurrection resulted in the expulsion of one tribe; and insubordination, alliance with enemies and a suspicion of conspiracy against the Prophet’s life, ended similarly for the second. Both tribes had violated the original treaty, and had endeavored in every way to bring Muhammad and his religion to ridicule and destruction. The only question is whether their punishment was not too light. Of the third clan a fearful example was made, not by Muhammad, but by an arbiter appointed by themselves. When Quraish and their allies were besieging Medina and had well-nigh stormed the defences, this Jewish tribe [the Banu Quraizah] entered into negotiations with the enemy, which were only circumvented by the diplomacy of the Prophet. When the besiegers had retired, Muhammad naturally demanded an explanation of the Jews. They resisted in their dogged way and were themselves besieged and compelled to surrender at discretion. Muhammad, however, consented to the appointing of a chief of a tribe allied to the Jews as the judge who should pronounce sentence upon them. This chief gave sentence that the men, in numbers some 600, should be killed, and the women and children enslaved; and the sentence was carried out. It was a harsh, bloody sentence; but it must be remembered that the crime of these men was high treason against the State, during a time of siege; and one need not be surprised at the summary execution of a traitorous clan.” [2]
Thus, Prophet Muhammad did not order any execution, nor did he participate in the execution. On the contrary, Prophet Muhammad graciously agreed to let the Banu Quraizah’s own ally, Sa‘d bin Mu‘adh of Aus, deliver the verdict. Why blame Prophet Muhammad for a decision he did not make and for a crime he did not commit? Adding to the injustice in blaming Prophet Muhammad is the fact that Sa‘d bin Mu‘adh did not deliver his decision based on the Qur’an. Rather, he delivered the judgment for the Banu Quraizah based on the punishment for treason that their book, the Torah, prescribes:
“When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee: That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.” [3]
Thus, the Banu Quraizah sealed their own fate, with their own actions, according to their own Book. Prophet Muhammad had nothing to do with it—other than agreeing to let an ally to the Banu Quraizah arbitrate between them, and to bind himself to that arbiter’s decision.
Moreover, no Jewish tribes, Jewish historians, or Jewish scholars record this event. This is shocking because the Jewish people have recorded their history better than perhaps any people in history. Yet, in regards to such a massive execution, every Jewish historian, scholar, and tribe is silent.
Dr. Barakat Ahmad, author of “Muhammad and the Jews,” argues, based on authentic sources from time periods well before Ibn Ishaq, that it is highly probable that no execution took place at all. We gladly invite Wilders, or anyone for that matter, to respond to Dr. Ahmad’s book.
As of now, however, it is clear that Prophet Muhammad committed no wrong against the Banu Quraizah. History records that the Banu Quraizah agreed to a constitution, the Charter of Medina, and that constitution explicitly required loyalty to the state of Medina, particularly in case of attack from an external army. After committing to Medina, the Banu Quraizah violated that loyalty with a treasonous act in the heat of battle. The claimed execution that followed, if it happened, was the result of their choice to commit treason, per the judgment of a judge they demanded, according to the law elucidated in their book. Prophet Muhammad, far from being responsible for any deaths, interceded and even forgave those Jews who asked his forgiveness. To place even the slightest responsibility on anyone but the Banu Quraizah is nothing less than ridiculous.

[1] Geert Wilders, Marked for Death: Islam’s War Against the West and Me, 39 (2012).
[2] Stanley Lane-Poole, Studies in a Mosque, 68 (1883) (emphasis added).
[3] Deuteronomy 20: 10-18.
- See more at: http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org/mu...dered-700-innocent-jews/#sthash.2GWKVr9K.dpuf

Want more: Read a fuller account: http://www.alislam.org/library/browse/book/Life_of_Muhammad/#page/155/mode/1up

 

[m_shortpants]

Truly, these guys are scum.

 

[MisterFalcon]

If you want to get into state sponsored terrorism I can cite you some examples from the western countries in Middle East too

Why do I have the feeling this list will include every bad thing ever done by one muslim to another for the last 50 years ? All instigated by the insidious West.

 

[AnathemicOne]

Why the fuck don't we go and put these rabid dogs down once and for all.

Clean up the whole of the Middle East and don't stop until it's done.

Getting sick of seeing this shit every single day.

Because we tried that already and the result is what you're seeing now.

 

[RoadHazard]

It's just incomprehensible how a human being can become so deeply evil. I've never hated anything as fiercly as I hate this group and others like it. I know you're not supposed to stoop to their level by wishing death upon them, but I can't help it. I really, truly want them dead. Preferably after suffering a great deal. Torture followed by death (followed by an eternity of agony in hell, if such a place exists - which I unfortunately (in this case) don't believe), yeah, that sounds about right for these vermin.

 

[OuterLimits]

No. Objectively the world is far worse now without Saddam. Taliban, sure. But not Saddam.

Maybe. However Saddam would be near 80 years old if still alive. His ability to rule may have slipped over time anyway. Would his sons have been able to maintain control of the country? Perhaps they would have been even more brutal than their father especially if rival groups were fighting with them for control of the country. Chances are decent he would be dead now and perhaps a power vacuum would have occurred anyway.

 

[Mohonky]

What does him possibly being Muslim have to do with anything? They kill more Muslims then they kill any other group. Its because Muhammad labels the "hypocrites" as lower than even the infidels. Even in the vice video you here the guy explains what happens to the hypocrites.

It most certainly was for propaganda, but so would Saadam hosting any news outlet. What is it with the false equivalence?

Mainly the fact that he wasnt killed?

ISIS have been running round killing everyone that doesnt fit their particular branch of idealogy. Western journalists, foreign aid workers, Christians, Non-Sunni Muslims etc.

The area they are operating (Iraq, Syria and Lebanon) is predominantly Muslim, so of course it stands to reason most of the people being killed in this struggle are Muslims, namely those that follow Shia.

Hence why I suggested whoever shot that Vice documentary would had to have been a Muslim themselves, particularly Sunni otherwise they wouldnt have had a hope in hell of getting any footage. They'd have ended up with the other foreign aid workers and journalists awaiting beheading in some ransom video.

Secondly I suggested the pretext given for taking the footage and the interviews had to have been filmed under the pretext of a propaganda film to get permission to allow the filming to begin with. If they knew this was for a Western audience channel on youtube that exposed what sort of atrocities they were getting up to, do you think they would allow it?

I'm not sure what your comment about Saddam has to do with anything I said. Not sure what you were reaching for there.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Saddam used chemical weapons on civilian targets, he was in no way better than IS.

At least Sadam maintained some semblance of order. ISIS just rapes, pillages, and murders at random

 

[ICKE]

At least Sadam maintained some semblance of order. ISIS just rapes, pillages, and murders at random

A bit like Hussein's family. His son raped even Miss Iraq contestants and had one shred to pieces (covered in honey and thrown to dogs after she tried to resist). Who knows who many women died just in Uday's dungeons.

As opposed to what, 30,000 ISIS fighters doing it now?

ISIS would be worse in many ways, should they be able to gain control over the whole country. Hussein was a bastard though, just the Anfal campaign resulted in over 150 000 dead civilians. Then you have the Persian Gulf war and all the other atrocities.

 

[RustyNails]

A bit like Hussein's family. His son raped even Miss Iraq contestants and had one shred to pieces (covered in honey and thrown to dogs after she tried to resist).

As opposed to what, 30,000 ISIS fighters doing it now?

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Why the fuck don't we go and put these rabid dogs down once and for all.

Clean up the whole of the Middle East and don't stop until it's done.

Getting sick of seeing this shit every single day.

Well hello there 2003.

 

[ICKE]

Well hello there 2003.

Or "insert year" when USA(CIA) was involved in helping various XYZ lunatics in order to maintain some abstract objective within the Middle-East. The never ending story that keeps on giving.

 

[ISOM]

At least Sadam maintained some semblance of order. ISIS just rapes, pillages, and murders at random

Saddam, his sons, his bodyguards, connections, etc raped, pillaged, and mudered at random also. I am honestly tired of people pining for saddam even if he had order in Iraq. Replacing one evil with another is not a solution.

 

[BBboy20]

Are we comparing radical fundamentalists to dictators now?

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

I am going to puke. These people are like the barbarians you read in the history books, they will kill, rape and pillage anything that moves.