i wonder if the profitability was as good considering the amount of money it probably cost to develop comparatively.
It worked for Devil May Cry and Castlevania... why couldn't it work for Metal Gear?
- Thread starter FloatOn
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i wonder if the profitability was as good considering the amount of money it probably cost to develop comparatively.
There's no reason why it couldn't "work". Realistically I don't think it's an argument against anything based in logic. Franchises are never tied down to individual creators. The reason why people are falling on their swords and going into rage/depression/denial is because it just happens that one person was at the helm of this franchise for such a long time. It's been like 30 years. That's a long fucking time.
In a few years, if they're still making Metal Gear games, there'll be people playing them and enjoying them, and there will probably still be a bunch of people going "LOL Konami just keeps making it worse it's been downhill since Kojima left fuck this shit!". Just like every popular franchise out there. Some things never change.
Well said.
I never said "better" regarding the games in question. I said "worked". I loved the prior games, symphony of the night is probably my favorite game of all time but I kept an open mind and I enjoyed LoS for what it was.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
semiconscious
Member
saved me a post - thanks!...
30 years is indeed a long time. the kojima/mg tie is unprecedented in gaming. best of luck, konami - you'll need it
...
Demoskinos
Member
"It clearly didnt' work"
I dunno, I enjoyed both WAY more than the stuff that came before it in both cases. I'd gladly play Lords of Shadow or DmC over any of the previous entries in the series.
I dunno, I enjoyed both WAY more than the stuff that came before it in both cases. I'd gladly play Lords of Shadow or DmC over any of the previous entries in the series.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Opinions and all, but you must realize there's gotta be a reason neither of those franchises has a new game anywhere on the horizon after those changes yeah?
"Change" is such a nebulous word that is utterly meaningless in and of itself. The changes me and most of DMC-GAF want for a new DMC game would be more radical and more extensive than anything DmC did. DmC was an attempt at appealing to a bigger, Western audience by rebooting the story and series' aesthetic and tone to make it appeal more to Western teens than the more rounded fanbase vanilla DMC had. It also streamlined the controls, but that is something a new DMC game would have done anyway.
It failed to light up the sales charts, and the whole reboot turned out to be a failed experiment as the story turned out to be bad and people didn't take to the new direction. And now DMC4SE is coming out and a new DMC is in development, and we know it's not DmC2 because the notion was dismissed by Tameem himself.
In evaluating something like this, you need to take into account more than your own personal tastes.
And it's a shame, at least for DmC. LoS actually did get a sequel already.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
This. I understand that every game has its fans, and they are not wrong to like a game most others do not. But one can't deny that a game is officially dead when there are no future sequels planned in the pipeline. There will be at least one Konami Metal Gear game after V, but there is little hope it can survive much longer after.
Bill Rizer
Member
LOL Castlevania a.k.a. the Jankiest Game of All Times?
akidnamededdy
Banned
Yeah. I mean, for the record, as someone who's enjoyed the DMC series since the first demo that came with Code Veronica X, I liked DmC (even before the DE with all the changes specifically for franchise fans).
LoS did get a sequel, but that sequel effectively killed that subseries and, with the state Konami's in now, probably the franchise.
I played on PC and it was amazing.
MGS seems like a lot more personal work. Across many games, Kojima's sensibilities and ideologies are an omnipresent facet of Metal Gear's identity. It's hard to imagine losing Kojima without losing any of the identity that he lent.
Castlevania has had an inconsistent identity from moment it turned into a franchise and has gone through several major shifts since, and the Devil May Cry series doesn't really have anything it's intrinsically trying to "say" from one game to another other than "Look how cool Dante is."
Castlevania has had an inconsistent identity from moment it turned into a franchise and has gone through several major shifts since, and the Devil May Cry series doesn't really have anything it's intrinsically trying to "say" from one game to another other than "Look how cool Dante is."
MagnaderAlpha
Member
That's a good point. People toss around "change", but never really think what change means. Change can be good or bad depending on what it actually brings. The logical saying would be that people don't fear change, but fear what bad change can bring. The thing with a lot of modern "change"(even applied to "reboots, not just with games, but with the movie industry as well) is it's not really change to progressively make a formula better, rather than change to conform to whatever trend is popular. It's not a experiment to evolve a series to the best it can be(which I think SHOULD be the reason for "change"), rather than make it more accessible to a demographic that wasn't already a fan of said series.
AlfredX1990
Banned
First post nails it
The Metal Gear series has acted as an outlet for Kojima's weirdness. When I play Metal Gear, part of it is for that Kojima-ness.
Metal Gear can probably still be a good series without the man. There have been good Metal Gear games without him leading it, like Rising and Ac!d 2. But future games won't have the same sort of appeal, that's for sure, because he and this series is such an amazing unique thing, you won't see anything like it with someone else running it.
This "necessary to evolve" stuff is nonsense though. Each mainline Metal Gear Solid has been significantly different from the previous one both in terms of gameplay and also themes explored. It's not like the series has ever started to feel like it's coasting or has been getting repetitive like the late IGA Castlevania games or DMC4. MGS under Kojima has always felt super ambitious, always pushing boundaries, always surprising.
Metal Gear can probably still be a good series without the man. There have been good Metal Gear games without him leading it, like Rising and Ac!d 2. But future games won't have the same sort of appeal, that's for sure, because he and this series is such an amazing unique thing, you won't see anything like it with someone else running it.
This "necessary to evolve" stuff is nonsense though. Each mainline Metal Gear Solid has been significantly different from the previous one both in terms of gameplay and also themes explored. It's not like the series has ever started to feel like it's coasting or has been getting repetitive like the late IGA Castlevania games or DMC4. MGS under Kojima has always felt super ambitious, always pushing boundaries, always surprising.
Both of the examples used reached their peak of popularity, even GAF popularity, after the original director and team moved on. At best we're pointing to the replacement team and saying how much more we enjoyed them than the replacement replacement team.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I strongly disagree with your premise.
So do the sales.
So do the sales.
It was brought up a lot when DmC was first announced. Funnily enough, both MGS and DMC have changed more from iteration to iteration than most franchises usually do, and especially nowadays.
The most radical changes DmC brought was the story, the thing that was the least in need of fixing, the characters, setting and overall tone. Fixing the story in DMC from 4 and onward is probably the simplest thing about a new mainline game.
If OP wants an example of a successful reboot, he should look at MK9. It retold the story of MK 1-2-3, brought back most of the kast, and made MK a more in-depth 2D fighter overall. It's an example of a successful revamp as it took the series in a new direction, improved on the flaws, streamlined the experience compared to the past few titles, but still managed to satisfy the fanbase.
Edit: Actually, scratch that. The story of DmC isn't the most radical change. It's basically DMC1 mixed with DMC3. Nothing radical about that whatsoever, and certainly not a big change.
Robot Pants
Member
Yea it didn't work for either of them.
We've had about 3 too many metal gear games as it is. Just leave it alone.
We've had about 3 too many metal gear games as it is. Just leave it alone.
TheBlueBomber
Member
Jeez, I liked DmC and even I know this is wrong lol
Misterinenja
Member
Because Metal Gear is Kojima. I mean was.
Sigh.
Sigh.
Muppet of a Man
Member
It most certainly did NOT work for either of those 2; and it definitely won't work for the Metal Gear series.
E the Shaggy
Junior Member
This thread makes me sad.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
I can't tell if this is a troll or not
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Yeah, Ninja Theory needs to do MGS reboot.
Then more fanbase would know what it's like to have their very own DmC.
Then more fanbase would know what it's like to have their very own DmC.
skLaFarebear
Member
Metal Gear is doomed.
888
Member
I was surprisingly ok with DMC and the first castlevania game. Never played the second and I did complete mirror of fate which was no Symphony of the night.
I would be OK with MG getting a reboot and a new team at this point. Yeah the quirkiness that kojima brings was loved but to me it got a little long in the tooth.
I would be OK with MG getting a reboot and a new team at this point. Yeah the quirkiness that kojima brings was loved but to me it got a little long in the tooth.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Did it really work? DmC's sales were pretty bad, and Lords of Shadow 2 isn't really regarded as a good game.
Yeah, I'm sure the Metal Gear fanbase doesn't know how it feels when you suddenly don't play a completely different character then what you were expecting.
Yeah, I'm sure the Metal Gear fanbase doesn't know how it feels when you suddenly don't play a completely different character then what you were expecting.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Let's not forget we've had a Metal Gear game without Kojima involved (and that wasn't a remake) and it was an awful action game
skLaFarebear
Member
I'm just gonna pretend its not the game I think you're talking about and leave this thread.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
A better example would be Portable Ops.
If by awful you mean only in regards to the story. The gameplay was hella fun.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Now they get to experience the total bastardzation of a main character.
You misspelled awesome.
ShinMaruku
Member
Let's just say it worked for the others. Who at Konami do you trust to follow in the footsteps. Far more than Wester Development Eastern games are really a product of the creator. Now if you said DOA, I'd agree. DOA4 was shit. Shimabori did good work.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
If you don't retain your existing fanbase or find a new one, your franchise dies. What point exactly are you making?
Every sequel is a balancing act between retaining old fans and enticing new ones. If you're going to flat out say "old fans don't matter, fuck them", you'd better be damn well sure whatever you've cooked up hits a spark on the market.
Splinter Cell is good though. I don't think Konami has the talent to make Splinter Cell without KojiPro.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I will never understand the hate for DmC Dante.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Incoming "you people just hate change!"
