It worked for Devil May Cry and Castlevania... why couldn't it work for Metal Gear?

RealityExists said:
maybe.

but I couldn't even stomach MGS2. I heard good things about 3 and that 4 was basically just a long cutscene.
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Wait wait wait. You never played 3 nor 4 and couldn't stomach MGS2? And you think that you are going to be taking seriously in your comments regarding the franchise? What?
 
Nemmy said:
Sigh. I vaguely recall some IGN article that was bashing the old games because of its criminally outdated level design - because the levels were composed of rooms, and doors between rooms. DmC was automatically better because it had continuous, door-free levels.
Now sure, the "activate a door, enter the next area with a transition effect" thing feels old-timey when you go back to the old DMCs now, but to call a franchise stale because of minor things like this is absolutely laughable. And I have yet to see anyone explain how DMC was getting stale in actually meaningful aspects.
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I'm mostly thinking about how they approach enemy and level design. So far I've only heard people specifically complain about the story, and then nothing else specifically.
 
RealityExists said:
I was thinking about the whole Kojima/Konami situation this morning and granted I've never been a huge fan of MGS it does seem like a bad move for Konami to lose the father of Metal Gear but the more I think about it.... I think I may be warming up to the idea.

As the thread title suggests, there are instances where a change of hands could be for the better. After 4 mainline devil may cry games the formula became pretty stale imo so when DmC came it was a breath of fresh air. Same went for Castlevania, as much as I love metroidvania style games I was starting to get bored of the Iga games and so Lords of the Shadow came at just the right time.

I get that it bums the diehard fans out that have grown accustomed to a certain style of play or a certain style of writing from Kojima and his crew but sometimes a passing of the torch is necessary for fan favorite franchises to evolve. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that while the circumstances sound pretty bad, it may end up being for the best.
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Not really. None of the new match the quality of the old.
 
Vamphuntr said:
Is this for real? What's the context, that's rather offensive.
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It's for real. It's from a Ninja Theory presentation of the reboot that was basically bashing the old design as campy and not western and grounded.

Sesha said:
I'm mostly thinking about how they approach enemy and level design. So far I've only heard people specifically complain about the story, and then nothing else specifically.
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Mind elaborating on enemy design? I'm legitimately curious. I never really liked post-DMC1 enemies and encounters all that much myself.
The sad part is, I wouldn't mind DMC getting a reboot - especially if it meant going back to more DMC1-like style and design. But DmC was not what I want from the franchise at all.
 
RealityExists said:
maybe.

but I couldn't even stomach MGS2. I heard good things about 3 and that 4 was basically just a long cutscene.
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.........so someone that has no interest in the series is now thinking it might turn out to be a good thing.............what in the fuck.

Reality Exists, but I don't know if your living in it. Especially with Castlevania and DmC as examples.
 
Nemmy said:
It's for real. It's from a Ninja Theory presentation of the reboot that was basically bashing the old design as campy and not western and grounded.
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Wow. Using what I believe is Brokeback Mountains to thrash the original vision of a series you are working from. There was no fuss over this?
 
Nemmy said:
It's for real. It's from a Ninja Theory presentation of the reboot that was basically bashing the old design as campy and not western and grounded.



Mind elaborating on enemy design? I'm legitimately curious. I never really liked post-DMC1 enemies and encounters all that much myself.
The sad part is, I wouldn't mind DMC getting a reboot - especially if it meant going back to more DMC1-like style and design. But DmC was not what I want from the franchise at all.
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Im not sure a reboot is necessary even for those things, DMC 1 was the way it is because it started as a RE game and was handled by Kamiya and his team, another reboot would only complicate things further.
 
Vamphuntr said:
Wow. Using what I believe is Brokeback Mountains to thrash the original vision of a series you are working from. There was no fuss over this?
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The weird thing is that they were comparing DMC Dante to the images at the side/backdrop so DmC should be like that movie.
 
It didn't OP...

Ninja theory failed to capture the spirit of DmC and instead made a shell of the game with Bizarro Dante.

because of this i can imagine DMC 5 is going to see an announcement soon.

Castlevania on the otherhand has been on a downturn but Lords of Shadow was a worthy entry... but it's sequel was a hot mess of a game and it's a clear rip off of devil may cry & god of war.


overall... both series need serious rethinking and new developers wont help. If anything it serves Konami better to spin up a new studio full of MGS veterans to create a new series in the metal gear universe letting solid v be the last of the solid titles... but if they hand it off to some third party... i can only smell the disaster there.
 
Vamphuntr said:
Wow. Using what I believe is Brokeback Mountains to thrash the original vision of a series you are working from. There was no fuss over this?
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For all of the Gaming Press' cheerleading for DmC & Ninja Theory they didn't pay much attention to it/them after its release & when you point out any of their bullshit it gets ignored.
 
Sub Boss said:
Im not sure a reboot is necessary even for those things, DMC 1 was the way it is because it started as a RE game and was handled by Kamiya and his team, another reboot would only complicate things further.
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I don't think a DMC reboot ever was necessary, or that it is now. But I wouldn't be upset over it, either, assuming the resulting game still belonged with the series.
 
Sorry but DmC was an awesome game and a huge improvement over 4 imo.

Castlevania....not so much. I miss those sidescrollers.
 
The only thing I know about Lords of Shadow is that my level design teacher used it as an example of bad level design in class.
 
Hey OP has the general reaction in this thread, DmC's lackluster sales, or the fact that I'm never buying another MGS game ever again helped you realize that you kinda dun fucked up?

The new MGS will be godawful, it won't do well, Konami is prob over gaming wise. Please just accept that, it'll make things easier for you in the long run.
 
Comfort Jones said:
I could not disagree any less that it fucking "worked".

Especially for DmC. FFS man.

dante2.jpg


Yeah thanks for that one Capcom. I'm sure your fans and people working under you feel like they're being treated with respect.
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Never heard about it. Disgusting from Ninja Theory, honestly.
 
Really all I have left to say is I find it a little offensive that you basically want people to respect the idea that basically any ip is just a shallow shell that can be milked endlessly completely regardless of who is working on it or the original creator's intent.

Hell you're even listing the new Castlevania games as an example of "doing it right". Yeah, does it so right that is literally has none of the appeal the old games had for the actual fans, so what the fuck is the point? Oh, right, lack of creativity and desperately banking on brand recognition rather than making a new ip, yeah that sounds like a healthy standard.

The amazing thing is within Konami's own ip's there are so many damn corpses from Silent Hill to Castlevania yet there are still people who will try to defend this crap.
 
What terrible examples. While Castlevania worked once, the sequel and the spinoff both bombed and the franchise is dead. And DmC bombed as well. Like it eventually recover as DmC goes, but the franchise itself is pretty screwed now.
 
Okay, I thought you were gonna say that DMC3 > DMC1 (kamiya the OG director only worked on the first DMC)

But you're actually trying to say DmC "worked out". LOL.
 
People like to harp on about MGS being a movie, but the gameplay has always had an incredible amount of depth and detail, something that will definitely be weaker in future Kojima-less games.
 
Hmmm... Kirby has been great even though Sakurai hasn't been involved in ages. Street Fighter, too. I'm not sure about other examples, but I think don't think a series is necessarily doomed after the departure of its creator.
 
Well, like your examples, I will judge whatever new Metal Gear that comes out on its own merits. Most people should, but won't.
 
I didn't realize there was such a strong outcry against DmC. Sad. I thought once it came out people sort of flipped on the original backlash. I still really enjoy it.
 
Branson said:
I didn't realize there was such a strong outcry against DmC. Sad. I thought once it came out people sort of flipped on the original backlash. I still really enjoy it.
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It's also pretty sad how you probably think the backlash is due solely to the visual design when there are a number of very real, very valid gameplay issues that have been recognized by NT themselves as problems.
 
i agree with you for DMC since i like the direction of Itsuno but Castlevania? LoS is shit, i don't get why people love the first one because it's boring as fuck
 
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