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[Gurgelhals]

Isn't the decision of whether to go for a caretaker government or to call early elections basically up to the President? IIRC, I've read somewhere that they cannot hold early elections because the voting system is in a legal limbo at the moment. Italian politics sure are a mess (but from that perspective the result of the referendum is actually kinda business as usual...).

 

[Nikodemos]

From what I have learned, a lot of Renzi's supporters may have voted No fearing that added centralised power would aid Grillo + co - by voting as such they may have done just that.

Frankly, that's... painfully stupid.

 

[SamVimes]

For the people saying this has nothing to do with brexit...Salvini is already on tv saying this is a victory of the people against the global establishment, bankers, journalists.

Salvini is a piece of shit that will say anything is a victory against that. I think the tones of the campaign were similar to those of Brexit, but what we voted on didn't have anything to do with that.

 

[ClosingADoor]

For the people saying this has nothing to do with brexit...Salvini is already on tv saying this is a victory of the people against the global establishment, bankers, journalists.

They're also going with the whole "don't trust the media" crap in Italy? Dangerous move sweeping the world at the moment with that.

 

[PantsuJo]

Man, such shitty 2016.

Must be the sadness and forgive me if I'll appear brutal but...

I am not afraid to say: I fucking hate my country.

 

[Sickboy007]

Isn't the decision of whether to go for a caretaker government or to call early elections basically up to the President? IIRC, I've read somewhere that they cannot hold early elections because the voting system is in a legal limbo at the moment. Italian politics sure are a mess (but from that perspective the result of the referendum is actually kinda business as usual...).

They could call early elections but the Senate and the Chamber would be voted in with wildly different laws, leading to the kind of stalemate that this very reform was supposed to avoid.

 

[Jezbollah]

Man, such shitty 2016.

Must be the sadness and forgive me if I'll appear brutal but...

I am not afraid to say: I fucking hate my country.

You need no forgiveness. A lot of us have been saying that this year :/

 

[johancruijff]

For the people saying this has nothing to do with brexit...Salvini is already on tv saying this is a victory of the people against the global establishment, bankers, journalists.

yup

lingo is the same

non-voted bureaucrats, financial powers, pseudo experts etcetc

 

[Sickboy007]

They're also going with the whole "don't trust the media" crap in Italy? Dangerous move sweeping the world at the moment with that.

Buzzfeed - Italy’s Most Popular Political Party Is Leading Europe In Fake News And Kremlin Propaganda

Great article about it, many don't realise how opaque the 5 Star Movement really is. And Salvini is openly best buddies with Putin as well.

 

[PantsuJo]

You need no forgiveness. A lot of us have been saying that this year :/

And also I blame region where I live (South Italy) because a lot of people doesn't go to vote, I can't fucking understand why. Fucking why?

Every time this country tries to go a step forward it ends to make 3 steps back, failing every social-political improvement.

I'm sad

 

[oti]

Results will come in here: http://elezioni.interno.it/referendum/scrutini/20161204/FX01000.htm

No in the lead.

 

[TheKingOfPain]

I voted No considering the reform was a piece of crap.
Nobody can force PDiot number 1(Renzi)to leave, and even if he does he'll place a puppet of his to replace him(he'also the secretary of his party).
And btw, I want to spend a word on how miserable was the Financial Times attempt to sway voters against No saying that without the reform 8 banks are going to go bankrupt(it's happening anyway).

 

[Tugatrix]

Remember that episode of Black Mirror? yeah it's becoming real. Where did this Beppe Grillo came from exactly

 

[Eylos]

Buzzfeed - Italy’s Most Popular Political Party Is Leading Europe In Fake News And Kremlin Propaganda

Great article about it, many don't realise how opaque the 5 Star Movement really is. And Salvini is openly best buddies with Putin as well.

Its incredible how the far right in all the history, recur to the "corrupt govermnent" argument.

And i know little but already hate this Grillo.

 

[Sickboy007]

I voted No considering the reform was a piece of crap.
Nobody can force PDiot number 1(Renzi)to leave, and even if he does he'll place a puppet of his to replace him(he'also the secretary of his party).
And btw, I want to spend a word on how miserable was the Financial Times attempt to sway voters against No saying that without the reform 8 banks are going to go bankrupt(it's happening anyway).

You're the puppet (cit.)!

 

[Nikodemos]

Its incredible how the far right in all the history, recur to the "corrupt govermnent" argument.

And i know little but already hate this Grillo.

He was just an entertaining buffoon who occassionally got it right - broken-clock-style - but he got on dat Volodya gravy train and turned dangerous some time circa 2014.

 

[Nelo Ice]

So Italy is about join the US and UK in the we fucked up train?. At least Austria didn't make me even more depressed today.

 

[SamVimes]

I voted No considering the reform was a piece of crap.
Nobody can force PDiot number 1(Renzi)to leave, and even if he does he'll place a puppet of his to replace him(he'also the secretary of his party).
And btw, I want to spend a word on how miserable was the Financial Times attempt to sway voters against No saying that without the reform 8 banks are going to go bankrupt(it's happening anyway).

Oh, we got one of those.

 

[SliChillax]

I just moved to Italy lol hopefully nothing bad will come out of this

 

[Sickboy007]

If Putin doesn't win Person of the Year Jill Stein should demand a recount.

 

[PantsuJo]

Its incredible how the far right in all the history, recur to the "corrupt govermnent" argument.

And i know little but already hate this Grillo.

Grillo, Salvini and the axis Salvini-Berlusconi are like "The Army of Evil" for this countrym trust me.

Ignorant, bigots, without any sense of what the real country problems are.
Fucking voices of populism.

I voted No considering the reform was a piece of crap.
Nobody can force PDiot number 1(Renzi)to leave, and even if he does he'll place a puppet of his to replace him(he'also the secretary of his party).
And btw, I want to spend a word on how miserable was the Financial Times attempt to sway voters against No saying that without the reform 8 banks are going to go bankrupt(it's happening anyway).

Yeah, I'm sure the country will be also grateful with you for saving the jobs of hundreds of corrupted senators and inefficient burocrats.

But, hey, I can't blame you alone: there is like 55% of Italian citiziens full of hate but without any will to change this country, happy to enjoy this shitty state of things.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Buzzfeed - Italy’s Most Popular Political Party Is Leading Europe In Fake News And Kremlin Propaganda

Great article about it, many don't realise how opaque the 5 Star Movement really is. And Salvini is openly best buddies with Putin as well.

Well, that's just nice... The EU is in for a bumpy ride again.

 

[Playsage]

I voted No considering the reform was a piece of crap.
Nobody can force PDiot number 1(Renzi)to leave, and even if he does he'll place a puppet of his to replace him(he'also the secretary of his party).
And btw, I want to spend a word on how miserable was the Financial Times attempt to sway voters against No saying that without the reform 8 banks are going to go bankrupt(it's happening anyway).

Sigh, I have to endure the sight of these idioms even on GAF...

 

[Reorx]

I'm not happy with Renzi, but right now there is no decent successor in line

 

[Xando]

So incase of a new election. How are polls looking? Are we gonna have PM grillo pulling the eurozone down?

 

[Sickboy007]

So incase of a new election. How are polls looking? Are we gonna have PM grillo pulling the eurozone down!

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[oti]

So Italy is about join the US and UK in the we fucked up train?. At least Austria didn't make me even more depressed today.

I mean, this wasn't a Brexit "are you stupid or not" vote. Renzi wanted to push through changes to the Constitution that could be abused by government.

60/40 for No holy moly.

 

[johancruijff]

I voted No considering the reform was a piece of crap.
Nobody can force PDiot number 1(Renzi)to leave, and even if he does he'll place a puppet of his to replace him(he'also the secretary of his party).
And btw, I want to spend a word on how miserable was the Financial Times attempt to sway voters against No saying that without the reform 8 banks are going to go bankrupt(it's happening anyway).

 

[UrbanRats]

If Putin doesn't win Person of the Year Jill Stein should demand a recount.

For real.
The man is playing the world like a fiddle.

 

[DarkCronos]

So incase of a new election. How are polls looking? Are we gonna have PM grillo pulling the eurozone down?

the real issue is that Italy is currently without a functional electoral law. We would probably go to vote with a pure proportional system, and with the current sistuation it would be:

30% PD
30% M5S
30% Right - Center-Right coalition
10% minor parties

and nobody would be able to form a government

 

[Sickboy007]

For real.
The man is playing the world like a fiddle.

Amazing how good he is at geopolitics and how shitty he is at actually running his country. KGB true and through.

 

[Vampirolol]

As that guy said on LA7, Renzi isn't that good at winning but he is damn good at losing. Left party isn't going anywhere without him. Hyped for the next election, Vote for Waldo is almost reality! Eh...

 

[TheKingOfPain]

How nice of you guya, thanks for your attentions

So incase of a new election. How are polls looking? Are we gonna have PM grillo pulling the eurozone down?

Nobody's going anywhere. They need to end the 5 years mandate in order to have the right to their life annuity.

 

[Jackpot]

The content of the referendum question really isn't as clear cut a decision as Brexit and Trump. You can dislike the opposition and still think the reform is bad, and it can have very long-lasting repercussions.

It's just that Renzi decided to pin his government on the outcome and the right-wing parties accurately realised they could turn it into a soft general election.

 

[popo]

So any idea what time we should expect an official result, or at least strong indication? Still midnight?

Thx

 

[Gurgelhals]

So Italy is about join the US and UK in the we fucked up train?. At least Austria didn't make me even more depressed today.

To be honest, I'm not that worried about the situation in Italy simply because, in contrast to the US and the UK, politics have always been a mess there (remember: close to 70 different cabinets since World War II and, ironically, it was Proto-Donald Trump Silvio Berlusconi who managed to have one of the longest tenures as Prime Minister; it kinda says everything that you need to know about Italian politics).

If Renzi resigns, it would mainly be annoying because him being not particularly great but at least a halfway decent politician has actually been a much needed exception to the rule. So now it's just back to the same old mess. It's not nearly on the level of the Trump- and Brexit-situations in the US and the UK respectively.

 

[Tugatrix]

the real issue is that Italy is currently without a functional electoral law. We would probably go to vote with a pure proportional system, and with the current sistuation it would be:

30% PD
30% M5S
30% Right - Center-Right coalition
10% minor parties

and nobody would be able to form a government

Couldn't they form alliances? that end up working in Portugal and Spain. Still jesus if those numbers are correct. M5S is a bit rightwingish, right? how likely would it be a alliance between them?

 

[Vampirolol]

To be honest, I'm not that worried about the situation in Italy simply because, in contrast to the US and the UK, politics have always been a mess there (remember: close to 70 different cabinets since World War II and, ironically, it was Proto-Donald Trump Silvio Berlusconi who managed to have one of the longest tenures as Prime Minister; it kinda says everything that you need to know about Italian politics).

If Renzi resigns, it would mainly be annoying because him being not particularly great but at least a halfway decent politician has actually been a much needed exception to the rule. So now it's just back to the same old mess. It's not nearly on the level of the Trump- and Brexit-situations in the US and the UK respectively.

Yeah I mean, I was born in 1990, I'm accustomed to bad politics in Italy. I know we are always capable of doing worse, so whatever.

Couldn't they form alliances? that end up working in Portugal and Spain. Still jesus if those numbers are correct. M5S is a bit rightwingish, right? how likely would it be a alliance between them?

They are right and far-right wing. They always said that they would never do an alliance with any party but maybe... you know... they could definitely end up being buddies with part of the right coalition. Ora just wait for Italy to blow up and then have like 45% alone. Yep, we're fucked.

 

[norinrad]

I was rooting for Renzi, seemed like the right guy to kick in the proper reforms for the Italian economy.

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

There's about 0.0001% chance Italy will leave the EU any time soon. I don't really understand why this referendum is being likened to Brexit, Trump and whatnot, this is mostly a matter of internal politics. Sure, this will likely bring about a government crisis, but those are as frequent as Trump saying 'terrific' in Italy.

Personally, as an Italian living abroad, I didn't vote cause they had my old UK address in their recordings, so yea. Would have voted yes, mostly cause the alternatives to Renzi are looking horrible. But hey, it's nice not to have lost for once, growing up in Berlusconi's Italy was though. Sure I could have chosen a better country to emigrate to than the UK from that point of view, the likes of May, Cameron and Farage really made re-evaluate the whole Italian political class. I'd take Silvio and his antics over those evil morons any day of the week.

 

[SamVimes]

First projections 59-41 in favor of no.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Not really surprised about the likely result, given the country and year in question. At this rate, Italy will probably be jumping on the dumbass train with the UK and the US. Not that I have much expectations with Italian politics to begin with, but I would at least hope that this isn't a sign of my country fucking itself over with the same crowbar that America and Britain used.

 

[TheKingOfPain]

The content of the referendum question really isn't as clear cut a decision as Brexit and Trump. You can dislike the opposition and still think the reform is bad, and it can have very long-lasting repercussions.

It's just that Renzi decided to pin his government on the outcome and the right-wing parties accurately realised they could turn it into a soft general election.

Somebody understands, thank goodness. The fact is, nobody's going to ask for a vote of confidence if the No wins (the Parliament formulated the reform, not the Govmnt), the President of the Republic already said he won't dissolute the parliament (he's the only one who can do it).

I speak for myself, I voted No because I really think the reform would be a disgrace for our Constitution, I really don't care if somebody as ignorant as Salvini gloats for a No win.

 

[Vampirolol]

Not really surprised about the likely result, given the country and year in question. At this rate, Italy will probably be jumping on the dumbass train with the UK and the US. Not that I have much expectations with Italian politics to begin with, but I would at least hope that this isn't a sign of my country fucking itself over with the same crowbar that America and Britain used.

We invented fascism. People are nostalgic about fucking Mussolini. Our country is like 70% old people. We can do much worse than US and UK.

 

[Gurgelhals]

Couldn't they form alliances? that end up working in Portugal and Spain. Still jesus if those numbers are correct. M5S is a bit rightwingish, right? how likely would it be a alliance between them?

M5S is not really rightwing, more like a chaotic anti-politics / anti-establishment / anti-everything-that-goes-through-Grillo's-head-at-the-moment movement, which does not really conform to the traditional left/right dichotomy (they kinda remind me of the various Pirate Parties that had popped up in several European countries a few years back). As such, they'd be neither capable nor willing to go into a coalition with other parties. For that matter, they'd not be capable of governing at all if you ask me. A hypothetical M5S-led government would probably only last a few months, tops.

 

[SamVimes]

Interesting how m5s was against old politics and then 100% played politics destroying civil unions in the process, I really enjoyed that.

 

[His Majesty]

Is 5SM really far-right? Wikipedia describes them as syncretic.

 

[UrbanRats]

There's about 0.0001% chance Italy will leave the EU any time soon. I don't really understand why this referendum is being likened to Brexit, Trump and whatnot, this is mostly a matter of internal politics. Sure, this will likely bring about a government crisis, but those are as frequent as Trump saying 'terrific' in Italy.

As it has been said, mainly because of how the campaigning for it has been pushed away from the issue itself, and into the realm of it being a soft election.
It's not nearly as devastating (nor clear cut obvious what the right choice is) as Brexit, though.

As for the bolded, well i'm fed up with this sort of bullshit.
Honestly no one is ever going to be good enough, i'm not saying Renzi was a the perfect PM at all, but if you're waiting for that magical perfect leader to come by, you'll be waiting forever.
Meanwhile people are willing to believe people like Salvini and Grillo, which is frankly astounding.

Then again it's probably the same people who thought that "Signora Gina" trash was great stuff.

 

[cm osi]

Remember that episode of Black Mirror? yeah it's becoming real. Where did this Beppe Grillo came from exactly

crack parmalat

 

[Nelo Ice]

To be honest, I'm not that worried about the situation in Italy simply because, in contrast to the US and the UK, politics have always been a mess there (remember: close to 70 different cabinets since World War II and, ironically, it was Proto-Donald Trump Silvio Berlusconi who managed to have one of the longest tenures as Prime Minister; it kinda says everything that you need to know about Italian politics).

If Renzi resigns, it would mainly be annoying because him being not particularly great but at least a halfway decent politician has actually been a much needed exception to the rule. So now it's just back to the same old mess. It's not nearly on the level of the Trump- and Brexit-situations in the US and the UK respectively.

I mean, this wasn't a Brexit "are you stupid or not" vote. Renzi wanted to push through changes to the Constitution that could be abused by government.

60/40 for No holy moly.

Well sounds like I don't have to panic about the EU crumbling and galling to the far right. I'm already in panic and meltdown mode with Trump. I was about to be even more depressed if the EU was going to join us in on the stupid train.