Papa
Banned
Not just the history of humanity. It’s the history of nature itself.
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Italy refuses port entry of migrant filled ship, Malta also nopes out
- Thread starter bucyou
- Start date
Not just the history of humanity. It’s the history of nature itself.
Papa
Banned
Also not white and am the son of refugees who fled a communist regime.
Joe T.
Member
What racial code are you referring to, exactly? I'm genuinely curious and I'm now wondering why you're not calling it out in specific terms rather than tossing around a blanket statement. The former might lead to a productive conversation while the latter serves to do the complete opposite.
CampbellzSoup
Member
Ironically the only one referencing race is him, the racist.
Papa
Banned
That is what happens when you incorrectly see race and culture as interchangeable. Race is biologically evolved; culture is socially evolved via memes (the Dawkins kind, not the dank kind). Culture is being discussed in this thread, not race.
theignoramus
Member
Because it's transparently a topic of discussion in this thread, despite disingenuous efforts to claim otherwise.
Do you think you're fooling anyone reading this thread?
I almost prefer yall on reddit and 4chan, where you speak plainly and forthrightly about where you're coming from.
theignoramus
Member
I stopped reading at the post that described 19th century European immigrants to America (the disease-ridden, criminally enterprising, lower class folks that flooded in and met extreme prejudice from nativist Americans) as a superior class of immigrant to the African migrants coming into Europe today.
The intellectually dishonest posters will try to claim that post was about cultural differences, but even a fucking idiot could perceive the racial code attached to it.
edit:
also, i dont believe you asked this question in good faith, just like the majority of the responses to my original post, so I'll leave you all to your winks and dog whistles.
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Papa
Banned
Copy and paste the specific racial code. I’m open to your opinion, despite you passively aggressively labelling me intellectually dishonest for pointing out something you know is true. Your mental gymnastics and conditioning enable you to dismiss it without critical thought though.
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JordanN
Banned
Theignoramous completely ducked out when I asked him what white nationalist meant. Don't fall for the bait when users start spamming racist/sexists, but run away when challenged on it.
It's the usual "hit & run" tactic of making you look bad when they started it first.
It's the usual "hit & run" tactic of making you look bad when they started it first.
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Papa
Banned
The only thing he got right was his name.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
Don’t you mean that only an ignoramus can detect the racial code attached to it?
Saying that western civilization has brought about a global increase in prosperity and freedom is not a racist statement. It is an undeniable truth. Yes, not everything along the path has been perfect.
There was no social safety net for immigrants into the US in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. They were coming to start a new life in a country using their skills and were willing to adapt to their new host country. They came and learned English if it wasn’t a native language for them. They worked hard, built our cities and settled the Midwest and West. They assimilated to the local culture and customs and helped to foster the American identity that was a patchwork of pan-European cultures bound by the ideals that America was founded on. Their sons and grandsons risked their lives in two world wars to usher in an age of prosperity and technological innovation like the world had never seen before. These “disease-ridden, criminally enterprising, lower class folks” set the stage to make the US the global superpower it is today, through their hard work and sacrifice.
The current batch of immigrants into Europe are looking for a handout. They expect to be taken care of and have no intention of becoming Europeans. Few want to integrate into society at large.
this is just wrong . Germany for example has already 30% migrants. The problem are the huge cultural differences and the lack of education. People just would come here. And then had no chance at all at a job or good life. We already have huge housing education etc problems that will not get better if we take more people in who can not even get work.
Enosh
Member
you can still experience the local culture by visit some the rural places
cities otoh, doesn't matter if you visit Paris, London or Berlin, it's all the same, those places have no national identity left
as seen here, immigration isn't about helping people, it's about revenge and about punishing whites, always remember that the left hates you and wants you dead
theignoramus
Member
So I'm the racebaiter, but this poster whitewashing American history and leaving out the massive contributions by non-White/non Euro groups to American culture, technology, economic power, and innovation is just "facts", right?
This is PRECISELY what I was speaking about before and why I called out the intellectual fraud of everyone pretending like White nationalism wasnt hanging over this thread like a heavy raincloud.
You can call me an ignoramus all you want, I'm not the one writing revisionist history of the United States of America, YOU ARE.
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theignoramus
Member
I'm not running anywhere, I'm just not interested in a circular argument with a person (you) who has every intention of arguing in bad faith.Theignoramous completely ducked out when I asked him what white nationalist meant. Don't fall for the bait when users start spamming racist/sexists, but run away when challenged on it.
It's the usual "hit & run" tactic of making you look bad when they started it first.
theignoramus
Member
Nobody challenged him on that post and it was made yesterday. It was liked by several people. It was in line with the tone of the thread that I was originally objecting too. Though I'll admit that this particular poster is more flagrant with the White nationalist callouts.
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iBuzzati
Member
Since this thread is about Italy, I'm assuming you're implying Italians owe reparations to Africans (or "payback", as you call it)? Can you elaborate on how Italy is responsible for modern disparities between Europeans and Africans from colonialism? Are you referring to a failed excursion in Ethiopia (in which reparations were doled out after WWII) or what? Further, can you elaborate on how Africans who conquered, brutalized, raped, and enslaved the Italic people (and Spanish, Portuguese, and French) for 400 years are the ones that owe Africans reparations? Beyond that, the current migration into Italy (and neighboring states) have proven to be a huge detriment to an ailing country and contributed to political instability, insofar as the Italian people are voting in far-right populists at the behest of heeding the urgent issues caused by African migration - that is, instability caused by African migratory invasion again.
I just want to know what frame of mind you're in to possible think that YOU are the one who is owed reparations. 25 years ago, Rome was pristine. Now it looks like a dump, and I'm sorry if it sounds uncouth but it's not the Italians who made it so. Your version of "payback" is an indignity that Western Civilization ought to avoid at all costs.
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Cybrwzrd
Banned
Where did the political, economic, and moral philosophy that served as the impetus for the US’s ascendancy to global power come from?
Do you disagree that those systems had a huge role in guiding cultural growth here?
theignoramus
Member
It's not like actual trash littering city streets is unheard of in that country and that problem has fuck all to do with immigrants. Sorry to sound uncouth.
Mafia, toxic waste and a deadly cover up in an Italian paradise: 'They've poisoned our land and stolen our children'
You know what I love about you White nationalists? Your centuries old tendency to blame your problems on anyone who doesnt look like you.
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theignoramus
Member
Do I really have to teach you US history 101?
The US became an emerging global power in the 19th century largely due to the cotton industry, because of the huge economic benefits of FREE LABOR of Black American slaves.
The moral philosophy you speak of is a combination of the Constitution written by the (European) Founding Fathers but the subsequent amendments to it and its application to ALL AMERICANS, regardless of race, gender, or creed came about through a multi-racial effort, spearheaded by Black & White Americans.
American culture? Motherfucker, even when White America was in the throes of minstrel show enjoyment, it was still appropriating Black American culture for its own use.
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iBuzzati
Member
Why are you calling me a white nationalist? I'm from Southern Italy and probably have Berber blood - so please spare me, and please don't lecture me about my home -- I'm not talking about "toxic waste". I'm talking about indolent migrants literally laying down in the middle of the streets, spitting and sometimes pissing all over the ground (yes I've seen this) at the very worst, and throwing garbage around, loudly and forcefully vending trash wares to scared tourists and getting into fights. I'm not going to mince words: this is supposed to be a beautiful preserved city, and they are making it look like absolute shit. This is all visible and not anything like the clandestine operations that you posted about the mafia, as if you know *anything* about my home from googling some article that grants you the satisfaction of pretending you're informed. I'm complaining about what is visible to the naked eye, not organized crime behind closed doors. I routinely travel between the US and Italy and it's drastically transformed in the past 10 years.
This is a REAL problem over here, do you understand? Not everything is about racism. This is not about genetics or white nationalism or anything like that. It's about unending waves of people who meet headfirst with a culture that they have no experience with or respect.
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theignoramus
Member
Funny you mention 'garbage". I was talking about literal garbage too and it seems like it's highly visible to the naked eye. (if not the eye, then apparent to one's nose)
Rome told to sort out rubbish crisis or face EU sanctions
I feel like I can make an educated guess that these migrants you speak arent really responsible for the garbage disposal woes of Rome.
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Phoenix RISING
Banned
Japan is on pace to literally go extinct because of its nationalist lean. Can't even replace it's own population.
Culture in America is not monolithic, so when one speaks of nationalism, they are ostensibly talking about the white imaginary.
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iBuzzati
Member
The migrants laying and going to the bathroom on the streets, living in ghettos, and hiding with expired residency permits, throwing their trash around all day, are why the garbage is piling up. As I said, 25 years ago the place was pristine. It has never been this bad, at least not since anyone can recall. It took 3000 years for Italians to trash their own capital city?
Cybrwzrd
Banned
Wow.
You do know that the US didn’t even become a superpower until the 1950s right?
The north (the part of the country of the US without slavery) was the region that industrialized, hence their ability to end slavery in the south during the Civil War. Even then, we were a minor player compared to places like Great Britain.
Decimating the southern cotton industry by ending slavery and the wanton distruction of southern agriculture didn’t impede our ability to grow as a nation.
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theignoramus
Member
I said it became an emerging global power (economically and militarily) in the 19th century, (which is factually correct) not a "superpower".
Deliberately misquote me again and I will block you.
theignoramus
Member
I told you dont fuck with me on this point, but you persist.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0131_030203_jubilee2_2.html
So no, you dont get to play your ahistorical games with me pal.
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CampbellzSoup
Member
Cybrwzrd
Banned
What’s your point? That the north wouldn’t have industrialized, given its natural resources without the south? Even though the industrial revolution was also ramping up at that time in Europe?
You still haven’t addressed any of my points in a meaningful way.
Do you really think the north would have fought to end slavery if western culture is as awful as you believe if the south and it’s “peculiar institution” was that important economically to the growth of the US? Let alone lose 360,000+ soldiers from their side alone to do so?
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JordanN
Banned
Where did this "bad faith" thing come from? It's not an argument.
"I don't want my home to filled up with homeless people and people I don't know."
"Wow, that's bad faith and white nationalism. You have no rights to your house because my feelings said so."
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Joe T.
Member
Intellectually dishonest, good faith, dog whistles... checking off all those boxes while also resorting to insults. As much as you want to believe it wasn't in good faith, I can assure you that I have no desire to spend any time trolling strangers online. Ok, that's a lie, I do on occasion and this wasn't one of those occasions nor is this the platform for it. I am, however, interested in understanding the points of view that may or may not align with my own - neither of us have really delved into this topic much, at least not yet.
To expand on that, and getting back to the topic at hand, I have no trouble understanding the sentiments on display in the story that kicked this thread off or some of the responses to it because my family comes from that southern portion of Italy (Calabria, specifically) and I've spent a few months there myself (decades ago, unfortunately). I also happen to be a first generation Canadian living in Montreal, where we've been dealing with a migrant crisis of our own the last couple of years, sometimes dealing with upwards of 500 illegal/undocumented/insert-your-preferred-term-here border crossings a day. Some stay right here in Montreal, some get sent back to their country of origin, the majority apparently wind up settling in other parts of Canada, but the federal government has refused to help pay for the costs associated with adequately dealing with all those migrants.
We don't live in a Utopian society, obviously, and it's undoubtedly safe to say that a sizable percentage of the population doesn't live comfortably - paycheck to paycheck, large debts, crime and other worries of that nature - so when you start siphoning hundreds of millions of their taxpayer dollars to help migrants that, in large part, don't even settle in the province/state/country you can imagine why some of the locals might not line up to welcome them at the border with open arms and lavish parties. That's without even taking the migrants' into consideration - it's not their fault if the local governments haven't met the needs of their citizens, but to continue down that path, if the governments haven't met the needs of their people you can surely see why spending large sums of money dealing with migrants could prove to be a public relations disaster, one that could remove those governments from power.
Some people have been in favor of globalism for a long time, open borders and all, and yet decades later they apparently still haven't figured out that to play on a global stage requires implementing global laws, immigration and taxation among them. What good is globalism to me if some of the biggest employers and taxpayers are using the world stage to evade taxes and to hire thousands of workers in third world conditions? It needs work, a LOT of it, though it's not something I see playing out over the course of my lifetime considering the pace at which this has been moving.
JordanN
Banned
I really doubt Japan will go extinct. They're the 3rd richest country on earth with amazing architecture spread throughout history.
Being nationalist means they want their descendants to inherit everything that they built.
How they'll do that is up in the air, but simply just going complete mass immigration and demographic replacement is a short sighted solution.
Phoenix RISING said:
Again, this idea stems from the weird belief that only Europeans can't be a culture/race but everyone else can.
I can keep posting statistics. Do you deny that Whites were not the majority in nearly all major U.S cities prior to 1960?
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theignoramus
Member
More historical ignorance from you. The North didnt start fighting to "end slavery" they FOUGHT TO PRESERVE THE UNION. THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION came over a year after the first shots fired in that conflict.
STOP LYING.
STOP DISTORTING MY COMMENTS.
STOP BEING IGNORANT ABOUT AMERICAN HISTORY.
I have no interest in educating anyone who displays such lack of intellectual rigor/curiosity on the subjects they speak about.
I cant engage you anymore, because I refuse to be your tutor on this subject.
And quit fucking putting words in my mouth. I said nothing about "western culture" being "awful", I simply rejected your false, misleading and ignorant characterisation of America as the cultural, economic, and intellectual product of White immigrants from Europe.
That you perceived that as some sort of assertion on my part that western culture is "awful" is yet another affirmation of your silly, tribal mindset.
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theignoramus
Member
A comment of mine was deleted by a mod, (I accept it) but here we have a poster who cant even get elementary facts about the Civil War right as he proceeds to lecture me about what I dont understand about America.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
Wait, hold on. You really think the Civil War wasn’t fought to end slavery? The entire reasoning for the south to secede was because they were afraid that the northern states were working to end slavery- which they were by trying to end its expansion and had been for many years- hence why it was abolished in most of them, and the election of Lincoln pushed the south to declare a war to protect their interests. Which was “states rights” to have slaves.
You mention that the emancipation proclimation came during the war. Within a month of Lincoln taking office, the country was at civil war. Ending slavery flat out, in the midst of conflict took time, and there had to be enough momentum to make such a proclimation. If he did it sooner it could have further fractionalized the border states, and they weren’t solidly under union control at first.
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Phoenix RISING
Banned
I really doubt Japan will go extinct. They're the 3rd richest country on earth with amazing architecture spread throughout history.
Being nationalist means they want their descendants to inherit everything that they built.
How they'll do that is up in the air, but simply just going complete mass immigration and demographic replacement is a short sighted solution.
Again, this idea stems from the weird belief that only Europeans can't be a culture/race but everyone else can.
I can keep posting statistics. Do you deny that Whites were not the majority in nearly all major U.S cities prior to 1960?
I don't really care about solving Japan's problems. I mentioned the as an poignant, example the end-game to nationalism in a modernized, industrial nation, that didn't even need to purge foreigners because there aren't that many: it's not sustainable, and the population of the country is literally dying.
-Europe is a continent, not a culture
-White is not a culture or ethnicity, but a race.
In the Americas, we witnessed Irish, Italian, Polish, German, etc etc etc people immigrate here at the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th. They overwhelmingly gave up their ethnic identities to take on the fabrication of whiteness, as white = good, everything else (especially black) = bad.
White supremacy is American Nationalism. There is no legitimate defense for it.
No they gave up their ethnicity and got nationality. Why does it matter if you are white or black?`It has NOITHING to do with who you are and to integrate in a country you are wanting to live in the LEAST you should do. But this does not happen in Europe. Many come here for a better live but also not giving up anything like their very harmful culture like their radical religious belifs etc.
You want to get into Europe or Germany? Sure do a test, respect OUR laws and constitution and you are welcome. ACt like you do not care act like Religion is above our law and you need to get out of here.
I am sorry but I am fed up with this. Germany or even Europe is becoming a terrible place to live. The extreme right is rising in power because of the incompentence of the left. Our education level is the worst in whole Europe also because of mass immigration, we have a serious husing problem, Parents to not get any spots for kidnergarten anymore and so on. And we the migration of turkish people back than was a HUGE failure when the vast majority does support someone like Erdogan and teaches radical beliefs in their mosques. 20 Years ago Germany was a total different country it was open it was friendly and it was safe. It is not anymore at least reagding the personal feeling and experiences.
I am all for a Canada Immigration process because I believe that is the best way to do this. But right now its just ridiculous. We can not even deny entry to asylum seekers who were already denied once. Every month you get more than 100 people crossing the bgerman border who were denied already. And the police their just to have to look away.....
We have no laws anymore and I will say it one more time I really disagree with the AFD but if the other parties do not get their shit together the next thing I will vote for is the AFD. I am tired and angry and I am annoyed and the complete and utter incompatible Merkel. She mostly caused all this suffering in whole Europe and if this goes on she will be written into history box as the person responsible to destry the European Union
Kadayi
Banned
Do you think current global population levels are a good thing and need to be maintained? There's nothing sustainable from an environmental perspective when it comes to present population levels. Just because we might be heading towards 9.7 billion in 2050, doesn't mean we should. Nor should already overpopulated countries already in excess of their natural carrying capacity (the ability to feed themselves without food imports) be looking to take on more people. In fact, if anything it would make far greater sense to send Migrants to the US because the US has plenty of carrying capacity. I mean jeez, Texas alone is larger than either, the UK, France or Germany.
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ruvikx
Banned
There's like 125 million or so Japanese living on an archipelago they've inhabited for thousands of years without ever needing mass immigration & current-year open border ideologies. To suggest they're on pace to 'go extinct' is therefor totally incorrect. Japan will be fine, whereas it's actually Europeans who'll go extinct at this rate, i.e. with our former nations becoming 'New Africa' & 'New Arabia' at current levels of influx.
Even if people imagine a mixed future is possible, as things stand the flood is so huge we're not getting mixing but rather straight-up foreign homogenous communities taking over former European cities/towns. It's chaos.
Even if people imagine a mixed future is possible, as things stand the flood is so huge we're not getting mixing but rather straight-up foreign homogenous communities taking over former European cities/towns. It's chaos.
michaelius
Banned
There's nothing wrong with nationalism as long as it doesn't change into fascism.
TheShadowLord
Member
I bet it's going to get a lot worse in the future when some of them are going through a famine. So far, Africa would be hit the hardest though but there is also Yemen but I think it has to do with the war between Saudi Arabia and the Houthis. Whereas in Africa would be the increase of temperature that makes it hard to grow food or farm for animals.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Fears of overpopulation are unfounded. A hoax.
The world has enough resources to sustain everyone.
But people are greedy.
Japan is literally dying because the youths are not having kids.
Their population has been shrinking for almost 10 years.
The dark side of Japan's demographic outlook is well known: Barring a dramatic shift in immigration policy, the country faces a steady decline in numbers until not long after the year 3000, when the last Japanese in the world will pass away.
When a sovereign nation stabilizes to the point where the natives won't have kids, foreigners will do it for them.
There will be no "new Africa, etc." Africa is its own continent; Middle East is its own region. Just like North America did not become "new Britain, new France, new Spain" even when white people came over and foisted themselves upon the indigenous people.
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ruvikx
Banned
Oh like Ethiopia (for example) which lurches from one famine to another whilst its population total explodes to completely unsustainable levels? Meanwhile, your Japan statistics are hilarious, considering your projection is based on 1000 years at current birthrates. I'm sorry, but there reaches a point where a conversation is no longer possible when faced with such bizarre opinions as yours.
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theignoramus
Member
I feel like I'm prying teeth out with you. While the South may have started the Civil War to preserve the institution of slavery, the North's stated cause when it entered that conflict was preserving the United States. Slaves were freed later. Initially, the North wasnt even interested in freed slaves joining Union army units and fighting for their own freedom.
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ruvikx
Banned
Except there was a New York, New England, New Amsterdam, New Orleans etc. i.e. mass influx of a race & culture from one part of the world = new nation, new people, new culture. Europe is not a virgin territory ready to be taken by an industrialized power either, no, it's already occupied by us, i.e. indigenous Europeans who've been here for thousands upon thousands of years. It's our home, our ancestors built everything here.
But, as I alluded above, your "Japan is doomed!" projection which is based upon the theory they'll do nothing to increase birth rates over the next 1000 years says all I need to know about your capacity to have a real conversation on these issues. You'll do anything - including lie & present outrageous conclusions based upon farcical projections - just to justify mass immigration.
strange headache
Banned
This is one of the most ignorant statements I've read in a long while.
Sincerely,
A European
Enosh
Member
you do realize that if you replace the Japanese with non Japanese people the Japanese are still going to die out right? foreigners just replace the native population, they don't magically turn into Japanese people
also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Spain