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[Malleymal]

I always wondered why it was wrong to get a prostitute for a fling but ok if I go to a club and have some random girl want to take me to her house and have sex. Is the money really what is illegal.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I guess the fact that you chose two ways of being helplessly victimized as a way to illustrate your point about says it all. This isn't that, but I don't think you're capable of seeing that.

Nice ad hominem.

Do you honestly believe that every prostitute are in that line of work because they want to?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Good read. Thanks. I feel more informed on this!

Hope it will be decriminalized here in Victoria (Australia) soon, too.

 

[GungHo]

There is a false dichotomy here in that we can't legalize prostitution (which means setting up brothels, going after predatory people) and assist people so they're not being exploited. We can do all those things.

In fact, legalizing it would make ensuring that people aren't being exploited a lot easier. If they gotta follow a health code and follow a licensing process, then you can track them and ensure they're not 15 year-olds being brought in by slavers. It's not going to stop everything, but it's a hell of a lot better than what they have now.

 

[Devolution]

In fact, legalizing it would make ensuring that people aren't being exploited a lot easier. If they gotta follow a health code and follow a licensing process, then you can track them and ensure they're not 15 year-olds being brought in by slavers.

Yup.

Also with sex workers part of a legal process you can focus on predators. Many rapists target sex workers precisely because they're in a legal bind.

 

[dinazimmerman]

But there are people who are selling their bodies, not because it's a job they want to or because they like it, but because that's essentially their only viable option. And if that's the reason someone enters that industry, I wouldn't say that it's due to an empowering choice.

I don't mean to speak for Wazzy, but I think the point being made is that if sex workers say they are empowered, then who are we to say otherwise? If they are satisfied with the choice they've made, then it is really hard to argue they were forced into it. Even if they use sex work to escape poverty, taking action to escape poverty and succeeding can feel very empowering. On the other hand, I completely understand your point, as well. "Choosing" to prostitute yourself isn't always empowering.

 

[Jado]

Not much to add except that I fully agree with OP. Would be a drastic improvement over the current situation.

 

[Valhelm]

You know that main reason for those lifes being so awful it's because prostitution is illegal, right? I think it's pretty obvious by making it legal there would be regulation, and pimps, street prostitution, trafficking, etc would be obviously illegal.

How is that obvious? Prostitution is legal in Bengladesh, but prostitutes live truly deplorable lives.

 

[Coriolanus]

These arguments seem...tangential.

This is, at its core, a matter of choice. You should be free to do whatever you want with your own body, provided you do not harm or interfere in the rights of others.

If you want to attack one's sovereignty over one's own body, then it is upon you to justify why people should not be allowed to do whatever the (literal) fuck they want with their body.

Whatever impact this might have on human trafficking, pimping or other externalities comes at a far distant second. First, explain why adults should not be able to have sovereignty over their bodies.
-

To be fair, the first counter-argument that popped was organ-selling, but that carries permanent damage, so it seemed quite inadequate. Also obvious extensions to abortion, suicide, euthanasia, drug use and whatnot.

 

[Josh7289]

Re: the OP: I agree. I think this is a case where the law is clearly doing more harm than good.

 

[Brakke]

Nice ad hominem.

Do you honestly believe that every prostitute are in that line of work because they want to?

That's not an ad hominem. The post you quoted even explains why Kano thinks you're wrong.

"You're approaching this from a bad spot" isn't even an insult.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I don't mean to speak for Wazzy, but I think the point being made is that if sex workers say they are empowered, then who are we to say otherwise? If they are satisfied with the choice they've made, then it is really hard to argue they were forced into it. Even if they use sex work to escape poverty, taking action to escape poverty and succeeding can feel very empowering. On the other hand, I completely understand your point, as well. "Choosing" to prostitute yourself isn't always empowering and is in some cases analogous to "choosing" to let go of your purse instead of taking a bullet to the head.

Oh, I'm not arguing against that notion at all. I'm just trying to point out that people in general don't all have the same opportunities. The world isn't a level playing field. Some people have a lot of options. Some barely have any. But you work with what you have because that's all you can do. Maybe it can feel empowering to escape poverty like you say – I don't doubt that. But if the person in question still is forced into that situation and would have preferred a different route than prostitution, then I think that's damn important to bring up. Whether or not you think prostitution should be legal, I think it's very uncomfortable to see people equate that to working in a store -- especially if you don't have any other real choices or have a different view on it. To me that diminishes issues a lot of prostitutes do have to deal with.

 

[John Kowalski]

Nice ad hominem.

Do you honestly believe that every prostitute are in that line of work because they want to?

Why does it matter whether or not they want to be a prostitute? Do you think all engineers want to be engineers? Do you think all textile factory workers want to be textile factory workers? If you're arguing that this double standard is justifiable because of prostitution's exploitative nature, do you think those other jobs aren't exploitative? All jobs can be exploitative, yet that does not rob those workers of their agency, and in fact one could easily argue that the nature of contemporary work relationships in first and foremost an exploitative enterprise.

 

[dinazimmerman]

In fact, legalizing it would make ensuring that people aren't being exploited a lot easier. If they gotta follow a health code and follow a licensing process, then you can track them and ensure they're not 15 year-olds being brought in by slavers. It's not going to stop everything, but it's a hell of a lot better than what they have now.

The problem is that mandatory health checks don't always follow legalization. If Wikipedia is to be trusted, they aren't mandatory in Germany, where prostitution is legal. Also, because of legalization, Germany has one of the largest markets for prostitution. It also is a hotbed for human trafficking, arguably as a result of legalization. Though proving cause and effect is nearly impossible, this shows that legalization does not eliminate human trafficking and could very well increase it.

 

[itsinmyveins]

That's not an ad hominem. The post you quoted even explains why Kano thinks you're wrong.

"You're approaching this from a bad spot" isn't even an insult.

It's attacking my character rather than argument, making me out to see all prostitutes as victims simply because of an example I made. It could have been swapped with me choosing between two equally shitty jobs or meals or whatever, where I'm not a "victim" per se.

 

[Brakke]

It's attacking my character rather than argument, making me out to see all prostitutes as victims simply because of an example I made. It could have been swapped with me choosing between two equally shitty jobs or meals or whatever, where I'm not a "victim" per se.

a) It's still not attacking your character rather than the argument, at most it attacks both.
b) You didn't choose a different example, you chose the one you did.

 

[dinazimmerman]

Oh, I'm not arguing against that notion at all. I'm just trying to point out that people in general don't all have the same opportunities. The world isn't a level playing field. Some people have a lot of options. Some barely have any. But you work with what you have because that's all you can do. Maybe it can feel empowering to escape poverty like you say – I don't doubt that. But if the person in question still is forced into that situation and would have preferred a different route than prostitution, then I think that's damn important to bring up. Whether or not you think prostitution should be legal, I think it's very uncomfortable to see people equate that to working in a store -- especially if you don't have any other real choices or have a different view on it. To me that diminishes issues a lot of prostitutes do have to deal with.

I agree, esp. with the bolded.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Why does it matter whether or not they want to be a prostitute? Do you think all engineers want to be engineers? Do you think all textile factory workers want to be textile factory workers? If you're arguing that this double standard is justifiable because of prostitution's exploitative nature, do you think those other jobs aren't exploitative? All jobs can be exploitative, yet that does not rob those workers of their agency, and in fact one could easily argue that the nature of contemporary work relationships in first and foremost an exploitative enterprise.

Considering the reports on PTSD, violence and abuse among prostitutes, I'd say that the possibilities of both physical and mental damage it's quite a bit higher than when compared to an engineer.. If we're talking about legal prostitution we've got the issues Goya brought up earlier for starters.

a) It's still not attacking your character rather than the argument, at most it attacks both.
b) You didn't choose a different example, you chose the one you did.

Sorry, I don't agree with you.

 

[daffy]

You know that main reason for those lifes being so awful it's because prostitution is illegal, right? I think it's pretty obvious by making it legal there would be regulation, and pimps, street prostitution, trafficking, etc would be obviously illegal.

That's not the main reason.. What gave you that idea?

 

[The Albatross]

While legalizing prostitution will make these jobs much safer and cut the risk of transmission of sexually transmitted diseases, the idea that this will empower women is intellectually insulting. Safety yes, but let's not get carried away with ourselves here.

 

[jchap]

Decriminalize it just in time for robots to put them all out of work!

 

[Mindwipe]

Considering the reports on PTSD, violence and abuse among prostitutes, I'd say that the possibilities of both physical and mental damage it's quite a bit higher than when compared to an engineer.

But quite a lot lower than being a police officer, or in the armed services...

 

[John Kowalski]

Considering the reports on PTSD, violence and abuse among prostitutes, I'd say that the possibilities of both physical and mental damage it's quite a bit higher than when compared to an engineer.. If we're talking about legal prostitution we've got the issues Goya brought up earlier for starters.

Why not tackle those problems instead rather than wholly disengaging those prostitutes from their work? And wouldn't those issues arise from the very few protections that sex workers as sex workers? The contemporary state of prostitution as a profession leaves those women far more fragile than they would be with a supportive legal framework.

The bigger matter is that legitimizing prostitution as a valid and defensible source of income would afford them the chance for a quality of life above that which nowadays forces many towards the illegal and extremely volatile state that defines contemporary prostitution.

What we don't do is refrain from addressing those issues by simply prohibiting prostitution, which by all accounts hasn't actually resulted in any significant benefits to the prostitutes themselves.

 

[BearFlexington]

I for one think that it should be legalized and taxed but doubt that it will ever happen so long as bible-thumpers reside in political office.

 

[Zoc]

This is a pretty simple issue about body autonomy, really. Any law telling mentally stable people what they can and can't do with their own bodies is unjustifiable.

You can still think it's generally a bad idea for a woman to get into the sex trade and be in support of legalization.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

This is a pretty simple issue about body autonomy, really. Any law telling mentally stable people what they can and can't do with their own bodies is unjustifiable.

You can still think it's generally a bad idea for a woman to get into the sex trade and be in support of legalization.

This is true.

 

[Silexx]

How would you guys feel about legislation like the Swedish, where being a sex worker is not illegal, but being a john is?

The Swedish model is a façade due to its geographical proximity to Amsterdam where prostitution is legal. Basically, johns have simply started commuting to Amsterdam to frequent sex workers.

In order words, the Swedish model is not something that can be replicated any where else.

 

[Gavin996]

Prostitution is legal in the UK, brothels and kerb crawling are the illegal parts, most independent women advertise their wares on the Adultwork website. How you go about making it respectable is complicated, but it isn't as taboo as it used to be.

I didn't know this.

Clearly I have some catching up to do.

 

[DEO3]

Is there any where it is legal? And if so, how have the pros vs cons to society and public health shaken out?