Fair enough I suppose. Its probably more odd because they are displayed next to football stuff than anything. Again though not really sure what age has to do with it. Teenagers cant afford these figures. They are 70- 90$ each on average and can go upwards of 200$
I've grown confused and frustrated with the "moe culture", and I need to vent.
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Fair enough I suppose. Its probably more odd because they are displayed next to football stuff than anything. Again though not really sure what age has to do with it. Teenagers cant afford these figures. They are 70- 90$ each on average and can go upwards of 200$
This is 100% true.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
From what I know it does. The show itself isn't really bad or anything, it was just my go-two example because the fan reception to it was kind of a perfect storm of examples.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Yea I'm aware of this, but I was under the impression that stuff like Moe , even in Japan, didn't define anime back then the way it does now.
NeonZ
Member
It depends on what level you're talking about. "Moe" doesn't put anime among the top 10 tv ratings.
Series like One Piece, Dragonball Kai, Detective Conan, Pokemon, Yokai Watch and Naruto are much bigger than any "moe" series. However, "moe" does resonate well with dvd/blu-ray buyers though, and that's where you often get shows like those reigning.
Still, even "moe" covers a bunch of different things. Shows about "cute girls doing cute things" seem to be becoming smaller and smaller in number nowadays, after a temporary rise with K-ON. There are still many harem based on light novels and manga though, which of course are filled with cute girls, or just "cute girl" designs in series that could easily do away with them completely without losing anything. Still, I don't see that ever going away in that sense since there's an audience that wants that.
If thats what you see then more power to you. I see cute figures. There are far more provocative figures I could buy if I wanted to go the fanservice route.
I guess the Charlotte in a bunnysuit might be sexual but its an adorable pose based on existing art. Just unfortunate that bunnygirls have such negative association besides just looking cute.
then again I have a vastly different view of the world than most so who knows really.
The Omega Man
Member
Are you in a relationship? boyfriend/girlfriend husband/wife? or have you been in one lately?
AnathemicOne
Banned
True, but on the the flipside of the same coin, the shows from back then that Western audiences praise didn't define anime back then either.
Sorry is this NeoGAF? I must have stumbled into the shitty part of the Internet again.
Nope. I hope to stay single forever if possible.
i have no need for a relationship.
friends are whats important.
Because people who get into relationships tend to abandon their hobbies?
The Omega Man
Member
never said that, I am married and collect many things and have many hobbies, you get less time definitely for hobbies with wife and kids but no need to abandon hobbies.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Cajun, I've come to believe that you're sincere in really truly just viewing this stuff differently from most people. But I think that's almost unique, even among anime fans. I don't think most other people who would buy that bunny-girl figure or the others would be oblivious to some of the sexual overtones.
(although really, the one second from the right is "just cute"?)
PdotMichael
Banned
I like the youdon'tlivecorrectly.jpg new aspect.
M0nochromatic
Member
Some series can be a bit too pandering, but that's what sells and allows the creators to try out different show ideas without going under. Plenty of quality "regular" anime like Mushi-Shi, JoJo, HxH, and Ping Pong are still being made and are still popular. I'm only barely paying attention to what comes out each season, but there's plenty of non-moe content out there to try. I think some (most) out of it can become awkward and bad, but there's also some shows out there that fit the moe description, but are still regarded as high quality content by many.
My Everyday Blunt?
http://youtu.be/dBqMxvqLQuw
http://youtu.be/o2TO5atI4rU
Top tier right here
Stop caring about what other people like and why they like it, and focus on why you like it
PS
My Everyday Blunt?
http://youtu.be/dBqMxvqLQuw
http://youtu.be/o2TO5atI4rU
John Kowalski
Banned
my girlfriend enjoys my rei dakimakura more than i do
May I present you melonpan, has a girlfriend and a good job - and is the biggest openly pervert guy I know. Anyways, asking cajun this is silly.
Im just a weird person I guess. I genuinely just love cuteness. Im actually less inclined to enjoy cuteness if its overtly sexual. I guess its not the common way this stuff is viewed but consider that Im a straight guy but people trust me completely around their GFs. I have very very low sexual impulse of any kind. Like I can see attraction even in a character designed as such to be that way but it doesnt affect me. Instead its just like "she is cute and Id like to just hug/protect her". Maybe deep down thats a slight attraction but not something super strong to where Id ever bother acting on it. Hurting someone for. My own benefit is absolutely out of the question.
I could almost be like those fedora neckbeard people except whereas they expect to be repaid with sex, I just want to be nice to people and make them happy. For me the cute characters and outfits are an innocent thing even if they arent intended to be. Some of these figures have "cast off" skirts and stuff but I never display them in less than full clothing because I honestly dont like them seen that way. It prevents me from buying a lot of figures actually.
Like you said Im really not the common case here so maybe Im just talking in circles.
still, I think people should be given the benefit of doubt unless they demonstrate otherwise.
Geez, this thread. Blanket statements and judgements everywhere.
I consider myself an anime fan, and while I have noticed the proliferation of the "moé" (though that term seems to be used for all kinds of things and I prefer to just call that kind of anime pandering to a certain audience), I haven't found it taking over the entire medium like a lot of people here claim.
Heck, I feel like I have too much anime to watch as of late. Mushi-shi, Yu-Gi-Oh Arc-V, Attack on Titan, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Among my friends, all I hear about is JJBA and that anime is about as un-moé as you can get. Anime News Network has addressed the question of moé quite a few times, if I remember right. It'd probably help to go read what that site has to say about it, but I imagine a lot of people here aren't interested in understanding it and would rather just condemn people for it.
I just kind of ignore the more obviously pandering stuff. I don't think moé has taken over JRPGs, either. The art style in games has changed, but it isn't some unilateral shift to moé.
People also seem to forget that we only get a fraction of Japan's anime output in the West. So judging the entire medium based on what we can see here seems silly to me.
A lot of posts in this thread seem to boil down to, "There's this thing that I find disturbing in this wider medium and because it has an audience, that damns the entire medium." To each their own, I guess?
I consider myself an anime fan, and while I have noticed the proliferation of the "moé" (though that term seems to be used for all kinds of things and I prefer to just call that kind of anime pandering to a certain audience), I haven't found it taking over the entire medium like a lot of people here claim.
Heck, I feel like I have too much anime to watch as of late. Mushi-shi, Yu-Gi-Oh Arc-V, Attack on Titan, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Among my friends, all I hear about is JJBA and that anime is about as un-moé as you can get. Anime News Network has addressed the question of moé quite a few times, if I remember right. It'd probably help to go read what that site has to say about it, but I imagine a lot of people here aren't interested in understanding it and would rather just condemn people for it.
I just kind of ignore the more obviously pandering stuff. I don't think moé has taken over JRPGs, either. The art style in games has changed, but it isn't some unilateral shift to moé.
People also seem to forget that we only get a fraction of Japan's anime output in the West. So judging the entire medium based on what we can see here seems silly to me.
A lot of posts in this thread seem to boil down to, "There's this thing that I find disturbing in this wider medium and because it has an audience, that damns the entire medium." To each their own, I guess?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Well I tried to actually watch an episode of k-on to see wtf people are talking about (my last venture was the world only god knows which lasted like 4mins) but apparently it's popular enough to not be on Crunchy Roll, so unless it's somewhere else not piratey I'll just skip this venture and continue to be clueless.
It's a 2010 show, and anything before 2012 is woefully lacking on CR since they've only been legit and getting a huge number of titles for a few years. Hulu is the only site I know of that streams K-On.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean, you say this, but those figures you posted are cute but express enough overt sexuality to bother me and a lot of other people. I don't know how much other media you watch, but that level of "sexiness" in everything isn't par for the course everywhere else like it is in enthusiast anime merchandise. Its really jarring for a lot of us to look at that kind of stuff.
Shiro?
I love the colors of the figure and the cute pose (she is supposed to be holding a chesspiece in her hand)
Also really like the base design and her crown. Very pretty figure that looks excellent in good lighting. There are some paint flaws which was disappointing.
i like a lot of shows and oftentimes I have to resort to the only figures available, which often have fanservicey qualities. Its unfortunate but again that stuff is what sells. If I want the figure I put up with the fanservice.
Its the same with maids and cat ears and gothic lolita outfits. I love these things because i find them extremely cute but Im not oblivious to them also being fetish fuel. I can see how someone who doesnt know me might see these figures and think Im some sexual deviant. I can see that point.
The Omega Man
Member
We get nearly everything Japan does in North America. Unless you mean the amount shown on TV here pales in comparison...but the stuff that actually airs here isn't really what people in this thread are talking about so I'm not sure what the point is.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I may come to this thread later and tell people how I feel.
But this thread is making me really sad. And hurting my Christmas.
I do think there are some problems with moe culture. But I think that a lot of people are very negative and judgmental about things that don't deserve it. And it's really upsetting to read things like this.
But this thread is making me really sad. And hurting my Christmas.
I do think there are some problems with moe culture. But I think that a lot of people are very negative and judgmental about things that don't deserve it. And it's really upsetting to read things like this.
beato_angelico
Member
Most of these were grandfathered in, weren't they? They're hardly the norm when you look at the new series debuting each year. It's like saying The Simpsons's continued popularity is indicative that American audiences are still receptive to all-age cartoons, which couldn't be further from the truth. These shows also have an ongoing source material that both feeds and gets fed by their popularity, which isn't true of, say, IM@S. At least, not to nearly the same extent as Pokemon or One Piece.
Yes I know. If I could find "sfw" versions of these figures I would buy those. However its these or nothing because this is what companies make. I didnt buy a certain Santa catgirl figure because she is barely wearing panties and a skimpy top. The pose and cat ears are squeeworthy but I dont want the sexuality. So I didnt buy it. It was disappointing.
But at least the characters arent naked or something.
I dont see the appeal in those kinds of figures and they arent made for me. Again though, since I like certain things that are basically fetishistic to most people Im gonna be stuck with figures that are fetishistic in other ways. I can display them in the least provocative pose possible but most will still see it.
not_so_special
Banned
the sucess of the moe culture on modern anime its one the reasons i left anime
So we are still pretending this is a "new thing" in anime, eh?
I'm guessing you watched Toonami as a kid, right?
As for what else I watch it ranges from older anime to sci fi movies and even courtroom dramas as well as football (american) and quite an array of non japanese cartoons. I even watch my little pony on occasion. Basically whatever piques my interest really. Moe/cute anime is only one thing. I do spend a lot of money on it though.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
I don't know, I am more so angered and annoyed by every anime featuring the "big boobed" woman who all of the other characters fear will take their man. For a while I thought it was a thing common with mainstream rom coms until I was introduced to more obscure stuff. It leads me to believe the term "loli" is beginning to represent even of age characters by US standards just by the size of their chest.
That is just my input though.
That is just my input though.
What? We do not get nearly everything Japan does in North America. Companies that publish anime mention all the time that they make pretty deliberate choices on what to bring here, which means that a lot isn't brought here. It's a similar case for manga, and I imagine it's worse after Borders went out of business a few years ago.
So people in this thread are looking at what airs in Japan and might not have come here and are using that to decide to not watch anime or to judge its audience? My point was that it's pretty easy to ignore this stuff. People are just choosing to damn all of anime based on the fact that something they don't like (and I'm not criticizing that part as it's a matter of taste) has an audience.
It's unfortunate that no one has responded to this post which actually addressed the specific concerns of the OP. I guess that's why most of us don't really bother these days.
NeonZ
Member
Huh? But Idom@ster has a source material too? It's not different from Pokemon in that regard.
The main issue is that shows focused on DVD/Blu-ray are much shorter. They're generally 13 episode season nowadays, and almost universally have decreasing sales after each season. So, there's a trend of more and more new shows to replace them, rather than long running series. Still, Yokai Watch is fairly new. Detective Conan also got a spin-off last season (Magic Kaitou) that's performing almost as good as the main Conan show. Shounen Jump has announced a few new animated series for next year, like Assassination Classroom, which have the potential to be long running too if any of them succeed.
The entire reason we have many shows starting every reason is because there's this audience for these disc sales based shows though. If you look at annual anime lists from the 90s, they were generally significantly smaller. Even if you look at just DVD/Blu-Ray focused series though, there's variety. One of the biggest shows this season in disc sales seems to be Psychopass 2 somehow, which is pretty mediocre, but nothing "moe"-like.
Owlowiscious
Member
I really cant stand that trope either.
and yes, even of age women are being called lolis if they have small chests. A lot of women are ashamed of not having large chests and this sort of shaming probably makes it worse.
Shows ran for longer in the 90s because a larger proportion of TV anime was intended for (younger) kids. A lot of the stuff that airs late-nights today was only available on VHS and Laserdisc releases in the 80s and early 90s, and this started to change around when Eva got popular in 95/96.
No. No it really doesn't. Maybe the dictonairy definition to the use of 萌 is that, but the meaning of it has been taken and used by anime otaku to mean something completely different. Moe is a feeling, a feeling invoked by anything at all. It could be cute, it could be exciting or it could be a sad feeling, but moe is a feeling that can't really be quantified into words.
There seems to be a lot of people in this thread both missusing the term moe to try and strengthen their arguments and also the term fanservice. There's fanservice in everything and everything. Fanservice doesn't have to be anything sexual, even a reference to another show in TV for example is fanservice. Fanservice is something that "services" or caters to fans of something.
90s had more OVAs and 26 episode series. Today there are many more 10-13 episode ones. However I dont think the overall situation has changed that much. Long running series are always going on. Right now there is stuff like Toriko and Fairy Tail.
MikeHattsu
Member
D3RANG3D
Member
This Kenshiro, and Guts are moe.
so could someone clear something up for me
isn't moe like all that uguu~~ stuff? I always thought of it was a character type. Like that one girl in Clannad is moe, but the show as a whole is not.
I've never seen K-On but there is a difference between Kawaii and moe right? Kawaii is just the culture of propagating cuteness and femininity. Which was gained traction with girls in Japan back in the 80's. So a lot of animes depict girls who propagate that kawaii archetype. Just how the west has scene or emo girls right?
Moe is all that toddler regressive behavior that characters put on, or so I thought. I never saw nichijou as moe because the whole show is kids acting older than they are, and taking the piss.
isn't moe like all that uguu~~ stuff? I always thought of it was a character type. Like that one girl in Clannad is moe, but the show as a whole is not.
I've never seen K-On but there is a difference between Kawaii and moe right? Kawaii is just the culture of propagating cuteness and femininity. Which was gained traction with girls in Japan back in the 80's. So a lot of animes depict girls who propagate that kawaii archetype. Just how the west has scene or emo girls right?
Moe is all that toddler regressive behavior that characters put on, or so I thought. I never saw nichijou as moe because the whole show is kids acting older than they are, and taking the piss.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
lol I did the samegoogle image rei dakimakura*
Well I switched to Madoka Magic girl, which doesn't seem too bad 15mins in. I mean there was the naked transformation thing in the intro but that's... I dunno, it's hard to explain. I feel like in some way there is a "loveliness of the sexual form" appreciation expressed in these things that can be done separately from "I want to bang" intentions. This show also seems to be in a celebration of a concept of "girlhood" in a similar manner with the characterization. Things can be one or the other or mixed together, but I just don't think human nature is so simplistic in any given thing that you can instantly equate depictions to desires or "intentions if given the chance."
In some of these reported otaku obsessives that the industry is apparently pandering to, can it also come from some
I mean, in a normal relationship you will at times view your partner with sexual desire, other times admire their loveliness, other times perhaps the innocent sides of their character, and at different moments these may mix and match. Art tends to do all these things as well, but there are ideas of "classy" ways that specify acceptable borders and contexts which make them appropriate. These animes seems to be throwing it all together and turning the dial up to louder levels, and that may be demonstrative of a rejection or escape from normal rules of subtlety and contexts of real life sociability, but I don't really see it as fundamentally different from what anyone else does all the time with only stronger compartmentalization, perhaps to safeguard social roles and contexts from getting blurred as they have them more prominently in their life focus whereas these otaku may hold themselves more distanced or isolated and not need that.
...hm, didn't expect to become otaku defence force but I guess it's just my rationalizing/chill personality in this case.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Well even in the shows that feature this, the characters with less exaggerated bodies are sometimes critical of their own features for being lesser. In the sort of way that says, "When I am older I will look more like that."
This is sad because getting older doesn't always mean getting boobs or a curvy body. I just don't think it is a good lesson, or even good comedy. It dispels most the negative feelings I have toward loli culture.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean, do you get then why those of us who do look into this enthusiast scene with its merchandise and its fan communities and see how much of this stuff is sexually charged (or at least expressing desire in some way) and go "....well now"
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