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[Dave Long]

There's an interview that was done before the launch. He says a lot of dumb things, but my favorite part of the interview occurs when they ask him about Revolution. He never really answers the question... twice! But the second answer is almost insulting...

E: Looking at the Revolution, with its controller and game download service, how important is technology like that for growing the market, or is there still room for growth with conventional games?

J: I think there's still quite a ways - there's a business model problem in this industry which is kind of the elephant in the corner and that's the price of games. But the price-of-games conversation that most people are having at the moment is that the price of games is going to go up this generation. And you look at it and boy, there's a huge rental and recycle market for games, partly because games are really expensive. And what we haven't done in the gaming industry is that we haven't brought advertising, sponsorship and product placement to bear in any way that could broaden the audience. Now, I don't think anyone in the world - except people who work in advertising - would stand up and say: "I love advertising, I want more of it!" But the flipside of it is that I like the price of the Internet, I like the fact I can buy your magazine on the store shelf and it doesn't cost me $27. Advertising allows us to hit economies of scale and allows us to have wider reach. If Edge didn't have advertising, how much more would it cost and how many fewer subscribers would it have? And yet that's what we're doing in the games industry - explicitly. We're saying we're doing without ads, we're doing it without the help of partners who want to reach that audience. So I think there are a lot of people who are richly interested in gaming and would be very dedicated to it, but they turn away because of cost. So there's a model there, where console manufacturers can take the steps with the hardware to reach a wider audience, so that publishers can reach greater scale and you can soften the price impact. And then you do things like online distribution, then you can bring the cost of games down and we can reach a wider audience and there's a business model there that hasn't been fully addressed.

Now it might be just me, but I think J. should've realized the moment he said no one would stand up and say "I love advertising, I want more of it!", that the rest of what he was going to say was a bunch of bullshit. The last thing I want is to fire up the next Sonic game and have him run real close to the camera so it can zoom in on his Adidas-covered feet and then pan up to his SWATCH watch on his wrist, etc.

But really, that's beside the point because Edge asked him nearly the same question about the Revolution TWICE and he just didn't bother to answer and this second time he went on about advertising in games being some kind of innovation that we're all going to be happy to get because it might lower the price? I think we all can see already with a game like Need for Speed Most Wanted, which is crawling with in-game advertising, that there's no price break when you put ads in the game. It just ends up in the publisher's pocket.

If you can pick up this Christmas issue at Barnes & Noble in the States, this interview is worth reading, both for some interesting stuff and for his incredibly ridiculous spin, especially when he talks about Sony and two 1080p sets in every house and kind of vacillates on the whole HD message. He even says "we didn't want to alienate consumers into thinking: 'I can't buy that because I don't own a hi-def'" which is ridiculous because THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID WITH THE HD HYPE!

 

[Mama Smurf]

Wow, he didn't even try to make it seem like he answered the question. Just made up his own one and answered that.

 

[Mejilan]

Yeah, it's a bullshit response. The worst thing is, that I get what he's trying to say, but there's no kidding about it. Advertising in games (which already happens to a greater degree than ever, I think), isn't lessening costs. So in that, he's full of shit.

 

[Dave Long]

Wow, he didn't even try to make it seem like he answered the question. Just made up his own one and answered that.

Yeah, and I forgot... he had a perfect answer to that question. Live Arcade, which to be honest, is the best part of the entire 360 experience so far, specifically the high score tables and the competition and communication that generates. He could easily have talked about that when asked about the Rev. download service and said, "I hope Nintendo does something like that too." or whatever and shown that they were thinking along the same lines.

I'm just kind of insulted that he ignores the question and he does it more than once in the interview. This is the same kind of thing Peter Moore does when he doesn't like what he's been asked and it's crap. Just give a "No Comment" if you don't want to answer. Edge is aweome for printing it though, because if you're not just sitting there all glazed eyes reading it, then it really does make J. look like an ass.

 

[radioheadrule83]

It was a bit of a mish mash of thoughts, like he was talking in a stream of consciousness, but I think he basically thought of what can be done online in services like XBL and Nintendo's new system, and thought "hey, advertising hasn't been explored in games and online services". And he's right. It hasn't been exploited like it has in other media. It could be used not just for ad-space-revenue but also to advertise publishers' games more completely. XBL demo downloads are promotion in that sense..

He does mention online distribution (ie. Revs service, XBL arcade etc) and how that can reach a wide audience, cut out the middle man, and thus be cheaper.

He did dodge the question about the Revolution, but maybe he just found himself too hands-tied to pay it any sort of real compliment. He does say that wider audiences is softens the cost for publishers... maybe he was trying to be nice

 

[civilstrife]

The last thing I want is to fire up the next Sonic game

.

 

[D-X]

The last thing I want is to fire up the next Sonic game and have him run real close to the camera so it can zoom in on his Adidas-covered feet and then pan up to his SWATCH watch on his wrist, etc.

How about the SOAP shoes from Sonic Adventure 2?

And here's the official Sonic Adventure SWATCH

 

[elostyle]

So his answer to how to grow the market is in game advertising?

Strange...

 

[kaching]

So his answer to how to grow the market is in game advertising?

No, his answer to grow the market was to reduce the cost of games. His answer about how to do that was to increase games-related advertising.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

It was a bit of a mish mash of thoughts, like he was talking in a stream of consciousness...

like a lucid dream?!?

 

[neptunes]

That answer had absolutely nothing to do with the question he was asked.

Edit: ok, I think I'm missing something (confused :S)

 

[The Friendly Monster]

I completely disagree with advertising in games. Why should a game be compared to a magazine? Do we get advertising in novels or music? The games industry seems to be running almost parallel with the film industry on this issue.

Anyway how did they let him get away without answering that question? They need Paxman!

 

[heidern]

or is there still room for growth with conventional games?

Allard did answer the question posed. Because his answer was yes there is room for growth with conventional games, it means technology like in the Rev isnt that important for growing the market.

 

[hellfire]

I completely disagree with advertising in games. Why should a game be compared to a magazine? Do we get advertising in novels or music? The games industry seems to be running almost parallel with the film industry on this issue.

a game can be compared to any other kind of entertainment media. you pay money, you get as much entertainment as you can out of it and move on (i realize the business models sound different, where most mags are almost completely ad-funded, but i think the idea is the same - more eyeballs means more advertising revenue. you get more eyeballs by putting out better content than your competitors).

you get advertising in most of these media. e.g. you get TV ads or you pay subscription. you get product placement up the #&*$&# wazoo in the best TV shows and movies. you don't usually consider it advertising, but i think that's what he's talking about.

frankly i'd welcome anything to reduce the cost of games. if that means seeing 'samsung' or 'palm' plastered on my in-game PDAs, so be it.

 

[Joe]

i think people are just annoyed that he didnt bad mouth the revolution because they just wanted a reason to hate him more.

 

[brandonnn]

You can read the whole schmear on the Edge website, as well: http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2005/12/awe_have_the_be.php

Just saying because I hope you didn't re-type that whole thing up yourself, Dave.

 

[Prine]

i think people are just annoyed that he didnt bad mouth the revolution because they just wanted a reason to hate him more.

yep. He should have, X360 is certainly in a position to call nintendo out. XBLA is brilliant, the whole Dashboard/Live service is a phenomenal achievement, a standard that others will need to match

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

i think people are just annoyed that he didnt bad mouth the revolution because they just wanted a reason to hate him more.

Basics. Granted, I made a thread about in-game advertising not too long along, but if it helps them keep pricing reasonable, then good for the industry.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Basics. Granted, I made a thread about in-game advertising not too long along, but if it helps them keep pricing reasonable, then good for the industry.

That is how I feel about it. Pricing needs to be reasonable and any unintrusive means to do so is fine by me. The industry is free to experiment about how to do this as much as it wants. More power to them!

 

[Optimistic]

Uh, what's wrong with what he's saying? He's right. I'm all for advertising in games if it brings the cost of the fucking things down. Games at the moment are WAY too expensive.

 

[Ikaris]

J. Allard taps three colorless and one water, and...

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=66420

My thread made about this very thing

 

[Monk]

I think he is right in a sense. They have to find a way to pay for additional costs of games, we are already seeing companies go down and we dont want more of that. I dont think that any of us will complain about non abrasive advertising in games, soAllard has the right idea.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I think he is right in a sense. They have to find a way to pay for additional costs of games, we are already seeing companies go down and we dont want more of that. I dont think that any of us will complain about non abrasive advertising in games, soAllard has the right idea.

I think a few people did some Tiger Woods fist pumps when Acclaim went under

 

[byproduct]

He actually is answering part of the question - "how important is technology like that for growing the market" - he says that downloadable games via the online service reduces the price of games by cuttting distribution and packaging costs, and the cost of games is an issue that currently may be limiting the size of the market.

He does completely ignore the revolution controller technology and it's role in Nintendo's efforts to expand the market though.

The whole advertising as a way of lowering cost things is a tangent but he brings his answer back round to (part of) the question in the end.

 

[Monk]

Like working designs?

 

[Dave Long]

You can read the whole schmear on the Edge website, as well: http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2005/12/awe_have_the_be.php

Just saying because I hope you didn't re-type that whole thing up yourself, Dave.

 

[Dave Long]

You guys happy about advertising are missing the point. It hasn't done shit for making games cheaper. I gave you your example. Need for Speed Most Wanted is loaded with it and the price is $60 on 360 and $50 on the other systems.

No publisher is going to cut you a break because they got endorsement money. You don't see basketball stars taking less contract money from their team because they got a better shoe deal. It just doesn't work like that. Product placement should be at the top of all your EVIL lists because the more it's allowed, the more of it you're going to get.

Don't be sheep!

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Product placement is in no way the same as the kind of advertising he's talking about. And that's the only kind of sponsorship we've seen in games thus far. I say make it, you know, Ford Presents Forza Motorsport or something like that, as long as it brings the damn cost down. That really is the largest thing keeping games out of the super mainstream.

EB and Gamestop sure aren't helping either. You used to be able to get decent scratch for trading your games in, but now it's a joke. It's absolutely not worth trading in games anymore and, thus, it would really help if they were cheaper.

And movies are no longer ad-free. The only bastions left are CDs and Novels. Note, however, that for the most part their average cost is around twenty bucks. J was actually quite spot on about how much advertising keeps certain media in business but, you know, dyuh.

The response here isn't surprising, as most people are gagging for more N v. S v. MS Fodder and much less interested in the fundamental flaws in the marketplace. And to think, I used to come to video game forums to GET AWAY from the sniping and zealotry I had deal with on the comic book ones.

 

[Brandon F]

Need for Speed Most Wanted is loaded with it and the price is $60 on 360 and $50 on the other systems.

A slightly lesser annoyance, but I don't even think the $60 NFS port even got the Limited Edition features of the slightly more expensive 'Black' versions on current gen consoles. Then again I'm not exactly crying over a missing 'making of dvd' or some exclusive cars or whatever, but I'd have expected it as standard for equal pricing.

 

[Excelion]

Nintendo games have been loaded with Mario advertising for years, it didn't bring the prices down.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Nintendo games have been loaded with Mario advertising for years, it didn't bring the prices down.

Yeah, but they didn't PAY themselves for the right to, though.

 

[fortified_concept]

yep. He should have, X360 is certainly in a position to call nintendo out. XBLA is brilliant, the whole Dashboard/Live service is a phenomenal achievement, a standard that others will need to match

Don't cum yet, I have the MS logo to show you:

Wasn't that nice?

 

[epmode]

Don't cum yet, I have the MS logo to show you:

Doesn't change the fact that he's right.

Xbox Live on the 360 is incredible. In all honesty, Live alone makes the system worth owning. Now where the hell is Oblivion?

 

[MrSardonic]

it is insulting to see that guy respond to a question with such a non-answer. I don't think Nintendo have to equal the XBL service, because unlike XBL, Nintendo's online plan is meant to be free - I'm willing to take some hits in the feature department so that I don't have to pay to subscribe to online services for each console

 

[blackadde]

i can see it now.

only michelin brand tires in gt5, because they have an exclusive contract.
mcdonalds presents metal gear solid 4. eat happy meals and wear the golden arches to sneak past your foes!
five minutes of unskippable exclusive trailers for the upcoming season of survivor whenever you boot up halo 3.
wal-mart commercials during level loads.
buy ten songs off itunes, get a new online weapon in iQuake 5.
the prince of all cosmos in abercrombie.
the warthog was built by general motors and by god are they going to let you know about it.

total utter bullshit. i would rather have higher prices and untainted development. the industry is already riddled with enough managment garbage, now we should worry about them building games around focus-groups to maximize demographics and ad revenue?

 

[Kobold]

For the mainstream audience, who don't care wether there is a logo in the screen, because they are used to the ad infested TV programming, it will be a blessing to have lower gaming prices. And that's the audience they want to reach.

 

[Grug]

I'd put up with advertising in certain games to an extent if most of, if not all the savings were directly passed onto me, the consumer.

But I have a feeling alot of developers would reduce the price of the game a fraction but pocked the vast percentage of the advertising revenue.

I don't want to revive my characters in Final Fantasy with Mountain Dew though, or have my Morrowind character get the enchanted Reebok shoes of speed. But there is an appropriate place for it in some games (sports titles for example).

 

[blackadde]

sorry kojima, we gotta cut the boss and replace her with a more 'brand friendly' character. burger king's been on our ass about ad funding all week. hey, mariah carey's got a contract with em right? she fits perfect. i'll give her a ring and see how we can tie 'mgs4' with 'glitter 2: i'm not famous enough'! stay fresh baby.

oh, and snake has to wear these.

 

[Amir0x]

I know I'll probably be alone in this, but I don't mind advertising in games. The key is to make it seamless, like it's apart of the world. Now there's a lot of fantasy games where it would be out of place. Pepsi logos should be no more a part of Shadow of the Colossus as it should be of the Lord of the Rings movies. But to me, advertising seems like a natural evolution of the increasing development costs and expanding popularity and power videogames have in pop culture today.

I know Musashi Wins! disagrees, but the way they did advertising in Pikmin 2 wasn't even subtle, but it was funny and it made me feel like it was apart of that world they were exploring at one time. In racing games, I expect ads - there are ads in courses in real life, and by extension it's a logical genre to have these sorts of things appear. It doesn't really affect me at all, and I respect that it brings more revenue. That might not necessarily reflect in the prices going down, but when development is 30 million or something this upcoming gen... it might help soften the blows a bit here and there, particularly in bigger titles. It's just about doing it right. Ads in movies are no more attractive when they're done like they are in The Island, but when they're done right it's just an unintrusive part of the world.

That said, there's other places to do viable advertising in the game world. XBX LIVE represents a great opportunity in this regard. Like with MI:3 trailer going there first, if companies use it intelligently they can do a good thing with ads.

Anyway, just my feelings. As long as the ads aren't taking me out of the world created, I don't see why it's any less viable than doing it in cinema. And like cinema, there's a time and a place.

 

[Dave Long]

Product placement is in no way the same as the kind of advertising he's talking about. And that's the only kind of sponsorship we've seen in games thus far. I say make it, you know, Ford Presents Forza Motorsport or something like that, as long as it brings the damn cost down. That really is the largest thing keeping games out of the super mainstream.

EB and Gamestop sure aren't helping either. You used to be able to get decent scratch for trading your games in, but now it's a joke. It's absolutely not worth trading in games anymore and, thus, it would really help if they were cheaper.

And movies are no longer ad-free. The only bastions left are CDs and Novels. Note, however, that for the most part their average cost is around twenty bucks. J was actually quite spot on about how much advertising keeps certain media in business but, you know, dyuh.

The response here isn't surprising, as most people are gagging for more N v. S v. MS Fodder and much less interested in the fundamental flaws in the marketplace. And to think, I used to come to video game forums to GET AWAY from the sniping and zealotry I had deal with on the comic book ones.

It's not going to bring the price down. The price of videogames is set at $50 and up when they're brand new. That's not going to change except for budget titles because we know the market sustains and thrives on that price. That's why they're making games $60, because they think the market will bear an even HIGHER price.

All the addition of even more advertising is going to do is make the fat cats richer and make it easier for them to make their investors happy. "Fuck you consumer" is pretty much the way it works when it comes to ads.

You guys obviously weren't around when Interplay was putting unskippable ads for their other games in front of their PC games. Talk about pissing people off...

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Wow....that response was just horrible.

That whole rant was a bunch of BS, because they know they will not lower the price, but instead pocket all the money.

I really hate him and Moore. They aren't even spinning anymore. It's more like flipping.

I fear the day they take over the market and then laugh at us when they mark games up to $80.

 

[Dave Long]

That might not necessarily reflect in the prices going down, but when development is 30 million or something this upcoming gen... it might help soften the blows a bit here and there, particularly in bigger titles.

Why do you care about this? It's not your money that's funding the game. It's EA or whoever that has to pay the bills. They're not passing the savings on to you. They're taking that money, pocketing it and sticking more advertising in your face!

They'd still make that 30 million dollar game with or without the ad money.

 

[blackadde]

You guys obviously weren't around when Interplay was putting unskippable ads for their other games in front of their PC games. Talk about pissing people off...

do you think theatres always played ads before movies? :lol

 

[Dave Long]

do you think theatres always played ads before movies? :lol

No... I was born in 1972, thanks.

I'm trying to keep the discussion about games because when you start throwing the movie stuff in there, people use that "Games aren't like movies...that won't happen here." defense.

 

[blackadde]

ok, fair enough.

 

[Amir0x]

Why do you care about this? It's not your money that's funding the game. It's EA or whoever that has to pay the bills. They're not passing the savings on to you. They're taking that money, pocketing it and sticking more advertising in your face!

They'd still make that 30 million dollar game with or without the ad money.

Because I know that, in the long run, it can actually affect the health of the development company (if they're making money, if they're not) and then that WILL eventually affect me, because one day I won't be able to buy games from them because that particular studio was closed down or something.

It's also not isolated to EA like some are trying to make this out to be. Just because they don't necessarily make products that are always worth buying, doesn't mean that there aren't tons of legitimately great companies who can use the funds they receive from advertising like this.

We can try to ignore the truth about rising development costs, and always proclaim 'this should never ever be an option, the gamers pure soul does not allow it', but it's not really good for the evolution of videogames. Advertising is important. Not everyone will do it well, but, it is important. Making that 30 million dollar game one way or the other is kinda the whole point.

That's just my opinion though.

 

[D3VI0US]

I'm glad he got demoted, I mean he's just kind of jackass. Peter Moore is a way more likeable frontman and I love how he gets the fanboys all riled up with his spin moves. They really hate that guy, lol. To me he's the lovable moron, it's like Halo 2 tattoo, wtf are you serious? Brilliant marketing. :lol

 

[E-Nature]

Doesn't change the fact that he's right.

Xbox Live on the 360 is incredible. In all honesty, Live alone makes the system worth owning. Now where the hell is Oblivion?

so basically you say, you like to spend money for stuff which other companies give you for free?

 

[Amir0x]

so basically you say, you like to spend money for stuff which other companies give you for free?

Although this is speculation, I highly doubt any other company is going to give you even half of what Xbox LIVE 360 gives you for free, and certainly not in an environment as stable and relatively cheat free. If you believe it will then we'll just have to wait and see who ends up correct.