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[Dave Long]

Because I know that, in the long run, it can actually affect the health of the development company (if they're making money, if they're not) and then that WILL eventually affect me, because one day I won't be able to buy games from them because that particular studio was closed down or something.

It's also not isolated to EA like some are trying to make this out to be. Just because they don't necessarily make products that are always worth buying, doesn't mean that there aren't tons of legitimately great companies who can use the funds they receive from advertising like this.

We can try to ignore the truth about rising development costs, and always proclaim 'this should never ever be an option, the gamers pure soul does not allow it', but it's not really good for the evolution of videogames. Advertising is important. Not everyone will do it well, but, it is important. Making that 30 million dollar game one way or the other is kinda the whole point.

That's just my opinion though.

Explain to me why it's suddenly so important, though? We got by without it for years and years outside of some isolated occurrances?

If it's costing too much to make a game, you simply don't spend that money. Why does it cost 30 million to make a game? Where does that money go? If you have to turn to advertising to get part of that 30 million, and that's not going to help the customer out in any way, then what's the point?

Here's the crux of that... Can you tell the difference on-screen between something that cost $30 million and something that cost $28 million? I mean, are we really expecting ad revenue to be more than say, $2 million per game? What does that extra $2 million buy the publisher? Certainly the developer is not going to see that money.

Also, you don't have to say "That's just my opinion" because I fully understand that. We can disagree about things. It's ok.

 

[Dave Long]

Although this is speculation, I highly doubt any other company is going to give you even half of what Xbox LIVE 360 gives you for free, and certainly not in an environment as stable and relatively cheat free. If you believe it will then we'll just have to wait and see who ends up correct.

I think Nintendo will do a good job with their online plan on the Revolution, but I fully agree that the $50 for Live is absolutely worth paying for. In fact, it's the single biggest selling point for the Xbox 360. I'm in love with high score tables on there as well as the Achievements, when executed well.

People really need to spend some time looking at a 360 that's got a Live Gold account to understand that there really is a lot of stuff there worth paying for and that it's what the new console is completely built around.

EDIT: I wrote about Live in my column this week. The arcades are back...
http://www.gamerdad.com/detail.cfm?itemID=2926

 

[Amir0x]

Explain to me why it's suddenly so important, though? We got by without it for years and years outside of some isolated occurrances?

If it's costing too much to make a game, you simply don't spend that money. Why does it cost 30 million to make a game? Where does that money go? If you have to turn to advertising to get part of that 30 million, and that's not going to help the customer out in any way, then what's the point?

Well for one, my opinion is that this isn't sudden. It was rare during the NES, SNES and PSX days, but during this generation we saw a fairly dramatic upturn in the amount of advertising we've seen in games.

Why is this?

Videogames for years have simply not been a particularly viable venture for advertising companies as they have not had the sort of pop culture penetration that lends itself well to this sort of thing. It isn't until PS2/XBX/GC generation when it REALLY exploded at the level it did, with media coverage at an all time high and userbases growing rapidly.

With next-gen, 360 and PS3 and Rev, we're at the point where the industry is on the crossroads. The rise of development costs is far outpacing the relative growth of the game industry, and never before has it promised to be so costly and risky with so little return. This means a lot of things, and it's expected that many hardcore gamers would react poorly to it.

Where does the money go?

It varies dramatically from company to company. Someone like EA might be spending it in a way you feel is not warranted for the return, but another company might actually need it to fund their new next-gen engine, or assets for a new game, or research for new gameplay possibilities (ala Rev). The spread is pretty vast. And occasionally, perhaps, one day we'll see some of the savings passed onto consumers as things level off cost wise.

Here's the crux of that... Can you tell the difference on-screen between something that cost $30 million and something that cost $28 million? I mean, are we really expecting ad revenue to be more than say, $2 million per game? What does that extra $2 million buy the publisher? Certainly the developer is not going to see that money.

Also, you don't have to say "That's just my opinion" because I fully understand that. We can disagree about things. It's ok.

Does revenue from advertising offer enough benefit for the sacrifice?

This is the part that's most difficult to debate. I honestly can't tell you. I don't have numbers in front of me, so i can't tell you how much they're getting from it. I can say that 2 million means a lot more to smaller development companies, and that such money can go a long way with dozens of different publishers/developers.

My opinion is that it is only natural the game industry moves this way, as it helps suppliment any number of costs as next-gen evolves.

 

[Prine]

Don't cum yet, I have the MS logo to show you:

Wasn't that nice?

What a prick.

 

[hadareud]

What a prick.

.

 

[Prine]

so basically you say, you like to spend money for stuff which other companies give you for free?

Show me one service as extensive and unified as XBL 360 with same range of quality games and online intergration. Theres nothing on the market that compares.

 

[Littleberu]

Show me one service as extensive and unified as XBL 360 with same range of quality games and online intergration. Theres nothing on the market that compares.

Every MMORPG. Battle.net. X-Fire. Etc...

 

[Justin Bailey]

sorry kojima, we gotta cut the boss and replace her with a more 'brand friendly' character. burger king's been on our ass about ad funding all week. hey, mariah carey's got a contract with em right? she fits perfect. i'll give her a ring and see how we can tie 'mgs4' with 'glitter 2: i'm not famous enough'! stay fresh baby.

oh, and snake has to wear these.

 

[hadareud]

Every MMORPG

yep. And we all know how MMORPG's tend to be free of charge ...

 

[fortified_concept]

What a prick.

I'm sorry I was just trying to help. I would never make fun of you or Xbox360 with its tremendous game liblary, powerful yet sleek design, unique hardware capabilities which trancend any future technology, brilliant XBLA service and -most important of all- the whole Dashboard/Live service, a phenomenal achievement, a standard that others will need to match.

 

[MrSardonic]

Show me one service as extensive and unified as XBL 360 with same range of quality games and online intergration. Theres nothing on the market that compares.

Well given that we havn't seen the Nintendo and Sony next-gen online services or games yet, I would argue that your point isn't really that great. If Nintendo's DS and Rev online service is free, then it is only fair to accept certain functional cut-backs as a trade-off.

 

[hadareud]

Well given that we havn't seen the Nintendo and Sony next-gen online services or games yet, I would argue that your point isn't really that great. If Nintendo's DS and Rev online service is free, then it is only fair to accept certain functional cut-backs as a trade-off.

You just made the point for MS charging for live though. Because they can argue that you should pay for something that doesn't have any trade offs or cut backs.

 

[Prine]

I'm sorry I was just trying to help. I would never make fun of you or Xbox360 with its tremendous game liblary, powerful yet sleek design, unique hardware capabilities which trancend any future technology, brilliant XBLA service and -most important of all- the whole Dashboard/Live service, a phenomenal achievement, a standard that others will need to match.

Not helping yourself here. All you do is rag on MS/X360, at any possible opportunity (which is fine) no need to be a prick about it though. You’re extremely obnoxious.

"Automated reply #5563! To the MAX!"

:lol Pretty much. Excuse me while i ebay my X360, how dare they offer me a HD-DVD !!!

 

[fortified_concept]

Wow, color me impressed. :lol :lol
That was pretty tasteless response to a rather benign statement,
wouldn't you say. Did he hurt your feelings? Piss on your mother?
Here, just in case you're feeling frustrated at all the lack of PS3
CES news, and since you seem to like the kinky shit:

It's ready, willing, and waiting. Just DON'T look it in the eyes, and no kissing on the lips. Oh, and make sure to clean up after you're done!

Here's a thought--try keeping that sophmoric shit to yourself unless you're called out. Makes you seem like a little less of an ass.

As for this interview, Allard confabulates like a drunk. He dances around the question with the skill and grace of a clumsy child hepped up on pixie-sticks and JOLT. He makes a couple of good points here and there, just not ones that are of any concern to ANYTHING the interviewer actually asked him.

"So, what are your thoughts on inroads you haven't made in Japan?"

"Automated reply #5563! To the MAX!"

OK this is getting out of hand. I'm sorry I don't take seriously your comrade but what anyone is supposed to reply to that post. 99% of his posts are pure MS PR. There are xbox fans and xbox fans. There are xbox fans like Speevy with whom I can have a good argument and there are xbox fanboys like Prine who just spew ridiculous MS PR whenever they see fit. I'm sorry I don't have no respect for fanboys like him. Gotta bail out. Bye.

 

[hadareud]

OK this is getting out of hand. I'm sorry I don't take seriously your comrade but what anyone is supposed to reply to that post. 99% of his posts are pure MS PR. There are xbox fans and xbox fans. There are xbox fans like Speevy with whom I can have a good argument and there are xbox fans like Prine who just spew ridiculous MS PR whenever they see fit. I'm sorry I don't have no respect for fanboys like him.

get a life. And use the PM function if that's what you were trying to say.

Plus, reading your comments in other threads there is nothing that shows that you are any different from what you just described.

Also, it is always suspicious if someone calls somebody else a fanboy. It takes one to notice one ...

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Basics. Granted, I made a thread about in-game advertising not too long along, but if it helps them keep pricing reasonable, then good for the industry.

Yea, I agree completely, but I'll go a step further and say I thought it was kinda kewl in games like Crazy taxy.

It was unabtrusive while the advertising definately caught the players eyes, similar to the way EA adverts it's games in the games they develop.

But the day I have to sit and wait through commercials or intros at the beginning or in the middle of loading I'm done.

In game billboards and signs are kinda neat and make them somehow seem more legit to me.

 

[RaidenZR]

E: Can you tell yet from preorders what the split is going to be between those with hard drives and those without for 360?

The safe thing to say is that it’s definitely going to be predominantly hard drive – that’s going to be the majority. But you’ve got to think about where we are in time and space. By 2008 it might be different, and it might be different for a couple of reasons. One because you’re hitting a more cost-conscious consumer and less hardcore consumer, and two, broadband’s going to be at another place in 2008. I think it took me 37 seconds to download Geometry Wars 2 on Live Arcade last night so now when I want to play it, it’s nice that I’ve cut 35 seconds out of it and it’s only taking me two seconds to stream it off the hard drive. But 37 seconds ain’t that bad! When we were waiting in line in the arcade and putting quarters in the machine and pressing Start and listening to the intro music – that was very close to 35 seconds. So if my broadband speed doubles over the next couple of years maybe I’ll be at the point where I don’t think I’ll need a hard drive for Live Arcade, I’ll just tune in. I’ll treat it like TV.

Okay is this guy really trying to equate going to the arcade to play a game to waiting for a game to download on XBL?

And furthermore, why are all of his responses just little anecdotes about his experience and his life, as if that applies in sweeping, generalized fact across the entire gaming populace. He's more than a bit of an imbecile if you ask me.

 

[Prine]

OK this is getting out of hand. I'm sorry I don't take seriously your comrade but what anyone is supposed to reply to that post. 99% of his posts are pure MS PR. There are xbox fans and xbox fans. There are xbox fans like Speevy with whom I can have a good argument and there are xbox fanboys like Prine who just spew ridiculous MS PR whenever they see fit. I'm sorry I don't have no respect for fanboys like him. Gotta bail out. Bye.

Oh noes, nbot doesnt respect me, cry me a fucking river

I might be a fanboy but your're deluded if you think your're any better. Fanboys that think they arnt fanboys, now thats sad.

 

[fortified_concept]

Oh noes, nbot doesnt respect me, cry me a fucking river

I might be a fanboy but your're deluded if you think your're any better. Fanboys that think they arnt fanboys, now thats sad.

If was such a fanboy it would be easy to recognize what kind of fanboy I am, wouldn't you? Anyway fyi I'm more of a sonybot than an nbot. Not that I like Nintendo any less (except NOE - they must die).

edit: M0dus calm down. If my humor upsets you that much, or you're just upset that I offended your comrade, use the ignore button on me. Not even Prine is that upset.

 

[Prine]

Uh oh, there goes my respect

 

[fortified_concept]

Eh? actually, I was pontificating more about the general state of the entire forum in the past few weeks. truth be told, this whole 'camp' bullshit is starting to get more than a little pathetic. But I'm touched that you assumed I cared

WHO WANTS A HUG!?

ME! ME!

 

[Shiggy]

How about the SOAP shoes from Sonic Adventure 2?

K-Swiss for the win :lol

 

[monkeyrun]

damage control to the max :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[hadareud]

damage control to the max :lol :lol :lol :lol

wtf?

 

[Last Hope]

Reminds me of his HD Era routine. He never answered questions about anything pre E3. If anyone asked him a question about the Xbox 2, he would start talking about the HD Era and not even answer the question.

 

[Borys]

:lol :lol :lol

The second page of this thread is fucking golden.

A Prine, fortified_concept and m0dus threesome. :lol

And that fucking robo-dog pic. Awesome!

 

[Amir0x]

wtg guys, a decent discussion on advertising in videogames ruined by fanboy drivel.

I gonna start huntin' rabbits.

 

[Amir0x]

Ironically, I think this thread was started about Allard not-so-expertly dodging questions.

But look at the bright side--at least NOBODY mentioned HD-DVD or BluRay


. . . wait . . . shit.

I know but then it evolved into something worth discussing! Not anymore, ho

We gotta start contamination free zones. ITT A FANBOY IS BANNED.