AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I agree older movies on film should retain the look of the film, with grain. I would just want a straight transfer from the negative.
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James Cameron on True Lies 4K complaints: ‘move out of mom’s basement’ and ‘ Get a life, people, seriously.’
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
I agree older movies on film should retain the look of the film, with grain. I would just want a straight transfer from the negative.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
That's real? Looks like an AI generated image, all it's missing is 6 fingers.
The goal with a film remaster should be to preserve and bring out the original detail as much as possible, not to mess with it. Upscaling technology can always be applied separately, to each viewer's preferences, and changes over time. If you mess with the transfer artificially we can't undo it.
Yeah, some one somewhere sold these guys the idea that "modern" audiences HATE film grain, so they go through ridiculous lengths to strip it away. But who is the audience for a 4k of 30-40 year old films? It ain't 20 year olds, its old guys like us that REMEMBER and APPRECIATE the grain, the flubs, the matte effects, the boom mic in the frame, cigarette burns, dust, all that stuff.
It must be data from streaming sites that suggest film grain is seen as a "ugh, old film", kind of like how black&white was seen as a negative once, with those atrocious colorization attempts. They are trying to compete visually with the ultra clean, but (to my eyes) soulless cinematography of today. Or maybe the compression algorithms they use to keep streaming bandwidth as low as possible gets tripped up on grain, so they encourage remasters to get rid of it?
Just do better James. I watched Hitchcock's Rear Window the other day on 4K blu. It blows your shite out of the atmosphere.
When the medium is on its arse as it is, it's probably for the best not to ridicule the tiny customer base you have because they just want good quality products. Knobhead
When the medium is on its arse as it is, it's probably for the best not to ridicule the tiny customer base you have because they just want good quality products. Knobhead
Watch that video posted above, seems like the films are FILLED with weird AI artifacts. You can't tell me that shit is just some byproduct of trying to scan film at 4k resolution, there is definitely fuckery afoot.
ManaByte
Gold Member
They played the Abyss and True Lies remasters on HBO Max in May 2020.
Mossybrew
Banned
Holy shit I had no idea things were this bad. I haven't upgraded anything in my collection to 4k because honestly I'm fine with Blu Ray quality and am not much into collecting physical media these days, but I'm glad I didn't waste money on these "upgrades"
So how do you explain the morphing faces, the shifting focus, and extrapolation errors? Did you watch the video?
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
One of the best sequels and action movies ever filmed 2,5 decades later still only available in the shitiest quality possible and it looks like untill other people will do the work for you, nothing will ever effin' change that. If you're too fuckin' lazy to do a proper 4K transfer / restoration and destroying your original work in the proccess instead, knowing full well that people hate DNR, asking you and waiting for the best versions of your movies for 2+ decades, just.... STFU
Yes, there have been HD versions of Cameron movies on streaming services at times over the years. No, it wasn't these. The new remasters didn't show up until a few months before the discs on digital stores.
These absolutely do have AI upscaling and it's not a secret. The company literally did an interview about the process. The reason Titanic and The Abyss look better is because they had newer more high resolution scans to start with so the AI had to do less heavy lifting.
violence
Gold Member
I think Titanic and the Abyss have real 4K scans. Aliens is literally the 2K Blu-ray and probably the same for True Lies.
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Yeah, Aliens is definitely the old scan. There's even a hair in the same spot as the old Blu. So for Aliens you potentially have an old 2k scan that was de-grained and then re-grained by Lowry back in the day, which is then sent to Park Road to be de-grained again and run through their AI upscaling method. Just layers of digital manipulation.
The True Lies source scan must be ancient. Maybe even the old D-VHS transfer.
I've heard the Titanic scan is fairly old, but was done in 4k so it was pretty future proof. The Abyss is probably a newer scan
SirKicksalot
Member
The intention is to make the screen disappear. With the grain altered it's like watching through an open window. They look very good in motion and HDR. True Lies looks like it was shot yesterday.
Fanmade scans of old prints are interesting but come with their own issues. How many generations deep is the scanned print? How used was it? Is it the correct film stock or is it a second-run theater copy? Did the chemicals decay? Are you watching it on a screen that matches the intended projection colour temp? Back in the 80s did you watch it with the intended projection light or with a nicotine stained bulb?
Some years ago Nolan multiplied a 1968 copy of 2001. Warner made a separate version for the home release based on the negative. The 2018 Warner version respects the original colour grading notes. The Nolan version is 100% bullshit despite being a copy of an original 70mm.
Godzilla 1998 is also an interesting case. It was made for a specific film stock, but the end product was printed on a different one for financial reasons. So the CGI elements and colour grading were not correctly displayed at release. A recent Blu-Ray restored the colours to how they were meant to be, so it's objectively correct but it does not look like the theatrical version.
Cinema lighting is still an issue today btw. You can watch something on two separate screens and have two different experiences. The bulbs are expensive to replace, or rhe projectionist doesn't care...
Fanmade scans of old prints are interesting but come with their own issues. How many generations deep is the scanned print? How used was it? Is it the correct film stock or is it a second-run theater copy? Did the chemicals decay? Are you watching it on a screen that matches the intended projection colour temp? Back in the 80s did you watch it with the intended projection light or with a nicotine stained bulb?
Some years ago Nolan multiplied a 1968 copy of 2001. Warner made a separate version for the home release based on the negative. The 2018 Warner version respects the original colour grading notes. The Nolan version is 100% bullshit despite being a copy of an original 70mm.
Godzilla 1998 is also an interesting case. It was made for a specific film stock, but the end product was printed on a different one for financial reasons. So the CGI elements and colour grading were not correctly displayed at release. A recent Blu-Ray restored the colours to how they were meant to be, so it's objectively correct but it does not look like the theatrical version.
Cinema lighting is still an issue today btw. You can watch something on two separate screens and have two different experiences. The bulbs are expensive to replace, or rhe projectionist doesn't care...
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The Stig
Banned
Could somebody explain to me what is the problem with just making a higher resolution scan of the original celluloid?
I remember learning in the early 2000s that digital scans of celluloid can be much, MUCH higher than DVD quality even then but we did not have the tech to transmit it and that was all that was holding us back.
Why do this AI shit?
I remember learning in the early 2000s that digital scans of celluloid can be much, MUCH higher than DVD quality even then but we did not have the tech to transmit it and that was all that was holding us back.
Why do this AI shit?
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T8SC
Member
Kittehkraken
Member
Because Jimmy loves new technology.
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Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
He's no friend to cinema if he thinks only "mom's basement" nerds care about preservation.
It's insane how douchey this comment is, so fuck something like Criterion or loads of other efforts at preservation then? What a bunch of NERDS!
It reminds me of the issue in the 80s when they would try to colorize black and white films, Cameron is an absolute chode for doing this, my guess is he's been brainrotted enough to hate True Lies because he sees it as sexist or racist or something and doesn't care, the only way we got it in HD at all is probably due to contract reasons.
It's insane how douchey this comment is, so fuck something like Criterion or loads of other efforts at preservation then? What a bunch of NERDS!
It reminds me of the issue in the 80s when they would try to colorize black and white films, Cameron is an absolute chode for doing this, my guess is he's been brainrotted enough to hate True Lies because he sees it as sexist or racist or something and doesn't care, the only way we got it in HD at all is probably due to contract reasons.
They don't want a high res version of a movie that looks like a film made in the 80's.
They want a glossy shiny video that looks like it was made yesterday.
I can only imagine they are also looking at TV shows framed in 4:3 instead of widescreen and trying to decide of AI can letterbox them automagically. Basically the reverse of the "pan n' scan" atrocities of the early DVD era. For animation this AI stuff probably works fairly well, same for brightly lit stuff without a lot of dynamic action, flashes, and explosions. But for special effect laden things and low light stuff it seems catastrophically bad.
dsp
Member
Didn't realize they were going to use the same shitty filter that is on the picture of every modern Youtube video as a way to fuck with old movies. The only people I respect that upload to Youtube are the ones who don't use that stupid fucking filter. That one that makes everyone's facial expression look far more dramatic and annoying.
On the other side of the movie spectrum are guys like Tom Cruise who blasted television makers for having that shitty soap opera effect as the default, begging manufacturers to stop doing that. Be more like Tom Cruise.
On the other side of the movie spectrum are guys like Tom Cruise who blasted television makers for having that shitty soap opera effect as the default, begging manufacturers to stop doing that. Be more like Tom Cruise.
A lot of people have that misconception of the resolution of older movies. Anything shot on 35mm film or higher are actually being down scaled to 4K, while many post-2000 movies were finished by way of a 2k digital intermediate. Even HDR is just talking advantage of the contrast found on film. It truly is a blessing that film was so future proof. Almost too good to be true.
Overall this is a very good time for home video. Even stuff like Side Kicks and Killer Klowns are getting beautiful new camera negative scans.
HAYA8U5A
Member
SJRB
Gold Member
Imagine being one of the most prestigious movie directors of all time and release a subpar product, and then go on record saying to people who are pointing that out and who are literal decades-long fans to "get a life and move out of mom's basement".
There's no reason to be a jerk about it.
There's no reason to be a jerk about it.
ManaByte
Gold Member
There never was a True Lies Blu-Ray in the US. Fox vaulted it after 9/11.
StueyDuck
Member
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
BobLeeSwagger
Banned
But it’s AI, thought we are all about it here
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
You know what I do respect the critiques but have to agree with James and his explanation of this. I'm not saying I agree with the language and connotation implies but I watch the newly releases and was very pleased. You have basically all the utmost and don't be vision implementation or some kind of hdr, they are pretty much definitive versions overall.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
James Cameron: “I could agree with you and do something about it, but I will adapt to “modern audiences” today and just throw a fit, call you names, and if you show me evidence I will just appeal to My Truth that the evidence is meaningless!”.
The Stig
Banned
Senua
Member
You're looking on your phone aren't you
Sony
Nintendo
What in the AI generated is this?
Tams
Member
Well, considering that my phone is very big, expensive, and probably the best display I have...
Senua
Member
But it's still small, if you had it up on a monitor blown up to a proper size, you'd see how terrible it looks
P:axMagellanic
Member
Cameron is a proper miserable cunt. People are literally cheering you on and offering money for you to do your best. What a bellend.
Dr.Morris79
Member
Phew, you Wot Cameron M8
Sounds like you've still got a few 'toxins' in your system, bruv
Go and have a Soy flush, ya melt.
Sounds like you've still got a few 'toxins' in your system, bruv
Go and have a Soy flush, ya melt.
Ristifer
Member
True Lies is one of my all-time favourite movies. So, to wait this long for this result is pretty disheartening. I still have the 4K at home and I'll happily watch it, just because I love the movie that much. But it's a shame that these things can't be celebrated as massive improvements because of shoddy tactics. And frankly, even if he is a giant douche, Cameron should still know better.
Dirk Benedict
Member
Curious. Do you also have Disney Stock?