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[Anth0ny]

But if he won all the time or had the perfect gimmick, people would complain that he's boring and that he is Cena 2.0 or something. I'm not going to go digging up posts, but I recall seeing people griping about his Kane segments with the doctor in here, because they were overdoing it. Pro wrassle fans are near impossible to keep happy, so maybe that's why WWE doesn't try. As long as that 5-12 demo keeps buying Sin Cara masks and John Cena shirts, who cares about IWC?

You didn't see people complain about Rock and Austin winning all the time during the Attitude Era. Because people wanted to see them win! They had great characters, cut strong promos, and had very good in ring matches.

Cena is none of the above. Bryan is all of the above, Punk is all of the above.

Not to mention Cena has been in this spot for 8 years now. I bet if Bryan was still doing the same old schtick 8 years from now everyone would be sick of him too, but the point is, he's been pretty fucking over since two Wrestlemanias ago, and he still hasn't WON THE BIG ONE. It's time. It's been time for months.

But it's not gonna happen.

 

[Jamie OD]

So is the "The Authority" still an angle?

Like it seems Triple H and Steph just show up whenever to hang out in the back

Probably put on hold until the Rumble.

 

[Conrad Link]

F**k this company.

 

[Aiii]

Bryan's won the big one. He beat Cena clean in the SummerSlam Main Event.

Sure he was screwed after, but he did win the big one.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

You didn't see people complain about Rock and Austin winning all the time during the Attitude Era. Because people wanted to see them win! They had great characters, cut strong promos, and had very good in ring matches.

Cena is none of the above. Bryan is all of the above, Punk is all of the above.

Not to mention Cena has been in this spot for 8 years now. I bet if Bryan was still doing the same old schtick 8 years from now everyone would be sick of him too, but the point is, he's been pretty fucking over since two Wrestlemanias ago, and he still hasn't WON THE BIG ONE. It's time. It's been time for months.

But it's not gonna happen.

Well Rock and Austin lost quite a bit as well, which is what made it exciting. I remember thinking the Corporate Ministry could be overcome and then nope, Austin would fail.
Title reigns were unpredictable. People would lose the title on Raw. I don't think there were any reigns that lasted more than 6 months.

Cena held the title for over a year and he buried the Nexus. And he's stale as fuck, which is what makes it all terrible

 

[Dr Duncan Steel]

Bryan's won the big one. He beat Cena clean in the SummerSlam Main Event.

Sure he was screwed after, but he did win the big one.

B+ show for a B+ player. Not good enough. Apparently the company share the same sentiment.

Spoiler

LOL we're never gonna be happy are we?

EDIT

LOL more Daniel Bryan time machine pics.

 

[bjork]

You didn't see people complain about Rock and Austin winning all the time during the Attitude Era. Because people wanted to see them win! They had great characters, cut strong promos, and had very good in ring matches.

Cena is none of the above. Bryan is all of the above, Punk is all of the above.

Not to mention Cena has been in this spot for 8 years now. I bet if Bryan was still doing the same old schtick 8 years from now everyone would be sick of him too, but the point is, he's been pretty fucking over since two Wrestlemanias ago, and he still hasn't WON THE BIG ONE. It's time. It's been time for months.

But it's not gonna happen.

I don't know what constitutes "winning the big one", but Bryan's been the champ. So has Punk. They get plenty of airtime, and the belt is a prop. Maybe this storyline with Bryan is dumb, but maybe (not likely, but maybe) it pays off in some big way at the end. If he was getting buried or misused, he'd be paid to sit at home until people forgot about him, or he'd be jobbing out to Sin Cara or something.

I don't really go for any Monday Night wars-era persona as an example of how a wrestler should be handled or presented, because everyone was over due to how big wrestling was in general. Buff Bagwell was over, for example. Doesn't mean he needed some lengthy title reign to justify it in the minds of whoever was his fan back then.

 

[UberTag]

I'd give WWE Creative major props if they turned Daniel Bryan's time-travelling abilities into an angle.

Of course, if they did they'd just go overboard with it like always and shop footage of Mechanic D.Brine on the Grassy Knoll during JFK's assassination and into the studio audience of the Letterman show when Lawler smacked Andy Kaufman.

 

[Aiii]

I would lol hard if they just superimposed Bryan over Chris Benoit in all old footage on the WWE Network and use that in the angle.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Could you always search Chris Benoit on wwe.com? Or is that a recent change?

 

[Data West]

Green Onions is a great album. Not wrestling related, but I just listened to it past the title song everyone knows, and it's awesome.

Could you always search Chris Benoit on wwe.com? Or is that a recent change?

There's a post a few pages back indicating that he'll be showing up again in WWE Network stuff.

 

[Aiii]

DDP really is a miracle worker.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Green Onions is a great album. Not wrestling related, but I just listened to it past the title song everyone knows, and it's awesome.



There's a post a few pages back indicating that he'll be showing up again in WWE Network stuff.

Hell yes that album is great.

And that's a pleasant surprise about Benoit. I'm sure everyone won't feel the same but I'm glad they aren't gonna be doing their Noob Saibot shit anymore.

 

[Data West]

Jake's return did make me go looking for Jake matches. Most of the good ones were taken off youtube, but I did find this great promo.

What a cool character for that time period. Outlandish but not cartoony, a guy you wanted to root for but knew he wasn't like your superheroes, a guy who didn't change when he turned face which just made him seem more like a badass than super cool guy, an awesome finisher, and a great look. And that music's so good. Everything about Jake was pretty much the link between Golden Age and Attitude Era, ironic that he would be the catalyst that was sacrificed to start said era.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Well Rock and Austin lost quite a bit as well, which is what made it exciting. I remember thinking the Corporate Ministry could be overcome and then nope, Austin would fail.
Title reigns were unpredictable. People would lose the title on Raw. I don't think there were any reigns that lasted more than 6 months.

Cena held the title for over a year and he buried the Nexus. And he's stale as fuck, which is what makes it all terrible

First, if you like unpredictable title reigns, go watch some Russo-booked TNA or late period WCW. People who aren't even wrestlers might win the title!

Second, to the "oh, Rock and Austin lost more" argument, remember, that for decent periods in both cases, they wrestled as heels. And in the WWE, heels lose a lot.

But, go to this link - http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2013/12/wwe-1997-2013-win-percentages.html

Steve Austin -
1998 - 96%
1999 - 90%
2001 - (his heel run) 56%
2002 - 82%

The Rock -
1999 - 57%
2000 - 67%
2001 - 73%
2002 - 71%

Again, thanks to the wonderful booking of Russo and Stephanie, I don't remember how long Rock was a heel or face during these runs.

And yes, Cena has average about 90% winning percentage since 2005. Well, guess what, he's the top face in the WWE. That's how the WWE has booked top faces since Bruno beat Buddy Rogers in 46 seconds.

With only one World title, you guys might want to get used to the fact that Bryan might _never_ get a significant title run. When Cena runs in a couple of years possibly, it's likely Roman Reigns, Big E. Langston, or Mojo Rowley will be the next 'Cena.'

If Bryan is this generation's Ricky Steamboat, is that the worst thing in the world? But, according to the Internet, the WWE booked themselves into 2000 WCW-type business around a decade ago, and languished there since then like All Japan post-split.

The constant negativity towards WWE since WM17 has never really stopped, it's numbing, people complaining about this not being the Attitude Era for 13 years now. And yet RAW this week did a hell of a number against football and the Rumble is already sold out and Mania will do a $10 million gate and probably big PPV business and they just sold out MSG for a house show.

 

[Lambda Pie]

Bryan will get a Rey style, "thanks for all the money you made us" title reign down the line.

wrestling is above all a business. the way you navigate around backstage determines how high up the ladder you can climb. Hogan had this down to a science and that's why he spent over 15 years at the top in 2 different companies.

workrate and being over with the fans alone hasn't mattered in ages to determine who gets the top spot.

 

[Data West]

Punk you should just stick to taking creepin on girls that are marks

 

[JesseEwiak]

workrate and being over with the fans alone hasn't mattered in ages to determine who gets the top spot.

Well, workrate has never mattered. Unless shooting/hooking is now considered workrate. As for Rey, I question whether he would've ever gotten a world title if there weren't two belts.

But, I would argue that in the era of TV rights fees and multiple revenue streams, the WWE has less and less reason to listen to the fans.

In the days of Memphis or World Class, if a show died and didn't draw, you'd know it immediately and have to try something different. Now, the money is guaranteed and with the Network, the only show that'll need a card to draw is Wrestlemania as the rest will basically be an extra three hour RAW on the network.

 

[British Monsoon]

The constant negativity towards WWE since WM17 has never really stopped, it's numbing, people complaining about this not being the Attitude Era for 13 years now. And yet RAW this week did a hell of a number against football and the Rumble is already sold out and Mania will do a $10 million gate and probably big PPV business and they just sold out MSG for a house show.

I don't really give a flying fuck how well their business is doing. If the product's trash in my eyes, then it's fucking trash, even if I'm in the minority with that opinion, even if millions are tuning in and buying the PPVs and going to shows. It's still fucking trash. Bryan being the next Ricky Steamboat wouldn't be a bad thing at all, if only there were some secondary titles actually WORTH A DAMN. But there aren't, because this is modern WWE and they're incapable of booking champions properly and incapable of booking challengers properly, to the degree that none of the secondary titles have been left with any merit and all the heels are utterly toothless. The fact that millions will keep tuning in anyway doesn't invalidate my opinion, it just means I'm a moron if I continue to watch a product I don't like. Which is also why I'm glad there's a wealth of better wrestling products out there. Pity so many seem content to just stick with WWE, when it so clearly enrages and infuriates them on a weekly basis.

 

[Lambda Pie]

workrate mattered. the better worker you were and the better you could make people look, the bigger the chance you had of climbing the ladder back in the day.

Flair, Race, Dusty, Baba, Thesz, Rogers were all rewarded for being excellent workers. it wasn really till late 70s/early 80s that fun gimmicks and pandering the crowd began replacing a good match.

 

[Toki767]

Bryan will get a Rey style, "thanks for all the money you made us" title reign down the line.

wrestling is above all a business. the way you navigate around backstage determines how high up the ladder you can climb. Hogan had this down to a science and that's why he spent over 15 years at the top in 2 different companies.

workrate and being over with the fans alone hasn't mattered in ages to determine who gets the top spot.

Which Rey title reign? His WWE title reign that lasted less than 2 hours? The World Heavyweight title probably didn't mean very much when Rey held it. And even when he held it, he was getting buried to The Great Khali at the time.

 

[JesseEwiak]

workrate mattered. the better worker you were and the better you could make people look, the bigger the chance you had of climbing the ladder back in the day.

Flair, Race, Dusty, Baba, Thesz, Rogers were all rewarded for being excellent workers. it wasn really till late 70s/early 80s that fun gimmicks and pandering the crowd began replacing a good match.

Eh, it depended on the territory. Fritz was a top draw for years in Texas without being much of a worker according to reports, The Shiek drew for 20 years in Detroit, the Crusher & Bruiser were selling out big shows in the Midwest for decades, Bruno was the man in the WWF for nearly a decade and a half, and so on, and so forth. Not that I'm saying all of these guys were bad 'workers', but if I bet most of the IWC would find their matches boring.

Of course, better workers ended up rising to the top, but there were plenty of 'plain' workers who probably worked in the midcard of some local territory that were just as good as Dory Funk Jr., but he didn't have the right character. And believe me, all the guys you listed, even Thesz had a character.

I don't really give a flying fuck how well their business is doing. If the product's trash in my eyes, then it's fucking trash, even if I'm in the minority with that opinion, even if millions are tuning in and buying the PPVs and going to shows. It's still fucking trash. Bryan being the next Ricky Steamboat wouldn't be a bad thing at all, if only there were some secondary titles actually WORTH A DAMN. But there aren't, because this is modern WWE and they're incapable of booking champions properly and incapable of booking challengers properly, to the degree that none of the secondary titles have been left with any merit and all the heels are utterly toothless. The fact that millions will keep tuning in anyway doesn't invalidate my opinion, it just means I'm a moron if I continue to watch a product I don't like. Which is also why I'm glad there's a wealth of better wrestling products out there. Pity so many seem content to just stick with WWE, when it so clearly enrages and infuriates them on a weekly basis.

At least your consistent. If you're pissed with RAW, stop watching RAW. It's 2014, you don't even need to know how to trade tapes to watch some of the best wrestling in the world. Or hell, go online and watch 3 hours of random NWA shows on Youtube instead of RAW.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Vince knows Husky Harris can't wrestle right? Why are they trying to elevate someone who is dogshit?

 

[Lambda Pie]

of course they all had characters, it wasn't UFWi where everyone was a shooter wearing shin pads and their promos consisted of "i'm gonna break his legs"..

even Bruno was the "immigrant blue collar guy living the American dream", that was his thing. think about it, if Bruno came around in the 80s he would probably be an evil Italian heel drawing heat by claiming pizza was superior to hot dogs and fed for a couple of months to Hogan.

Vince knows Husky Harris can't wrestle right? Why are they trying to elevate someone who is dogshit?

we're just discussing something that touches that, how a good character and having "fans" backstage overcomes being a poor worker.

i'd say HHH is behind that.

 

[Aiii]

For alot of people, wrestling is more than just in-ring matches. And you'll be very hard-pressed to find a consistent alternative to WWE for that.

It's a shame really that TNA never steps up to the plate and provides that. Hopefully ROH will fill that void or whatever company Spike goes to when their contract with TNA expires around September.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

of course they all had characters, it wasn't UFWi where everyone was a shooter wearing shin pads and their promos consisted of "i'm gonna break his legs"..

even Bruno was the "immigrant blue collar guy living the American dream", that was his thing. think about it, if Bruno came around in the 80s he would probably be an evil Italian heel drawing heat by claiming pizza was superior to hot dogs and fed for a couple of months to Hogan.



we're just discussing something that touches that, how a good character and having "fans" backstage overcomes being a poor worker.

i'd say HHH is behind that.

He's not just poor that, he is fucking pathetic. Like you would have to sponsor him through the Christian Children's Fund just so he could run the ropes properly and have running water in house.

 

[JesseEwiak]

For alot of people, wrestling is more than just in-ring matches. And you'll be very hard-pressed to find a consistent alternative to WWE for that.

It's a shame really that TNA never steps up to the plate and provides that. Hopefully ROH will fill that void or whatever company Spike goes to when their contract with TNA expires around September.

There's never going to be a legitimate #2 in the US again until there's another crazy rich guy who owns (or is the VP in charge) of TV stations who loves wrestling enough to allow it to lose millions a year...and also be able to get old stars from the WWE and set up an angle that'll spark viewership.

Ya' have to remember, for the 8-10 year old Cena fans, they have no concept of wrestling with more than the WWE as a major player. It's going to take as much luck and skill as WCW had in the mid-90's.

 

[charsace]

Bryan's won the big one. He beat Cena clean in the SummerSlam Main Event.

Sure he was screwed after, but he did win the big one.

Where he beat one arm Cena? It wasn't a clean win and WWE let us know it.

 

[jmdajr]

For alot of people, wrestling is more than just in-ring matches. And you'll be very hard-pressed to find a consistent alternative to WWE for that.

It's a shame really that TNA never steps up to the plate and provides that. Hopefully ROH will fill that void or whatever company Spike goes to when their contract with TNA expires around September.

No doubt. I wouldn't even watch if that was the case.

They gave Batista a lot of crap for saying wrestling is stories..but well it's true.
Granted you can tell stories just in the ring but it's not enough for me.

 

[jmdajr]

pretty cool!

 

[Man God]

So when is this wrasslin announcement?

 

[Hasney]

So when is this wrasslin announcement?

09:30pm ET

 

[jmdajr]

So when is this wrasslin announcement?

Tonight. 8:30. Forgot what time zone.

 

[Man God]

Good, I'll be off work then. Just glad it wasn't mid afternoon.

 

[Hasney]

I'll be sleeping and I'll probably check here first for the news, so I'm hoping you'll all be crazy with hyperbole with praise or damnation. Maybe even tie the announcement in with more evidence that Daniel Bryan is being buried.

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

I hope the network has an app available on PS3/PS4 from the boot. Considering they already stream PPVs on PS3, it'd be silly for them not to. It'll be interesting to see what content they plan on having play on there for the first year.

 

[Lambda Pie]

here's a special match for you guys:

Ken Shamrock vs Matt Hume - Pancrase: Road to the Championship 2, 1994
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5stbNT25_1g

bit of backstory:

Pancrase was formed by Suzuki and Funaki in the early 90s as an avenue to showcase their shoot fighting skills, heavily borrowing the ruleset from the UWFi promotion they were part of at the time.

this Shamrock match in particular is special though, as it is a shoot-style worked match, therefore a wrasslin match, Hume admitted years later.

it's a testament of how the shoot-style they worked at time could make people believe with was a legit contest.

for fans of shoot-style stuff it's a must with amazing technique involved.

Shamrock career is well documented while Hume went on to become a rather good trainer.

 

[Rapstah]

I'll be sleeping and I'll probably check here first for the news, so I'm hoping you'll all be crazy with hyperbole with praise or damnation. Maybe even tie the announcement in with more evidence that Daniel Bryan is being buried.

"The WWE Network™ will be your first stop to see your favourite WWE Superstars™, like John™ Cena or the World's Largest Athlete™, the Big Show™."

Kind of topical, I was reading through some old Figure 4 Online newsletters and this is in the August 27th, 2007 one:

Smackdown vs. Raw may miss its November deadline as Vince is going back and forth about whether to leave Chris Benoit in the game. He's in it now and Vince wants him out, but to have him removed would require the game being delayed and they'd miss out on the 2007 holiday season revenue, which is always the most lucrative quarter for video games.

So even at a point where they had started editing Benoit out of PPVs, and where WWE was in full damage control mode about their drug testing policy, Vince personally was considering letting Smackdown vs. Raw 2008 release with Benoit in it. I guess it could also read as Vince wanting the game to be delayed with anonymous others wanting it released for the money.

It ended up releasing in November 2007 with Benoit edited out of all versions so it apparently worked out for them.

 

[BFIB]

Pretty excited for the Network launch. Odds on the launch date? My guess is WrestleMania, with it being included if you sign up for the Network, which I will gladly do.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Anyone want to see rampage brown twat a scarecrow, tin man and Dorothy for a very ugly 4 minutes?

http://youtu.be/lhWLPSfaXiI

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

Pretty excited for the Network launch. Odds on the launch date? My guess is WrestleMania, with it being included if you sign up for the Network, which I will gladly do.

I believe there was a leak/word that it would premiere the day after Elimination Chamber. That may or may not have changed.

 

[jred2k]

I just hope they don't do something really stupid like have the network only work through the WWE App. I could really see them doing this, though, as a way to try and push the app.

 

[jmdajr]

I just hope they don't do something really stupid like have the network only work through the WWE App. I could really see them doing this, though, as a way to try and push the app.

As long as the APP is on android, windows, ps3, ps4, xbox etc....

 

[Kaladin]

I just hope they don't do something really stupid like have the network only work through the WWE App. I could really see them doing this, though, as a way to try and push the app.

I can't wait for Michael Cole to explain how to sign up for WWE Network.

Ratings!

 

[Rapstah]

And from the September 3rd (edit: 2007, that is) F4 newsletter here's the first trace of ideas for programming that we're now getting:

The company is considering adding new original programming to WWE 24/7. There have been a number of ideas discussed, everything from "completely sleaze", whatever that means, to reality shows featuring the legends. In other words, poor knockoffs of Hogan Knows Best. I think that idea works if you have the right legends. If you have a guy with an awesome personality it's easy. If you don't, I can imagine it being wretched television.

 

[Xater]

As long as the APP is on android, windows, ps3, ps4, xbox etc....

I don't think you can do something like this and not be on basically everything.

 

[darkside31337]

As long as the APP is on android, windows, ps3, ps4, xbox etc....

Yep!

I will sign up its available on the PS3 and/or PS4 but really have no interest if its not.

 

[BronsonLee]

Apparently Kaitlyn left WWE today? That's what Twitter tells me anyway

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

I can't wait for Michael Cole to explain how to sign up for WWE Network.

Ratings!

Every half hour they'll have him explain how to download and boot up the app on a different device lol.

 

[Ithil]

http://www.wwe.com/inside/kaitlyn-no-longer-under-contract-with-wwe-26174579

So uhhhhh, Kaitlyn just left WWE. Random.
Would explain why

Spoiler

she has a match with AJ on Main Event, it's a farewell.

I'm gonna guess it's because she got engaged, she wants to settle down and get married instead of being on the road.