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[The artful mincer]

Hot take: it absolutely should be.

I strongly disagree. The only thing I want from a reviewer is to make clear precise non bullshit arguments and transparency. (That's why comments like "game lacks soul can get fucked)

We all have different skills and experience I don't have much in common with a casual player but I also don't have much in common with an obsessive speed run nutter either with 2000 plus hours on a single game.

Transparency is vitally important if your a beginner or playing on easy you should tell us then we can take it or leave it.

Some popular youtubers lack skill or play on easy. Angry joe has definitely played some games on easy. (One of many reasons I don't care for his opinions)

 

[KWAB]

Sounds like preemptive damage control to me. You see Redfall is the Dark Souls of co-op shooters and if it's reviewed poorly it's because journalists aren't good enough.

 

[Pedro Motta]

IGN should commit Seppuku.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I strongly disagree. The only thing I want from a reviewer is to make clear precise non bullshit arguments and transparency. (That's why comments like "game lacks soul can get fucked)

We all have different skills and experience I don't have much in common with a casual player but I also don't have much in common with an obsessive speed run nutter either with 2000 plus hours on a single game.

Transparency is vitally important if your a beginner or playing on easy you should us then I can take it or leave it.

Some popular youtubers lack skill or play on easy. Angry joe has definitely played some games on easy. (One of many reasons I don't care for his opinions)

The issue is not that some play on Easy, but that some simply can't play games *period*. You can study mechanics all day long and metrics of audience interaction - but you can't review or discuss a product like video games without knowing how to play games. It would be like reviewing non-braille books as a blind person. Or reviewing films as a blind person.

 

[winjer]

I don't know about gaming journalists in Japan, But in the west, they are a pathetic joke.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I don't know about gaming journalists in Japan, But in the west, they are a pathetic joke.

Modern japanese gaming journalists are kind fo like the golden age of WEstern gaming journalism in magazines. You know they are bought out with a few grumpy fuckers, but they are a hype machine that make you love video games and what is coming.

 

[RJMacready73]

Aren't western game "journalists" nothing more than inept bloggers running their drivel through chat GPT to make legible and to add as much woke bollocks as they can into their "articles"

 

[Dr. Claus]

Aren't western game "journalists" nothing more than inept bloggers running their drivel through chat GPT to make legible and to add as much woke bollocks as they can into their "articles"

No. Western gaming "journalists" are failed authors/journalists who came into gaming with a chip on their shoulder because they couldn't hack it in the real world. So they do everything in their power to "raise up" the "lowly incel gamers" and to promote "real world causes" (aka, slacktivism). Lazy fuckers who couldn't hack it in the real world so they want everyone to be as miserable as they are.

And this isn't coming from my ass either. I have spoken with a number of notable "journalists" in the space from the likes of Kotaku and Polygon and this is literally them.

 

[RJMacready73]

I give up reading game reviews, half of them write far too much drivel into the opening or some life experience shite that I have zero interest in reading about, I just want to know is the bloody game good, not some existentialism post modernism bollocks on the current political landscape wrapped around a review of some fucking platform game and after Eurogamer's stance on one of the biggest games of the year... "Oh noes we can't cover a game cause the author stated what a fucking woman is and isn't encase we offend the perpetually offended"... I give up reading any other gaming websites and instead rely on this wretched hive of scum and villainy for all my gaming related news

 

[DenchDeckard]

Imagine turning up to review the new bugatti and being like, I don't have a driving license but I've driven a go kart once at a mates birthday.

That's what games journalism is now a days.

 

[The artful mincer]

The issue is not that some play on Easy, but that some simply can't play games *period*. You can study mechanics all day long and metrics of audience interaction - but you can't review or discuss a product like video games without knowing how to play games. It would be like reviewing non-braille books as a blind person. Or reviewing films as a blind person.

Isn't this a bit of a strawman? How many reviewers are so incompetent that they can't even finish a game on easy?

I guess the cuphead video is an extreme example. People laugh at the doom 2016 footage but do know who didn't? Hugo Martin.

As bad as it looked that player was still able to get through that part of the game. That footage actually influenced doom eternals game design. I.e they figured if a player can play like that and still beat the game they probably won't be having fun. So they designed eternal to discourage that kind of play.

At the end of the day we aren't forced to read any review.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Isn't this a bit of a strawman? How many reviewers are so incompetent that they can't even finish a game on easy?

I guess the cuphead video is an extreme example. People laugh at the doom 2016 footage but do know who didn't? Hugo Martin.

As bad as it looked that player was still able to get through that part of the game. That footage actually influenced doom eternals game design. I.e they figured if a player can play like that and still beat the game they probably won't be having fun. So they designed eternal to discourage that kind of play.

At the end of the day we aren't forced to read any review.

Not a strawman, just an argument that the issue isn't "easy" games, but that there are people who shouldn't be in this industry. DOOM 2016 and Cuphead are just two examples.

Sure, we dont need to read their reviews - but the credibilty of the site/magazine goes down if they allow people like this to write articles/publish gaming related content.

It would be akin to hiring a food critic to suddenly talk about geothermal energy in deep ocean vents. That would be absolutely retarded. That isn't their wheelhouse and it is very clear that they have no reason to be doing so.

 

[The artful mincer]

Not a strawman, just an argument that the issue isn't "easy" games, but that there are people who shouldn't be in this industry. DOOM 2016 and Cuphead are just two examples.

Sure, we dont need to read their reviews - but the credibilty of the site/magazine goes down if they allow people like this to write articles/publish gaming related content.

It would be akin to hiring a food critic to suddenly talk about geothermal energy in deep ocean vents. That would be absolutely retarded. That isn't their wheelhouse and it is very clear that they have no reason to be doing so.

 

[Agent_Nobody]

Games """Journalist""" bad at playing games? Well I never.

Surprised this is the one that Japanese people had an issue with though, we have countless examples of Journalists being inept at playing games and instead seem more interested in talking about the social and political ramifications of games.

Like this ol' classic:

Should have just hired a pigeon:

 

[Hypereides]

This is why you should never fully believe what media says about gameplay, combat systems and level of challenge.

Which makes a large swath of modern day video game reviews very suitable and viable for scrutiny.

Why would or should anyone trust the final review verdict when the reviewer either isn't very fit to assess games to begin with or half-assed their way through it? - Would that even be considered a fair, legitimate review and analysis?

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't some publications do dual reviews once where two individual reviewers would assess and argue a game from two differing angles? - like, hardcore and casual? Maybe they ought to bring in something like that.

 

[ManaByte]

When the qualifications for being a games journalist were reduced to how they look while licking a game handheld, it all went downhill.

 

[The artful mincer]

Not a strawman, just an argument that the issue isn't "easy" games, but that there are people who shouldn't be in this industry.

Why shouldn't they? What is your minimum criteria to be a game reviewer. Should there be the equivalent of a driving test?

OOM 2016 and Cuphead are just two examples.

You just gonna ignore that the frigging director found value in that footage? As result of that footage Eternal became a more hardcore shooter for better or worse ( Let's be honest for better). If they had just listened to good players the game would have likely ended up different.

Sure, we dont need to read their reviews - but the credibilty of the site/magazine goes down if they allow people like this to write articles/publish gaming related content.

Who cares about a sites integrity. If you don't like it don't read it. Other people might find value in it. What about independent youtubers etc?

It would be akin to hiring a food critic to suddenly talk about geothermal energy in deep ocean vents. That would be absolutely retarded. That isn't their wheelhouse and it is very clear that they have no reason to be doing so.

Now this is a strawman. Games are subject experiences as long as someone can articulate there thoughts in a clear concise manner they should be able to review games. (Again with transparency) Everyone has different experiences and ability levels so it makes sense that reviewers should mirror this

 

[lughnasadh123]

The offense people take at someone playing like shit is baffling to me.

 

[GHound]

Criticism isn't enough! Gotta bust out the pitchforks.

 

[Shut0wen]

I don't think you should be required to be super skilled at all games to be a games journalist, but it'd make sense if it'd at least look like you're trying to enjoy yourself while playing.

And maybe someone else should at least take a look at the footage that goes out the door before publishing it.

Definitely not but the fact that 99% of fps games are pretty basic and play the same says ign is way more interested in writing then the games themselfs

 

[SportsFan581]

Like this ol' classic:

I feel like this user should have put up a long play of their entire play though, would have been epic. Google may have needed to update the storage capacity at YT though.

 

[Boots_the_God]

They should stick to using B-roll if people are worried about seeing the game in it's best light. My issue is the fact they recorded it, watched, edited it, watched it again and thought it was good enough to put out. I'm more disappointed in the people allowing that footage to be seen them I am of the person not being good at the game

 

[Saber]

Japanese are absolutelly right. Western are an embaressment in gaming.

The funny side is that they rather prioritize complaining about sexuality and representation. And then go to Twitter "defending" themselves eveytime someone calls them.

 

[ahtlas7]

How the fuk did they record my screen?

 

[AmuroChan]

I mean, what do you expect when these outlets are more interested in hiring activists vs actual gamers?

 

[Killer8]

I strongly disagree. The only thing I want from a reviewer is to make clear precise non bullshit arguments and transparency. (That's why comments like "game lacks soul can get fucked)

We all have different skills and experience I don't have much in common with a casual player but I also don't have much in common with an obsessive speed run nutter either with 2000 plus hours on a single game.

Transparency is vitally important if your a beginner or playing on easy you should tell us then we can take it or leave it.

Some popular youtubers lack skill or play on easy. Angry joe has definitely played some games on easy. (One of many reasons I don't care for his opinions)

It's all fair and good if a reviewer is being transparent that they are bad at the game. But i'm sorry, their opinion basically becomes worthless to me at that point. If they aren't even able to engage with the basics of the product, then it's hopeless to rely on them for a deeper understanding of whether the product is good or not.

The Polygon Doom video is a perfect example. How can I possibly know about how good the ebb and flow of the combat is, if the game is balanced well, if the enemies are fun to fight etc etc, if the reviewer can't even kill one enemy without fumbling?

I'm not expecting reviewers to be experts here, but at least have a minimum level of standards. This is their job after all.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Why shouldn't they? What is your minimum criteria to be a game reviewer. Should there be the equivalent of a driving test?

Knowledge of the field and basic functioning brain.

You just gonna ignore that the frigging director found value in that footage? As result of that footage Eternal became a more hardcore shooter for better or worse ( Let's be honest for better). If they had just listened to good players the game would have likely ended up different.

People can find value in a dookie taken on the street. Doesn't mean it is good.

Who cares about a sites integrity. If you don't like it don't read it. Other people might find value in it. What about independent youtubers etc?

Do you know how businesses work? I don't think you do.

Now this is a strawman. Games are subject experiences as long as someone can articulate there thoughts in a clear concise manner they should be able to review games. (Again with transparency) Everyone has different experiences and ability levels so it makes sense that reviewers should mirror this

There is no value in reading a review or someone's experience if they are incapable of playing the game. Or reading the book. or watching the movie. That isn't a strawman.

Why are you so intent to defend these morons?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It wasn't just the lack of skill in the IGN player that made the game look bad.

The game itself just...looks bad. eSports pros could've been playing it but that wouldn't make up for the bland graphics, shadow pop-in, braindead AI, bad FOV, middling enemy character designs and other lacking elements seen in the recent footage.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Western game "journalists" are just Reddit mod tier political commenters now. I haven't seen a Western game "journalist" actually talk about video games for a decade or more.

The Japanese love Harry Potter for some reason and they should be happy that the Western game "journalists" all conspired to pretend Hogwarts Legacy doesn't exist, that legit improved the quality of public discourse around the game. Maybe they should have tried to boycott Redfall too!

 

[Shits_McGiggles]

Things get scary when you start breaking down the influence of western games journalists. Whether you like it or not, the gaming community is influenced by these games journalists. The aggregate scores all games get completely dictates the way games are viewed by the community.

How many games were ignored simply because these games journalists were too stupid to understand how to play the game? How many games have been disregarded because these game journalists thought they were "too good' for games that try to be more fun than serious?
Worst of all, how many game developers internationally have been influenced by these game journalists? The political drivel that these game journalists spew is taken as majority opinion of Western gamers, and as such the game developers/publishers kill creativity for the sake of homogenized crap just to appeal to the morons who write articles about games.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Do we know yet who was so terrible at the IGN game preview? Were they really that bad, or could they possibly be trying to make the preview bad on purpose?

 

[gundalf]

Since most gamers are bad at playing games, I don't see the problem here...
Most gamers will play Redfall the same way, or worse, then those gaming journalists.

Should only great players review ou showcase games?... Short answer is NO.

Most games are rather bad at explaining the game mechanics properly and don't put effort in helping players build intuition to further deep dive on their own without feeling like nerds.

Xenoblade 2 is sooo bad at this, its criminal.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

This isn't real...there's no way this is real.

How the fuck can someone even get a job in this industry if it takes them almost 2 minutes to figure that shit out!?

That's what happens when people get jobs based on political beliefs over passion and skills.

 

[The artful mincer]

It's all fair and good if a reviewer is being transparent that they are bad at the game. But i'm sorry, their opinion basically becomes worthless to me at that point. If they aren't even able to engage with the basics of the product, then it's hopeless to rely on them for a deeper understanding of whether the product is good or not.

This is not about you or me getting value from a review it's about getting broader perspectives. E.G.I f there a beginner or casual player it might be of value to similar players. Or they might be bad at the game but able to articulate there thoughts very well. If they thought of something I haven't that's at least interesting.

The Polygon Doom video is a perfect example. How can I possibly know about how good the ebb and flow of the combat is, if the game is balanced well, if the enemies are fun to fight etc etc, if the reviewer can't even kill one enemy without fumbling?

He probably won't know any of that. But if he can finish the game on easy he's entitled to write a review about his experience. It may have value to other players who play on that difficulty.

I'm not expecting reviewers to be experts here, but at least have a minimum level of standards. This is their job after all.

Well I would argue there job is more about writing or editing. If you dont like them for whatever reason you can just ignore them so wants the problem?

 

[KormaChameleon]

I've got no problem with journalists being bad at games. I do have a problem when they try to pin their error as a flaw towards the game. This is how you get laughed at and get branded as a joke.

 

[The artful mincer]

Knowledge of the field and basic functioning brain.

Knowledge of the field is vague as hell. Give me some concrete shit. I.e. would you find value in review played in easy mode?

People can find value in a dookie taken on the street. Doesn't mean it is good.

We not talking about a dookie on the street. We talking about the Director of one of the most hardcore shooters in recent memory just keep dodging the question.

Do you know how businesses work? I don't think you do.

I don't give a flying fuck about any of these publications bank balance. That's for them to work out. Which is my point they can employ who ever they want and you and me are free to read them or ignore them.

There is no value in reading a review or someone's experience if they are incapable of playing the game. Or reading the book. or watching the movie. That isn't a strawman.

Other than the cuphead video this literally describes nobody. Even the doom guy was still making progress through the level

Why are you so intent to defend these morons?

Because gatekeeping reviewers to some arbitrary skill level seems even more moronic.

Why do you care about individual reviewers skill level when you can ignore them and there's a million skilled youtubers catering to your needs. Nobody's pointing a gun to your head nobody's gonna die if Jimmy polyeurogamer twatnose doesn't understand Nioh's loot system. What is the issue?

 

[CrustyBritches]

Obligatory…

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

It's not "gatekeeping", it's about competency. You wouldn't want someone to work on your car's brakes that didn't have an idea what they were doing, and you wouldn't want someone to review a movie you were interested in if they couldn't understand the plot. You wouldn't want someone to build your house if they weren't a carpenter, so why is it ok to let the inept take part in a game preview that will be seen by thousands of people?

Telling people to "just ignore" incompetence is a bit irresponsible.

 

[Killer8]

This is not about you or me getting value from a review it's about getting broader perspectives. E.G.I f there a beginner or casual player it might be of value to similar players. Or they might be bad at the game but able to articulate there thoughts very well. If they thought of something I haven't that's at least interesting.

He probably won't know any of that. But if he can finish the game on easy he's entitled to write a review about his experience. It may have value to other players who play on that difficulty.

Well I would argue there job is more about writing or editing.

Their job is assessing a product and then conveying their thoughts about it via writing or editing. Their ability to write about and play the games is therefore equal parts important, because the latter will inform the content of the former. Gaming is an interactive medium, not a passive one, and so just 'writing' about it can't exist in a vacuum. It needs participation from the person who'll later write about it. And that often requires some level of competence.

I think it bears clarification of what competence actually is. Someone playing on easy mode like Angry Joe doesn't mean they are incompetent. He may need to drop the difficulty to get by or have fun, but he can still actually play the game adequately in the b-roll footage in his videos. Several game journalists cannot even get to grips with the basic controls, like the Polygon footage shows and what the Japanese are making fun of - why are we defending such a low bar exactly, when any other job done so poorly would catch criticism?

I also highly doubt the type of gamer who you say would find value in this even exists. People do not tend to seek out reviews written by people similarly as bad at games as they are to get their opinions. Just like someone who's bad at cooking will not tune into cooking videos made by an incompetent chef to get recipe ideas. No, people tend to seek out competent people's opinions ('the experts') first and foremost.

If you dont like them for whatever reason you can just ignore them so wants the problem?

You seem to be very upset about something that people say they already do, but then turn around and prescribe the exact same thing.

"Opinions of journalists who are bad at games are worthless and don't deserve my attention"

"How dare you, if you don't like it why don't you just ignore it"

lol

 

[Dr. Claus]

Knowledge of the field is vague as hell. Give me some concrete shit. I.e. would you find value in review played in easy mode?

We not talking about a dookie on the street. We talking about the Director of one of the most hardcore shooters in recent memory just keep dodging the question.

I don't give a flying fuck about any of these publications bank balance. That's for them to work out. Which is my point they can employ who ever they want and you and me are free to read them or ignore them.

Other than the cuphead video this literally describes nobody. Even the doom guy was still making progress through the level

Because gatekeeping reviewers to some arbitrary skill level seems even more moronic.

Why do you care about individual reviewers skill level when you can ignore them and there's a million skilled youtubers catering to your needs. Nobody's pointing a gun to your head nobody's gonna die if Jimmy polyeurogamer twatnose doesn't understand Nioh's loot system. What is the issue?

Just be honest. You are a gaming "journalist" aren't you? That is why you have a stick up your arse and are desperate to defend them?

Get a new job.

 

[Hypereides]

Things get scary when you start breaking down the influence of western games journalists. Whether you like it or not, the gaming community is influenced by these games journalists. The aggregate scores all games get completely dictates the way games are viewed by the community.

How many games were ignored simply because these games journalists were too stupid to understand how to play the game? How many games have been disregarded because these game journalists thought they were "too good' for games that try to be more fun than serious?
Worst of all, how many game developers internationally have been influenced by these game journalists? The political drivel that these game journalists spew is taken as majority opinion of Western gamers, and as such the game developers/publishers kill creativity for the sake of homogenized crap just to appeal to the morons who write articles about games.

 

[The artful mincer]

It's not "gatekeeping", it's about competency. You wouldn't want someone to work on your car's brakes that didn't have an idea what they were doing, and you wouldn't want someone to review a movie you were interested in if they couldn't understand the plot. You wouldn't want someone to build your house if they weren't a carpenter, so why is it ok to let the inept take part in a game preview that will be seen by thousands of people?

Telling people to "just ignore" incompetence is a bit irresponsible.

Well in some of those examples people's life are on the line so obviously we need standards there.

What do you mean by inept or incompetence? Some players just lack skill and they can't do much about that . Not understanding mechanics might be on the player but it also might on the game as well.

I ve said all along transparency is really the key I .e if your playing on easy or lack experience in a genre or franchise this should be made crystal clear in the review so your audience can make informed decisions. As long as your doing that not much else matters as far ss I am concerned at least

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Well in some of those examples people's life are on the line so obviously we need standards there.

What do you mean by inept or incompetence? Some players just lack skill and they can't do much about that . Not understanding mechanics might be on the player but it also might on the game as well.

I ve said all along transparency is really the key I .e if your playing on easy or lack experience in a genre or franchise this should be made crystal clear in the review so your audience can make informed decisions. As long as your doing that not much else matters as far ss I am concerned at least

If you watched the IGN preview for Redfall, surely you saw the ineptitude of the person previewing the content. Maybe some IGN journalist let their young kid take the controls? There's just no excuse to be THAT bad at something they are supposed to be, at the very least, decent at, in order to have that job.

Sure, it's not life or death here, but all employees are expected to perform at a minimum standard, regardless of the position.

 

[The artful mincer]

Just be honest. You are a gaming "journalist" aren't you? That is why you have a stick up your arse and are desperate to defend them?

Get a new job.

You got me by the balls there mate.

I confess I am not a game journalist but I do worship them. I have posters on my bedroom wall of Adam Sessler, Greg Miller and Arthur Gies which I jerk off too every night.

I will bow out of this thread defeated.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

G4 Reportedly Asked Potential Hosts To Argue In Favor Of "Cancelling" Batman "Because He’s Rich And He’s White"

Popular streamer MissClick has alleged that during a job interview with G4, the network asked her to argue in favor of 'canceling' Batman.

boundingintocomics.com

gee wonder why American gaming "journalism" is such a joke

 

[bender]

Having not played that...stand further back to compensate for the animation?

 

[The artful mincer]

If you watched the IGN preview for Redfall, surely you saw the ineptitude of the person previewing the content. Maybe some IGN journalist let their young kid take the controls? There's just no excuse to be THAT bad at something they are supposed to be, at the very least, decent at, in order to have that job.

Sure, it's not life or death here, but all employees are expected to perform at a minimum standard, regardless of the position.

I have not but I will take your word for it that they are terrible.

I dunno motor skill is something your born with and can't change.

Maybe IGN should have higher standards as they are the biggest news site. However there should definitely be a review niche for lesser skilled gamers and that's before you even get into stuff like accessibility.

Personally I want there too much criticism and gaming discussion as possible and any kind of skill requirement would probably limit that.

 

[bender]

However there should definitely be a review niche for lesser skilled gamers and that's before you even get into stuff like accessibility.

I don't really care about the skill of a reviewer or how they choose to play, though when they ask for design changes that's a different can of worms, but would be useful is to accompany a review with some simple facts about the play session: difficulty chosen, hours played, times completed if any, etc.. And I'm guessing most reviewers capture the majority of their play time these days so that would be a nice companion to their reviews as well. While neither of those are likely, especially the second for fear of being the next example of what has been referenced in this thread, it would serve to add context to the reviewer's thoughts on their experience.

And speaking of the Doom reference in this thread, I always figured it was a KBM player being handed a controller when they aren't used to that input method.

 

[The artful mincer]

I don't really care about the skill of a reviewer or how they choose to play, though when they ask for design changes that's a different can of worms,

Well they can ask for them but they shouldn't be surprised if they receive backlash etc.

but would be useful is to accompany a review with some simple facts about the play session: difficulty chosen, hours played, times completed if any, etc..

Totally agree would be great to know all this stuff.

And I'm guessing most reviewers capture the majority of their play time these days so that would be a nice companion to their reviews as well. While neither of those are likely, especially the second for fear of being the next example of what has been referenced in this thread, it would serve to add context to the reviewer's thoughts on their experience.

And speaking of the Doom reference in this thread, I always figured it was a KBM player being handed a controller when they aren't used to that input method.

Interesting possibility . Could be that he just had terrible motor skills right at lowest point on the bell curve.

Funny that as a response Eternal was designed to kill players that played like that

 

[bender]

Well they can ask for them but they shouldn't be surprised if they receive backlash etc.

Mostly thinking of the recent trend of Souls-like needs an easy mode which runs counter to the fundamental design of those games.

Could be that he just had terrible motor skills right at lowest point on the bell curve.

Possible sure, but I'm guessing I didn't look too much different from that when I picked up my first dual analog FPS. The only similar experience I can think of is the first time driving a warthog in Halo. That final mission made me want to break things as I still hadn't got the hang of it.