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Japanese P.M. publicly scolds Obama over Okinawa murder commited by former US Marine

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H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/shinzo-abe-scolds-obama-223566

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-pm-shinzo-abe-slams-obama-over-despicable-okinawa-murder/

"I feel profound resentment for this self centered and despicable crime," Abe said, through his translator. "This case shocked the entire Japan."

"I have asked the president to carry out effective measures to prevent a recurrence of such crimes,” Abe said.

Obama, who'd only just landed in Japan for the G7 meeting and for then what was supposed to be a forward-looking reconciliation visit with Abe to Hiroshima on Friday, said he is trying to address Abe's concerns and offered his "sincere condolences and deepest regrets" for the incident.

Obama pledged full cooperation. "This has shaken up people in Okinawa as well as people throughout Japan," Obama said. "We consider it inexcusable and we are committed to do everything we can to prevent any crime of this sort ... The Japanese people should know how deeply moved we are about what has happened."
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Seems like Abe ambushed Obama with this public dressing down. He definitely seems a bit flustered and not just because of the nature of the crime but it looks like this was something he was not prepared for. I think there should most definitely be a discussion but I do think its a low blow on Abe's part to just spring this Obama when he's coming to do such things like Visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There is a video of the incident in the second link, what does GAF think? Looked for another thread on this, publicly scold me if old.

Also for those wondering about the murder case that caused all this, its one of a latest string of incidents on Okinawa stretching back a few decades that had exasperated relations between locals and the US military presence on the island.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/world/asia/japan-okinawa-murder-obama-visit.html?_r=0

The Okinawa victim, Rina Shimabukuro, 20, an office worker from the city of Uruma, disappeared in the evening on April 28 after having gone out for a walk, according to Japanese news accounts.

The suspect, Kenneth Franklin Gadson, 32, who goes by his Japanese wife’s family name, Shinzato, was arrested exactly four weeks later, on May 19.

Mr. Shinzato, who is originally from New York and served in the Marines, was a civilian employee at Kadena Air Base, a major American military installation on Okinawa, and lived with his wife and child in the city of Yonabaru, about 22 miles south of Uruma.
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Crimes committed by Americans on Okinawa have long been an issue on the island. The most notorious was the rape of a 12-year-old schoolgirl by three American servicemen in 1995, which set off mass protests.
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A

akira28

Member
Its not that hard to control your own people in another country if you give a damn.

Does America really give a damn is my question?
 
M

maxcriden

Member
I think the ordinary thing to do is to give a heads up to the visiting head of state. Even if Obama seems surprised, I'd he surprised if he wasn't told in advance that this would be mentioned. I'm not sure this is really a public shaming rather than Abe simply expressing the importance of this issue internationally, to the Japanese populace and making public his agreement with America that they will assist with the prosecution. All of this is just my spitballing, though, I'm not informed on the matter beyond what's in the OP.
 
F

Fat4all

Banned
I have a friend who was with the Navy and placed in Japan for a while, and he would tell me that there was always a lot of tension between the Americans and Japanese businesses specifically. Small incidents would happen all the time, but they were usually able to smooth them over. But the way he made it sound, both the Americans and Japanese were ready to fight each other if it came to it.

Though after he left, he said it might of just been certain groups of members of the Navy riling up the locals and souring it for the others.
 
Robot Carnival

Robot Carnival

Member
akira28 said:
Its not that hard to control your own people in another country if you give a damn.

Does America really give a damn is my question?
Click to expand...

a friend of mine had stationed in Okinawa for more then 18 years back in the days and from the stories he told me, it feels like just any other situation; there are always a few bad apples ruining it for everyone.
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
Tagyhag said:
Abe flip-flopping like a motherfucker.
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That's what he does.

If the country were more willing to be politically active, he'd never have even come to power.

But my god, the gen pop my age gives 0 shits about the Diet or Prime Minister. It's shocking how little they care.
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
These kinds of crimes have been going on in Okinawa for decades, right? They aren't likely to be stopped without dealing with the core issue, which is the occupation.

hamauzu kaito said:
Abe must be feeling the Trump since he actually wants nuclear weapons. Psh, this is embarrassing.
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Slightly OT but it's not the worst idea, Japan and South Korea developing nuclear weapons. Both countries could do so quickly, and it would be a possible counter to China's ambitions in the region. There are down sides too, of course.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
ApharmdX said:
These kinds of crimes have been going on in Okinawa for decades, right? They aren't likely to be stopped without dealing with the core issue, which is the occupation.
Click to expand...
The main issue as far as I know is that the majority of Japan is completely fine with the situation. The current leadership is firmly pro-US presence.

It's the people of Okinawa who are opposed to it.

Basically, NIMBY.
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
ApharmdX said:
These kinds of crimes have been going on in Okinawa for decades, right? They aren't likely to be stopped without dealing with the core issue, which is the occupation.



Slightly OT but it's not the worst idea, Japan and South Korea developing nuclear weapons. Both countries could do so quickly, and it would be a possible counter to China's ambitions in the region. There are down sides too, of course.
Click to expand...

It's ABSOLUTELY the worst idea. Japan as a fully independent actor with the current conservative government would be a disaster.

And yeah, there have been crimes, but the percentage is extremely low and the occupation for the most part has been extremely successful and beneficial for both sides.
 
C

Calabi

Member
akira28 said:
Its not that hard to control your own people in another country if you give a damn.

Does America really give a damn is my question?
Click to expand...

How do you do that?

Do you put control collars on your people that explode if you deviate from social norms?
 
C

Corronchilejano

Member
Frozenprince said:
Come on.

Yes, it's horrible these things occur, but incidents don't mean that the president and the DoD don't care.

Of course they care, they care for the simple reason that if this continues then they lose the base on Okinawa.
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I'm glad military interests are placed well above basic human rights for the US.

No, they don't. If anything, they wonder what it's going to take to sweep it under the rug.
 
A

akira28

Member
SecretDan said:
The guy murdered someone. How do you control someone that wants to murder?
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by putting the fear of god into your personnel anytime they step off post. when all it takes is one phone call to ruin your career and have you sent back to bum fuck Egypt, Idaho, people will learn to relax.
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
Frozenprince said:
It's ABSOLUTELY the worst idea. Japan as a fully independent actor with the current conservative government would be a disaster.

And yeah, there have been crimes, but the percentage is extremely low and the occupation for the most part has been extremely successful and beneficial for both sides.
Click to expand...

Toxi said:
The main issue as far as I know is that the majority of Japan is completely fine with the situation. The current leadership is firmly pro-US presence.
Click to expand...

How do you stop the crimes, if the percentage is extremely low? If it's not a systematic problem (and I don't think it is) but just an occasional incident that serves as a lightning rod for anger, then the only way to address it is to remove the base.
 
H

Hazmat

Member
akira28 said:
by putting the fear of god into your personnel anytime they step off post. when all it takes is one phone call to ruin your career and have you sent back to bum fuck Egypt, Idaho, people will learn to relax.
Click to expand...

The threat of a demotion prevents...murders?
 
S

sangreal

Member
akira28 said:
Its not that hard to control your own people in another country if you give a damn.

Does America really give a damn is my question?
Click to expand...

Of course it is. It's hard to control your people in your own country. This was a widespread problem even during the occupation when the US desperately wanted to appease the local population

As for the protocol breach raised in the OP, I think Obama does this frequently so its all good -- most recently in Cuba
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
Toxi said:
As far as I know is that the majority of Japan is completely fine with the situation. The current leadership is firmly pro-US presence.

It's the people of Okinawa who are opposed to it.

Basically, NIMBY.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say firmly pro-US presence. Abe has flip-flopped quite a bit with his nationalism and pro-base stances.
 
M

MoeDabs

Member
akira28 said:
by putting the fear of god into your personnel anytime they step off post. when all it takes is one phone call to ruin your career and have you sent back to bum fuck Egypt, Idaho, people will learn to relax.
Click to expand...

If someone doesn't care about the repercussions of committing murder, I doubt a threat of a phone call is gonna stop them.
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
Corronchilejano said:
Except they rarely do.
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tumblr_ndo3fjrKIZ1qcjdp7o1_500.gif


I need hard numbers. Not just opinion pieces and conjecture.
 
H

Hazmat

Member
akira28 said:
I'm talking about military crimes in foreign countries where we have necessary long term presence.



It promotes an abundance of caution.
Click to expand...

But it doesn't prevent murders or gang-rapes. It would stop some guys from having one too many at a bar and getting rowdy, but it does nothing to prevent serious crimes.
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
I personally witnessed a Marine run over an Okinawan mother and her children. I kid you not, happened within 10 feet of me (I was in the adjacent lane).

I just looked it up, apparently she went to jail for 2 years.
 
M

Mesousa

Banned
Toxi said:
As far as I know is that the majority of Japan is completely fine with the situation. The current leadership is firmly pro-US presence.

It's the people of Okinawa who are opposed to it.

Basically, NIMBY.
Click to expand...

Well no shock the actual people who have to deal with these people in their lives are the most likely to have issues with them.
 
j0hnnix

j0hnnix

Member
Maybe the Japanese should remember how many Chinese woman they raped and mutilated - I guess they forgot after the bombs were dropped. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Japanese have been quick to attack the US for Obamas visit but have they apologized to the Chinese men and woman they murdered in the millions since 1938 - 1945? Maybe they forgot their kamikaze attacks in Okinawa killing upwards of 5-12k US soldiers.

I feel sorry for the woman and children involved on both sides of this war or any war but war has never been pretty. I think we as people who are not involved think to forget this.
 
A

akira28

Member
jmxxii said:
Maybe the Japanese should remember how many Chinese woman they raped and mutilated - I guess they forgot after the bombs were dropped. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Japanese have been quick to attack the US for Obamas visit but have they apologized to the Chinese men and woman they murdered in the millions since 1938 - 1945? Maybe they forgot their kamikaze attacks in Okinawa killing upwards of 5-12k US soldiers.
Click to expand...

^^ ?? what does any of that have to do with any of this?
and the fucking shrug...dude?
 
T

Toxi

Banned
jmxxii said:
Maybe the Japanese should remember how many Chinese woman they raped and mutilated - I guess they forgot after the bombs were dropped. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Japanese have been quick to attack the US for Obamas visit but have they apologized to the Chinese men and woman they murdered in the millions since 1938 - 1945? Maybe they forgot their kamikaze attacks in Okinawa killing upwards of 5-12k US soldiers.

I feel sorry for the woman and children involved on both sides of this war or any war but war has never been pretty. I think we as people who are not involved think to forget this.
Click to expand...
What the fuck does this have to do with the topic? What a shitty deflection.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
jmxxii said:
Maybe the Japanese should remember how many Chinese woman they raped and mutilated - I guess they forgot after the bombs were dropped. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Japanese have been quick to attack the US for Obamas visit but have they apologized to the Chinese men and woman they murdered in the millions since 1938 - 1945? Maybe they forgot their kamikaze attacks in Okinawa killing upwards of 5-12k US soldiers.

I feel sorry for the woman and children involved on both sides of this war or any war but war has never been pretty. I think we as people who are not involved think to forget this.
Click to expand...

What does any of this have to do with crimes taking place in modern Okinawa? How does "war has never been pretty" relate at all to this?
 
C

Chairmanchuck

Member
jmxxii said:
Japanese have been quick to attack the US for Obamas visit but have they apologized to the Chinese men and woman they murdered in the millions since 1938 - 1945?
Click to expand...

They actually have but it was more like an apology you give when you hit your brother, because he hit you first and you say "I am sorry Mom."

What does any of this have to do with crimes taking place in modern Okinawa?
Click to expand...

I guess "whataboutism"?
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
jmxxii said:
Maybe the Japanese should remember how many Chinese woman they raped and mutilated - I guess they forgot after the bombs were dropped. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Japanese have been quick to attack the US for Obamas visit but have they apologized to the Chinese men and woman they murdered in the millions since 1938 - 1945? Maybe they forgot their kamikaze attacks in Okinawa killing upwards of 5-12k US soldiers.

I feel sorry for the woman and children involved on both sides of this war or any war but war has never been pretty. I think we as people who are not involved think to forget this.
Click to expand...

Abe was pressured by the people of Okinawa. What Americans don't realize is that Okinawans really didn't consider themselves part of the Empire of Japan in WWII and they got sandwiched by Japan and the US. Now they have the base that takes up more than half their island. This is way more complicated than just Japan's actions in the war.
 
C

Corronchilejano

Member
Frozenprince said:
tumblr_ndo3fjrKIZ1qcjdp7o1_500.gif


I need hard numbers. Not just opinion pieces and conjecture.
Click to expand...
Then I'll have to retract myself (and so did all the raped women) because the US military does not allow prosecution of their own kind and refuses to provide information to Colombian news sources.

If somehow you are actually interested and not actually looking for a cheap win, Google "US soldiers rape Colombians". Maybe you'll be luckier in finding something in English.
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
teruterubozu said:
Abe was pressured by the people of Okinawa. What Americans don't realize is that Okinawans really didn't consider themselves part of the Empire of Japan in WWII and they got sandwiched by Japan and the US. Now they have the base that takes up half their island. This is way more complicated than just Japan's actions in the war.
Click to expand...

Transitioning the bases more and more to the mainland (something Abe and his conservative Diet has opposed, BTW) is a perfectly legitimate complaint and reason.
 
j0hnnix

j0hnnix

Member
teruterubozu said:
Abe was pressured by the people of Okinawa. What Americans don't realize is that Okinawans really didn't consider themselves part of the Empire of Japan in WWII and they got sandwiched by Japan and the US. Now they have the base that takes up more than half their island. This is way more complicated than just Japan's actions in the war.
Click to expand...

I understand but the bigger picture is how this is coming up as after Obama not apologizing or any US apologizing. my point might be considered shitty but it's not unwarranted as to what they have done in the past as well. The rape occured in 1995 by a US Marine(former).. It doesn't make it right but why bring this up now?
 
A

Althane

Member
Corronchilejano said:
Then I'll have to retract myself (and so did all the raped women) because the US military does not allow prosecution of their own kind and refuses to provide information to Colombian news sources.

If somehow you are actually interested and not actually looking for a cheap win, Google "US soldiers rape Colombians". Maybe you'll be luckier in finding something in English.
Click to expand...

Doing so revealed news stories in 2015, but no real closure to the story. Here's what I've seen.

The linked report was published in February 2015. I don't read Spanish at the level required to translate this report, so I followed up on a couple of news articles:

http://time.com/3823044/colombia-us-soldiers-rape/

http://www.npr.org/2015/04/11/398948800/army-reviewing-rape-charges-against-u-s-troops-in-colombia

http://www.progressivepress.net/u-s...-raped-54-children-in-colombia-report-claims/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/08/colombian-report-u-s-troops-raped-54-kids.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-32618880?ocid=socialflow_twitter

All of which mention the accusations and charges, in varying political views. However, I didn't really find anything post mid-2015 about it. Which means that it could be in review, dismissed, or anything.

I would disagree that the US military does not prosecute its own kind, though. I know several lawyers that work for the military, and they are kept pretty busy with plenty of rape accusations, assault, etc.

Edit: Also, please keep in mind that I spent maybe 6-7 minutes looking at articles trying to find something from this year. I'll continue looking, but topics move fast sometimes. Although not so much in this case.
 
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