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Japanese P.M. publicly scolds Obama over Okinawa murder commited by former US Marine
- Thread starter HStallion
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Just to be clear there was a much more recent murder by a former marine of a 20 year old female contractor. The 95 incident was of a 12 year old girl by 3 US military members. Might not have made that clear enough in the OP.
teruterubozu
Member
Well that's why I said it's way more complex. There are multiple agendas going on here including Abe pulling a fast one On Obama, but the plight of the Okinawans is legit. They didn't pillage and rape anyone.
j0hnnix
Member
No matter what it's horrible... And I'm not condoning it either both sides have done astrocities. Past or recently it's unacceptable.
BronsonLee
Member
What's wrong with Idaho you little bitch
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
Every suspected serious crime, including sexual assaults, committed by service members abroad is literally an international incident, with immediate reporting up the chain of command to the highest levels and mandatory involvement by law enforcement. I'm afraid that you're just misinformed about this issue -- as far as Japan goes, at least.
I can't speak to the Colombian issue, only to the Japan: I was a military lawyer stationed there from 2009-2011.
Frozenprince
Banned
Thank you.
Megalosaro
Banned
Wasn't there just a murder or rape not too long ago? Not to mention that helicopter crash
Just making sure there wasn't undo confusion and I wasn't condoning crimes or warcrimes from either side but I don't think this is something that has much with the Japanese Empires warmachine during WW2. Seems like its a small island with two many people on it and people from very different cultures. This would happen anywhere else in the world if this situation was recreated and left to fester like this. I just figure the conversation should be had instead of possibly stalling or putting it off by bringing it up in such a manner which makes everyone get defensive. Obama can't mind control every would be murderer to stop in his tracks when about to commit a crime but there should probably be a real discussion about the status of the base, of course world politics with entirely other countries might snuff out that possibility before it ever had a chance.
Corronchilejano
Member
Thanks for the clarification, because it definitely doesn't apply to Colombia.
Later I'll post more about the subject if anyone is interested. Never has a US soldier been convicted for crimes done in Colombian soil, including selling weapons to right wing paramilitary groups.
stump sock
Member
fuck off, Abe
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
There are already plenty of procedures where this is already the case.
The problem is some people either don't think they'll get caught or flat out don't care.
I'm interested in hearing more about the rape accusations, and how that's viewed in Colombia. But without more information on how it's been handled, i'm not sure that there's much meaningful discussion to be had.
But, because I'm a contrarian, I did want to point out this news article.
Edit: Also, some things to discuss are the concept of policy vs. technical controls. Policy controls rely on people thinking that the rules apply to them. There's not really a technical control on preventing people from being asses.
That is completely false. Its called the UCMJ and military personnel are convicted all the time. Does corruption exist? Yes, but it's far from the norm. Non-judicial punishments are also used for minor infractions or if there wasn't any/enough evidence to prosecute under the UCMJ. Basically, unless you are an officer of substantial rank, the US military will find a way to fuck you if you fuck up.
If you would like to link the story you are referring to for proper context then do so.
Corronchilejano
Member
If we're strictly speaking about public perception of these rape accusations, the general population believes that the US soldiers got away with it, period.
In reality there's no way of knowing if these soldiers were prosecuted in the US. They'll never face Colombian law because they have immunity.
I meant prosecution under national law. I assume that US soldiers have their own justice system to deal with.
If you think this is obvious, keep in mind that Colombian military personnel have been sent to the US for crimes done in US soil via extradition. The circumstances are different though and I am no lawyer. I speak with a civilian perception.
Hi. Posted a few links about the story up there as a reply to him. However, they're all from mid-2015 and I haven't found anything more recent yet.
What kind of stories have been published in Colombia about it? Like I said, I wasn't able to find anything post mid-2015, which either means that it was ignored, nothing came of it, or it's still under review. And for an incident like that, I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to keep it under wraps until they found more out about it in order to try to maintain public relations.
Well their country attacked a base killing hundreds of innocent soldiers un provoked.
This dude murdered someone.... you dont think that ruins your career and leaves you probably in a cell?
You musn't be this naive. Someone loony enough to murder isn't going to be thinking "awwww shucks, I might get a demotion". The fuck kind of stuff is that? If the repercussions of MURDER isn't enough to remove the motivation to take a life, a freaking demotion and a relocation sure as hell isn't going to cut it.
If that was the case, the murder rates in the States itself would be hilariously lower. Lunatics that murder people don't work the way you seem to think they do.
Corronchilejano
Member
None. The biggest case (Olga Castillo's daughter) is almost ten years old already. I doubt public relations are of importance for anyone.
We just need Sgt. Akira there and murder will be a thing of the past.
I'm sure the strong speech and fear of prosecution will stop the killers.
Well the GOP will be glad you said that when people in New York start suing Saudi Arabia for actions committed by individuals from the on 9/11.
Cipherr I wasn't speaking about this specific murder case, but more generally.
Well I was referring to troops and mil/gov civilians, not 'Americans on foreign soil'. And hey yeah, sue the fuck out of saudi arabica, I'm down with it.
We just need Sgt. Akira there and murder will be a thing of the past.
I'm sure the strong speech and fear of prosecution will stop the killers.
and the beatings will also help morale.
...the killers
MikeHattsu
Member
Yes, the murder was discovered last week, which is why this was brought up during the visit.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/19/japan-us-air-base-worker-arrest-murder
Yes, they do and it is certainly not to their benefit. They aren't going to get off light in most cases.
Since I'm not familiar with the case you are talking about I honestly can't say. But speaking as a former enlisted man, if you fuck up overseas you're fucked a couple times over. They aren't in the habit of rallying around low level personnel.
As for why they weren't prosecuted locally, I don't know, but I would assume that is part of the agreement Colombia made with the US.
Just going through them, thanks.
Yeah Obama just needs to release an executive order that covers Japan like the one he enacted in the US to bring the murder rate to 0.
The fuck?
yes because this is Obama's problem to take care of. And I expect him to do something about it soon.
Thee fuck.
hamauzu kaito
Member
Yeah but that's what this visit is about ( or why it's so high profile) and those who don't believe this is some type of public shaming are I think missing the point. Abe knows the undertones of this visit and is making a point to rally public support for his bolstering of Japan's forces.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
is a murderer a murderer if they never had the opportunity to murder? Are you a talking dog?
Is it my question about whether America cares that has people riled, or the assumption that I'm trying to retroactively prevent pre-meditated murder with base restrictions?
The problem is that your solution is just so mind-numbingly stupid. If punishment worked perfectly then there would be crime, and that is all your suggestion is, more punishment on top of a life sentence.
There isnt much Obama can do besides trying to ensure that the military only accepts good people and that the culture of the military and its bases don't promote any of this shit. That isnt a perfect solution because there will always be bad apples that seep through the cracks and there will always be people who make horrible decisions in the heat of the moment.
Obama isnt God. He cannot control people's actions.
Yeah, I'm not seeing what their line of thinking is.
There's terrible people everywhere.
I was being sarcastic. It has nothing to do with obama.
freeofgreed
Member
Can he do both?
Clearly, what America needs is a secret police that follows around every American living abroad 24-7 and makes sure they don't commit any crimes.
Oh wait that's a stupid idea, and America can't prevent all crimes committed overseas by Americans any more than it can prevent all crimes committed in America by Americans.
While I do feel the bases are a problem, and should be moved, i also feel these are two different issues.
There is an aire of hipocracy whenever people get up in arms about these foreigner related incidents. If its a soldier, "move the bases! the soldiers are all bad!", the refugee guy from months ago there was a chorus of "stop all the refugees!", but week after week you see new cases on tv about women being killed by Japanese jealous ex lovers or stalkers, or whatever. Its an epidemic, and it's something no one even thinks to talk about. Partly because it's a male dominated society, partly because the laws protecting women are dog shit (ex. stalking laws cover harassment via faxes but not email and text messages), and partly because the concept of mental health here basically is non existent (hello suicide rates.)
Japan has a man problem, or more specifically a men killing women problem. You'd think a fan stabbing an idol 20 something times in broad day light would make people reflect on the toxicity of idol culture and male entitlement when it comes to women, but nope. Just another completely isolated incident.
That said, there is a definite problem with holding specifically Americans on bases responsible for the crimes they commit, and that's definitely something we (America) should be more transparent about.
Abe is a piece of shit though who's only pretending to care so he can look tough for his right wing voters. His approach to women's needs has been a total farce from the outset, and everyone knows he's pro-base anyway.
Netherscourge
Banned
Pearl Harbor wasn't enough of a surprise for America?
Zen_Arcade
Banned
If people kill other people here we literally put them in a cage in a prison. Even that doesn't stop people from killing each other.
Putting someone in Idaho isn't going to deter them from committing a murder.
the idea is to create an environment so disciplined as to deter fraternization and the relationships that can develop into trouble with the locals.
If America was afraid that every time someone stepped off base it would be a potential national security and sovereignty issue with the citizen being fully under the authority of local law enforcement before the UCMJ, you can probably bet that anyone off base would be on their tippy toes.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
You just described a law. Those things that we have here that don't stop all people from doing bad things.
Jesus, this is the first time I've heard of this. Fucked up.
freenudemacusers
Member
Well, would you want a military person to be under local law enforcement? Especially in areas where say, women are given significantly less rights the men?
Also not sure where you get the impression that military people aren't battered over the head wrt potential security and diplomatic issues due ot negative behavior overseas.
It comes from the fact it's not very transparent to Japanese people. So the assumption is that they get off scott free (even though they don't). And they want Japanese justice in cases where Japanese people were involved.
I'm sure that's worked out nicely for you but human beings like to do things like make friends, be sociable and find romantic partners. Living segregated from anyone different than yourself isn't a value the military should be promoting.
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