ChuckeRearmed
Member
If not for Hogwarts Legacy, the whole WB Games would be on chopping block.
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Jason Scheier/Bloomberg: Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League is Dead on Arrival. Rocksteady has been working on it since 2017.
FunkMiller
Member
Seven fucking years for this… thing.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
WB’s CEO wants money, nothing else. His pocket book will have to hurt before he stops believing in this trend. MTX focused multiplayer is soulless uninspired cash grabs. I think if this industry crashes it won’t be surprising at all.
FullMetalx117
Member
You know hilariously on their previous conference call, Warner was hyping up the gaming division and signaling more investment into it. CFO told the analysts “I had to double check, triple check to make sure the ROI was indeed that high” blah…he sounded very excited. Of course the return he was talking about was for Hogwarts Legacy. Interested to see how the amateur CFO (for gaming) reacts to sales for this
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Damnit man why did you have to remind me about Evangelion. This masterpiece sends me on a depressing nostalgia trip like no other.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
we'll all have to see the games sales and sub plan strategy.
As a benchmark, Marvels Avengers came out Sept 2020. It came to PS+ July 2021 and Game Pass Sep 2021. So that games was 10-12 months after launch.
Codes 208
Member
It still pisses me off they took down multiverses, even after people paid real money for cosmetics
Fabieter
Member
Self-fulfilling prophecy. Isnt it nice i told you so. Dont care for the game but articles like that should launch after the game bombed to hell.
Quantum253
Gold Member
The writing was on the wall when Marvel's Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy performed poorly. Both are way more popular than the suicide squad and the initial reveal was met with lackluster enthusiasm. It will be released and slowly drift into obscurity.
It would be very interesting to have the honest perspective of the people who made the game. They were probably completely on board with the idea of making a hybrid multiplayer game with story elements initially. They probably underestimated the task.
It seems it's easier for multiplayer focused studios to start on a pure gameplay loop basis (with all the fat removed) and from there try to explore and expand lore, characters and story. I don't really have a successful example with the opposite side. Bungie is kind of in between.
There's also the fact that the people who loves Rocksteady are traditional solo or variety players for the most part. And that now that GAAS is a very well known model with its lovers and haters, the audience is split in two entranched side. Perhaps it was less the case when they started the project, they didn't think it was that much of a leap, but now people are taking it as a big middle finger.
It seems it's easier for multiplayer focused studios to start on a pure gameplay loop basis (with all the fat removed) and from there try to explore and expand lore, characters and story. I don't really have a successful example with the opposite side. Bungie is kind of in between.
There's also the fact that the people who loves Rocksteady are traditional solo or variety players for the most part. And that now that GAAS is a very well known model with its lovers and haters, the audience is split in two entranched side. Perhaps it was less the case when they started the project, they didn't think it was that much of a leap, but now people are taking it as a big middle finger.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
O
Oh! I forgot about the Multiversus. It was the huge thing for a moment of time and then it just disappeared.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Guardians was not a GaaS MP game. Stop pretending it is when you obviously never played it.
ManaByte
Gold Member
They released it with a $100 founders pack, and then said thanks for playing the beta and deleted the game.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why are you hating so much. The man is doing his job. Christ man..... Some of you guys.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It's single player gamers. They didn't buy enough of their previous games to continue on that trajectory. Rocksteady made the switch because previous games were making them nervous.
Dr_Ifto
Member
I still think this will sell well. My 15 year old says that all his friends want to play it, and they arent really keeping up with the buzz. It will get at least 5m copies sold. They probably want 15+ but Im thinking 5m first year. It will be on PS+/Gamepass before the game is 2 years old.
Quantum253
Gold Member
Whether I played it or not, Guardians still didn't sell well.
Astral Dog
Member
Bad managment can kill a good studio, and Rocksteady was certainly good
tbh im not sure if its gonna bomb
maybe its not a disaster it just looks like a downgrade
tbh im not sure if its gonna bomb
maybe its not a disaster it just looks like a downgrade
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Astral Dog
Member
Afaik the Arkham games sold well and were critically acclaimed, specially for a then unproved studio
They were big back then, Wikipedia says their preorders even surpassed CoD
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VenomousCoffee
Member
It kind of already has killed Rocksteady, as a whole bunch of the old crew left over the course of development. It's not really the same studio that produced the Arkham games (which I love to death).
I think the game is going to bomb, partly because it's the Avengers game, only later in the cycle and with a less well known cast, but also because it just looks unappealing. I watched some of the gameplay videos and it just looks annoying to play, with too much happening on the screen. And then throw GAAS stuff on top of it, and it all seems pretty hopeless.
I'd be there on day 1 for a SP Suicide Squad game actually done in the style of Arkham Knight (and with the same care and attention to gameplay), but this isn't it at all.
I think the game is going to bomb, partly because it's the Avengers game, only later in the cycle and with a less well known cast, but also because it just looks unappealing. I watched some of the gameplay videos and it just looks annoying to play, with too much happening on the screen. And then throw GAAS stuff on top of it, and it all seems pretty hopeless.
I'd be there on day 1 for a SP Suicide Squad game actually done in the style of Arkham Knight (and with the same care and attention to gameplay), but this isn't it at all.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Regarding Multiversus some of you gaffers are chatting about above, I had to google what happened.
It launched in beta and had 150,000 steam players in summer 2022. Then the gamer base dropped like a rock and the game got removed and functionality stopped in 2023.
Who knows what now. But their website says it's relaunching in 2024(?).
It launched in beta and had 150,000 steam players in summer 2022. Then the gamer base dropped like a rock and the game got removed and functionality stopped in 2023.
Who knows what now. But their website says it's relaunching in 2024(?).
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Afaik the Arkham games sold well and were critically acclaimed, specially for a then unproved studio
False.
Change is difficult. You only change when you're forced to. The Batman liscense ate into their profits and each title was getting more expensive to make without an increase in sales ceiling.
Also, critical acclaim is basically meaningless. It doesn't pay the bills.
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ThisIsMyDog
Member
Rocksteady...
Majukun
Member
it's under WB, ultimately they'll decide if to keep the lights on if this fails badly
StereoVsn
Gold Member
We could have had couple more Batman or other DC SP games in the time and the budget. Between this and Arcane it’s just sad. Let’s not even bring up BioWare.
kiphalfton
Member
So what, did WB just not invite Jason and he's writing about how other people hate the game? Sounds about right.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
Don’t worry, next Hogwarts will be GaaS and I am aure it’s going to be great. /s.
SportsFan581
Member
It's so hard to keep this crowd engaged. When something clicks it blows up, but most of these just can't keep people interested.
I really enjoyed Knockout City, but same deal there I guess. It just dried up.
Astral Dog
Member
I honestly don't know what to say,they became very popular games with 5M+ sales on the first year of Arkham Knight and City other than SpiderMan not something a comic book game can do , the 'genre' was filled with low budget mediocre games
The license must have been very expensive then ,but i still think there are other factors here than raw sales
bender
What time is it?
Afaik the Arkham games sold well and were critically acclaimed, specially for a then unproved studio
They were big back then, Wikipedia says their preorders even surpassed CoD
There are probably a lot of variables that led to the decision:
-How do they continue to 1up the size and scope of the Arkham series
-Even if you can 1up predecessors in the series, the licensing and production costs might not make it viable (this is something we should all consider when we want bigger worlds, larger scopes, and cutting edge visuals as it feels like we are very close to a tipping point or maybe well beyond it if we consider what publishers expect a title to sell)
-Fatigue in the IP
-Grass is always Greener and the lure of bigger profits with GaaS
-How do they turn the Batman IP into a GaaS
-Hubris in thinking they can transition to GaaS
-Hubris in thinking they can make a Suicide Squad game commercially viable
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Didn't Spiderman 2 have to cross 7.2m in sales before Insomniac crossed into the black?
We've seen this track for years now...so has every game developer and publisher.
Games are getting more expensive to make.
Games are not increasing their sales ceiling.
The reason why Rocksteady stopped making SP Batman games is because of the above track. They wanted off before they crashed into the wall.
People talk about the GAAS bubble that doesn't exist meanwhile completely ignoring the AAA SP bubble that is right in front of their noses.
Fabieter
Member
WB dont pay licenses fees to WB because they own these properties and sony dont own the gaming lights to Spider-Man.
Pejo
Gold Member
I wonder if this is enough to kill Rocksteady outright or if they'll become a DLC mill for bigger games after this game fails.
I consider Warner Brothers to be one of the biggest trend-chasers out there, along with Square Enix. It always seems excessively risky to chase trends in games due to the long dev cycles. By the time a game actually releases, the trends have changed 2-3 times already.
I consider Warner Brothers to be one of the biggest trend-chasers out there, along with Square Enix. It always seems excessively risky to chase trends in games due to the long dev cycles. By the time a game actually releases, the trends have changed 2-3 times already.
bender
What time is it?
It's why Nintendo's strategy of staying a generation or two behind the power curve is so smart and why we should always expect them to be conservative with tech specs in their new hardware. They've also adopted an obvious strategy of keeping less successful IP alive but continuing to make these games either in-house or farmed out but with smaller budgets and sales expectations. It's why things like Retro Studios shitting the bed for a generation have hardly been felt.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Well then the other factors are more pronounced. 5 million in sales isn't the win gamers thought it was.
Codes 208
Member
Ikr? It had the potential to be a great smash clone, it was leagues better than the nickelodeon version. And then it just kinda died. They kept making odd dlc choices (people wanted characters like samurai jack, not a single person asked for fuckin’ lebron or black adam)
Fabieter
Member
Yea the thing is you need both type of games in your portfolio but the problem with gaas is that most people play 1 and 2 gaas games between their sp game's.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Yeah, but I wonder what prevented it from having a better longevity. Lack of character support? Because Smash for example is being played for years. Though of course MV removed the game itself but that's a separate matter.
qiqiqiiq
Member
They should have made a story driven game in which you play as The Justice League and make every character have unique abilities and feel different to play, and if they wanted to monetize it they could've done other stories and release them in a season pass, but instead we got a game in which a bunch of C-listers and Harley Quinn kill The Justice League, I'm glad the game is going to fail because I hope WB learns to stop disrespecting The Justice League.
Codes 208
Member
I think it was mainly because of the alpha gameplay. It was clearly a beta that got glorified with mtx’s and no one took their threat of “this is just a temporary release” seriously. Theres still a ton of potential with the full release, but i do believe they kinda burned some bridges with the people who spent real money in the beta (which frankly shouldnt have been an option)
Kurotri
Member
The Arkham trilogy is one of my absolute favourite games ever and I see it as one of the best game trilogies period. Spiderman from Insomniac is amazing but still doesn't come close to them imo. It's a fucking shame. I flip-flopped a lot over this game but the newest showings and leaks have brought me back to square one. The UI alone makes me want to never even attempt touching it. Some important people like Sefton Hill also left ages ago. I hate seeing this happen to studios I loved. RIP.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
False.
Epic Games and Blizzard aren't scrambling to create a SP game in their portfolio because it's not needed. That's not how any of this works.
Mister Wolf
Member
Someone has to fall on the sword for the decision to make this.
Salz01
Member
I mean I don’t feel sorry for them. They made Poison Ivy a dorky annoying looking kid……… like really? Especially when Fortnite another GAAS title does it so much better and charges 30 bucks just for the skin. I bet they made a shit ton on that bundle. Probably more than what WB is gonna get selling Suicide Squad
Saber
Member
I don't think it need an opinion for people to know that.
The first impression was cathastrophic, with generic garbage shooting gameplay. They just double down by simply keeping everything the way it was since it was revealed, while explaining why everyone is wrong and they are right. Imagine a chef making a terrible dish and explaining the customer why he is wrong and why the dish is the best thing ever made.
Black suits retards thinks is that simple to go to GaaS and forget it is a high risk project and that the few ones that were a sucess were thanks to it's appeal. LoU Online cuckholds learns that the hard way and I'm pretty sure Suicide Squad will learn as well.
It's just a pity, because Batman Arkhan games gameplay fits exactly those characters.
The first impression was cathastrophic, with generic garbage shooting gameplay. They just double down by simply keeping everything the way it was since it was revealed, while explaining why everyone is wrong and they are right. Imagine a chef making a terrible dish and explaining the customer why he is wrong and why the dish is the best thing ever made.
Black suits retards thinks is that simple to go to GaaS and forget it is a high risk project and that the few ones that were a sucess were thanks to it's appeal. LoU Online cuckholds learns that the hard way and I'm pretty sure Suicide Squad will learn as well.
It's just a pity, because Batman Arkhan games gameplay fits exactly those characters.
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Fabieter
Member
The market dont support endless gaas game's. Epic is a pretty bad example because they benefit from hundreds of unreal engine sp games throughout the years. Blizzard was on a downfall the last few year's tho.