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[PJV3]

With most of them it's purely ideological, apparently he's a real leftie and not a new labour tory though they never seem to have an answer when I ask them what the point is of having a real leftie if he tanks the party and ensures tory hegemony. Fricking ideological purity bollocks and most of these are roughly my age - mid 30s.

To be fair it's probably healthier to let the harder left have a chance and get a kicking in the election than just assuming they should support the labour party whatever, forever.

They have chosen the shittiest time in the last hundred years to try it though.

 

[RulkezX]

What else can JC do? The decision was made when the people voted out. Voting against article 50 would make no sense at all.

He should tell his MP's to vote as their constituents did.

The man is a buffoon and at this point is more dangerous to the future of the UK than Darth May is.

He's the walking embodiment of everything the electorate dislikes about the left, almost to the point of parody.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

What else can JC do? The decision was made when the people voted out. Voting against article 50 would make no sense at all.

The decision was made with a few percentage difference. If corbyn wanted to save the country and his party, he would be a legit opposition and do the right thing, and still potentially get support from those who voted to remain all over the country.

Instead his hatred for the European union shows.
I hope labour mps resist him.

 

[jelly]

What else can JC do? The decision was made when the people voted out. Voting against article 50 would make no sense at all.

Maybe they changed their minds as we reach the cliff edge and a Lib Dem coalition could snuff out the Tories. That wouldn't happen with him but it's the only wise alternative, this decision is for generations not their careers.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Fucking hell, this is the issue he finally draws the line on and tells his MPs to do what he says?

Fucks sake corbyn.

 

[Lagamorph]

and a Russia apologist

And friend of Hamas

 

[Uzzy]

He should tell his MP's to vote as their constituents did.

So overwhelming vote to leave then? Seven out of every ten Labour constituencies voted to leave.

 

[FunkyMonk]

Wow!
At least he believes in Democracy. Good on him.

Now watch his fellow MPs try to stab him in the back yet again.

I repeat - what about MPs that represent constituencies where the majority voted to remain? How would ignoring them represent believing in democracy?

 

[Maledict]

So overwhelming vote to leave then? Seven out of every ten Labour constituencies voted to leave.

That would make more sense. At least that way he can justify the stance. His current position is absolutely stupid, and guaranteed to cause labour further friction. He is hobbling his MPS in the next election - some labour MPs represent the most pro-Eu areas of the country and the lib dems are targeting them heavily.

When your party is heavily divided on an issue like this, I don't think you can just pick one side and assume it settled. Given the disparity across the Labour Party, he needs to let his own MPs pick how they vote and be responsible for their own reelection.

 

[RulkezX]

So overwhelming vote to leave then? Seven out of every ten Labour constituencies voted to leave.

What's your point caller ?

 

[FunkyMonk]

To be fair it's probably healthier to let the harder left have a chance and get a kicking in the election than just assuming they should support the labour party whatever, forever.

They have chosen the shittiest time in the last hundred years to try it though.

I see your point but all this will do us entrench the tories and Labour isn't going to be able to out-UKIP UKIP.

 

[Uzzy]

What's your point caller ?

That calling for Labour MP's to vote as their constituents did would lead to the overwhelming majority of Labour MP's voting to trigger article 50. Seems obvious to me.

That would make more sense. At least that way he can justify the stance. His current position is absolutely stupid, and guaranteed to cause labour further friction. He is hobbling his MPS in the next election - some labour MPs represent the most pro-Eu areas of the country and the lib dems are targeting them heavily.

When your party is heavily divided on an issue like this, I don't think you can just pick one side and assume it settled. Given the disparity across the Labour Party, he needs to let his own MPs pick how they vote and be responsible for their own reelection.

At which point Corbyn would be attacked for not even attempting to show leadership on the most important issue facing British politics at the moment. There's no easy answer to this for Corbyn or the Labour party, to be honest.

 

[Xe4]

Sorry ya'll have such a shit opposition leader UK. Dude has absolutely zero spine, and it's literally impossible for him to think long term.

 

[RulkezX]

That calling for Labour MP's to vote as their constituents did would lead to the overwhelming majority of Labour MP's voting to trigger article 50. Seems obvious to me.

So.....?

At least then labour constituents have an MP who is following through with their wishes rather than following comrade Corbyn's orders.

Article 50 is getting triggered, there's no question of that. But he certainly shouldn't force MP'S in remain areas to go against their electorate.

 

[Wuiji]

I don't see UKIP getting very far, May is stealing all their thunder.

And that there is the issue. The Tories are pulling all this shit with Labour in opposition, can you imagine the type of shit they'll get away with when they know UKIP are 'the opposition'?

 

[Real Hero]

I hope this guy serves as a warning to Democrats who support Sanders but who am I kidding.

They really aren't that comparable. Labour would kill for a sanders right now

 

[PJV3]

I see your point but all this will do us entrench the tories and Labour isn't going to be able to out-UKIP UKIP.

Well after the coming disaster hopefully the party will be ready to compromise and try to win.

I just think this was going to happen anyway after years of being told to keep quiet or being used as a punchbag for nice headlines in the press.

 

[RulkezX]

And that there is the issue. The Tories are pulling all this shit with Labour in opposition, can you imagine the type of shit they'll get away with when they know UKIP are 'the opposition'?

Ate we going to do the UKIP dance again ? The electorate has shown time and time again they won't vote for them. Farage couldn't even win his seat ffs.

They won't be the official opposition.

 

[RetroDLC]

And now he's lost me as a supporter. Article 50 should only be invoked if negotiation stances are strong enough to make the risk of leaving the EU worthwhile, and so far, they're not.

 

[PJV3]

Ate we going to do the UKIP dance again ? The electorate has shown time and time again they won't vote for them. Farage couldn't even win his seat ffs.

They won't be the official opposition.

The next election is after we leave and May is giving them everything they want, I don't see the point of them now let alone in 2020.

 

[Blackthorn]

Wonderful to see a man who defines himself on his principles demand that his party sacrifice theirs.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Hmmm...mixed on this. I voted remain, but there isn't a chance that we are going to stay in now, at least in the short-term. As a Scot, I hope all this results in the end of the current union. There is at least opportunity in Scotland to forge something of a more progressive path. The English political climate at the moment is pathetic and sad.

The Man Who Killed The Labour Party.

Fuck Corbyn. Fuck the egomaniacal lazy cunt.

Do you need medical help?

 

[SKINNER!]

All the more reason to separate Scotland. Leave the rest of the UK to wallow in their right-wing class politics.

 

[OverBlood 3]

He has said since day dot he'll respect the referendum result, he'd be mental to try and stop us leaving the EU he'd be even more unpopular than he is now. Seeing as Labour voters wanted out.

Also if people want to waste a vote on the Lib dems then so be it just remember the fucking lies they told previous to the coalition government oh and the fact they went into power with the fucking Tories, real progressive party there. Bedroom tax for all. Farron is a useless cunt.

Same goes for UKIP, they're a shite fringe party with ONE (ex-Tory) MP you'd be forgiven in thinking they're more relevant than they are seeing the media obsession with them.

 

[RulkezX]

The next election is after we leave and May is giving them everything they want, I don't see the point of them now let alone in 2020.

They've faded into irrelevance. It's Farage sections of the media love, he's still getting talking head spots everywhere while UKIP get a footnote on the late night bulletin to laugh at their leadership woes.

UKIP will fade into BNP style obscurity now the entire point of their existence had come to pass and their base is trickling back to the Tories.

All the more reason to separate Scotland. Leave the rest of the UK to wallow in their right-wing class politics.

While I think Sturgeon had more of a mandate to ask for a referendum now the first one, I think we'd arguably be in a worse place because of this than we'd have been if Yes had won.

Trying to sort the breakup of the UK at the same time as Brexit ? It'd be anarchy. I'm not convinced the result would be different anyway.

 

[hodgy100]

Does this guy understand he is the opposition and needs to push forward the will of his voters, and not that of the other parties?

The will of his voters are like 50/50 split on leave / remain what is he to do?

he tells them to vote for they alienate their left leaning base.
he tells them to vote against they alienate their middle england base.
its a no win situation.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Ate we going to do the UKIP dance again ? The electorate has shown time and time again they won't vote for them. Farage couldn't even win his seat ffs.

They won't be the official opposition.

People did vote for them though. In the 2015 general election they got 12.7% of the popular vote. It's only through the vagaries of our electoral system than 12.7% of the vote only translates to 0.2% of the seats in the Commons.

Okay, with Brexit and without Farage, they're highly unlikely to see that same success ever again, but it wouldn't have taken too much more of a swing to see them picking up seats all over the place.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

UKIP has achieved total victory even though they have never formed a government and never will, admit it. They've managed to shift the political centre towards their ideology. England and Wales are very, very right wing places now. UKIP won. I actually give up on even trying to work towards a change in this country. I'm in it only for myself now.

 

[Maledict]

He has said since day dot he'll respect the referendum result, he'd be mental to try and stop us leaving the EU he'd be even more unpopular than he is now. Seeing as Labour voters wanted out.

Also if people want to waste a vote on the Lib dems then so be it just remember the fucking lies they told previous to the coalition government oh and the fact they went into power with the fucking Tories, real progressive party there. Bedroom tax for all. Farron is a useless cunt.

Same goes for UKIP, they're a shite fringe party with ONE (ex-Tory) MP you'd be forgiven in thinking they're more relevant than they are seeing the media obsession with them.

Two thirds of labour voters voted to remain.

Problem is, the third that voted to leave are all in the north marginals, and so could cause a massive collapse of the party in the north at the next election. It's probably more likely they can keep their city seats who want to remain than the northern seats that want to leave.

(Hard calculation though, and really does depend on how hard the lib dems go in on this versus ukips strength in the north).

 

[PJV3]

UKIP has achieved total victory even though they have never formed a government and never will, admit it. They've managed to shift the political centre towards their ideology. England and Wales are very, very right wing places now. UKIP won. I actually give up on even trying to work towards a change in this country. I'm in it only for myself now.

Not if leaving the EU becomes a disaster and the country ends up regretting it. It would be like qualifying for the world cup and the team plane crashing on the way to the tournament.

 

[StayDead]

Labour, if you do this you know for sure you're fucking the country. Even the Labour Mayor of London agrees that Brexit is moronic.

 

[Jackpot]

The will of his voters are like 50/50 split on leave / remain what is he to do?

Not make this the issue to instill a 3-line whip on. Or not issue the announcement before we know what leaving the EU will mean. Or before we even know if a vote is needed on it.

What is Labour's EU policy? Does anyone know?

 

[FunkyMonk]

It would still lead to a triggering of article 50.

I'm fully aware of that. What you were doing was invoking democracy in support of a party leader who has told a sizeable amount of his MPs to ignore their constituents which is pretty damn undemocratic.

Well after the coming disaster hopefully the party will be ready to compromise and try to win.

I just think this was going to happen anyway after years of being told to keep quiet or being used as a punchbag for nice headlines in the press.

Aye, just the thought of another 8 years of the tories because Corbyns supporters want ideological purity irritates me.

 

[StayDead]

I'm fully aware of that. What you were doing was invoking democracy in support of a party leader who has told a sizeable amount of his MPs to ignore their constituents which is pretty damn undemocratic

No, no it's not. Their place is to protect people like you from shooting themselves in the head.

 

[Empty]

god starting to have some sympathy for the useless idiot over this. the man has no reason to block article 50, we lost the referendum, it just makes us look like we have contempt for the electorate. the lib dems can be opportunistic as they are coming from a position of extreme weakness and don't need to represent a broad coalition of voters, just build on their niche of remain voters in the south.

 

[Dobsie]

He kind of has to push for this though otherwise he'll lose even more votes in traditional labour strongholds up north to ukip.

 

[TimmmV]

People should not be suprised at this. He would actively be putting his MP's in danger if he even hinted he might try to stop brexit

The problem is that by doing so the 48% of people who voted to remain get next to no representation in parliament on the matter

It's just another example of what a joke FPTP is, winner takes all and everyone else gets shafted

Edit: and for party politics. We wouldn't have the referendum in the first place if it wasn't for Tory party politics, and we wouldn't be having no Labour opposition whatsoever if it wasn't for party politics either. Everyone is way too concerned with their own party then they are about doing the right thing, and it's fucking disgusting

 

[FunkyMonk]

No, no it's not. Their place is to protect people like you from shooting themselves in the head.

Care to explain how I'm shooting myself in the head by wanting MPs to represent their constituents?

 

[JimiNutz]

Labour politicians should vote for/against based on the referendum results in their constituency. That is the how you do your job properly and accurately represent the people that voted you into your seat...

 

[Skii]

Wow, you're supposed to oppose the Conservatives, not fucking join them. What a pathetic man.

 

[Rodelero]

I repeat - what about MPs that represent constituencies whee the majority voted to remain? How would ignoring them represent believing in democracy?

The thing you need to understand, is that a lot of very vocal Leave voters believe that democracy is defined as "A system where the majority gets what they want". There is no nuance beyond that. They don't recognise that, in this case, the vast majority of Labour voters voted to Remain. They don't recognise that the government's policy is not just to entirely ignore the 48% of the country that voted to Remain, but, in the face of an almost 50-50 vote, to take the most extreme path advocated by some of the 52%.

A complete lack of education, or a sinister attempt to wind up the uneducated, is behind every call to "respect democracy" that I've heard in the last six months. It is a comment that can only be justified by a childlike understanding of what democracy is, and it is a dangerous thought process that leads to a tyranny of the majority and unbridled populism.

 

[kirblar]

Gee, I wonder why a bunch of Dems are hard line against economic Populists?

 

[Halph n Halph]

Most Labour voters are pro EU. Thanks to our broken as fuck voting system that majority can be totally ignored. He wants to save his seats in the North at any cost.

The north IS labour (mostly). If he advises a vote against the northern towns who voted to leave then he gets crucified. The north won't vote conservative so any votes he loses will probably go to UKIP . Is that what you want ?
His core supporters in the south won't vote UKIP or conservative so he can afford to defy those who voted to remain in those areas.

 

[twobear]

Does anyone here honestly think that blocking Article 50 and trying to seek Britain's staying in the EU through parliamentary veto is a workable plan? Labour need to leave the 'we really can stop all this and have another referendum and win!' fantasies to the Lib Dems and apply pressure to the government to err on the side of Soft Brexit, that's the only halfway plausible plan of action I see for them.

[edit] Which is not to say it's a good plan, just that it's the best plan out of their very poor list of options.

 

[Purkake4]

Bizarrely Labour claimed May's recent speech about leaving the single market entirely proved that they'd forced the government into a soft Brexit.

Also polls show a slump in support for them for like the 4th month in a row

This goes well with this poll.

 

[FunkyMonk]

Does anyone here honestly think that blocking Article 50 and trying to seek Britain's staying in the EU through parliamentary veto is a workable plan? Labour need to leave the 'we really can stop all this and have another referendum and win!' fantasies to the Lib Dems and apply pressure to the government to err on the side of Soft Brexit, that's the only halfway plausible plan of action I see for them.

[edit] Which is not to say it's a good plan, just that it's the best plan out of their very poor list of options.

We're leaving, there's been too much said over the past 6 months, too much bad blood but Corbyn's not asking his MPs to pressure the government, he's ordering them to vote in line with a government that seems hell bent on pursuing a hard Brexit.

I'm resigned to leaving now, you could say I've reached the acceptance stage, but ordering a sizeable minority if his MPs to ignore their constituents is sickening to me. Why not let MPs vote as their constituents want them too?

That's ignoring the fact that Corbyn himself often voted against the wishes of his party, if it wasn't so serious I'd be laughing my cock off at the hypocrisy of the man.

 

[gutter_trash]

Stayers should all dump Labour and vote Lib-Dem

Remain Labour MPs should just cross the floor and become Lib-Dems

 

[IdreamofHIME]

The three big parties are going to be: Tories, UKIP & Lib Dems at the next GE isn't it?

No. SNP will get more seats than Lib Dems and UKIP.

 

[twobear]

We're leaving, there's been too much said over the past 6 months, too much bad blood but Corbyn's not asking his MPs to pressure the government, he's ordering them to vote in line with a government that seems he'll bent on pursuing a hard Brexit.

I'm resigned to leaving now, you could say I've reached the acceptance stage, but ordering a sizeable minority if his MPs to ignore their constituents is sickening to me. Why not let MPs vote as their constituents want them too?

That's ignoring the fact that Corbyn himself often voted against the wishes of his party, if it wasn't so serious I'd be laughing my cock off at the hypocrisy of the man.

As I said, I think the choices are awful, but he'd be dragged for absolute filth if he gave them a free vote, on everything from 'defying the people' by the right wing press to 'lack of strong leadership' by the left.

The most important thing for Labour to do, as I said the other day, is have some semblance of a plan. They have nothing right now. Absolutely nothing.

 

[Beefy]

When is Labour going to split?