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Jihadi gunmen kill 28 passengers on Kenyan bus for not being Muslim

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S

Soriku

Junior Member
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2014/11/killed-kenya-bus-attack-201411226446296802.html

Al-Shabab fighters from Somalia hijacked a bus in Kenya's north and killed 28 non-Muslims on board after they had been singled out from the rest of the passengers, police officials said.

Two police officers said that the bus travelling to the capital Nairobi with 60 passengers was hijacked 50km from the town of Mandera near Kenya's border with Somalia.

The officers insisted on anonymity out of fear of reprisals because of an order from Kenya's police chief that officers should not speak to the media.

Al-Shabab claimed responsibility for the dawn bus attack in a statement on Saturday, saying the attack was revenge for raids carried out by Kenyan security forces on mosques in the coastal city of Mombasa. Kenyan police said they found explosives and arrested more than 150 people in the mosque raids.

"The Mujahideen successfully carried out an operation near Mandera early this morning, which resulted in the perishing of 28 crusaders, as a revenge for the crimes committed by the Kenyan crusaders against our Muslim brethren in Mombasa," Sheikh Ali Mohamud Rage, a spokesman for the group, said in the statement.

The interior ministry confirmed Saturday's attack, saying via its official Twitter handle: "Security agencies are in pursuit of the criminal gang. We'll give a comprehensive update once preliminary reports are out."
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More at the link.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
I heard about this on the BBC today. Horrifying.

They asked people to recite suras from the Quran and if the people failed, they killed them. I guess that is the Islamist version of a game show. :-/

Gunmen separated out non-Muslims by asking passengers to read from the Koran, officials and witnesses said. Those who failed were then shot in the head.

Kenya's Red Cross confirmed that 28 of the 60 passengers on the bus were killed, 19 men and nine women.
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-30160199


Pathos said:
man why does religion have to be so important to these fuckheads
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Seriously. People need to chill the fuck out on their religion. Everyone needs ask themselves "What if I am wrong?"
Be a good person and perhaps the creator (if one exists) will pardon you no matter what religion.
 
I

ICKE

Banned
This is horrible, reminds me of the mall shooting when they lined up men, women and children and kept asking questions from them as in "name me who was this and this person to Muhammed". They used it as a tactic to find out if people were really Muslims and then killed them. . :-/
 
S

SniperHunter

Banned
ICKE said:
This is horrible, reminds me of the mall shooting when they kept asking questions from the people as in who were some of prophets family members. They used it as a tactic to find out if people were really Muslims and then killed them. :-/
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the Pakistani terrorists who attacked Mumbai in 2011 also did the same thing. They let the Muslims go and shot everyone else.

fucked up people
 
Monocle

Monocle

Member
Booshka said:
Idiots interpret religion so they can be as extreme and brutal as possible.

RIP
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Weird how it's so uncommon for violent crazies to latch onto atheism or secular philosophies. Where are all the stories about people being executed by godless bigots?
 
I

ICKE

Banned
SniperHunter said:
the Pakistani terrorists who attacked Mumbai in 2011 also did the same thing. They let the Muslims go and shot everyone else.

fucked up people
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Yeah, it is just too brutal. I will always remember reading these quotes from the Telegraph.

“I hid under a car with my daughters, and I saw the men line up maybe 40 people and ask them who was Muslim, and if they were, to prove it by saying the name of the Prophet’s mother. Those who got it wrong were shot,” said Charles Karani, 41, an IT engineer.

“A grenade was thrown and it rolled near us, my daughter said: 'Papa, there’s a grenade’ - but thanks God it didn’t go off and I kicked it away.”
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Scum of the earth.
 
B

Booshka

Member
-COOLIO- said:
personally, i don't buy religion being just an excuse.

i think all 28 of these victims would still be a live if it weren't for religion.
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Religion is never an excuse, it's insane zealots using popular and accepted stories as a reasoning for their extremism and violence. Those same idiots could latch onto any idea and use it to cause harm to others, Religion is just the institutionalized, mass accepted venue for their extremism.

In that sense, it does need to be knocked down a peg, because it has a tendency for cultist, extremist attitudes. They're just a bunch of stories that enough people bought into, then told to their children over generations. That's all it is.
 
M

Massive Duck. C.M.

Banned
Booshka said:
Religion is never an excuse, it's insane zealots using popular and accepted stories as a reasoning for their extremism and violence. Those same idiots could latch onto any idea and use it to cause harm to others, Religion is just the institutionalized, mass accepted venue for their extremism.

In that sense, it does need to be knocked down a peg, because it has a tendency for cultist, extremist attitudes. They're just a bunch of stories that enough people bought into, then told to their children over generations. That's all it is.
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How do you propose it be knocked down a peg?
 
M

Mesousa

Banned
Funny enough Ethiopia does not seem to be having this problem...maybe because they actually cut shit out before it gets out of hand?

If Kenya started actually kicking people out these things would be solved.
 
-COOLIO-

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Booshka said:
Religion is never an excuse, it's insane zealots using popular and accepted stories as a reasoning for their extremism and violence. Those same idiots could latch onto any idea and use it to cause harm to others, Religion is just the institutionalized, mass accepted venue for their extremism.

In that sense, it does need to be knocked down a peg, because it has a tendency for cultist, extremist attitudes. They're just a bunch of stories that enough people bought into, then told to their children over generations. That's all it is.
Click to expand...

sure they could latch onto any idea, but i don't have a hard time believing this was a 100% motivated by religious belief alone, rather than purely instinctual lust for violence.

i can believe that if all the parties involved in murdering these 28 people grew up without religion, that they never would have become these monsters.
 
B

Booshka

Member
-COOLIO- said:
sure they could latch onto any idea, but i don't have a hard time believing this was a 100% motivated by religious belief alone, rather than the some ulterior motive of a higher-up shadow figure using religion to manipulate the masses to do their bidding.

i can believe that if all the parties involved in murdering these 28 people grew up without religion, that they never would have become these monsters.
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To be honest man, I'm not totally understanding what you are trying to say. I feel like we are probably in agreeance, but just mixing the details of our conversation. Or I'm too buzzed to read you properly.

EDIT: to your edit, for this specific instance, sure, religion was the primary motivating factor for this individuals insane and heinous act. But, individuals can be completely insane and do this kind of crazy shit without the aid of institutionalized intolerance (religion).
 
Monocle

Monocle

Member
Valhelm said:
Are you shitting me?
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The religious essence of so-called secular dictatorships is extremely well documented. Don't insult me by suggesting cults of personality that co-opt all the trappings of religion have nothing to do with religion. And I obviously wasn't referring to dictators or bullied virgins, I was talking about regular run-of-the-mill crazies who engage in ideologically motivated killing.

So... where are they? The atheist murderers who rove around in packs and persecute religious people?
 
-COOLIO-

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Booshka said:
To be honest man, I'm not totally understanding what you are trying to say. I feel like we are probably in agreeance, but just mixing the details of our conversation. Or I'm too buzzed to read you properly.
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we both agree that religion can be problematic in fuelling violence, but i would go a little further and argue that it can be the root cause of violence in and of itself.

i totally agree that parents should reconsider indoctrinating their kids at a young age and let them find religion themselves. religion should be a spiritual and personal thing rather than hard-wired collection of rules anyhow.

edit: just read your edit, i guess we do agree. you're saying you don't need to be religious to be crazy, and im saying that religion can make you crazy. we're both basically saying the same thing.
 
Hoya Destroyer

Hoya Destroyer

Member
I suspect this is as much (or more) about tribalism as it is about religion.
People with nothing in their lives strike out against others, because they want to feel superior to them. Obviously they are scum.

Edit: I deeply regret looking at that NSFW/L picture.
 
-COOLIO-

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Hoya Destroyer said:
I suspect this is as much (or more) about tribalism as it is about religion.
People with nothing in their lives strike out against others, because they want to feel superior to them. Obviously they are scum.

Edit: I deeply regret looking at that NSFW/L picture.
Click to expand...

i dont know much about kenya. what differentiates the tribes in question beyond religion? race?
 
Monocle

Monocle

Member
Hoya Destroyer said:
I suspect this is as much (or more) about tribalism as it is about religion.
People with nothing in their lives strike out against others, because they want to feel superior to them. Obviously they are scum.

Edit: I deeply regret looking at that NSFW/L picture.
Click to expand...
Well, religion is a form of tribalism, and an especially dangerous one (potentially) because it actively discourages critical thought. Most other kinds of tribalism don't have that feature. I mean, as worked up as people get about team sports or politics, as overbearing as the groupthink can be, faith isn't sold as some hugely important virtue unless your party happens to be religiously aligned.
 
M

Mecha

Member
Monocle said:
Weird how it's so uncommon for violent crazies to latch onto atheism or secular philosophies. Where are all the stories about people being executed by godless bigots?
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It's easier to kill in the name of religion due to interpretations and the multiple organizations that exist to terrorize people. I would imagine that if everyone was an atheist we would still see violence related to what philosophies people held. Insane people would still exist, and terrorists would not go away, they would just latch on to something else.
 
S

Stereogatari

Banned
Mesousa said:
Its ethnicity too. Somalis in Kenya look down on the same "Bantus" who have taken them in when their own country has been an absolute failure.
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I thought so.

Looking at the quiz they asked to determine Muslimness, there are many Muslims who wpuld get that wrong. Prophet Mo's wife, wtf? I'm Atheist from a Turkish background. Average Turk doesn't know much detail of Mohamad let alone his relatives.

Monocle said:
Weird how it's so uncommon for violent crazies to latch onto atheism or secular philosophies. Where are all the stories about people being executed by godless bigots?
Click to expand...
Most modern conflicts are due to Nationalism, a Secular idealogy.

NEO0MJ said:
Ancestry, which part of the country they're from.
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And in that part of the world that means race. The idea of broad racial categories is non-existent in most of the world. Race usually equals ethnicity.
 
Monocle

Monocle

Member
Mecha said:
It's easier to kill in the name of religion due to interpretations and the multiple organizations that exist to terrorize people. I would imagine that if everyone was an atheist we would still see violence related to what philosophies people held. Insane people would still exist, and terrorists would not go away, they would just latch on to something else.
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We'd definitely still see violence if nobody were religious, but possibly less of it, and probably not nearly as much from misguided people who do awful things in this world because they think the next one definitely exists and is much more important.

Stereogatari said:
Most conflicts are due to Nationalism, a Secular idealogy.
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When politics and nationalism are all bound up with religious tensions, it doesn't really make sense to isolate one and say "You see? The problem is secular!"
 
S

Stereogatari

Banned
Monocle said:
When politics and nationalism are all bound up with religious tensions, it doesn't really make sense to isolate one and say "You see? The problem is secular!"
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You are kind of right. But let's take the Armenian-Azerbaijan conflict as an example. Both countries are barely religious but one is Muslim background, other is Christian. Do we blame religion or not? Same with Balkans and Britain-IRA a few decades ago.

Obviously Pakistan-India is one you can definitively blame on religion. But what about China-Tibet and China-Uyghurs.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Monocle said:
Weird how it's so uncommon for violent crazies to latch onto atheism or secular philosophies. Where are all the stories about people being executed by godless bigots?
Click to expand...

The soviet union?


Most state-based conflicts are secular in nature, though may have religious undertones.

It all comes back to the tribal nature of humanity on a biological level
 
P

-PXG-

Member
So many lives lost...

For what?

Mindless tribal superiority and some nonsense in a stupid ass book. Damn shame. That pic is gruesome too. It's amazingly horrifying what people can do to others.

And yes, put me in the "fuck religion" camp too.
 
O

orochi91

Member
I can't help but feel they would have killed me as well despite being a Muslim.

I've had a run in with a fundamentalist sometime ago who said I wasn't a good one :/

Monocle said:
Weird how it's so uncommon for violent crazies to latch onto atheism or secular philosophies. Where are all the stories about people being executed by godless bigots?
Click to expand...

Some of the worst massacres were carried out by militant atheists.

Put down the monocle.
 
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