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[StreetsofBeige]

Most of the TV trailers didn’t play a single bar of music. I imagine a lot of people only knew of the movie from those TV spots and, if they didn’t dig deeper, wouldn’t know it was a “dark musical”.

I wonder how many people got roped into seeing it based on the teasers which made it look similar in design to the first movie only to get about 15 minutes in and end up like this:

I'm not going to watch the movie, but I didnt know it was part musical either till recent reviews.

It's like SW movies. Most of the trailers are pretty serious like it's a gritty sci-fi flick. Then you watch the movies and there's way more comedy bits than the ads.

I find it odd that marketing ads and actual content differ in media. It's like marketing thinks the product is better shown like this. But the actual writers/directors made a different kind of movie thinking it's better their way. So there is an internal disconnect on what sells. But some genres seem true. A horror movie is marketed creepy, and a comedy movie is marketed with jokes. But then some movies are totally different.

The only answer I can give is that marketing took a look at the final product, thinks it's shit and they did their own thing. And the writers/producers cant do anything about it as the marketing department controls their way.

 

[FunkMiller]

This has exactly the same energy as this:

“Everyone says that about [Christopher Nolan’s] Batman Begins. “Batman’s dark.” I’m like, okay, “No, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go.” - Zack Snyder.

Some people really should be kept far away from comic book characters.

 

[Hookshot]

I switched over from the first one when he stalked his neighbor to the bank, so not that far in. Glad I didn't get invested in it.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I don't know the background on Joker or Quinn all too much , I mean I know who he they are but Harley Quinn is nothing but toxic for Joker, that's what I learned watching this.

That's the opposite of the usual Harley/Joker dynamic, he is supposed to be toxic to her.

 

[SJRB]

This movie is causing a huge rift in my friends group between people who don't want to watch this under any circumstance and people who want to get drunk and see it out of morbid curiosity.

I'm in the latter camp.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

This movie is causing a huge rift in my friends group between people who don't want to watch this under any circumstance and people who want to get drunk and see it out of morbid curiosity.

I'm in the latter camp.

If I could see Mobile Suit Gundam seed Fredoom and survived... I can handle that Joker one.

By the way, had I already said that Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Freedom is for me the worst animated film of the year?

 

[IDKFA]

Watched it with brother in law, I swear I thought I was going to go in disliking the movie but I somewhat enjoyed it. I think he makes an passable version of Joker and Lady Gaga aint too bad of a Harley quinn herself. I don't know the background on Joker or Quinn all too much , I mean I know who he they are but Harley Quinn is nothing but toxic for Joker, that's what I learned watching this. Personally I don't know what happened in the end,

Spoiler

is he dead or what?

Spoiler

He gets shanked by the real Joker. Arthur is dead and according to this film, he just inspired the real Joker

 

[Ribi]

I ain't watching no fucking musical

 

[YCoCg]

That's the opposite of the usual Harley/Joker dynamic, he is supposed to be toxic to her.

SPOILER

That's the point, he ISN'T the real Joker, once she finds out she leaves him. Arthur has been reduced to just being a simp who lied to get attention.

 

[FunkMiller]

This is now shaping up to be the single biggest box office bomb of 2024.

Not going over 37 million opening weekend, and likely to not cross 70 million total domestic. On a 200 million dollar budget, plus marketing of easily 100 million. It's not going to break 200 million worldwide, meaning it'll earn over 800 million less than the first movie.

Really hoping this contributes to the much needed downfall of Warner Bros. The terrible way they've handled the DC IP for over a decade now deserves a healthy dose of bankruptcy.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Tank the reception and box office to own the chuds

Warner Bros trying to speedrun bankruptcy I guess, this movie supposedly cost $200 million to make

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Warner Bros trying to speedrun bankruptcy I guess, this movie supposedly cost $200 million to make

And that's the production costs. https://deadline.com/2024/10/joker-folie-a-deux-box-office-weekend-projection-1236104610/

Add in marketing and it's probably at $300M+. Since theatres take 50% (or more for overseas theatres), youre looking at maybe $650M to break even. Good luck with that.

It's always amazing when media companies change a good formula. Why anyone would want to change a movie like Joker into a half musical is absurd. Guy must had been coked up coming up with that idea.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Is it true that he actually gets raped? That’s what I keep seeing on X but I’m not sure if this is a meme to trick people like Morbin time.

I don't think this actually happens, there's not even a small vague indicator like one of guards unbuckling or something, they just throw him on the ground and then in the next scene his legs are full of bruises; seems to me they just beat the shit out of him.

he also doesn't stop being joker after this, that doesn't happen until another inmate gets murdered by the guards afterwards

That's the point, he ISN'T the real Joker, once she finds out she leaves him.

That's not true, the dynamic is switched from the very start, she's the one that's the selfish bad influence that lies about herself, and she's all aboard until the very end; she isn't aware of any "real" joker, she leaves because he says there is no joker and then isn't seen for the rest of the movie

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I don't think this actually happens, there's not even a small vague indicator like one of guards unbuckling or something, they just throw him on the ground and then in the next scene his legs are full of bruises; seems to me they just beat the shit out of him.

Bro he gets beat on so much and comes back from it before, they’re in a bathroom ripping his clothes off, and they drag him to his cell and there’s a very clear shot of his tighty whities from behind, and he doesn’t bounce back at all the way he has from being beat on from before, he looks like he’s completely done and disassociated…

Whether they did it themselves or used batons, the implication is clear.

 

[Halo is Back]

This is now shaping up to be the single biggest box office bomb of 2024.

Not going over 37 million opening weekend, and likely to not cross 70 million total domestic. On a 200 million dollar budget, plus marketing of easily 100 million. It's not going to break 200 million worldwide, meaning it'll earn over 800 million less than the first movie.

Really hoping this contributes to the much needed downfall of Warner Bros. The terrible way they've handled the DC IP for over a decade now deserves a healthy dose of bankruptcy.

I didn't think it would bomb this hard lol. It's almost like making an unnecessary sequel and truing it into a musical was a bad idea.

 

[FunkMiller]

Not for nothing, but James Gunn desperately trying to lay some sort of ownership on The Penguin, while equally desperately trying to distance himself from Joker 2 will never not be funny.

Get back to your fucking redundant 'new' cinematic universe, Jimbo

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Bro he gets beat on so much and comes back from it before, they’re in a bathroom ripping his clothes off, and they drag him to his cell and there’s a very clear shot of his tighty whities from behind

I know what happens "bro" I've seen the movie in imax, not some cam clips.
That shot you mentioned showed the bruises on his legs.

And he does "come back" from it right after in his jail cell, it's not until what happens directly after this that the expression on his face changes.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I know what happens "bro" I've seen the movie in imax, not some cam clips.
That shot you mentioned showed the bruises on his legs.

And he does "come back" from it right after in his jail cell, it's not until what happens directly after this that the expression on his face changes.

K, I’m sure all the other indications and everyone else interpreting it that way could be wrong…

 

[Nickolaidas]

Some people really should be kept far away from comic book characters.

Zack's a fucking asshole and is more interested in triggering his audience than entertaining them and giving them what they want.

 

[Doom85]

Not for nothing, but James Gunn desperately trying to lay some sort of ownership on The Penguin, while equally desperately trying to distance himself from Joker 2 will never not be funny.

Get back to your fucking redundant 'new' cinematic universe, Jimbo

You mean the tweet where Gunn said he had a few suggestions but that his biggest involvement with Penguin was getting out of the way and letting Reeves and company do their own thing?




Ah yes, that’s truly Gunn “laying ownership” of it. Come on. And Joker 2 began development in June 2022, whereas Gunn didn’t become co-CEO of DC Studios until October of that year. So making Joker 2 wasn’t his idea in the slightest. This is like going, “man, Aquaman 2 was forgettable! Thanks, James Gunn!”

 

[FunkMiller]

You mean the tweet where Gunn said he had a few suggestions but that his biggest involvement with Penguin was getting out of the way and letting Reeves and company do their own thing?




Ah yes, that’s truly Gunn “laying ownership” of it. Come on. And Joker 2 began development in June 2022, whereas Gunn didn’t become co-CEO of DC Studios until October of that year. So making Joker 2 wasn’t his idea in the slightest. This is like going, “man, Aquaman 2 was forgettable! Thanks, James Gunn!”

Yep. That was certainly a tweet he put out.

So was this:



Funnily enough, he's happy for The Penguin to be part of his DC Studios... but not so much Todd's piece of shit

 

[Doom85]

Yep. That was certainly a tweet he put out.

So was this:



Funnily enough, he's happy for The Penguin to be part of DC Studios... but not so much Todd's piece of shit

Caped Crusader wasn’t a DC Studios production either. This is a nothingburger.

 

[FunkMiller]

Caped Crusader wasn’t a DC Studios production either. This is a nothingburger.

Oh, it's entirely unimportant. I just find it funny how he's happy to attach himself to Matt Reeves's project when it's proving to be successful... all this despite his idiotic desire to have yet another fucking Batman that could undermine what Reeves is making.

 

[Doom85]

all this despite his idiotic desire to have yet another fucking Batman that could undermine what Reeves is making.

Reeves’ Batman was not designed to be part of the DC verse as a whole. Also, heaven forbid some of us read the comics and want films with a proper Batfamily and Batman being in more than one Justice League film. This is like saying the Spider-verse films shouldn’t have had Peter B. Parker just because Peter Parker was in the MCU by then, or vice versa (heck, I guess Miles’ uncle shouldn’t have been used either in Spider-verse since he appeared in Homecoming the year before!). There’s room for more than one version. Like, we just had this year a 1.3 billion dollar grossing movie focused heavily on the concept of variants, I don’t think the audience is as likely to be confused about the idea of two separate universe Batmans as you think they will be.

 

[FunkMiller]

Reeves’ Batman was not designed to be part of the DC verse as a whole. Also, heaven forbid some of us read the comics and want films with a proper Batfamily and Batman being in more than one Justice League film. This is like saying the Spider-verse films shouldn’t have had Peter B. Parker just because Peter Parker was in the MCU by then, or vice versa (heck, I guess Miles’ uncle shouldn’t have been used either in Spider-verse since he appeared in Homecoming the year before!). There’s room for more than one version. Like, we just had this year a 1.3 billion dollar grossing movie focused heavily on the concept of variants, I don’t think the audience is as likely to be confused about the idea of two separate universe Batmans as you think they will be.

You're skewing my point, which is not that there should not be a Batman with all the comic trimmings, but they should not be pushing it while there is an already successful, popular version of the character.

You don't individually get the version of Batman you want, but sorry, that sucks for you... but doesn't for the franchise in general.

Gunn will damage both Reeves's vision and his own if he insists on pushing yet another fucking iteration of the character on an audience already shit dog tired of endless superhero reboots, rehashes and sequels.

The last time we had multiple Batmans in a movie, it died on its fucking arse. One Batman is enough. DC can't afford another round of failure. The endless pursuit of the shared cinematic universe dollar will lead exactly to the same stupid result.

 

[Doom85]

You're skewing my point, which is not that there should not be a Batman with all the comic trimmings, but they should not be pushing it while there is an already successful, popular version of the character.

You don't individually get the version of Batman you want, but sorry, that sucks for you... but doesn't for the franchise in general.

Gunn will damage both Reeves's vision and his own if he insists on pushing yet another fucking iteration of the character on an audience already shit dog tired of endless superhero reboots, rehashes and sequels.

The last time we had multiple Batmans in a movie, it died on its fucking arse. One Batman is enough. DC can't afford another round of failure. The endless pursuit of the shared cinematic universe dollar will lead exactly to the same stupid result.

So a ton of DC superhero movies need to be halted for like six or seven years just so Reeves can finish his films?

And bruh, Flash underperforming had nothing to do with there being multiple Batmen in it. As I just pointed out, there was this 1.3 billion dollar grossing film that KIND OF undermines all the points you’re trying to make (multiple versions of the same character, audiences tired of sequels, etc.).

Even if you were right, I’d rather the Reeves Batman be over, even despite me quite enjoying the first one, and a universe-connected Batman start if it came to that. Sorry, we’ve had our fucking fill of stand alone Batman films, it’s time for something different (and no, a half baked DCEU with a lack of their own “Feige”, which Gunn will now fill that role for the new verse, does not count in my eyes).

But for real, why are you conveniently ignoring some of my points? Why is it okay for the MCU films and Spider-verse films to each have their own Peter, but for Batman it’s some mistake? And do not try to pull the “one’s animation, it’s different” card, that has jack and shit to do with the “superhero fatigue” narrative you chose to lean on.

Honestly though, there’s no point getting too deep into it with you. You’ve made it clear how you just “know” this new verse will fail despite there not even being a single trailer for their first major installment, Superman, yet. I mean, starting the MCU with an Iron Man film of all things could EASILY have failed (pre-2008, the character was not that big, Spider-man and X-men were who defined Marvel, heck Iron Man was so underused that in the 90’s Marvel vs. DC comic he didn’t get a spot in the primary or secondary fights!), yet here we are. Why, it’s almost like quality is often what truly matters!

I would rather judge how a new verse will do based on the quality of the installments which can’t even be estimated that well until at least a trailer is released. That shouldn’t be a hot take.

 

[FunkMiller]

So a ton of DC superhero movies need to be halted for like six or seven years just so Reeves can finish his films?

And bruh, Flash underperforming had nothing to do with there being multiple Batmen in it. As I just pointed out, there was this 1.3 billion dollar grossing film that KIND OF undermines all the points you’re trying to make (multiple versions of the same character, audiences tired of sequels, etc.).

Even if you were right, I’d rather the Reeves Batman be over, even despite me quite enjoying the first one, and a universe-connected Batman start if it came to that. Sorry, we’ve had our fucking fill of stand alone Batman films, it’s time for something different (and no, a half baked DCEU with a lack of their own “Feige”, which Gunn will now fill that role for the new verse, does not count in my eyes).

But for real, why are you conveniently ignoring some of my points? Why is it okay for the MCU films and Spider-verse films to each have their own Peter, but for Batman it’s some mistake? And do not try to pull the “one’s animation, it’s different” card, that has jack and shit to do with the “superhero fatigue” narrative you chose to lean on.

Honestly though, there’s no point getting too deep into it with you. You’ve made it clear how you just “know” this new verse will fail despite there not even being a single trailer for their first major installment, Superman, yet. I mean, starting the MCU with an Iron Man film of all things could EASILY have failed (pre-2008, the character was not that big, Spider-man and X-men were who defined Marvel, heck Iron Man was so underused that in the 90’s Marvel vs. DC comic he didn’t get a spot in the primary or secondary fights!), yet here we are. Why, it’s almost like quality is often what truly matters!

I would rather judge how a new verse will do based on the quality of the installments which can’t even be estimated that well until at least a trailer is released. That shouldn’t be a hot take.

I get it. You're a big Gunn fan.

Yet another shared universe is a mistake. Much better would have been the thing they should have done all along: standalone movies. But no... keep chasing the MCU, and see where it gets you.

Also, you're not undermining my point about multiple Batmans in a DCEU Flash movie when you bring up multiple Spidermans in an MCU movie. For what should be painfully obvious reasons. But in case it's not: Marvel gets to do stuff like that and succeed because it built a strong foundation (not any more but when No Way Home came out, definitely). DC has absolutely zero trust from the audience. Quality does indeed matter. Multiple Batman projects will put them off. It's a stupid strategy.

 

[Doom85]

I get it. You're a big Gunn fan.

Yet another shared universe is a mistake. Much better would have been the thing they should have done all along: standalone movies. But no... keep chasing the MCU, and see where it gets you.

Also, you're not undermining my point about multiple Batmans in a DCEU Flash movie when you bring up multiple Spidermans in an MCU movie. For what should be painfully obvious reasons. But in case it's not: Marvel gets to do stuff like that and succeed because it built a strong foundation (not any more but when No Way Home came out, definitely). DC has absolutely zero trust from the audience. Quality does indeed matter. Multiple Batman projects will put them off. It's a stupid strategy.

I get it. You’re a big Gunn hater.

Chasing the MCU? Bruh, the comics have both had shared universe forever, and DC actually beat Marvel to the punch outside of the comics with the DCAU (the 90’s Marvel cartoons had crossovers, but never really went places with it).

Spider-verse films are not MCU, what are you talking about? I was talking about Peter B. Parker from Spider-verse and Peter Parker from the MCU, I specified them. How you translated that to, “oh, he’s talking specifically about No Way Home and nothing more” baffles me.

Also trust is clearly irrelevant as Spider-man Homecomig and Into the Spider-verse (two films a year apart each featuring their own different Peter), hmm, remind me, what Spidey film they were following which must have built SO much trust with their audience? Oooooh, right, Amazing Spider-man 2, oh yeah, DEFINITELY a film that built trust with its audience, LOL.

Also, LOL, “Marvel gets to do stuff like that not anymore”. You’re really trying to ignore Deadpool and Wolverine’s existence and success, aren’t you? Which, you know, had a different Wolverine from the main timeline one.

 

[FunkMiller]

I get it. You’re a big Gunn hater.

Chasing the MCU? Bruh, the comics have both had shared universe forever, and DC actually beat Marvel to the punch outside of the comics with the DCAU (the 90’s Marvel cartoons had crossovers, but never really went places with it).

Spider-verse films are not MCU, what are you talking about? I was talking about Peter B. Parker from Spider-verse and Peter Parker from the MCU, I specified them. How you translated that to, “oh, he’s talking specifically about No Way Home and nothing more” baffles me.

Also trust is clearly irrelevant as Spider-man Homecomig and Into the Spider-verse (two films a year apart each featuring their own different Peter), hmm, remind me, what Spidey film they were following which must have built SO much trust with their audience? Oooooh, right, Amazing Spider-man 2, oh yeah, DEFINITELY a film that built trust with its audience, LOL.

Also, LOL, “Marvel gets to do stuff like that not anymore”. You’re really trying to ignore Deadpool and Wolverine’s existence and success, aren’t you? Which, you know, had a different Wolverine from the main timeline one.

Heh. Dude. I’m not a Gunn hater. I just look at DC’s output over the last ten years, and how much of a disaster it’s been (including Gunn’s input) and think that nobody should be undermining the only current popular thing they have.

And Deadpool 3 wasn’t successful because of multiverse, multiple iterations bullshit. If anything, the fact it dragged the MCU for doing that shit so much contributed to its success!

You can keep quoting other franchises until your blue in the face, but the fact remains only Reeves is delivering for WB/DC. Gunn interfering with that is idiotic, and will cost them if they try to force another Batman down people’s throats in the pursuit of dollars and nothing else.

 

[Doom85]

Heh. Dude. I’m not a Gunn hater. I just look at DC’s output over the last ten years, and how much of a disaster it’s been (including Gunn’s input) and think that nobody should be undermining the only current popular thing they have.

And Deadpool 3 wasn’t successful because of multiverse, multiple iterations bullshit. If anything, the fact it dragged the MCU for doing that shit so much contributed to its success!

You can keep quoting other franchises until your blue in the face, but the fact remains only Reeves is delivering. Gunn interfering with that is idiotic, and will cost them if they try to force another Batman down people’s throats in the pursuit of dollars and nothing else.

-funny, Wonder Woman 1 and Aquaman 1, which came out in the last ten years, each made more money than The Batman did.

And yes, I know their sequels did far worse, but I would laugh at someone if they acted like Wonder Woman 2 should be a valid example since WB idiotically released it to theaters in 2020, and the 2023 DC films clearly underperformed since fans knew the universe wasn’t getting a proper conclusion (plus in Aquaman’s case the Amber Heard element did not help surely), plus 4 films in a year was excessive (and Gunn has said for the new verse they will limit it to two films and two shows max per year).

Also, including Gunn’s input? I’m done arguing about The Suicide Squad’s performance, people apparently just want to magically forget a COVID variant reared its ugly head at the worst possible moment, but Peacemaker is getting a second season so clearly it must have been successful.

-a single joke, that lasted like fifteen seconds in a 128 minute film, about the quality of the multiverse, which contradicts the receptions of most of those multiverse specific films/shows (why, it’s almost like “superhero fatigue” narrative isn’t consistent or something!), contributed to the movie’s success?

-wow, so you don’t even own up to the fact you didn’t even pay attention to what Peter Parkers I specifically mentioned and thus you made a completely wrong follow up statement? If you can’t even take a small L like that but would rather just go, “well, it doesn’t matter!”, I don’t see what the point is in discussing this with you.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Uh, the clip I saw made it pretty unambiguous, dragging him down the hall with his pants pulled down after it cuts away from the assault in the bathroom. So I guess the moral of this story is you can rape the Joker out of him.

Fucking trash

Well to be honest, there has always been some sexual tension between Joker and Batman Still it is hilarious how this movie made gay jokes more mainstream again. They used a joker on Joker.

I wonder if they give it more development in other DC properties. Like this leaked footage of Superman movie

Spoiler

 

[Toots]

Sailed it, fell asleep during the trial sequence.
Woke up, put it again, fast forwarded a few musical numbers (kudos to Gaga for being a worldwide acclaimed popstar and still managing to sing "bad" during those. I guess they used mics that got all the imperfection and did not master anything afterward), arrived at the end and felt sad for Fleck, Phoenix and Philipps. It was a no win situation from the start.
Anyone with any expectation will be disappointed, and there's really no reason to go watch this sequel without any expectations...

Still i think it's a genuine try by those involved and not just a spiteful take on those who loved the first one.

 

[ManaByte]

And yes, I know their sequels did far worse, but I would laugh at someone if they acted like Wonder Woman 2 should be a valid example since WB idiotically released it to theaters in 2020, and the 2023 DC films clearly underperformed since fans knew the universe wasn’t getting a proper conclusion (plus in Aquaman’s case the Amber Heard element did not help surely), plus 4 films in a year was excessive (and Gunn has said for the new verse they will limit it to two films and two shows max per year).

It doesn't matter when they released them. Wonder Woman 1984 was a remake of Superman II. Aquaman 2 was a remake of Superman IV. The only mistake wasn't remaking Superman III.

 

[Doom85]

Wonder Woman 1984 was a remake of Superman II. Aquaman 2 was a remake of Superman IV.

 

[Kraz]

Where did he ever say this?

And he also never said he made Joker 2 as some fuck you to Arthur’s fans or incels.

The way people just run with narratives around here is crazy.

Here’s Todd complaining about woke culture:

Todd Phillips Left Comedy to Make ‘Joker’ Because ‘Woke Culture’ Ruined the Genre

How'd the guy who made the "Hangover" movies turn in such a dark twist on the superhero genre? Phillips blames the current culture.

www.indiewire.com

You think this guy is some super political liberal or something? Like he’s not some pro-Trump guy but he seems pretty even keeled and not wanting to be too political.

Perpetual victim mentality combined with hero complex fighting imagined injustice and claiming victory by burning a strawman - a message this movie sounds like it tries to get across.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

So which is the most enjoyable clusterfuck ?
Megalopolis or Folie à deux ?
It seems at least Coppola was genuine in his attempt at whatever he tried to do...

These two movies are not comparable.

Coppola gambled his own money on a PASSION project. Even if it's a turd, I applaud him for that, same as Nolan with Tenet.

Joker 2 is an absolute vandalization that should end Todd Philip's career and in a normal world he would be sued by Warner Bros.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Where did he ever say this?

And he also never said he made Joker 2 as some fuck you to Arthur’s fans or incels.

The way people just run with narratives around here is crazy.

Here’s Todd complaining about woke culture:


You think this guy is some super political liberal or something? Like he’s not some pro-Trump guy but he seems pretty even keeled and not wanting to be too political.

I don't care about his words, I care about his actions.

The first Joker is a leftist movie. But oddly enough, it's a good one so many people pretend they didn't notice.

We have Mr. Wayne turned into a parody of Donald Trump spouting stupid bullshit on TV and even if he's not the mayor people hate him just because.

The story is driven by the clash of four social classes: rich against poor, crazies against sound-minded. The crazies are portrayed as a social class, which is Marxist rhetoric. We have a poor crazy man who rebels against the evil men ruling the city.

Even so, leftists are so dumb that called this movie "right-wing" (same as they did with Starship Trooper) so the director took notice and this time made sure that everybody knew better at the cost of bombing his own movie, which is the decision of a crazy man, a very meta thing.

 

[Toots]

These two movies are not comparable.

Coppola gambled his own money on a PASSION project. Even if it's a turd, I applaud him for that, same as Nolan with Tenet.

Joker 2 is an absolute vandalization that should end Todd Philip's career and in a normal world he would be sued by Warner Bros.

I understand that Coppola comes from a more genuine place than Philips. I even said it in my post.

My question wasn't "who deserves leniency or scrutiny?", it was "which one is the more enjoyable clusterfuck ?"

I watched joker 2, didn't find it good but im clearly not invested as much as you seem to be in movies...

Anyway, i don't know about you, but anyone getting sued by Warner, Disney, Apple, Netflix or any of the movie/streaming industry giants, for a movie they made is a good guy in my book.

 

[Nickolaidas]

at the end and felt sad for Fleck, Phoenix and Philipps.

Don't feel bad for Phoenix, he got a shit ton of money to star in this movie.

 

[jason10mm]

Don't feel bad for Phoenix, he got a shit ton of money to star in this movie.

I wonder if he gave up pay for a % of the backend. Given how much the first one made it wouldn't surprise me. Then again, maybe he knew how it was gonna turn out and took his pay up front.