pauljeremiah
Gold Member
That was misguided, misjudged and so fucking boring.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
FunkMiller
Member
Apparently the box office for this now seems to be tracking at around the same level as The Marvels.
RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
Ok guys, I read the reviews and decided to see it anyway.
Fuck me. It's shit. They really disregard Harley's original design and continue with the millenial/gen z slut thing. And the ending made my wife laugh, she's not even super into the Batman lore but has seen all the movies (her favorite is Batman Returns, same as me). Man it's shit. So disappointed. We missed out on Alien Romulus and had this as our replacement cinema night.
They fucked it up SO bad.
The ultimate sin is that it's BORING. Not even in the fart sniffing art house style of boring, it's just flat. Flat, hilariously safe in the way it tries to LOL INCEL! the original. Flat. Boring. Shit.
Fuck me. It's shit. They really disregard Harley's original design and continue with the millenial/gen z slut thing. And the ending made my wife laugh, she's not even super into the Batman lore but has seen all the movies (her favorite is Batman Returns, same as me). Man it's shit. So disappointed. We missed out on Alien Romulus and had this as our replacement cinema night.
They fucked it up SO bad.
The ultimate sin is that it's BORING. Not even in the fart sniffing art house style of boring, it's just flat. Flat, hilariously safe in the way it tries to LOL INCEL! the original. Flat. Boring. Shit.
Last edited:
Doom85
Member
I think it’s certainly true to suggest that Phillips wanted to make a sequel that undermined the first movie, but he’s not really given a clear reason as to why as yet. I do believe it’s quite possible that the idiotic opinions of a vocal minority on social media can have a disproportionate effect on spineless movie executives though, because we’ve seen it happen before.
My main takeaway is that if you don’t want the audience to sympathise with your version of The Joker then don’t write him sympathetic in the first fucking place Todd, you fucking hack
It sucks because anyone could easily mock people who think Arthur’s actions are remotely justified (which figures includes a few people in this thread) without telling all the movie’s fans to go fuck themselves. The first guy on the subway could be argued as self-defense (though I don’t think Arthur’s life was in danger necessarily, but let’s not derail this into a political discussion in that matter). The second guy, more iffy, but the third guy was straight up murder as he was just running away and clearly posed no threat to Arthur’s life anymore. Robert De Niro’s killing is also straight up murder, and even if de Niro’s character isn’t the nicest guy, a lot of what he criticizes Arthur for is straight up facts. De Niro even points out one of Joker’s followers was killed earlier that day, and Arthur makes it clear he does not give a shit, indicating right there that no, this Joker does not care about this “movement”, in fact he’s miserable that no one will ever notice Arthur but only care about “Joker”.
And no, Arthur is not mentally ill to the point he could legally get away with this. He even admits to De Niro he just doesn’t care anymore about it being morally wrong to kill who you want. The dude has no defense even with his mental health issues and the government fucking him over on his medication.
The sequel could have dived into this without destroying who the main character is.
Have Arthur backstab some of his followers to escape and evade the police as the followers slowly realize they (and their “cause”) meant jack shit to Arthur who is just killing because he wants to by this point, and the Joker movement loses most of its steam by the end of the film. And yes, the idea of the real (or at least next) Joker emerging from this could work (I’ve not watched Gotham, but I heard they toy with this concept, plus the Three Jokers comic), especially since the main comic Joker is well known for not having a definitive backstory, but don’t do it like this. Have Arthur as Joker go out swinging against the police rather than just dying anticlimactically. Have Harley say something along the lines of, “Joker wasn’t a man. He was an idea. And ideas don’t die so easily” (maybe do it a little more subtle, and maybe not in a way that is blatantly similar to the V for Vendetta line, but you get the idea) as she follows the new Joker into the night.
So the sequel could still take swings at the loser incels while still respecting fans of the original who appreciated the first film but weren’t deluded into thinking Arthur was morally justified or some shit. Like, David Chase, creator of The Sopranos, mocked fans who thought Tony Soprano was a good person at the end of the day, but for as divisive as the finale was it also wasn’t telling fans they wasted their time with all of this.
Last edited:
digoutyoursoul
Member
Do film makers produce inferior content on purpose at times and if so, for what purpose. Makes me wonder what the thought process is going into making something like this.
At least we didn’t get the scaremongering media tactics like we did with the first one when that was about to release. That was shameful.
At least we didn’t get the scaremongering media tactics like we did with the first one when that was about to release. That was shameful.
Werewolf Jones
Member
AVGN predicted the ending like 20 years ago.
March Climber
Member
Based on what everyone is saying, it sounds like the people who wrote this movie took a small page from Gotham TV, except Gotham TV did a slightly better job. To explain, Gotham TV has two pivotal characters who show up in a later season, Jerome and Jeremiah. They are twin brothers. Both have a moment where they go insane and become 'Joker'.
Jerome is the traditional 'Nicholson/Ledger' mix of Joker:
Jeremiah is the 'cold/calculated' version of Joker (that was previously only seen in certain comic books):
As you can see, these two were actually Joker at certain points in their lives. Now people who have seen this movie are probably wondering "wait, how does this relate and how can there be two Jokers?" Well, you see the thing about both Jerome and Jeremiah is...
The reason I'm saying 'slightly better' is because Cameron Monoghan acted his ass off for both roles, in multiple episodes, to portray two hybrid jokers, and if you watched the show from the beginning, his performance is pretty damn believable. He pretty much carried the season he was in for the show and the ratings shot up partly due to his performance (but also better writing). From this movie it sounds like...
I don't mind the symbol idea in my first spoiler, but it just goes to show that the execution needs to be there in order for it to work effectively. When the movie is a musical with not that great direction in writing, that type of twist rings hollow.
Jerome is the traditional 'Nicholson/Ledger' mix of Joker:
Jeremiah is the 'cold/calculated' version of Joker (that was previously only seen in certain comic books):
As you can see, these two were actually Joker at certain points in their lives. Now people who have seen this movie are probably wondering "wait, how does this relate and how can there be two Jokers?" Well, you see the thing about both Jerome and Jeremiah is...
Neither of them are actually the real Joker. There is simply a scene after post-Jerome/Jeremiah's death that implies the real Joker was inspired by the actions of both and part of this is because Bruce Wayne is simply too young for a society to have a Joker with no Batman. In a way, it turns Joker and his origin into more of a symbol like Batman (and how Batman can end up being Dick Grayson or Terry McGinnis in the future).
The reason I'm saying 'slightly better' is because Cameron Monoghan acted his ass off for both roles, in multiple episodes, to portray two hybrid jokers, and if you watched the show from the beginning, his performance is pretty damn believable. He pretty much carried the season he was in for the show and the ratings shot up partly due to his performance (but also better writing). From this movie it sounds like...
Arthur Fleck stopped being that person rather than go further down the rabbit hole to become another version of Joker. It also sounds like there was less direction for the character and movie itself, and 'The Wire' style random killing at the end wasn't a good enough payoff for both
I don't mind the symbol idea in my first spoiler, but it just goes to show that the execution needs to be there in order for it to work effectively. When the movie is a musical with not that great direction in writing, that type of twist rings hollow.
Revolutionary
Member
I've never walked out of a movie but if I watched this in theaters, I probably would have. This is a movie made to be watched windowed while you do other things in other windows.
Thank god for streaming sites that allow me to do that on opening weekend...
Thank god for streaming sites that allow me to do that on opening weekend...
Pegasus Actual
Member
Damn, everyone really hates this thing, lol.
Nickolaidas
Member
Saw it yesterday with my cousin and her husband. We all hated it. What a crock of shit. They completely destroyed the Joker, Harley is the only character with anything resembling agency - and ironically enough, if you take her out of the movie, NOTHING. FUCKING. CHANGES. She's completely redundant and unnecessary.
This movie was made to punish the people who liked Arthur's character in the first film.
I think the Drinker is WAY too nice to this turd of a film.
This movie was made to punish the people who liked Arthur's character in the first film.
I think the Drinker is WAY too nice to this turd of a film.
Last edited:
Jaybe
Member
Joker 2 gets a “D” CinemaScore becoming the worst rated movie ever that cost over $100 million. CinemaScore surveys attendees on opening night for their opinion and if they would recommend the movie.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Tank the reception and box office to own the chuds 
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Holy shit worse than Megalopolis' D+Joker 2 gets a “D” CinemaScore becoming the worst rated movie ever that cost over $100 million. CinemaScore surveys attendees on opening night for their opinion and if they would recommend the movie.
Lunarorbit
Member
Holy shit. That's the same director?
Hangover 2 is one of the worst movies i spent money on. Luckily got to see the 1st film for free as a test audience member so it balances out.
Seriously though, that was so bad. And this director is now chastising people for the 1st joker? Yikes dude. Ed helms entire arc is so fucking cringey in that film
Power Pro
Member
This scene would have worked better imo if it wasn't yet another fucking fantasy. Like has been stated in here already, his development into Joker was completely backtracked. What I would have liked to have seen is this song being done while Joker and Harley are creating actual chaos in Gotham. The mountain being their level of power and influence.
Kraz
Member
I think I'm going to get a lot of of this and Megalopolis, but waiting for streaming. That they're not formulaic and sound disjointed is intriguing for this as it seems movies have gotten very simple and predictable for modern audiences.
Seeing the delusions in terms of commenting on fan culture as representing how possessive fans view themselves when conveying their self-importance through their attachment to fantasy characters gives the scenes and the original movie a context that I'm enjoying. It's like the acted out imagination of someone making a meme post and think they're saying something. That this self reflection is heavy handed in the film is lol.
Seeing the delusions in terms of commenting on fan culture as representing how possessive fans view themselves when conveying their self-importance through their attachment to fantasy characters gives the scenes and the original movie a context that I'm enjoying. It's like the acted out imagination of someone making a meme post and think they're saying something. That this self reflection is heavy handed in the film is lol.
MMaRsu
Member
Yup same director. Terrible movie that was.
So I'm not surprised, he didn't seem to want to make Joker 2 nor did he want to make Hangover 2 I believe.
Toons
Member
Never saw the first, my brother did well after all the hype and thought it was underwhelming.
Considering they originally said there would be no sequel im not surprised this one seems all over the place. The entire premise of this saga was just odd... having an adult joker with Bruce Wayne as a child is a wierd idea.
Considering they originally said there would be no sequel im not surprised this one seems all over the place. The entire premise of this saga was just odd... having an adult joker with Bruce Wayne as a child is a wierd idea.
thefool
Member
If it bombs, chuds win again.Tank the reception and box office to own the chuds
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Was Bruce Wayne even in the movie? I missed that.
Nydius
Gold Member
Most of the TV trailers didn’t play a single bar of music. I imagine a lot of people only knew of the movie from those TV spots and, if they didn’t dig deeper, wouldn’t know it was a “dark musical”.
I wonder how many people got roped into seeing it based on the teasers which made it look similar in design to the first movie only to get about 15 minutes in and end up like this:
I wonder how many people got roped into seeing it based on the teasers which made it look similar in design to the first movie only to get about 15 minutes in and end up like this:
Toons
Member
Bruce was in the first movie as a child... and iirc the movirnimpkies he might be jokers brother or something? It's odd
I don't think the musical element in and of itself is the problem, but exactly how they were trying to use it. For that matter, the story isn't good either.
In other words, for those who are into anime, here's a quick comparison:
One Piece Film Red >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joker 2
In other words, for those who are into anime, here's a quick comparison:
One Piece Film Red >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joker 2
Last edited:
Interfectum
Member
I can’t even remember Hangover 2… what was so bad about it again?
Werewolf Jones
Member
I do think this film might be lowkey queer coded. Lady Gaga AND Joker gets booty blasted? That's got more gay appeal than Agatha.
All it needs is for Joker to say "Yes, I'm brat." In the court room and it would've been a lock.
All it needs is for Joker to say "Yes, I'm brat." In the court room and it would've been a lock.
Last edited:
Going by the spoilers and impressions for this one, it’s a direct reaction to the drama about the scary incel boogeymen who identified with Arthur, those stories having made the rounds in the press following the original’s release.
But…he was designed to be sympathetic in the original. A messed up, sad, psychotic, murderous character, but one we pitied and understood as a tragic character study, a la Scorsese. Of course, disillusioned people could also identify and relate, maybe admire Arthur standing up for himself and rejecting society in return for being rejected. Pretty easy to see that coming.
I can readily believe that a Hollywood director would be so ridiculous and petty that he intentionally undermined Arthur and reverted all of his character development and dumped it all into a Lady Gaga musical format just to lash out at the people who liked the first movie, though.
But…he was designed to be sympathetic in the original. A messed up, sad, psychotic, murderous character, but one we pitied and understood as a tragic character study, a la Scorsese. Of course, disillusioned people could also identify and relate, maybe admire Arthur standing up for himself and rejecting society in return for being rejected. Pretty easy to see that coming.
I can readily believe that a Hollywood director would be so ridiculous and petty that he intentionally undermined Arthur and reverted all of his character development and dumped it all into a Lady Gaga musical format just to lash out at the people who liked the first movie, though.
What I can't believe is that DC would drop TWO HUNDRED FRICKEN MILLION on this script!!! A modest 50 million cash grab and a "fuck you" from your coastal ivory tower to all the unwashed middle americans, sure, but for the execs to drop 200 mill and see where this was going just exposes more rot at the core of WB and DC.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Friends, I think it's reverse psychology on the part of Warner Bros.. How bad the movie is... I'm attracted to it... I don't want to go to the movies... But curiosity tells me to go see it. ...My hand is shaking 
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
I wanted to see Joker throwing bombs, shooting machine guns or having a cameo with Batman... Not a clown dancing Tap.... Wtf!!?
200 million dollars and they can't synchronize the sound of their shoes??
Last edited:
ChuckeRearmed
Member
The hilarious part is that they made the movie to deny and oppose everything that made Joker 1 and send a message to chuds, and then they complain that the chuds are to blame for not willing to watch the movie
I am kinda curious where it is coming from - from SW to other IPs, what's the point of making content that goes against the crowd that supported it in the first place? I guess all those writers feel that they are untouchable or something. Shame that they are not kicked out of the industry when they do stuff like that.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Maybe Hollywood thinks the audience is wrong.
That does not understand the art abstract work .
That does not understand the art abstract work .
Fucking knew the fake out sounded familiar, they did it with Gotham over multiple seasons.
Fake
Member
Nothing will ever beat Matrix in this regards, but is almost close.
Is a bad movie, but bad in a way of wasted potential.
For someone not knowing that stupid director ideia of 'incel' thing, is a waste of potential.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I don't think this actually happens, there's not even a small vague indicator like one of guards unbuckling or something, they just throw him on the ground and then in the next scene his legs are full of bruises; seems to me they just beat the shit out of him.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Warner bros has done terrible things... I used to like some of the company's producers... But these days I'm already an Anti-Warner bros user.
ManaByte
Gold Member
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Uh, the clip I saw made it pretty unambiguous, dragging him down the hall with his pants pulled down after it cuts away from the assault in the bathroom. So I guess the moral of this story is you can rape the Joker out of him.
Fucking trash
Banjo64
cumsessed
Mr1999
Member
Watched it with brother in law, I swear I thought I was going to go in disliking the movie but I somewhat enjoyed it. I think he makes an passable version of Joker and Lady Gaga aint too bad of a Harley quinn herself. I don't know the background on Joker or Quinn all too much , I mean I know who he they are but Harley Quinn is nothing but toxic for Joker, that's what I learned watching this. Personally I don't know what happened in the end,
is he dead or what?
Last edited:
diffusionx
Gold Member
They say that commercials and trailers are the movie that the studio wishes they madeMost of the TV trailers didn’t play a single bar of music. I imagine a lot of people only knew of the movie from those TV spots and, if they didn’t dig deeper, wouldn’t know it was a “dark musical”.
I wonder how many people got roped into seeing it based on the teasers which made it look similar in design to the first movie only to get about 15 minutes in and end up like this:
RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
Yes. He does.
The film is a whole dismantle operation on the original film. It's fucken S H I T.
Imagine making an Oscar winning movie and then deciding NAH FUCK THAT LOL dem incels liked it!
The movie wasn't even anything to do with incels or violence against women - it was about fucking classism.
The whole movie is a fucken joke. I almost walked out.
In fact, I'm genuinely angry they have my money and that I'm a statistic on their spreadsheet.
DO NOT WATCH THIS SHIT IN THE CINEMA.
Last edited:
FunkMiller
Member
Yep, as I said earlier in the thread, if you don’t want people to sympathise with The Joker, don’t write him sympathetic.
This movie is one long exercise in Todd Phillip’s being an extremely weak human being.
Mr1999
Member
It's become a meme at this point with the rape scene, people were spreading rumors that
Joker got raped 3 times and then the last time he started enjoying it and ejaculated
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked