I read something to that effect. Something about him making the movie a specific way to get at the incels that 'idolized' the character and related to it.
If so? That's so fucking petty. Imagine shitting on your career, after riding on it's high? This person deserves continuous flops, after this.
So, he's so fragile of ego and backbone that he'd let what turned out to be a very small minority of idiots influence his movie so heavily?
I can certainly believe that. If there's one thing that marks out so many 'creatives' in the movie industry these days it's how spineless they are, and how easily they'll capitulate to the whims of a vocal minority.
So, he's so fragile of ego and backbone that he'd let what turned out to be a very small minority of idiots influence his movie so heavily?
I can certainly believe that. If there's one thing that marks out so many 'creatives' in the movie industry these days it's how spineless they are, and how easily they'll capitulate to the whims of a vocal minority.
There's lots of singing and 95% of it is for absolutely nothing. Phillips said music was used in this film to dive directly into the mind of the joker but that was just B.S. It serves absolutely no purpose at all.
Like I said in my last post, decided to see it even after knowing spoilers cuz I like getting my own opinion. I will say, I think the performances are still great. Phoenix and Gaga are both great in it, as is the supporting cast...but man. Every thing else is not good. The script, the pacing, the editing...It has nothing to tell. It's a complete destruction of the first movie it feels like. They hated that they made a good movie with the first one, and said "fuck, we gotta make people hate it actually" The first film felt like it was showing Arthur become someone who would no longer be abused by those around him, and take control, but this movie is just the complete opposite, and shows him being beaten back down into nothing.
This stupid idea because "incels" or whatever related to him being a bad thing is so fucking idiotic. How could they not see that some people would relate to Arthur in the first movie? He's set up as this guy who does terrible things, but they write it in the film where you could see it justified to a point from his point of view because of how poorly he's treated. Sure he's obviously mentally ill because he's disassociated with reality in a number of ways, but it is because of how he was treated. I always thought the film was trying to set up that people like the Waynes are just as bad to people down below, and they were fighting upward because the elite were cruel to those at the bottom. People like the Joker made Bruce Wayne become Batman, but people like Thomas Wayne made people like Arthur become the Joker. I thought that that's what it was telling the audience. They wrote the film making him empathetic, and showing why he would snap and become the Joker.
Guess I gotta tag spoilers
One thing I don't entirely hate and not mind about how he's not the "real" Joker, so setting up that someone else is, is not the worst idea. While I think the first one was a good movie, it never really felt like Arthur Fleck was the Joker that we think of. In almost every iteration I can think of, the Joker is usually actually funny in a morbid way. Arthur never was, and was always kinda pathetic and completely damaged. It was a well told story in the first movie about a character who dressed like a clown, but never really seemed like a person who could be Batman's arch-enemy.
Anyway, yeah...fuck this movie. Wish I had seen Beetlejuice a second time instead.
Now i need to see this. The first one was amazing but if the ending is really this bad i need to watch this trainwreck in motion to fully appreciate the suck.
So which is the most enjoyable clusterfuck ?
Megalopolis or Folie à deux ?
It seems at least Coppola was genuine in his attempt at whatever he tried to do...
I was really hoping this would be a banger and not a bomber as I loved Joker. I haven't had much luck with films of late. I really didn't like Long Legs, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice or Alien Romulus this year.
I don’t really hate the idea that he’s not the Joker that goes on to be Batman’s nemesis…the first movie has him inspiring all sorts of people to mimic him, right? But it sounds like it’s implied he wasn’t the guy doing all the shit he did in the first movie? I hate that kind of twist. That’s like MGSV level of dumb twist imo. And it’s a musical? Ugh
I finally watched the first movie on a plane a couple months ago and it’s great, but yeah this sounds like a total fumble after that.
This stupid idea because "incels" or whatever related to him being a bad thing is so fucking idiotic. How could they not see that some people would relate to Arthur in the first movie? He's set up as this guy who does terrible things, but they write it in the film where you could see it justified to a point from his point of view because of how poorly he's treated. Sure he's obviously mentally ill because he's disassociated with reality in a number of ways, but it is because of how he was treated. I always thought the film was trying to set up that people like the Waynes are just as bad to people down below, and they were fighting upward because the elite were cruel to those at the bottom. People like the Joker made Bruce Wayne become Batman, but people like Thomas Wayne made people like Arthur become the Joker. I thought that that's what it was telling the audience. They wrote the film making him empathetic, and showing why he would snap and become the Joker.
The first movie was absolutely brilliant. It portrayed mental illness like no other movie with Joaquin's performance. They way he portrayed depression in that movie was peak acting. The famous stairs scene just resumed depression flawlessly, with the weight of the world on his shoulders.
It also portrayed problems of the society in trying to get help and the system completely failing. People in power being bullies etc..
But no, they had to destroy all of that because of a very small cringe part of fans of the movie.
But oh well, what could we expect from Phillips who cancelled his Hulk Hogan biopic for political reasons.
I find it amazing that after all the Batman related content out there, the Fox Kids cartoon BTAS is still the best for me. Bale movies were good too (first two solid, last one meh). Ya there's some shitty episodes and they screwed up cheaping out on art in the final season, but holistically, I still think BTAS is the best content out there. Joker, Riddler, Clock King, Scarecrow, Lock Up, the evil ninja dude etc... awesome stuff. One of my fav episodes is the mental dude who thinks he's fucking Zeus with a lightning rod.
The first movie was absolutely brilliant. It portrayed mental illness like no other movie with Joaquin's performance. They way he portrayed depression in that movie was peak acting. The famous stairs scene just resumed depression flawlessly, with the weight of the world on his shoulders.
It also portrayed problems of the society in trying to get help and the system completely failing. People in power being bullies etc..
But no, they had to destroy all of that because of a very small cringe part of fans of the movie.
But oh well, what could we expect from Phillips who cancelled his Hulk Hogan biopic for political reasons.
I thought the first movie's story was ok but the depiction of mental illness, access to services and a society on the brink was one of the best I've seen.
Psychiatric services in the NHS now are positively dystopian and this made me think of the situation for so many patients even if it wasn't set in the UK.
How'd the guy who made the "Hangover" movies turn in such a dark twist on the superhero genre? Phillips blames the current culture.
www.indiewire.com
You think this guy is some super political liberal or something? Like he’s not some pro-Trump guy but he seems pretty even keeled and not wanting to be too political.
I find it amazing that after all the Batman related content out there, the Fox Kids cartoon BTAS is still the best for me. Bale movies were good too (first two solid, last one meh). Ya there's some shitty episodes and they screwed up cheaping out on art in the final season, but holistically, I still think BTAS is the best content out there. Joker, Riddler, Clock King, Scarecrow, Lock Up, the evil ninja dude etc... awesome stuff. One of my fav episodes is the mental dude who thinks he's fucking Zeus with a lightning rod.
BTAS was a kids show that struck a perfect balance between goofy and serious. It often dealt with very mature subjects, and always in a respectful way. It is as enjoyable to watch at 35 as it is when you're 10.
I'd consider BTAS, some of the animated movies like Batman Returns and Long Halloween, and the Arkham games lightyears ahead of any of the movies. Matt Reeves got pretty far and pretty much nailed the atmosphere but the movie is dreadfully boring and thinks it's way smarter than it actually is which is a huge downer.
It's quite fascinating how the creatives of Hollywood can be so incredibly ideological that they willingly make a sequel for close to $200 million that only serves to spite those who liked the first movie a bit too much. I wonder how much thought they put into it being entertaining or fitting with the first movie. I also wonder what Warner Bros are thinking right now. I liked the first one as a character study of proto-Joker and couldn't care less about people idealizing him for some reason, but it does peeve me that the creators became obsessed by those fans.
Hoo boy I knew the sequel is gonna be mid from the moment it went chasing after La La Land. But these reactions on socmed made me cancel plans seeing it and wait for streaming.
Film was delayed, funding was dropped by Netflix, the movie never had a real screenplay.. Hemsworth never officially signed on, etc.
Movie was in "development hell" because of COVID and strikes and Todd Philips only confirmed it wasn't happening in August, that doesn't mean that's when it was "cancelled." The movie was already effectively cancelled last year when Netflix dropped out.
Whether politics affected a movie being made isn't off limits here BTW, as we aren't arguing politics lol
This entire thread is just running with narratives without real evidence. Philips likes taking big risks and likes mixing things up for sequels (considering the tonal shift of Hangover). That's far more likely than some weird theory he made the movie to piss off some small portion of Joker 1's fanbase. Everyone is pissed off at Joker 2 lol Everyone also thought Hangover 2 sucked and was weird, it's pretty doubtful Philips made that movie to piss off fans of The Hangover lol
Hangover 2 was still Hangover. It's the third one that went full "fuck you".
Joker 2: More Joker would be free money. Instead, they're pissing away millions to own incels or something.
Hangover 2 was still Hangover. It's the third one that went full "fuck you".
Joker 2: More Joker would be free money. Instead, they're pissing away millions to own incels or something.
So it's like The Matrix Revolutions which almost verbatim spells out that it was a needless, terrible idea and nobody except the studio wanted it to happen?
I've regrettably watched it and it's definitely the polar opposite of the first film. Todd Phillips without a shadow of a doubt took the legacy of the first film and defecated on it. On a positive note I've saved myself £35 on a 4k uhd steelbook.
I think it’s certainly true to suggest that Phillips wanted to make a sequel that undermined the first movie, but he’s not really given a clear reason as to why as yet. I do believe it’s quite possible that the idiotic opinions of a vocal minority on social media can have a disproportionate effect on spineless movie executives though, because we’ve seen it happen before.
My main takeaway is that if you don’t want the audience to sympathise with your version of The Joker then don’t write him sympathetic in the first fucking place Todd, you fucking hack
I find it amazing that after all the Batman related content out there, the Fox Kids cartoon BTAS is still the best for me. Bale movies were good too (first two solid, last one meh). Ya there's some shitty episodes and they screwed up cheaping out on art in the final season, but holistically, I still think BTAS is the best content out there. Joker, Riddler, Clock King, Scarecrow, Lock Up, the evil ninja dude etc... awesome stuff. One of my fav episodes is the mental dude who thinks he's fucking Zeus with a lightning rod.
As someone with a potentially marriage-ending amount of Batman comics in my basement dating back to the 50s, I will enthusiastically co-sign this opinion.
Looking back, it really was lightning in a bottle to bring all those people together and make BTAS. Bruce Timm, Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamill, Paul Dini, Shirley Walker and a bunch of others were just magic together. I really don't think we'll see something quite like it again.
www.indiewire.com
