Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Is it a debacle if he did it on purpose? He apparently hates Joker fans. He won't tank another film on purpose
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Revolutionary
Member
Your only issue with The Batman is a deleted scene? The Batman has a lot of issues, but a deleted scene is not one of them. On the contrary, actually... because they had the foresight to remove it from the movie, they have the option to do something different with Joker in the future if they want to.
Hotel Security
Member
Agreed. I've seen the scene. It's deleted because it's completely pointless and no new information is divulged...it only exists to show off the creepy version of the Joker. I'm glad it was yanked. I didn't mind his appearance at the end, really...it was short and didn't mean much.
What?
Last edited:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Yeah its a debacle because its turned out to be a terrible investment of a whole lot of money. Not only has it not turned the profit they hoped for, its damaged investor confidence, brand value, and consumer interest in their upcoming slate.
Somebody has to carry the blame for all that.
Ulysses 31
Member
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
A thousand nerds all get ready to explain what that budget figure doesn't include and how the film is nowhere near break even.
Kraz
Member
With Joker 2 coming to streaming soon, the recent article by Alan Moore about fan culture has some interesting relevant observations.
It has helped adjust the lens of how I'm going to approach watching the film.
The age demo connected to fan behaviors under the microscope makes the casting choice for a Joker about fan culture perfect for breaking down fanatical song and dance displays.
"
Concerning the word “fan”, I first encountered this contraction of “fanatic” during childhood, in a television documentary on the phenomenon. All I remember is the weary spouse of a woman devoted to the late Jim Reeves, sitting in a family home that had become a mausoleum of memorabilia, and mournfully accepting that his wife had only married him because his name happened to be James Reeves. Soon after that, the word passed into common usage, although only in the milder sense of somebody quite liking something, and without the connotations of a person listening to Distant Drums on endless replay with the curtains drawn, or a cultist running wild-eyed from the treeline waving a machete. “Fan”, then, meant merely “enthusiast”, but sounded less Edwardian.
...
I looked back, after an internet and some few decades, fandom was a very different animal.
An older animal for one thing, with a median age in its late 40s, fed, presumably, by a nostalgia that its energetic predecessor was too young to suffer from. And while the vulgar comic story was originally proffered solely to the working classes, soaring retail prices had precluded any audience save the more affluent; had gentrified a previously bustling and lively cultural slum neighbourhood. This boost in fandom’s age and status possibly explains its current sense of privilege, its tendency to carp and cavil rather than contribute or create. I speak only of comics fandom here, but have gained the impression that this reflexive belligerence ... is now a part of many fan communities. My 14-year-old grandson tells me older Pokémon aficionados can display the same febrile disgruntlement. Is this a case of those unwilling to outgrow childhood enthusiasms, possibly because these anchor them to happier and less complex times, who now feel they should be sole arbiters of their pursuit?
There are, of course, entirely benign fandoms, networks of cooperative individuals who quite like the same thing, can chat with others sharing the same pastime and, importantly, provide support for one another in difficult times. These healthy subcultures, however, are less likely to impact on society in the same way that the more strident and presumptuous fandoms have managed. Unnervingly rapidly, our culture has become a fan-based landscape that the rest of us are merely living in. Our entertainments may be cancelled prematurely through an adverse fan reaction...
An enthusiasm that is fertile and productive can enrich life and society, just as displacing personal frustrations into venomous tirades about your boyhood hobby can devalue them. Quite liking something is OK. You don’t need the machete or the megaphone.
"
*link
Pegasus Actual
Member
^
poodaddy
Member
Fake
Member
Modern journalism in a nutshell.
Alan Moore isn't a journalist though?
Doom85
Member
Oh come on, why so nitpicky? Next you’ll be saying Alan Moore, a 70 year old man, isn’t “modern” either!
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Domestically US/Canada, Joker 2 and Transformers One will end up with around the same gate receipts (ballpark $60M). Both movies about the same sales, theatre count and sales/theatre. Joker 2 has done much better internationally though.
But still, pretty crazy a Transformers cartoon will do as well as Joker 2 in US/Canada.
-1-Full.jpg)
www.the-numbers.com
But still, pretty crazy a Transformers cartoon will do as well as Joker 2 in US/Canada.
The Numbers - Weekend Box Office Chart for November 22, 2024
Weekend Domestic Box Office Chart for the weekend of November 22, 2024
www.the-numbers.com
Last edited:
Someone’s triggered^
GateofD
Member
I don't mind that its a 'musical' I can love musicals
But the singing sucked, the songs sucks, the lyrics had nearly nothing to do with the scene that preceded it or shed new light on the character.
I just pretend this one never existed and just keep my good memories of the first one.
But the singing sucked, the songs sucks, the lyrics had nearly nothing to do with the scene that preceded it or shed new light on the character.
I just pretend this one never existed and just keep my good memories of the first one.
poodaddy
Member
How much do you hate yourself? The answer to this question is essential to answering your initial question.
StueyDuck
Member
That bad hey
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Quite the opposite, it takes extreme cowardice and malice to do what he did.
He scammed Warner, secured a fat paycheck, trolled the fanbase using an IP that doesn't belong to him just to feed his massive ego.
Francis Ford Coppola was brave. Todd Philips is just a spineless scumbag. Any creator that goes against fans doesn't belong in the entertainment industry.
We'll see what his follow up is. More of the same towards "toxic fans" or something totally different. He's not a director i personally follow much so I'm certainly not waiting with baited breath for his next gig.
poodaddy
Member
Yyyyuuuuuup
StueyDuck
Member
I think the weekend maybe me and the lady will give it a few mins but yeah I'm not expecting much.
I d said before it's a completely pointless cash grab sequel. So I don't have any positive expectations
b0uncyfr0
Member
Just finished it - its definitely a few musicals too much for me. I was expecting it to be bad but its just really different. The last 25 minutes bumped it up to a 5/10 for me.
Maybe its just a joke - maybe there is a real Joker 2 coming in 2 years..?
They cant just leave it at that, right...
Maybe its just a joke - maybe there is a real Joker 2 coming in 2 years..?
They cant just leave it at that, right...
cormack12
Gold Member
Just saw it, not really sure what I'm meant to take from it, except maybe the 'origin' story of the 'real' joker.
I have no idea which sections were real, which cues delineated reality from fantasy (except the obvious scenes like the stage and gun), or who was actually alive when.
Also, when he was getting beaten, did the cops
I have no idea which sections were real, which cues delineated reality from fantasy (except the obvious scenes like the stage and gun), or who was actually alive when.
Also, when he was getting beaten, did the cops
rape or sodomise him?
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
This is what I've been saying. Joker fans deserve this film.
deadline.com
Quentin Tarantino Praises ‘Joker: Folie À Deux’ & Todd Phillips, Calls Film A “F*** You” To Hollywood & Comic Book Fans
Quentin Tarantino is praising Todd Phillips and Joker: Folie à Deux after the Warner Bros. film bombed at the box office.
deadline.com
Angry_Megalodon
Member
This is what I've been saying. Joker fans deserve this film.
Quentin Tarantino Praises ‘Joker: Folie À Deux’ & Todd Phillips, Calls Film A “F*** You” To Hollywood & Comic Book Fans
Quentin Tarantino is praising Todd Phillips and Joker: Folie à Deux after the Warner Bros. film bombed at the box office.
Why, though. It seems spiteful and ungrateful. Ungrateful people are entitled bitches. It's fans who pay their bills. Who else?
Imagine G.R.R. Martin killing every character in his next book just because he's fed up with fans.
In the case of Tood Philips it's much worse, because he's pissing off a fandom he got from others.
Last edited:
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
People are petty. When saying nothing would be best they cut to the quick.This is what I've been saying. Joker fans deserve this film.
Quentin Tarantino Praises ‘Joker: Folie À Deux’ & Todd Phillips, Calls Film A “F*** You” To Hollywood & Comic Book Fans
Quentin Tarantino is praising Todd Phillips and Joker: Folie à Deux after the Warner Bros. film bombed at the box office.
Doom85
Member
This is what I've been saying. Joker fans deserve this film.
Quentin Tarantino Praises ‘Joker: Folie À Deux’ & Todd Phillips, Calls Film A “F*** You” To Hollywood & Comic Book Fans
Quentin Tarantino is praising Todd Phillips and Joker: Folie à Deux after the Warner Bros. film bombed at the box office.
They could have easily made a sequel that mocks people who idolize the Joker without disrespecting the character and general fans, and also avoid making the film a slog and feel pointless.
Because they already did so in the first film. When Murray (Robert De Niro) criticizes everything Arthur did and debunks the notion that his hard life and mental struggles justify murdering anyone, Arthur does not have a comeback for that, he just laughs and asks if Murray wants to hear another joke, and then rants like a lunatic that Murray mocking him for his standup justifies being murdered which anyone with even half a brain cell would know is bullshit (also, Arthur is a huge fan of Murray’s show, so he knows Murray takes swings at everyone, only drawing the line at mocking genuine tragedies like deaths, cancer, etc. Yet Arthur is offended Murray mocked his standup even though Murray would have no knowledge of Arthur’s condition. When he’s brought on to the show, Arthur never once explains his mental condition, so he proceeds to judge and murder Murray over something that Murray always did and had no knowledge of why Arthur should be exempt. It shows Arthur values killing when he’s hurt rather than giving people a chance, hence his weak “everyone is awful” generalization which Murray himself says is not true).
Furthermore, when Murray brings up how somebody died just this morning (the Joker supporter who fought the two police officers, while they were pursuing Arthur, gets shot fatally), Arthur just laughs and Murray says that Arthur doesn’t care and Arthur doesn’t deny this, just admitting he’s tired of holding back killing people he thinks are awful thus ending any moral justification he might have (because by that “logic”, Thomas Wayne could be justified in killing Arthur, after all, Arthur, a total stranger, approached Bruce, a child, and touched his face, and then proceeded to assault Alfred). The fact that Arthur does not care if one of his supporters was killed shows his lack of empathy for other people’s struggles, only himself, because he’s so focused on his own struggles.
They could have reinforced this in a sequel far better without derailing the character.
Have Arthur work with but ultimately backstab Harley and his followers near the end, making most of the latter lose faith in him. Have Arthur go out swinging against the police rather than dying anticlimactically. Have Harley captured and back in Arkham saying, “Arthur wasn’t the Joker…or rather, he alone wasn’t. The Joker is an idea, a belief, and you can’t kill that so easily.” And then we see the inmate who had popped up here and there in his cell, laughing maniacally, and producing a knife to begin carving his face into that all-too-familiar smile…..
There. I just gave a basic outline to follow, at least for the climax, on how to do a sequel that only mocks the crazies who think Arthur was justified in what he did in the first film but does not mock the people who are simply fans of the character. It’s really not that difficult to pull off.
But no, the director, writers, etc. went for a film designed to appeal to basically no one who liked the first film for whatever reason.
Last edited:
Kraz
Member
I thought the movie was pretty good. And that it wasn't specifically against fans. In that sense, it seemed to be more broadly against co-opting influencers.
As someone that has been following Agatha since early development I had a pretty good idea of the level of content that was coming, like with Andor early on. That the haters trying to reflexively tear down the show were going to get streamrolled and look stupid if they tried to blindly do what they did with Acolyte. But that was only a lesson from the first trial, I hope that Disney and its showrunners are able to tell the difference in the fandom from those that helped build and shape success from those that want to take that success and use it for themselves.
Moore's story about Mrs. James Reeves helped with understanding Harley.
The film not being more explicit about what the guards did, but opening the door by removing clothes. It works to leave that question, but also as a commentary on the audience not being mature enough to handle it if shown. It made me ugly laugh at what would've been an inappropriate moment in a full theater.
As someone that has been following Agatha since early development I had a pretty good idea of the level of content that was coming, like with Andor early on. That the haters trying to reflexively tear down the show were going to get streamrolled and look stupid if they tried to blindly do what they did with Acolyte. But that was only a lesson from the first trial, I hope that Disney and its showrunners are able to tell the difference in the fandom from those that helped build and shape success from those that want to take that success and use it for themselves.
Moore's story about Mrs. James Reeves helped with understanding Harley.
The film not being more explicit about what the guards did, but opening the door by removing clothes. It works to leave that question, but also as a commentary on the audience not being mature enough to handle it if shown. It made me ugly laugh at what would've been an inappropriate moment in a full theater.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Jomer 2 at $204M total globally. US/Can domestic sales are pretty much dead going forward as it's down to around 300 theatres now. Foreign sales are better. At best, maybe it tops out at $210M if international theatres keep going a bit.
-1-Full.jpg)
www.the-numbers.com
As a comparison, Joker 1 did almost $1.1 billion. It had cleared $200M after only 1 full week of global sales.
Joker: Folie à Deux (2024) - Financial Information
Financial analysis of Joker: Folie à Deux (2024) including budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, total earnings and profitability.
www.the-numbers.com
As a comparison, Joker 1 did almost $1.1 billion. It had cleared $200M after only 1 full week of global sales.
Doom85
Member
Jomer 2 at $204M total globally. US/Can domestic sales are pretty much dead going forward as it's down to around 300 theatres now. Foreign sales are better. At best, maybe it tops out at $210M if international theatres keep going a bit.
Joker: Folie à Deux (2024) - Financial Information
Financial analysis of Joker: Folie à Deux (2024) including budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, total earnings and profitability.
As a comparison, Joker 1 did almost $1.1 billion. It had cleared $200M after only 1 full week of global sales.
Venom 3 has also already passed it by quite a bit in domestic and global despite widely being considered the weakest of the trilogy.
Ribi
Member
That's when DVD sales and streaming rights come in and it'll break evenJomer 2 at $204M total globally. US/Can domestic sales are pretty much dead going forward as it's down to around 300 theatres now. Foreign sales are better. At best, maybe it tops out at $210M if international theatres keep going a bit.
Joker: Folie à Deux (2024) - Financial Information
Financial analysis of Joker: Folie à Deux (2024) including budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, total earnings and profitability.
As a comparison, Joker 1 did almost $1.1 billion. It had cleared $200M after only 1 full week of global sales.
No one is gonna buy a DVD of this film!
The Rise, Fall, and (Slight) Rise of DVDs. A Statistical Analysis
The death and second life of physical media.
www.statsignificant.com
DVDs are basically dead except for collectors. No one is gonna digitally rent this film because that's a low, flat market as well. WB releasing it on Max won't actually generate ANY money because this film is very unlikely to drive subs.
Movies today live and DIE based on the box office. There is very little "Second life" for them because streaming is not a great source of $$$ for specific projects (though that may change if the streamer has to pay out per view to the creators or ads become more prevalent.
DKehoe
Member
Toons
Member
With Joker 2 coming to streaming soon, the recent article by Alan Moore about fan culture has some interesting relevant observations.
It has helped adjust the lens of how I'm going to approach watching the film.
The age demo connected to fan behaviors under the microscope makes the casting choice for a Joker about fan culture perfect for breaking down fanatical song and dance displays.
"
Concerning the word “fan”, I first encountered this contraction of “fanatic” during childhood, in a television documentary on the phenomenon. All I remember is the weary spouse of a woman devoted to the late Jim Reeves, sitting in a family home that had become a mausoleum of memorabilia, and mournfully accepting that his wife had only married him because his name happened to be James Reeves. Soon after that, the word passed into common usage, although only in the milder sense of somebody quite liking something, and without the connotations of a person listening to Distant Drums on endless replay with the curtains drawn, or a cultist running wild-eyed from the treeline waving a machete. “Fan”, then, meant merely “enthusiast”, but sounded less Edwardian.
...
I looked back, after an internet and some few decades, fandom was a very different animal.
An older animal for one thing, with a median age in its late 40s, fed, presumably, by a nostalgia that its energetic predecessor was too young to suffer from. And while the vulgar comic story was originally proffered solely to the working classes, soaring retail prices had precluded any audience save the more affluent; had gentrified a previously bustling and lively cultural slum neighbourhood. This boost in fandom’s age and status possibly explains its current sense of privilege, its tendency to carp and cavil rather than contribute or create. I speak only of comics fandom here, but have gained the impression that this reflexive belligerence ... is now a part of many fan communities. My 14-year-old grandson tells me older Pokémon aficionados can display the same febrile disgruntlement. Is this a case of those unwilling to outgrow childhood enthusiasms, possibly because these anchor them to happier and less complex times, who now feel they should be sole arbiters of their pursuit?
There are, of course, entirely benign fandoms, networks of cooperative individuals who quite like the same thing, can chat with others sharing the same pastime and, importantly, provide support for one another in difficult times. These healthy subcultures, however, are less likely to impact on society in the same way that the more strident and presumptuous fandoms have managed. Unnervingly rapidly, our culture has become a fan-based landscape that the rest of us are merely living in. Our entertainments may be cancelled prematurely through an adverse fan reaction...
An enthusiasm that is fertile and productive can enrich life and society, just as displacing personal frustrations into venomous tirades about your boyhood hobby can devalue them. Quite liking something is OK. You don’t need the machete or the megaphone.
"
*link
Alan Moore is smarter than most, one of the most respected authors in comics, and has experienced what he's talking about first hand.
Theres many things I disagree with him on, but this isn't one of them. When he speaks you should listen.
We are way, way too obsessed with trying to recapture a lost vestige of our collective youth rather than to build foundations that will define further youth. And that goes for far more than just comics.
And if you think he said "nothing" in that post, my most polite response would be to suggest reading the paragraphs again but with a thesaurus this time.
Last edited:
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
There are other factors than nostalgia is why most of Western Entertainment sucks nowadays.
One of my main issue with companies these days is that they are just using nostalgia to try to get back the consumer to love their product when it always feels like the product is bland and forgottable.
That's one of the many reason why I'm not a fan of alot of current year western entertainment
Recent example are Alien Romulus and Inside Out 2. I enjoyed Alien Romulus but felt like it was retrend of previous films. I was hoping for something new and fresh. Inside Out 2 was just boring and safe but totally unnecessary. I know those two movies made money for Disney but I felt that was just due to the nostalgia.
I actually really enjoyed Deadpool And Wolverine though. I thought that one was well written and funny but I don't feel I missed out by not seeing it in theaters
Hollywood is running out of ideas so they have to rely on nostalgia to sell movie tickets or just try to milk certain genres. Even movie theaters are getting hit since lot more people aren't going to the theaters. This includes me. I went to watch Longlegs in theaters, had a good time but 40 minute of previews plus other cons (Thankfully was a good crowd) prevents me to ever going back to the theater. And the last movie I saw in theaters before Longlegs? The Fabelmans in December 2022. I just prefer streaming/sailing the seven seas to going to the theater
Instead of making something original and new, nowadays Hollywood is set on milking once popular IPs. Among other things
Streaming, videogames, anime and YouTube is one of the main disruptors of the theater experience. Sorry I like to watch stuff in the privacy of my own home and I can watch it at any time
BTW I can't wait till Heretic comes to streaming
Last edited:
Toons
Member
I dont think most of western entertainment sucks. This is a problem eastern entertainment has too.
Didnt see alien. Loved IO2. It did a lot of things well.
I thought IO2 was a better movie than D and W. That movie bank a lot of nostalgia to dress up a very thin plot. It is a good movie tho, and uses hugh Jackman excellently.
I'll always back theaters. It's the best way to watch movies. I have no desire to pirate anything and never do. Streaming is fine but I wanna watch stuff on a big screen and be engulfed. No sit on my couch.
This is all true.
What Moore is getting at is about more than what Hollywood is doing tho. Hes talking about what *audiences* are doing. Audiences may give lip service to the idea they want new materials but the actual numbers show that not to be the case. Audiences are avoiding to new concepts on old ideas. When old character get reintroduced they want the media to portray them how their ten year old self would, not as actual characters prone to actual stories. They don't want the character to die. They don't want the character to lose a fight. They want something that essentially will make them feel 10 again. And I don't think that is truly possible in the way people think.
It pigeonholes the perception of the characters down to just one interpretation. Thats too restrictive for me
Kraz
Member
Bias can be shown in how easily his direct experience is dismissed because if it doesn't conform to ideals.
The unwillingness to let entertainment properties develop without obsessively losing their minds over and over again does extend to things beyond entertainment. A self-centered "mine, mine mine" and loud wailing when they don't like something. It's like a kid character in Inside Out didn't develop beyond simple responses, and that sort of thinking does go beyond comics. Complex ideas and nuance reduced to childish fantasy that hits a button. To suckle and spit up that much opinion isn't healthy, media bulimia.
Looking forward to watching IO2, the first was one of the greatest kids movies for kids made.
Agatha built new foundations to further define. Very well with the Witches' Road, Teen, and the relationship of thought and reality. Natural philosophy, chaos, and consciousness. Death and Love.
Hazbin, too.
Last edited:
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Not to the point of where Western Entertainment does it. There are other factors too but I'm not going down that road since that talk isn't allowed on here
I did enjoy Alien Romulus for the body horror. It was a good movie despite it's flaws
With Inside Out, I wasn't a fan of the first movie and I only watched the second one since I'm a big fan of teenage coming of age stories. But the sequel wasn't my thing either, it just felt too safe for me
I liked Deadpool And Wolverine way more and that's because I actually thought the jokes were funny and I'm happy that they got Cassandra Nova right and not only that they got her powerset right. She was a scary villain too. As you can tell she's one of my favourite X-Men Villain. Yes it had a thin plot but there was alot of things in that movie that was a positive to me. As for the cameos they didn't effect me at all. I knew all of them going in. You can call the movie safe but to me it wasn't. And the fact that it pissed off certain people off and still made a ton of money is good to hear
For me theaters are an outdated meduim of entertainment. The sooner they go out of business the better. I gave my laundry list of why I don't go to theaters anymore so not gonna to repeat them
I agree with Moore on that at least. It's the reason why I'm more excited for horror movies nowadays than any Superhero, Star Wars, Star Trek or any movie based off a popular IP like Dune
I agree there. That's been my issue with fanbase of certain franchises
I agree with you to a point. I don't want to watch the same thing over and over again. But something like The Acolyte shouldn't have been made. That was extremely disrespectful towards Star Wars. It's fine to try to change stuff but not to the point of how The Acolyte did it
I'll give you Agatha. I'm surprised how good that show turned out. They made a fun show and actually aimed it at the proper audience this time
Kraz
Member
The Acolyte's take on witches was so superficial too. Even compared to stuff established in Star Wars by Ahsoka. At least that show had a cool Corman horror undercurrent established and maintained from the opening crawl. Acolyte really fumbled so much in that regard, among many. How it handled character deaths compared to Agatha is another easy to see thing how one succeeded and the other failed.
Expanding the Star Wars world to include different types of force users for witch narrative isn't bad in itself, how it is done matters.
Soul migration and reincarnation opens up transhuman with the fiction of witchcraft. New territory related to consciousness that can build on Schopenhauer, from the basics taught in Inside Out. They need some type of Lethe/Mnemosyne though to smooth out attachments. Agatha did well in this regard too. Star Wars would require more world building to make it work, the world between worlds is a good step in that direction. The way the lightsabers could be heard in the waves in Ahsoka, like she'd entered a dimension within nature and become part of it. To me very SMI2LE and great tv, advanced philosophical thinking portrayed. Completely ignored by Acolyte and really could've served their story.
Agatha as a new-ish property with creative freedom, perhaps allowed by having a small detached fandom, had opportunity to serve something new and complex without being hindered by audience.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I haven't watched this yet, but I don't really understand how he supposedly "scammed" WB. Like, did they have no idea what movie he was making until it was done? Was there no producer present? They just gave him money and then didn't give a shit what he was doing with it?
Last edited:
FunkMiller
Member
The executives at WB are/were a collection of fucking morons. They have been for well over a decade now. They basically gave Phillips carte blanch to do whatever he liked, and he made that shit.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Wish they gave that to Matt Reeves instead
NeoGiffer
Member
I found it fine. It tried something different and well it worked and it didn't. Not a fan of musicals but for the most part tolerated it.
I was expecting the worst though. People moan about stale Hollywood and when something different is tried they moan about that more. Have a feeling it will have a big cult following once the hate dies down.
Would have liked to see a Batman in that universe, which it looked like it was setting up but I guess at least with this film making team that ain't happening.
I was expecting the worst though. People moan about stale Hollywood and when something different is tried they moan about that more. Have a feeling it will have a big cult following once the hate dies down.
Would have liked to see a Batman in that universe, which it looked like it was setting up but I guess at least with this film making team that ain't happening.
Oh and Burt should sue.
Last edited: