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[Angry_Megalodon]

Belonging to a cinematic universe has the advantage of starting with an established fanbase but, on the other hand, if it fucks up, it may hurt the next movies too. Batgirl was so bad that would destroy whatever DC was building.

With Joker they took the risk of the previous movie because it was an independent motive. Greenlighting the second part was an obvious decision. What they did was the worst thing possible.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Why solo Hulk movies never really work is the contradiction between Banner and Hulk. He doesn't want to be Hulk. I think Hulk is ultimately served best as a sidekick, such as he was in the Avengers and Thor movies.

A Planet Hulk and World War Hulk movie would be fucking amazing if done properly. Stop the cap.

 

[intbal]

Ang Lee Hulk is Best Hulk Film

Blasphemer!

 

[gow3isben]

I won’t ever see this movie.

But girlboss Harley will cuck him at the end won’t she?

 

[Heart_Attack]

Good. People watched and made the first Joker movie a success because they wanted to see an origin story for the Joker. Now the sequel claims he was never the Joker? So we got trolled and the first movie was a lie? Fuck Todd Phillips .

 

[Mr Reasonable]

For anyone interested in what is likey to be part of the journey that Folie a Deux went on I recommend the below podcast.

I've mentioned it before here, but the hosts are fairly unique in that they are both either very close to or are in industry (one is a tv producer with a long career who has a book currently being made into a film by Amblin, and the other is a writer whose most recent credit is HBO's The Franchise) but also seemingly are prepared to talk about the process in a way that is very matter of fact.

In this episode:



They discuss a number of things including how this film's budget got so high Vs the first film and how the film was likely to have been greenlit. Worth a listen if you're interested, there's a few things said there that go directly go against what you might assume.

 

[thefool]

How the fuck does a movie without any insane VFX or the like cost $500m to break even? Shit like this always makes me think money laundering

It's money laundering/harvesting losses for sure. Someone probably read the script and knew this would bomb like crazy.

 

[Clear]

"You see the Joker isn't a man, but an idea." read that in the joker voice.

So basically a duller re-has of Cameron Monaghan's Jeremiah arc in Gotham... whooo original.

 

[ManaByte]

Batgirl was so bad that would destroy whatever DC was building.

Zaslav didn't deleted Batgirl because it was bad, he deleted it because he was an idiot desperate to wipe out $90 billion from his books after the WB merger. It's the same reason he deleted Coyote vs ACME, which people who saw it said was the best movie of that type since Who Framed Roger Rabbit (it's about Coyote suing ACME over their defective products in court). Batgirl had Michael Keaton as Batman, JK Simmons was back as Gordon, and Brendan Fraiser was Firefly. And Simmons actually looked more like Gordon in it than he did the Snyder movies.

 

[Lord Panda]

It's the same reason he deleted Coyote vs ACME, which people who saw it said was the best movie of that type since Who Framed Roger Rabbit (it's about Coyote suing ACME over their defective products in court).

This hurts the most.

 

[SJRB]

This hurts the most.

It is still wild to me how this is a thing that can just happen.

A complete movie worked on by hundreds of people for god knows how long, test audience super positive, just thrown in the trash by some guy for accounting reasons.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

It's more surprising to me that those films have actually been erased, as in, you genuinely can't get hold of them. I can't believe nobody has a copy anywhere. Though having said that the number of people who would have had access to it could make for a fairly short list to investigate.

 

[Hookshot]

Probably turn up in 10 years or so as a special release

 

[RagnarokIV]

It is still wild to me how this is a thing that can just happen.

A complete movie worked on by hundreds of people for god knows how long, test audience super positive, just thrown in the trash by some guy for accounting reasons.

I heard that the movies need to be completely scrubbed from existence because if ever they were to show up in some form or another (even leaked) they get backdated and have to pay everything.
That's why days before scrubbing the films, they locked everyone's remote access to everything like dailies or any materials.

Only once everything is scrubbed do they tell the staff they've wasted all their time, energy and passion lol.

 

[CastorSoze]

Wasn't it Toy Story 2 that was saved after they lost it due to server issues by someone having a copy at home? Maybe someone has the Wile E movie saved.

 

[Fake]

This year got a huge competition about the worst movie ever.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

 

[FunkMiller]

Batgirl had Michael Keaton as Batman, JK Simmons was back as Gordon, and Brendan Fraiser was Firefly. And Simmons actually looked more like Gordon in it than he did the Snyder movies.

Batgirl being deleted wasn't any great loss. It was the last gasp of a failed project, featuring an old man who wasn't believable as Batman anymore. Much better to draw a line under all that bollocks and move forward with just Pattinson.

...except of course that's not what they're doing, because WB hates being sensible.

In light of Penguin's huge success and Joker 2's huge failure, I actually went back and watched Keoghan's brief turn as The Joker from The Batman, and it's grown on me. Maybe it's the comparison to the piece of shit Phillips and Phoenix have just served up, or maybe there's just enough distance from the movie coming out. But I am now looking forward to seeing what they can do with this version moving forward:



Given how Farrell's Penguin is playing down the eccentricity of that character, there's room for Joker to be much more out there, and this grotesque version might be a good balance to both Penguin and Dano's Riddler.

 

[ManaByte]

Batgirl being deleted wasn't any great loss. It was the last gasp of a failed project, featuring an old man who wasn't believable as Batman anymore. Much better to draw a line under all that bollocks and move forward with just Pattinson.

...except of course that's not what they're doing, because WB hates being sensible.

In light of Penguin's huge success and Joker 2's huge failure, I actually went back and watched Keoghan's brief turn as The Joker from The Batman, and it's grown on me. Maybe it's the comparison to the piece of shit Phillips and Phoenix have just served up, or maybe there's just enough distance from the movie coming out. But I am now looking forward to seeing what they can do with this version moving forward:



Given how Farrell's Penguin is playing down the eccentricity of that character, there's room for Joker to be much more out there, and this grotesque version might be a good balance to both Penguin and Dano's Riddler.

That version of the Joker is obviously inspired by Scott Snyders, where he cut his own face off:

 

[Toons]

Comic books have destroyed Hollywood.

Childish, inane drivel. The Batman stuff is even worse as it thinks it’s Shakespeare.

Total bollocks.

They say this about everything they gets popular.

They said it about westerns. They said if about sci fi. They said it about the eastern films that made it here.

Most of which, that have survived with age to become beloved all timers.

 

[Toons]

Zaslav didn't deleted Batgirl because it was bad, he deleted it because he was an idiot desperate to wipe out $90 billion from his books after the WB merger. It's the same reason he deleted Coyote vs ACME, which people who saw it said was the best movie of that type since Who Framed Roger Rabbit (it's about Coyote suing ACME over their defective products in court). Batgirl had Michael Keaton as Batman, JK Simmons was back as Gordon, and Brendan Fraiser was Firefly. And Simmons actually looked more like Gordon in it than he did the Snyder movies.

Which... and im giving him more grace than he deserves here, is exactly what he was hired for.

WB has been hurting financially for the better part of a decade and hes the guy you hire who won't cry about it when when you shut down the passionate team of indie artists and send them packing.

His job is to cut losses and introduce profits, not to take risks or do anything that isnt manufactured snd guaranteed to be a success.

Id imagine joker 2 is going to be a big miss on his part in that regard, because this frankly should have been a success.

I've heard things about the movie that seem on their own interesting ideas and concepts but from what I can gather, this film lacks the explosive entrance of the "joker" persona that essentially makes the first movie what it is. Whereas that movie is about a man being pushed and oppressed in every conceivable manner until he abandons all pretense of human decency, this movie, while actign as a decent conclusion to the realistic outcome of such a man, doesn't really gratify the audience hoping for that same sentiment.

Im interested to see how it will be recieved over longer periods of time with expectations settled and faded.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Heading into weekend #2. Will be interesting what the total revenue its pulled in after two weeks on Monday.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

They say this about everything they gets popular.

Nonsense. Good movies get popular and are remembered for generations, trash ones contribute to the decay of the genre and are easily forgotten. Template movies and godawful writing have destroyed the superhero genre but it was born with excellent movies like Ironman and Nolan's Batman.

Hollywood doesn't have good writers anymore and that's why they can't do nothing but stupid nostalgia bait remakes and abominable template movies (Marvel's, Fast and Furious, etc.) none of which will ever be remembered as those classics they still try to replicate without the slightest clue as to what made those movies so great.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Nonsense. Good movies get popular and are remembered for generations, trash ones contribute to the decay of the genre and are easily forgotten. Template movies and godawful writing have destroyed the superhero genre but it was born with excellent movies like Ironman and Nolan's Batman.

Hollywood doesn't have good writers anymore and that's why they can't do nothing but stupid nostalgia bait remakes and abominable template movies (Marvel's, Fast and Furious, etc.) none of which will ever be remembered as those classics they still try to replicate without the slightest clue as to what made those movies so great.

Between writing, directing and CGI effects there is no doubt in my mind most movies will pour more money and focus into CGI than good scripts and direction.

Put up trashy dialogue and predictable plots. No worries. Movie goers will forget about it with spaceships, people flying, aliens, explosions and other shit filling the screen. Dont worry. The green screen solves all.

 

[Generic]

Inside the ‘Joker: Folie à Deux’ Debacle: Todd Phillips ‘Wanted Nothing to Do’ With DC on the $200 Million Misfire

Todd Phillips “wanted nothing to do with DC” during the making of the film and refused to test screen the $200 million comic book sequel.

variety.com

Honestly this article feels like 2016 all over again, when a huge chunk of the media decided to lash on Zack Snyder because he didn't make a comic-book movie the "correct" way. Especially this part:

In fact, catering to the fanbase was supposed to be the strategy. When the Zaslav era began, the CEO touted a 10-year plan for DC that would take a page from the Marvel playbook, in which all films adhere to the singular vision of president Kevin Feige. Yet somehow the “Joker” sequel was allowed to skirt that mandate, with Phillips operating in an alternate silo from the newly installed DC chiefs. Not surprisingly, the core DC fans revolted, and the result is damage to the brand.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Not surprisingly, the core DC fans revolted, and the result is damage to the brand.

I'll always remember what my marketing prof in university said. A brand is a promise.

It's suppose to represent a certain product, image, comfort zone etc... for customers. In other worlds, once you deviate, the brand and messaging fucks up and people get pissed.

Always amazing when a brand tanks after repeated mistakes, or simply not caring (Philips doing his own thing in Joker 2 with total freedom). It's like they all need a refresher on 100 year old business textbooks.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Zaslav didn't deleted Batgirl because it was bad, he deleted it because he was an idiot desperate to wipe out $90 billion from his books after the WB merger. It's the same reason he deleted Coyote vs ACME, which people who saw it said was the best movie of that type since Who Framed Roger Rabbit (it's about Coyote suing ACME over their defective products in court). Batgirl had Michael Keaton as Batman, JK Simmons was back as Gordon, and Brendan Fraiser was Firefly. And Simmons actually looked more like Gordon in it than he did the Snyder movies.

What the fuck... they just want to see shit burn at this point, while not openly admitting it.

 

[FunkMiller]

That version of the Joker is obviously inspired by Scott Snyders, where he cut his own face off:

Actually, it's a congenital medical condition that forces Joker into a constant smile, mixed (of course) with Conrad Veidt. https://variety.com/2022/film/news/the-batman-ending-joker-barry-keoghan-matt-reeves-1235196812/

“It’s like ‘Phantom of the Opera,'” Reeves says. “He has a congenital disease where he can’t stop smiling and it’s horrific. His face is half-covered through most of the film.” While it’s barely perceptible in the movie, Marino’s makeup evoked Veidt’s, giving Keoghan an unceasing rictus grin.

“It’s not about some version where he falls into a vat of chemicals and his face is distorted, or what [Christopher] Nolan did, where there’s some mystery to how he got these scars carved into his face,” he says. “What if this guy from birth had this disease and he was cursed? He had this smile that people stared at that was grotesque and terrifying. Even as a child, people looked at him with horror, and his response was to say, ‘Okay, so a joke was played on me,’ and this was his nihilistic take on the world.”

If anything Scott Snyder's version was very much inspired by Nolan's. He's talked about it a fair bit.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I have always supported the theory that studio „meddling“ with movies is 90% of the time the right call. Here it would have also worked wonders.

 

[Toons]

Nonsense. Good movies get popular and are remembered for generations, trash ones contribute to the decay of the genre and are easily forgotten. Template movies and godawful writing have destroyed the superhero genre but it was born with excellent movies like Ironman and Nolan's Batman.

Nolans batman?? That was the 3rd or 4th batman reboot lol.

If anything the modern superhero boom owes more to spidey and the early x men moves. But really it was inevitable that superheroes would take off once movies could actually capture the visual element in a somewhat accurate manner. That was evident all the way back in 89 with the first batman movie which was a humongous success.

The superhero genre will be fine, because like the comics that source it, there is something for everyone, and plenty of variety to go around to refresh itself when the usual stuff gets stale.

You can't analyze the state of superhero media without acknowledging most of the criticisms often get said about the source material, or at least once did. It was considered and still is by many to be schlock for children, but there was always great artists behind it.

Hollywood doesn't have good writers anymore

Lol yes they do. Most people who say this couldn't name more than three film writers anyway. But no writer will never have a miss. Thats just nor how artistry works in any field.

 

[thefool]

 

[IntentionalPun]

My pants had an 80% drop over my knees just now, 8” cume total.

I remember when we used to just watch movies and not talk about their box office numbers like we have some sort of financial interest lol

It’s wild how many people are into following this shit.

 

[SJRB]

My pants had an 80% drop over my knees just now, 8” cume total.

I remember when we used to just watch movies and not talk about their box office numbers like we have some sort of financial interest lol

It’s wild how many people are into following this shit.

Okay, grampa. You often waltz into threads and tell people the thing they're discussing is retarded?

 

[FunkMiller]

My pants had an 80% drop over my knees just now, 8” cume total.

I remember when we used to just watch movies and not talk about their box office numbers like we have some sort of financial interest lol

It’s wild how many people are into following this shit.

Your last post before this one is you commenting on Ps5 Pro sales. How is that any different from talking about movie box office?

 

[FunkMiller]

In a better world this would help to kill WB, and DC could be owned by somebody who might do a better job with it.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Your last post before this one is you commenting on Ps5 Pro sales. How is that any different from talking about movie box office?

Me saying I would be surprised Xbox sold more is the same as using some dorky Box Office lingo? Lol

Stalk me harder you’ll see plenty of posts on gaming side saying people should move on when a game doesn’t do well and stop salivating over it.

If you can’t see the difference between measuring the “drop” between weekends and comparing them to other films and “oh this thing didn’t do well” not sure what to tell you.

 

[FunkMiller]

Me saying I would be surprised Xbox sold more is the same as using some dorky Box Office lingo? Lol

Stalk me harder you’ll see plenty of posts on gaming side saying people should move on when a game doesn’t do well and stop salivating over it.

If you can’t see the difference between measuring the “drop” between weekends and comparing them to other films and “oh this thing didn’t do well” not sure what to tell you.

This is a really weird hill to walk up. Discussing box office is no different to discussing games or consoles sales. Are you a big fan of this movie, and don't like it because it's doing so abysmally, and everybody else hates it?

Also, why even come into a thread titled 'Joker 2 is bombing at the box office' and complain about people talking about the box office? It's weird and passive aggressive to all hell and back.

 

[IntentionalPun]

This is a really weird hill to walk up. Discussing box office is no different to discussing games or consoles sales. Are you a big fan of this movie, and don't like it because it's doing so abysmally, and everybody else hates it?

Also, why even come into a thread titled 'Joker 2 is bombing at the box office' and complain about people talking about the box office? It's weird and passive aggressive to all hell and back.

Fair enough, sorry in a bad mood today.

 

[FunkMiller]

Fair enough, sorry in a bad mood today.

No worries. Hope the day improves for you

 

[IntentionalPun]

And your right I discuss game sales here or there.. I find something weirdly dorky about the whole lingo people use discussing movies but there are far worse things in the world than being a little dorky about a hobby lol

 

[Revolutionary]

Thanks Todd

 

[Doom85]

In a better world this would help to kill WB, and DC could be owned by somebody who might do a better job with it.

Unless you are hoping for one stop closer to a Disney monopoly (and this is coming from a Disney fan), WB dying would be terrible. And why should all those employees lose their jobs due to the choices of a few higher-ups? I would much rather those higher-ups leave the company one way or the other rather than WB dying.

Plus, I have skepticism such a transition would go smoothly. Sure, whoever bought DC would own the comic rights, so the comics side could continue as normal as well as the re-release of prior DC comics via your trades, omnibuses, etc., and future films and animation would be fine. But what happens to pre-existing DC films and animated series/films? Many of those have the Warner Bros logo on them. Are they included with the hypothetical purchase of DC or would be they considered a separate deal? I’m just scared of a wealth of DC films and animation suddenly being lost to the void if the new owner doesn’t give a shit about preserving those titles. Sure, I own a vast majority of said titles physically (I’ve got Blu-Rays of every DCEU film (save first Suicide Squad, I need to see about finding a cheap copy purely for completions sake), the first two Reeve Superman films, Nolan’s Bat trilogy, Joker 2019, The Batman, about 90% of the straight-to-video animated films, and a majority of the animated TV series), but even so, should anything happen to those copies I want digital options to exist as a backup. Granted, I know WB is hardly perfect about this (I know these examples are not DC, but cartoon fans are constantly complaining about series vanishing from Max, like Infinity Train and Over the Garden Wall), but that doesn’t mean a new owner couldn’t potentially be worse. Sometimes the grass isn’t greener on the other side.

To be clear, let’s keep the discussion, at least between us, on just that, and not our disagreement on how the new DC movie verse is being handled as I assume (and my apologies if this is not the case) that partially is what makes you wish to see DC under new owners. We’ve both made our points on said movie verse, no need for us to just repeat our prior arguments all over again.

 

[LordCBH]

I saw it reviewed poorly and remembered critics didn’t like the first one very much yet I loved the first one.

Gave the movie the benefit of the doubt and saw it. Dreadful. Damn near fell asleep during it.

 

[longrainwater]

I haven’t done much improv comedy or acting, but the one guideline I remember is “yes, and”. In other words, if you’re improvising, and the other actor suddenly says “a T-Rex bursts through the door”, you just go along with it and make it work.

The last thing you want to do is have multiple storytellers fighting one another, the audience will just disconnect.

Yet somehow that’s exactly what happened with both Joker and the Star Wars sequels. One story was set up, then immediately contradicted by the next.

Inexplicably, with Joker, it’s the same creative team contradicting itself.

 

[kindaGoth]

I was bored throughout the film and largely disappointed but I’ve been thinking about it more than the average film. Might need to see it again.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

I enjoyed the first. I went into this one skeptical but optimistic. The viewing experience was a slog.

But I haven’t stopped thinking about the film these last few days and have a desire to see it again eventually.

I was bored throughout the film and largely disappointed but I’ve been thinking about it more than the average film. Might need to see it again.

In this entire thread of takedowns, a lone post made me actually interested in seeing the movie. Until it happened again.

Now, I don’t know what to think!

 

[DKehoe]

In this entire thread of takedowns, a lone post made me actually interested in seeing the movie. Until it happened again.

Now, I don’t know what to think!

Fuck it. Go see it. At the very least you’ll have an opinion about it.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

I'm definitely going to watch it. Through multiple lenses tho. So if it's boring I hope one screening is enough but I'll see what's up when I see it.

 

[DKehoe]

Got reminded of this lol

 

[FunkMiller]

165 million after two weekends worldwide. Unlikely to hit 200 million for the entire run. 450 million minimum to break even. 250 million loss.