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JournoGAF |OT| Road to the Pulitzers

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RobCrossley

Neo Member
Think this could be a great idea, providing it develops how the OP intended. Open discussion on our collective challenges and ambitions, and how we tackle them, could be very helpful to many.

So I'm in. Rob Crossley, Associate Editor for CVG.

A relevant caveat: I'm so intensely busy I might not be able to contribute as regularly as I'd like to.
 
M

Moobabe

Member
RobCrossley said:
Think this could be a great idea, providing it develops how the OP intended. Open discussion on our collective challenges and ambitions, and how we tackle them, could be very helpful to many.

So I'm in. Rob Crossley, Associate Editor for CVG.

A relevant caveat: I'm so intensely busy I might not be able to contribute as regularly as I'd like to.
Click to expand...

As and when you can! After the introduction furor has died down I'll be posting a lot about how I'm in way over my head in a series of Alice articles I want to write
 
D

Donny

Member
I'd like to throw in a bone here. I'm no writer....

Has anyone here reviewed KZ: Shadow Fall and do you agree with the scores being published?
 
C

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
More_Badass said:
Do you guys rate games? What are your thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

I still do, though I've just been kinda weird about dropping it from the format since it was a part of the style guide when we started. I think it's a little awkward and can serve to do a disservice to a game more than anything else. I've given a few games (like most recently, Master Reboot) lower scores based on a more critical perspective but in my writing I wanted it to come through that while it is a flawed experience, it's one worth experiencing.

And as pointed out, the score can become the highlight of the review where the number is argued more than the content & opinion of the reviewer. All this does is cause silly drama and ignores any point the reviewer attempted to make.
 
O

OverBlood 3

Banned
I've been trying my hand at doing some review stuff in my spare time, hopefully it's something I can do properly one day if the gods permit. Here I've only just started so there's only 2 game related things up at the moment.
 
J

JehutyRunner

Banned
RobCrossley said:
Think this could be a great idea, providing it develops how the OP intended. Open discussion on our collective challenges and ambitions, and how we tackle them, could be very helpful to many.

So I'm in. Rob Crossley, Associate Editor for CVG.

A relevant caveat: I'm so intensely busy I might not be able to contribute as regularly as I'd like to.
Click to expand...

Crossley! \o/

Moobabe said:
Thanks for stopping by! I remember reading that piece! Soo good - that's the kind of stuff I'm most interested in - I'm not really one for "news" but I prefer the human angle to games.
Click to expand...

Dude, that has literally cheered me up a bit after a bit of a crappy day. Thanks! :)
 
M

More_Badass

Member
CheesecakeRecipe said:
I still do, though I've just been kinda weird about dropping it from the format since it was a part of the style guide when we started. I think it's a little awkward and can serve to do a disservice to a game more than anything else. I've given a few games (like most recently, Master Reboot) lower scores based on a more critical perspective but in my writing I wanted it to come through that while it is a flawed experience, it's one worth experiencing.

And as pointed out, the score can become the highlight of the review where the number is argued more than the content & opinion of the reviewer. All this does is cause silly drama and ignores any point the reviewer attempted to make.
Click to expand...
Hey, Cheesecake, are you up to 100,000 words yet? Nice to see you here, didn't know you wrote for a site.

And I agree. I feel, especially on the big sites, the scores become the focus, not the content of the reviews (OMG, Uncharted 3 got an 8! Burn him at the stake!). The content should be what matters. And don't get me started on what the superficial basis could be for an 8.2 or a 9.75.
 
P

PandaPedinte

Member
More_Badass said:
Sorry, but what's "moneyhat"? Never heard that term before
Click to expand...

In the context he posted it's could be you as writer is paid to review positively a game. This expression is more common when talking about platforms holders securing exclusive games, or paying for some studio show their game in your presentation like CProjekt with Witcher 3 in the Xbone presentation.
 
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More_Badass

Member
PandaPedinte said:
In the context he posted it's could be you as writer is paid to review positively a game. This expression is more common when talking about platforms holders securing exclusive games, or paying for some studio show their game in your presentation like CProjekt with Witcher 3 in the Xbone presentation.
Click to expand...
Oh, that. Unless we can do it through intellectual logical debate, probably should be avoided

But we're all adults here, right?
 
I

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
I'm my day job I do marketing and that includes copywriting and a lot of other media creation.

When it comes to games, I'm nothing but amateur hour, but I have been working on developing gaming content as a sideline for a while now. I run my own site, really in its infancy, here: http://www.happygamefamily.com

I got some podcasts, I got some YouTube videos, and I have some articles (mostly haiku reviews) that I used to run on bitmob.com (I miss bitmob.com) that now gather dust over at GameBeat.

Best exposure I ever got was this article:

The Death of the Video Game Expert

Kotaku pinched my infographic from it...
games_listed_by_year.png

...for their own, way more popular article:

There Are Too Many Damn Video Games

(Is this standard procedure? I got accredited and got lots of views from it, and wasn't really upset, but I was surprised.)

I recently tried for and failed to get selected for the gamerwithjobs.com call for writers, so I guess it's fair to say I labor in obscurity, but since I make a pretty good salary in my day job, I accept my fate.
 
R

RobCrossley

Neo Member
Some things I personally would find useful in this thread:

1. Discussion with PR (if there's any on here?) about best practice/challenges/opportunities/pitfalls when it comes to pitching content.
2. Discussion with aspiring journalists about the best ways to pitch, what to pitch and when
3. Discussion with gamers about the content that really matters to them, things they want to see more of etc

Maybe that's just me though.

And hey Johnny!
 
M

Moobabe

Member
RobCrossley said:
Some things I personally would find useful in this thread:

1. Discussion with PR (if there's any on here?) about best practice/challenges/opportunities/pitfalls when it comes to pitching content.
2. Discussion with aspiring journalists about the best ways to pitch, what to pitch and when
3. Discussion with gamers about the content that really matters to them, things they want to see more of etc

Maybe that's just me though.

And hey Johnny!
Click to expand...

Yeah this is the direction I wanted this to move - I'd love get involved the PR side one day! If there are any PR here then by all means speak up!
 
J

jschreier

Member
Question for the professional journalists in here: how much of your website's traffic stats do you have access to? Can you see metrics on your individual articles? Concurrents? How much time do you spend thinking about this stuff?
 
D

davewiththeid

Neo Member
I'm in -- I review games for Lee Enterprises newspapers.

My home paper is The Citizen in Auburn, N.Y., but my stuff often appears in The Wisconsin State Journal and, once in a while, The Arizona Daily Star or The St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

auburnpub.com/game_reviews

Looking forward to the discussion!
 
D

davewiththeid

Neo Member
jschreier said:
Question for the professional journalists in here: how much of your website's traffic stats do you have access to? Can you see metrics on your individual articles? Concurrents? How much time do you spend thinking about this stuff?
Click to expand...

I have an Omniture login for my pub's website, so I have access to everything. I keep pretty close tabs, mostly for SEO purposes. Always helpful to know what gets attention — especially if I'm running a review at embargo time with everyone else.
 
R

RyougaSaotome

Member
jschreier said:
Question for the professional journalists in here: how much of your website's traffic stats do you have access to? Can you see metrics on your individual articles? Concurrents? How much time do you spend thinking about this stuff?
Click to expand...

I have access to metrics for my own articles. Generally I try not to think too hard about that sort of stuff, since it can vary so wildly depending on what I'm writing about.

This is especially the case for whenever I'm doing a feature about some niche Japan-only game.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Add me to OP, OP!

Am I the only guy in print around here? :(

davewiththeid said:
I'm in -- I review games for Lee Enterprises newspapers.

My home paper is The Citizen in Auburn, N.Y., but my stuff often appears in The Wisconsin State Journal and, once in a while, The Arizona Daily Star or The St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

auburnpub.com/game_reviews

Looking forward to the discussion!
Click to expand...

Sweet.

jschreier said:
Question for the professional journalists in here: how much of your website's traffic stats do you have access to? Can you see metrics on your individual articles? Concurrents? How much time do you spend thinking about this stuff?
Click to expand...

I only have access to our site metrics for the print mags, which is pretty much useless considering we're... well, a print mag. Any content on the site is months late if it goes up at all. There's no budget for it.
 
R

RobCrossley

Neo Member
jschreier said:
Question for the professional journalists in here: how much of your website's traffic stats do you have access to? Can you see metrics on your individual articles? Concurrents? How much time do you spend thinking about this stuff?
Click to expand...

I get bulletins on those metrics every morning, and I try to get a feel for how things are going by accessing them once per day. Think it's dangerous to obsess over numbers (watching a line go up and down is stressful, ultimately, and distracting). Personally I try to avoid thinking about it, particularly when making editorial decisions, not least because getting a grip on coverage and how stories are being written is already a huge endeavor. Creating a robust news/opinion/features service is immensely challenging, so don't need the extra complications.

How does it work on Kotaku / Gawker?
 
J

joeblow

Member
How can you have the thread subtitled "Road to the Pulitzers" and then declare off-limits criticism of the very garbage that should prevent some sites and editors from earning the praise and trust they seek? Seems completely contradictory. Maybe subtitle it anything other than something that suggests honor and integrity, because faith in the games industry press is probably (and deservedly IMHO) at an all-time low.

And before someone comes up with a lame all-or-nothing defense, no, I am not talking about everyone in the press. Just that no one should get a free pass to exclusively receive pats on the back without counter-discussion allowed.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
RobCrossley said:
I get bulletins on those metrics every morning, and I try to get a feel for how things are going by accessing them once per day. Think it's dangerous to obsess over numbers (watching a line go up and down is stressful, ultimately, and distracting). Personally I try to avoid thinking about it, particularly when making editorial decisions, not least because getting a grip on coverage and how stories are being written is already a huge endeavor. Creating a robust news/opinion/features service is immensely challenging, so don't need the extra complications.

How does it work on Kotaku / Gawker?
Click to expand...
How we talking page views? I use Blogger so I can track by post, page, overall views, traffic sources
 
M

Moobabe

Member
Jintor said:
Add me to OP, OP!
Click to expand...

You're in!

joeblow said:
How can you have the thread subtitled "Road to the Pulitzers" and then declare off-limits criticism of the very garbage that should prevent some sites and editors from earning the praise and trust they seek? Seems completely contradictory. Maybe subtitle it anything other than something that suggests honor and integrity, because faith in the games industry press is probably (and deservedly IMHO) at an all-time low.

And before someone comes up with a lame all-or-nothing defense, no, I am not talking about everyone in the press. Just that no one should get a free pass to exclusively receive pats on the back.
Click to expand...

The subtitle is a joke - and this isn't a "free pass" from that sort of criticism, it's just not what I want to talk about in this thread. There's threads for you already to talk about those issues.
 
J

joeblow

Member
All threads are open for talk about the topic at hand in a variety of directions, as long as one doesn't cross a line set up by the mods.

You may as well say that a member can post a happy, happy, joy, joy thread about Killzone Shadowfall where criticism is not allowed. Or as a closer analogy, saying that forum critics should stay out of a thread dedicated to the chivalrous efforts of PR reps.

It's not possible to create a protective refuge for anything or anyone in an open forum arena. Let the chips fall as they may.
 
M

MaverickHunterAsh

Member
Neat idea for a thread. I'm in.

I've written for a few small-time sites in the past, but right now I'm the Los Angeles Console Game Examiner for Examiner.com. I know Examiner has a pretty bad rep here -- understandably so, too, since a lot of Examiner's "writers" are total garbage who don't take what they do seriously.

That doesn't extend to everyone at Examiner, though, and there's a handful of us who do take the games writing we do very seriously and try to do right by the community and ourselves. We constantly endeavor to separate ourselves from the negative reputation that the typical Examiner non-writer gives us, and I'd enthusiastically back up my own writing or that of anyone in the "handful" of games Examiners I mentioned.

I just do my games writing in my spare time, as I have two full-time jobs unrelated to game journalism that pay the bills. Examiner just gets me media credentials for trade shows, press events, and sometimes even sends me on neat press trips for coverage.

Right now I'm playing and working on reviews for Zelda: A Link Between Worlds and the 3DS version of Sonic Lost World (my review of the Wii U version went up last week).
 
D

Dougstyles

Banned
There is little that comes more naturally to me than game critique, though it took me a few years to realize that the path forward had been sitting in front of me all this time -- or rather, I had been sitting in front of it. I've been writing now for right on about 11 months, and the goal is to make my living as a game critic full-time, like everyone else I imagine. It's easy to keep my chin up with a good dose of egotism: if there are people out there right now being paid a living wage to critique video games, who the hell says I can't do that too?

I currently write for Save/Continue, though I've been on a NaNo break this month to finally beat a daily writing habit deep into my skull. Seeing as I've written nearly as many words in the last 10 days as my first 8 months, I'd say it's working.

The two reviews below I think adequately represent my current ability as a critic, and I'm quite proud of how both turned out. Please tell me if I suck ass.

Review: Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs
Review: Sweet Fuse: At My Side

More_Badass said:
Do you guys rate games? What are your thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

Everyone seems to have their knives sharpened for scores, but they've never bothered me. I've been playing games at an unhealthy rate since I was five years old, so it's very easy for me to condense my general opinion on a game down to a number. Regardless, I really don't see the Metacritic culture going anywhere anytime soon, so it's really a bothersome necessity at the absolute worst.

I suppose my point is I've never come across a game that, upon completing, took me more than a moment to score.
 
K

Kensuke

Member
Cool thread. I'm a senior editor at FOK!games (not what it sounds like in English). It's a decently sized Dutch website that covers more than just games. I'm currently also getting my masters degree in journalism.

In the past I've had a nasty experience with THQ PR over Homefront (seems like so long ago now). Our PR handled that situation like a pro though. That was definitely the worst case I've witnessed. It isn't isolated though, you can almost count on some company's PR to call us if we give a big game a low(ish) score.

One thing I've noticed is that most journalist don't finish the games they review. Even worse, they only play a fraction of the game. I've discussed this extensively with some peers in the past, but it's a non-issue for most.

jschreier said:
Question for the professional journalists in here: how much of your website's traffic stats do you have access to? Can you see metrics on your individual articles? Concurrents? How much time do you spend thinking about this stuff?
Click to expand...

On our site everyone can see the amount of views an article gets. I definitely check it out all the time to see if I can identify some trends. One of the things we discovered is that reviews for popular pc games get a ton of views. We didn't even know our audience was hungry for some pc gaming love. Ironically, most of our staff don't play pc games at all.

One funny/silly example is our review for Sega Bass Fishing for 3DS. Our reviewer knew no one would read his article. So he put a screen up on the homepage of an err.. very buxom lady with a fishing rod. Not very professional, but this review had the most views that month.
 
J

Jabba

Banned
Moobabe said:
Not EXACTLY what I had in mind - I don't really want people shouting about the current "state" of games journalism or whatever.
Click to expand...


Nice thread. Maybe you should clarify in OP, this isn't for complaining about games press in general.
 
M

MC Safety

Member
Hi, folks.

I've officially retired from game journalism but had the pleasure of working as both a staff editor/writer and freelancer for some of the best game magazines and Web sites ever:
Next-Generation, Xbox Nation, EGM, GamePro (got the cool GamePro nickname!), Daily Radar, Play, and Game Now. I also got to write game-related articles for Yahoo, Wired, and MTV.

All told, it was a great ride with a lot of excellent people. I wouldn't have traded a second of it for all the moneyhats* in the world.


*Moneyhats don't exist.
 
M

MrSerrels

Member
Hello, my name is Mark Serrels. I'm the Editor of Kotaku Australia.

I thought this was an elaborate trap, but you all seem friendly and this thread seems like it was made with good intentions!
 
D

davewiththeid

Neo Member
More_Badass said:
Do you guys rate games? What are your thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

Stopped scoring games earlier this year. Just hated it.

It's really quite liberating now. I don't have to worry about matching some number to the tone of 1,500 carefully chosen words. And no more "But is X really .7 better than Y?" nonsense.

I still do a one-sentence review for people who absolutely need the brevity, though.
 
A

apricot

Member
Debated whether I should join in but saw Ryougasaotome was here so I figured why not ;)

I run my own site, Chic Pixel, which is a mixture of games, anime/manga, and other nerdy Japanese stuff, but I definitely tend to focus on games. I was also the managing editor at Video Game Writers until very recently, but have decided I'd rather focus on other venues and am now currently freelancing while trying to finish my PhD. I contribute reviews of odd niche Japanese games to Game Critics
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Ryan_IGN said:
This feels like a NeoGAF trap :). But in case it's not...

Ryan McCaffrey, IGN
Click to expand...
Oh, look, it's that Podcast guy :p

Welcome, Ryan. Nice to see some more accomplished journalists coming out of the woodworks.
---

Oh, I'm also technically a guest author at 8BitGamer but I haven't actually written anything there yet. I've actually had three websites ask me to write for them
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Moobabe said:
It's not a trap I promise!
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I'm tempted to break out a Star Wars meme, but I won't :)

As for favorite pieces, don't really a personal favorite yet. I think my personal success would be those quotes by the developers about my blog. Maybe it's because I'm still relatively new to Twitter, but I'm still amazed that actual bonafide developers follow me and read my stuff. That probably don't phase the bigger publications, but it really means a lot to me
 
L

luffeN

Member
Hello, my name is Stefan and I have contributed to some of the "bigger" gaming sites in Austria, have had some partly successful homepages myself and am currently writing for my own page again covering Sony and the PlayStation 4.

I am currently thinking about "reviewing" exclusives and new IPs only because I don't have that much time anymore (I think) and I guess that one can go more in depth about the games. I plan on writing previews, get my hands on games during shows such as Gamescom and want to provide feedback instead of writing reviews. The feedback idea came through a didactics course for my studies. I don't want to rate the games at the end of a feedback, but I guess that those numbers are still important to the majority of the gamers.

I write in English to improve it as my second language (also studying English) and want to stream the first hour of every exclusive / new IP and try commentating. While doing so, I want to concentrate not only on the fluency of speaking, but also on the accuracy of my pronunciation and grammar. I am also a video game translator from English to German and am currently involved in a rather big MMO (NDA'd so I can't name it).

The only articles I currently have are from Game City 2013 and an AC IV: Black Flag hands on.

Nice to meet everyone!

Edit: I am currently the only active member, so if anyone wants to get in on the fun, just write me a PM.
 
R

Ravensmash

Member
Wow, quite a few on GAF - nice idea for a thread.

I need to set up a personal site again, and get back into writing reviews. I did have a poorly made site/blog which had a good amount of writing samples on, but that ended up becoming inaccessible. Since then I haven't really bothered, which is a shame because it was absolutely something I was very interested in (to the point where I'd love to try and freelance or attempt to get more traffic).

That being said, any of the professionals here on GAF have any decent advice?

What's the best way to get your content out there to a wider audience? Sites like N4G? It's fairly disheartening to spend a fair time on an article (be it a review or just a well argued rant) to realise that you'd be lucky if two people read it.
 
E

excaliburps

Press - MP1st.com
jschreier said:
Question for the professional journalists in here: how much of your website's traffic stats do you have access to? Can you see metrics on your individual articles? Concurrents? How much time do you spend thinking about this stuff?
Click to expand...

I have access to pretty much almost every stat, I think. I can see how many views each article gets per day, from which referrer, etc.

And to answer the last question, CONSTANTLY! I mean, we're nowhere near Kotaku with eleventy million hits per month and has Professor X manning the fort (Totilo). XD
 
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