Apart from women and Afghan informants, sure.
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Julian Assange is going to leave the Ecuador embassy
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Apart from women and Afghan informants, sure.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Do you know he even did it? You seem mighty sure he's guilty, do you have some information we don't? It's not out of the realm of possibility that it's all bullshit to get him sent back to the US.
CyclopsRock
Member
Don't worry, the Metropolitan Police have set up a trap to get him:
The women didn't call it rape. Not until several days after the fact did they make any fuss at all, during this time everyone seemed to be going along fine. But then they found out about him sleeping around and were concerned with possible STDs.
Here is a run-down of why the acts that Assange allegedly committed is considered rape
Oh sorry, probably should've put an "alledgedly" in there somewhere.
But it is out of the realm of possibility or him to be sent to the US from Sweden, firstly no request for extradition has been made. Secondly, such a request would have been easier to make in the UK since they have more lax rules when dealing with extraditions to the US.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
The woman described herself as half-asleep. Which means conscious, and she never said she didn't agree to the sex, only that she did so when she was half-asleep. Having sex with someone when they're asleep is black-and-white, indisputably, rape. Conscious but tired is grey at absolutely worst.
From the article you posted "She had awoken to find him having sex with her, she said, but when she asked whether he was wearing a condom he said no."
"The police record of the interview with Assange in Stockhom deals only with the complaint made by Miss A. However, Assange and his lawyers have repeatedly stressed that he denies any kind of wrongdoing in relation to Miss W.
In submissions to the Swedish courts, they have argued that Miss W took the initiative in contacting Assange, that on her own account she willingly engaged in sexual activity in a cinema and voluntarily took him to her flat where, she agrees, they had consensual sex. They say that she never indicated to Assange that she did not want to have sex with him. They also say that in a text message to a friend, she never suggested she had been raped and claimed only to have been "half asleep"."
She (Miss W) did not say that, Assange's attorneys claim that Miss W said that to a friend in a text message.
TyrantGuardian
Member
Considering how ridiculously hard it is to sentence men in Sweden based on rape charges (and we're talking violent 100% undisputable non-consensual rape) it's mighty interesting how this case would probably end up with him being found guilty and quite possibly being extradited to face completely unrelated charges. Obviously just speculation, but I wouldn't exactly be shocked if that's exactly what would happen.
I mean, I really don't want to come across as any sort of rape apologist, fuck that, but I also can't shake the feeling that they're just trying to pin him on a technicality due to his political actions.
I'm very curious as to how he intends to leave, and how he plans on evading the police if he does. Or maybe he's ready to stand trial with hopes of winning? I wonder...
I mean, I really don't want to come across as any sort of rape apologist, fuck that, but I also can't shake the feeling that they're just trying to pin him on a technicality due to his political actions.
I'm very curious as to how he intends to leave, and how he plans on evading the police if he does. Or maybe he's ready to stand trial with hopes of winning? I wonder...
benjipwns
Banned
must...resist...but adherence to principles too...strong...Don't worry, the Metropolitan Police have set up a trap to get him:
afternoon delight
Member
Gonna get Jack Ruby'd.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
You're right. I guess time will tell whether the message exists or not. Even if it does, it doesn't prove Assange's innocence, but it definitely wouldn't hurt.
Coriolanus
Banned
Other way around.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
What is?
How is any of this an argument against him submitting for questioning? Swedish conviction rates are obviously not going to improve if the justice system starts sending signals that if you're just rich and famous enough or have "friends" who are powerful enough then you're free to do what you want with Swedish women. All of this has been a farce since day one and the blame lies squarely with Assange, Equador and liberal celebrities like Michael Moore who are apparently perfectly fine with someone evading a rape charge as long as they fight the good fight.
Hell, if what Assange and his lawyers say about the actual charges is true he could very well be found innocent or at least given a light sentence. Not that it would matter at this point. Because of his actions in Britain he's a wanted fugitive there now and will have to stand trial in a UK court and almost certainly serve time for skipping bail.
As unfortunate and disgusting as it sounds and looks, the whole rape thing would be taking a backseat. The US is going to have him one way or the other and he's going to die in prison. It's just a matter of how long it would take for him to be put on a military flight to the US.
Same awaits Edward if he ever decides to get our of Russia for being home sick or missing his family in a few years from now. Both of both of these men are screwed and will never get a fair trial.
Same awaits Edward if he ever decides to get our of Russia for being home sick or missing his family in a few years from now. Both of both of these men are screwed and will never get a fair trial.
Pretty much.
If Assange ends up in Sweden this is the likely scenario:
Questioning->Arrest->Charged (You can't get charged before you're arrested)->Tingsrätt (district court), outcome doesn't matter since it will be appealed->Hovrätt (royal court), where he'll likely be freed. And that's it really, can't see this going this going to Högsta domstolen (Supreme court).
Or if you're so inclined:
Questioning by feminazi-activist-prosecutor->arrested by fascist police->charged by satan-> convicted by bought off judge -> extradited by lizardpeople -> executed by AmeriKKKa.
Coriolanus
Banned
Doesn't need to prove his innocence, just cast doubt on his guilt.
Not purely, no. Regardless of whatever he may have done, the way Sweden acted in this case was... unusual.
Political suicide for whatever party is in power if that happens. In Sweden, obv.
Nexus Zero
Member
Innocent until proven guilty. The onus is on them to prove that he is guilty
Dunno, same reason he fled Sweden before the scheduled interview and why he skipped bail in the UK? His behaviour regarding this matter has been far from spotless.
For the second part, yes and no. He has a (somewhat) rational fear of the US, but Sweden is one of the least likely countries to extradite someone to the US.
Yet again the US get mixed up into this, what evidence is there that he would be extradited?
Unusual how? And as I stated above, fleeing before an interview and skipping bail is also not usual behaviour on Assange's behalf.
There's no doubt in my mind that Assange genuinely thinks the US is out to get him and that the charges in Sweden are a trap. He had been showing signs of growing paranoia for years before the incidents. That he doesn't accept that he's done anything wrong isn't surprising either, even if the charges are true Assange doesn't strike me as a man who would realise his own guilt.
None of this matters either way. Paranoia and conspiracy theories are not a shield against prosecution. The charges against him has to be dealt with through the rule of law as it would have been from the beginning if Assange hadn't decided to turn this into a shitty spy novel.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
I thought the reptilian bloodline only ran through the British royal family.
Coriolanus
Banned
Hey now, we've been through this, the UK need to consent to any extradition. How else will glorious reptillian overlord Queenie EII earn her upkeep?
Already responded to this earlier, the investigation was reopened on the behest of one of the women's attorney. Nothing unusual about that.
Of course not, wasn't my intention to imply that.
Not sure I recall this correctly, but he didn't really "flee the country", iirc, he had already left Sweden before the was "häktad".
What a waste of public resources.
he never raped anyone lol. if you are going to try and be funnt at least look up what the charges are.
It was a crappy charge for not wearing a condom and other questionable things, not rape. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden
the last bit is the most interesting
King Mystery
Member
It's probably a ploy. He's going to have someone to dress up, complete with one of those "Mission Impossible"-esque facial masks, to look exactly like him. After they take the clone to the hospital, the real Assange will sneak out later when the embassy is no longer being watched.
It's taken him two years to put this plan in motion because the dude he hired for the job asked to be paid $5,000 in Bitcoins upfront and the only computer he had to mine them with was a mid-2000s era ThinkPad.
It's taken him two years to put this plan in motion because the dude he hired for the job asked to be paid $5,000 in Bitcoins upfront and the only computer he had to mine them with was a mid-2000s era ThinkPad.
No, he fled the same day his attorneys were informed of his impeding arrest. So yes he was out of the country, but he didn't just leave for no particular reason he fled to avoid his arrest.
One of the charges is rape. So I would recommend that you look up the charges yourself.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I really doubt he would ever have been found guilty in the first place, but I guess paranoia can drive a man to do the zaniest shit. Though at the time his paranoia might have been well-founded since the USA as a whole was kinda calling for his head.
Yeah I'm sure the law will be just and fair when he shows up in Sweden...
what you posted isn't true.. read the article i posted in the post you quoted
he also didnt flee because he was about to be arrested, he was only wanted for questioning. yeah, he had no intentions to do any questioning but he wasn't going to be arrested.
from the article i linked
I fully expect that is what is going to happen. What he did to himself is worse then being locked up by cabal. Credibility shot, bridges burned, out of favors and friends, and a terrible movie based on him.
His spokesperson is playing this down.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...eave-london-embassy-if-siege-lifted-1.1900360
That seems rather unlikely to happen...
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...eave-london-embassy-if-siege-lifted-1.1900360
That seems rather unlikely to happen...
What part isn't true? (Admittedly I screwed up the timeline a bit, five days before he fled his attorney were informed of the impending arrest). Note: Questioning in this instance is "förhör", more akin to interrogation. After this he would be arrested, it's not just answering questions but the final step before prosecution.
"Following this interview, the Swedish prosecutor decided to proceed with the investigation. On 22 September 2010, messages were left with Assange’s lawyer saying that Assange was now required for “interrogation”, the second stage interview before a prosecution.
(Assange’s Swedish lawyer was later to falsely maintain that the prosecutor had not tried to contact him. When this was exposed as incorrect, he then claimed that he was not able to pass the messages on to his client.)
On or about 27 September 2010, Assange left Sweden for England. It is not clear whether Assange was aware of the request for interrogation. However, his Swedish lawyer confirmed that Assange could return in October 2010. This offer is declined by the prosecutor, as Assange was then required sooner."
Source
And I've linked this once, now again: Here is a run-down of the rape charge against Assange
The condom part is not the rape charge, he is wanted for one count of rape, one count of unlawful coercion and two counts of "sexuellt ofredande" (roughly translated to sexual assault).
The girl - Sofia Wilen - claimed she was "half-asleep" when he entered her. But that was only a few minutes after they had had fully consensual sex. To call that "abusing a helpless condition" is stretching the Swedish rape legislation beyond belief.
edit: the "sexual assault" is from the broken condom. The other girl, Anna Ardin, submitted the torn condom as evidence. However - forensics later showed that the condom in question was never used. Submitting fake evidence kinda shatters your credibility, don't you think?
And it's funny how she tweeted how awesome everything was, going to parties with Julian Assange. Until she found out that he had been sleeping with Sofia for two days in between.
I really don't see how they have a case. Unless JA confesses to rape. That seems unlikely.
To quote my self:
She hasn't said that she was half-asleep, Assange's attorneys claim that she wrote that in a text (and if that's true, it's not conclusive evidence of anything unfortunately). Where did you find the claim about minutes later?
Also you could add UK rape law to that list, two Swedish courts and a UK one have found that the claim constitutes rape. I can't see how taking advantage of someone who is asleep is not considered rape, since that is what the accusation is.
The rape claim isn't really Sofias claim. She left the police station when she found out that JA had been arrested in absentia for rape. She refused to sign the statement the police prepared for her (it was never recorded, it was a "conceptual interview" where the police writes down his or her opinion of what the alleged victim has said). It's unclear if she wants to participate in the investigation further.
We never know if Sofia claimed asleep or half asleep. We know it was minutes because that's what people say who has read the police interpretation of Sofias statement.
edit: and yeah, Eva Finne dropped the charges immediately. She would never ever have done that if there was an actual accusation of rape. That's not how it works in Sweden, she'd be crucified if she did. Why Marianne Ny reopened it we'll never know, but there's an agenda there somewhere.
Sources, please?
This doesn't match any timeline I've seen, the complaints were brought forward in August, the warrant for Assange was issued in November.
Also Assange have never been arrested in absentia or otherwise, to be arrested he needs to be "förhörd" (questioned/interrogated).
Edit:
Huh? The rape accusation is with regards to miss W, the case was reopened on the request of the attorney of the women.
It was reopened at the request of the lawyer. The process for that is explicitly outlined in the Swedish justice system and there is nothing odd or unprecedented about it.
As the poster you're responding to explained, the claims were examined by the courts in the UK and were, multiple times by multiple courts and judges, deemed to also constitute crimes in that jurisdiction.
He was "anhållen i sin frånvaro" during the interview, i can't translate that better than how i did. Sofia didn't like that one bit, and the part where she refused to sign it is in the statement that is available on the internet.
This was the first time, before the regular prosecutor - Eva Finne - came back from vacation and immediately dropped the case.
did you read the link i posted at all?
Bluemercury
Member
Also very convenient the timing of this alleged rape...
Could you pretty please link your sources for this? You have mostly correct info but scrambled it up in the wrong order as far as I can see (or perhaps we are just talking past each other)
No, Marianne Ny reopened the case on the behest of Claes Borgström the attorney of the women.
Yes, and it doesn't contradict what I'm saying, you're fundamentally not understanding the Swedish judiciary system.
He IS wanted for rape, I haven't made a judgement as far as to whether this is true or not, but that is one of the charges he is wanted for.
Questioning is a poor translation, he was due for "förhör" which is the final step before prosecution. After the "förhör" he would be arrested, charged with the crimes and placed in "häkte" (jail I guess?). So no he wasn't "only wanted for questioning" he was wanted for arrest, but arrest in Sweden is preceded by "förhör", which has been mistranslated as questioning.
Yep. There's at least 3 Scotland Yard officers stood outside the embassy waiting to arrest him 24 hours a day 365 days a year at a cost to the tax payer of at least £11,000 a day. It's crazy how the UK gov is acting like he's Britain's most wanted fugitive.
I bet if they hadn't had police waiting outside he would have come out long before now, and then they could have tracked him down and arrested him like they do every person who has an arrest warrant on them.
And further in order to qualify for extradition a person must essentially be wanted for a crime, and through multiple courts the UK has concluded that despite the differences in judicial procedure Julian Assange meets that requirement. In fact the laws specifically prohibit extradition for merely the purpose of questioning, so the claim he is only wanted for this reason is extremely misleading.
What did he do that makes him a shitty person?
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