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[Angry Grimace]

I think when people say that all NJPW fans care about is workrate is wrong. The story telling happens in the ring but it is still story telling and can be one of the most compelling things about the way NJPW is presented.

That's just admitting it but calling it something else.

I'm not bagging on people for liking it. I'm just never going to care about a product that builds itself almost entirely on the quality of the fake fighting.

I also think it's just wrong to say any wrestling promotion can build like real sports. Because it's fake. I don't need a storyline in a UFC fight because they're actually fighting.

 

[Heroman]

NJPW has tons of story like most major Wrestling promotions

 

[excelsiorlef]

NJPW has tons of story like most major Wrestling promotions

Yes but how they tell it and what they tell are very different

 

[Oersted]

I watched WWE for the wellwritten dialogue

 

[Heroman]

That's just admitting it but calling it something else.

I'm not bagging on people for liking it. I'm just never going to care about a product that builds itself almost entirely on the quality of the fake fighting.

I also think it's just wrong to say any wrestling promotion can build like real sports. Because it's fake. I don't need a storyline in a UFC fight because they're actually fighting.

But it njpw is built off of storylines, like the biggest matches njpw has been built off of storys. There are plenty of stories in NJPW and really not that hard to see.

Also storylines are huge in MMA, I mean Jones vs Cormier isn't going to be the biggest UFC fight of the year biggest they are two good fighters.

 

[FlammableD]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFbvzoRWAAAtP_f.jpg:large[/IMG]

 

[Foggy]

padron,clothesline.

i'm not doubting that the move is popular..but given how much punishment those guys take in a match i find hard to believe that a guy like okada (which is muscular,but not big by wrestlers' standards) can KO a guy with a lariat..and that's without counting the fact that i don't think the little spin would actually add any kind of impact to the move if done in real life.

i know it's wrestling and you are supposed to accept someone's finisher as someone more deadly than normal..but since the guy is talented, they could have given him a more flashy finisher that doesn't rely on blunt force..i mean doesn't he also do a tombstone piledriver (saw 2 matches of the guy,and was an "almost finisher" in both so i suppose it's part of his moveset)? that's one attack that can finish a fight without destroying my suspension of disbelief

Dude, the Styles Clash is holding a guy upside down for a second and slamming him on his face from 2 inches above the ground. Wrestling's fake.

 

[Egg0]

Holy cow that Ibushi/Ishii match was stiff as fuck. I love it.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

How much empty rows of seats will be visible at Battleground

 

[Angry Grimace]

But it njpw is built off of storylines, like the biggest matches njpw has been built off of storys. There are plenty of stories in NJPW and really not that hard to see.

Whether that is true or not (and it's hard to say since you constantly make things up about NJPW), it doesn't really matter since I don't speak Japanese.

 

[Beefy]

Just back from seeing Dunkirk, dope film

Whether that is true or not (and it's hard to say since you constantly make things up about NJPW), it doesn't really matter since I don't speak Japanese.

Dammmmmnnn

 

[Foggy]

You only have to look as far back as Takahashi and Kushida's rivalry as a crystallization of what storytelling can be and how it can work brilliantly. I hate to invoke Dark Souls, but just because a story is obtuse doesn't mean it's not there or can't be captivating.

You don't need a dude getting hit in the head with a coconut or a god-forsaken Limp Bizkit promo package to tell a story. You can, but you certainly don't need it.

 

[Heroman]

Whether that is true or not (and it's hard to say since you constantly make things up about NJPW), it doesn't really matter since I don't speak Japanese.

If you can't understand the Natio vs Tanahashi storyline or other njpw storylines then I don't know what to tell you cause it ain't rocket surgery.

Also this great coming from a guy who just saif NJPW doesn't have storylinee.

 

[Foggy]

Whether that is true or not (and it's hard to say since you constantly make things up about NJPW), it doesn't really matter since I don't speak Japanese.

It's going to come as a disappointing surprise to a lot of people that promos in NJPW are largely not illustrative of much. Once you've seen one, you've seen most. There's a reason there's a website dedicated to translating Dragon Gate promos and not NJPW, and it's not due to a lack of passionate fans.

Frankly, you don't need to speak Japanese to understand the stories.

 

[Nocturnowl]

How much empty rows of seats will be visible at Battleground

The E will shuffle all the folks around to fill everything from the hard cam and rarely deviate to dynamic camera shots or anything to reveal the diminishing returns from their PPV excess and ho-hum booking.

 

[Beefy]

I like NJPW, but if they want to crack America and want a bigger fan base, asking them to have English speaking commentators isn't asking much. Their website is a piece of shit translation wise as well.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If you can't understand the Natio vs Tanahashi storyline or other njpw storylines then I don't know what to tell you cause it ain't rocket surgery.

Also this great coming from a guy who just saif NJPW doesn't have storylinee.

Where did I say that?

 

[Heroman]

That's just admitting it but calling it something else.

I'm not bagging on people for liking it. I'm just never going to care about a product that builds itself almost entirely on the quality of the fake fighting.

I also think it's just wrong to say any wrestling promotion can build like real sports. Because it's fake. I don't need a storyline in a UFC fight because they're actually fighting.

Where did I say that?

.

 

[Angry Grimace]

.

That is not what that quote says and for extra fun you're taking the quote out of context because its in response to someone else specifically saying that the storylines happen in the ring.

Basically you're just making stuff up about NJPW. Again.

 

[Hasney]

I like NJPW, but if they want to crack America and want a bigger fan base, asking them to have English speaking commentators isn't asking much. Their website is a piece of shit translation wise as well.

I don't even watch with English commentary unless it's to sync with New Legacy but yeah, was just thinking that as I started watching todays show. If Kevin Kelly has quit ROH to do more ROH, he should be doing the whole competition.

 

[Foggy]

I like NJPW, but if they want to crack America and want a bigger fan base, asking them to have English speaking commentators isn't asking much. Their website is a piece of shit translation wise as well.

There's reason to believe that their "crack" is going to be done organically as a natural outgrowth from a US based dojo and presumably a US based promotion periodically bolstered by guest talent. Which means, as much as it pains people to wait, that it's going to take a while for something to materialize.

And yes despite their success, they're only just recently profitable. It is a lot to ask to have a revamped Western-centric website and fly in two North American guys for every show. It's a slow growth.

 

[Heroman]

That is not what that quote says and for extra fun you're taking the quote out of context because its in response to someone else specifically saying that the storylines happen in the ring.

Basically you're just making stuff up about NJPW. Again.

I am ? Tell me what am I making up right? I am all ears.

 

[Angry Grimace]

There's reason to believe that their "crack" is going to be done organically as a natural outgrowth from a US based dojo and presumably a US based promotion periodically bolstered by guest talent. Which means, as much as it pains people to wait, that it's going to take a while for something to materialize.

And yes despite their success, they're only just recently profitable. It is a lot to ask to have a revamped Western-centric website and fly in two North American guys for every show. It's a slow growth.

They're not regularly selling out in Japan, so I don't know how it makes sense to try and move into a territory occupied by a company you don't have the resources to compete with.

I am ? Tell me what am I making up right? I am all ears.

That quote does not say "NJPW does not have storylines." It's not a big request to ask you to stop making up facts and expecting people to argue with you as though they are true.

 

[Beefy]

There's reason to believe that their "crack" is going to be done organically as a natural outgrowth from a US based dojo and presumably a US based promotion periodically bolstered by guest talent. Which means, as much as it pains people to wait, that it's going to take a while for something to materialize.

And yes despite their success, they're only just recently profitable. It is a lot to ask to have a revamped Western-centric website and fly in two North American guys for every show. It's a slow growth.

I don't see it as a lot to ask at all. Specially the website part.

 

[Hasney]

They're not regularly selling out in Japan, so I don't know how it makes sense to try and move into a territory occupied by a company you don't have the resources to compete with.

They're not trying to compete. They're trying to grow their niche and make money.

With the quality of NJPW, there's no reason they can't be a solid #2 worldwide. And that's just fine.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I like NJPW, but if they want to crack America and want a bigger fan base, asking them to have English speaking commentators isn't asking much. Their website is a piece of shit translation wise as well.

It's very bad.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Just because NJPW doesn't smack you in the face every event with a 15 minute promo and announcers constantly telling you a story doesn't mean one isn't going on. I don't even follow NJPW as much as others in here, but when Naito and Tanahashi stepped into the ring at Dominion you could just feel it. I was watching with Japanese commentary but the way both guys stood there and looked at each other you could just sense it.

I've come to really enjoy the real life feel to NJPW and how it feels less like Sports Entertainment than WWE.

I'm not trying to stand here and say WWE is trash, but it's entirely different methods of story telling.

I like NJPW, but if they want to crack America and want a bigger fan base, asking them to have English speaking commentators isn't asking much. Their website is a piece of shit translation wise as well.

www.njpw1972.com is their English site, granted it doesn't have direct access into NJPW World but it's something.

 

[Menome]

I am ? Tell me what am I making up right? I am all ears.

Angry Grimace is saying that NJPW sells itself by virtue of in-ring workrate. In-ring workrate comes first, story comes second. Not that story isn't there at all.

 

[Foggy]

I don't see it as a lot to ask at all.

Sinking a lot of resources into an unproven market all at once certainly is riskier than you want to believe. How much exactly do you think this all costs. Major web development is very expensive. So is major app development. Easily 6 figures on each project if done professionally. That doesn't even account for ongoing maintenance. In a language and market you don't have an intimate familiarity with. So then you hire people to accommodate a multicultural infrastructure. This isn't chump change.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

That's just admitting it but calling it something else.

I'm not bagging on people for liking it. I'm just never going to care about a product that builds itself almost entirely on the quality of the fake fighting.

I also think it's just wrong to say any wrestling promotion can build like real sports. Because it's fake. I don't need a storyline in a UFC fight because they're actually fighting.

UFC buyrates are determined by stories and the people involved. But that is besides the point.

What I am saying is the story telling is done inside the ring. It doesnt matter if it is fake or not. When you look at the Okada and Tanahashi WK series over the last few years. How ewch match they interacted differently based on what happened in previous matches. Things like that. Even Okada and Omega this year has tremendous storytelling. How protected a finisher is plays into it too. Maybe someone is beaten down after many hard matches and people take advantage of injuries or whatever.

This makes the emotions involved in each match much greater to me. You see how everything that happened in each match impacted on what we are seeing now and it gets you invested in what you are actually watching.

Again. It doesnt matter if it is fake or not. The mediocre soap drama in WWE outside the ring is fake too but thats cool. It just gets tiring when people ignore the significant story telling in NJPW because they are accustomed to other stuff.

 

[Mahonay]

Almost done with Day 3. That Ibushi vs Zach Sabre Jr. match was the hotness.

 

[Beefy]

Just because NJPW doesn't smack you in the face every event with a 15 minute promo and announcers constantly telling you a story doesn't mean one isn't going on. I don't even follow NJPW as much as others in here, but when Naito and Tanahashi stepped into the ring at Dominion you could just feel it. I was watching with Japanese commentary but the way both guys stood there and looked at each other you could just sense it.

I've come to really enjoy the real life feel to NJPW and how it feels less like Sports Entertainment than WWE.

I'm not trying to stand here and say WWE is trash, but it's entirely different methods of story telling.



www.njpw1972.com is their English site, granted it doesn't have direct access into NJPW World but it's something.

It's basically nothing. Until I don't have to translate the emails I get for subscribing I will say they need to step up their game. They are the ones wanting to get more customers. So need to splash the cash to do so.

 

[Angry Grimace]

UFC buyrates are determined by stories and the people involved. But that is besides the point.

What I am saying is the story telling is done inside the ring. It doesnt matter if it is fake or not. When you look at the Okada and Tanahashi WK series over the last few years. How ewch match they interacted differently based on what happened in previous matches. Things like that. Even Okada and Omega this year has tremendous storytelling. How protected a finisher is plays into it too. Maybe someone is beaten down after many hard matches and people take advantage of injuries or whatever.

This makes the emotions involved in each match much greater to me. You see how everything that happened in each match impacted on what we are seeing now and it gets you invested in what you are actually watching.

Again. It doesnt matter if it is fake or not. The mediocre soap drama in WWE outside the ring is fake too but thats cool. It just gets tiring when people ignore the significant story telling in NJPW because they are accustomed to other stuff.

Right. It's fine to like that type of storytelling. I'm just telling you why, from the perspective of a person that doesn't care at all about NJPW, why having higher match quality isn't enough of a selling point for me.

Purely speculative but I'm guessing the vast majority of wrestling fans probably agree with me. It doesn't help that a lot of NJPW fans are openly antagonistic about how much better their preferred product is when that assertion largely ignores the competing interests.

 

[Anth0ny]

New Japan makes up for the lack of promos with far and away the best in ring wrestling in the world AND the best in ring storytelling and psychology.


However... I'd be lying if I said I didn't want someone who talked like THIS cutting promos and selling the importance of an upcoming match.

I bet as they continue to penetrate the western market, they'll start to focus more and more on promo ability. No need to go overboard, CERTAINLY no need to do any soap opera WWE shit, but just an interview segment or two the night of the show to really push the importance of the main event would be great, I think.

 

[Foggy]

They're not regularly selling out in Japan, so I don't know how it makes sense to try and move into a territory occupied by a company you don't have the resources to compete with.

The initial goal isn't to compete, the initial goal is the same as any independent promotion and that's to make money and develop talent. And it slowly builds until you have to dip into a Japanese billionare's pocket. This is going to be long drawn out process, this isn't a console war.

 

[Hasney]

Right. It's fine to like that type of storytelling. I'm just telling you why, from the perspective of a person that doesn't care at all about NJPW, why having higher match quality isn't enough of a selling point for me.

Purely speculative but I'm guessing the vast majority of wrestling fans probably agree with me.

The problem is that no nationally broadcasted wrestling company has any compelling stories at the moment. If that was a requirement, I just wouldn't watch wrestling right now.

You might be right, but right now, WWE doesn't succeed in any area at all bar the occasionaly big match. So even if it is a minority that wants the in-ring action, they'll want an alternative while people who want a fighting soap opera go unserved.

 

[Majukun]

Dude, the Styles Clash is holding a guy upside down for a second and slamming him on his face from 2 inches above the ground. Wrestling's fake.

the styles clash if taken as "real life" would suggest can break your neck
of course there's a pretty easy way to avoid damage,but it's enough to keep the suspension of disbelief intact...

anywya,nevermind,seems like i'm the only one with a problem with the rainmaker,so obviously i'm wrong

 

[Heroman]

They're not regularly selling out in Japan, so I don't know how it makes sense to try and move into a territory occupied by a company you don't have the resources to compete with.


That quote does not say "NJPW does not have storylines." It's not a big request to ask you to stop making up facts and expecting people to argue with you as though they are true.

Making up facts ? Get out of here with that and maybe if you make a clearer post then I would understand you better.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The problem is that no nationally broadcasted wrestling company has any compelling stories at the moment. If that was a requirement, I just wouldn't watch wrestling right now.

You might be right, but right now, WWE doesn't succeed in any area at all bar the occasionaly big match. So even if it is a minority that wants the in-ring action, they'll want an alternative while people who want a fighting soap opera go unserved.

I would say they entertain me at least once per show.

 

[Menome]

I also started watching wrestling because of the weird & wonderful soap-opera nature of WWE & WCW. I'd catch parts of both when my old flatmate was watching the Network on the TV in the living room, or when some compilation videos turned up on Youtube.

The thing that clinched it for me was a Simon Miller video on the most ridiculous storylines in wrestling, which had stuff like Boss Man driving off with Big Show's father's coffin. I wanted to see more stuff like that, and when I first sat down and watched wrestling with Wrestlemania 31, it delivered with that over-the-top Sting vs Triple-HHH match, or Rusev coming to the ring in a tank.

Essentially, I'm here for comic-book characters in a soap opera where they beat each other up to resolve disputes.

I can still appreciate a good match and a great match will keep my eyes glued to it the whole time (Example: Dunne vs Bate earlier this year), but I also don't really notice the bad ones or minor botches unless they're really bad like that TNA women's match that got ridiculed last year.

In-ring is secondary to me, and that's why I don't bother with NJPW beyond the recommended matches that get linked to or raved about on here.

 

[Anth0ny]

The initial goal isn't to compete, the initial goal is the same as any independent promotion and that's to make money and develop talent. And it slowly builds until you have to dip into a Japanese billionare's pocket. This is going to be long drawn out process, this isn't a console war.

Mark Cuban owns Axs TV and regularly pushes NJPW on his twitter.


He's going to be Turner 2.0 when the time is right.

 

[Brian_FETO]

Watching Progress

"Man Jimmy Havoc is so good"

"He calls this sleeper hold the Suicide Silence"

"Nevermind"

 

[Beefy]

WWE: shit wrestling atm, but the promotion etc is at a very good standard
NJPW: Great wrestling, but everything else is lacking

 

[HashtagLapsed]

Right. It's fine to like that type of storytelling. I'm just telling you why, from the perspective of a person that doesn't care at all about NJPW, why having higher match quality isn't enough of a selling point for me.

Purely speculative but I'm guessing the vast majority of wrestling fans probably agree with me. It doesn't help that a lot of NJPW fans are openly antagonistic about how much better their preferred product is when that assertion largely ignores the competing interests.

I am saying that saying people only liking NJPW for workrate is not being fair. The match quality is much higher but if you read the Dominion show thread when Omega vs Okada happens and see how peoples reactions are, it isnt JUST because of workrate. It is because there IS story telling, characters people care about etc. It isnt JUST march quality. That is what I am trying to say.

On another note, sounds like some brutal shit just went down in the joshi scene involving Kagetsu and a potential stabbing. Fucking christ.

 

[Kymbo]

Long time lurker here...

I just wanted to thank you guys for putting me onto NJPW, I've cancelled my WWE Sub and subbed to NJPW after watching a few matches on Dailymotion.

Jesus Christ this G1 tournament is incredible, just catching up ( finished yesterday's matches ) but so far this tournament in a few days has given me 10x more entertaining matches than the WWE has given me in years.

So thanks again guys, time for me to go back to lurking.

 

[Brian_FETO]

WWE: shit wrestling atm, but the promotion etc is at a very good standard
NJPW: Great wrestling, but everything else is lacking

In what way is WWE better at anything beyond accessibility for western audiences

The arc of a stuffed animal is more effective pathos than anything WWE has churned out since the Festival Of Friendship

 

[Angry Grimace]

Congratulations to Anime Becky and Anime Charlotte on winning the anime tag belts:

 

[Fox318]

Congratulations to Anime Becky and Anime Charlotte on winning the anime tag belts:

Bout time somebody gave the women a shot.

 

[Foggy]

the styles clash if taken as "real life" would suggest can break your neck
of course there's a pretty easy way to avoid damage,but it's enough to keep the suspension of disbelief intact...

anywya,nevermind,seems like i'm the only one with a problem with the rainmaker,so obviously i'm wrong

I don't think you're wrong, just in the minority. Now if you want to talk about the Bayley to Bayley breaking disbelief, then we're brothers in arms.

 

[Sinatar]

So you guys ready for Battlegrounds? This is going to be a complete shitshow, I can feel it.

Hopefully Styles/KO delivers. Their last match ended just as it was getting good.