matty2Dfraud
Banned
yup, it is. guess there is no argument here then.
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Just got my console (and I assume my account) banned from Live for playing Halo 4.
- Thread starter Skel1ingt0n
- Start date
yup, it is. guess there is no argument here then.
Blue Ninja
Member
Oh come on. The store sold him a game early: there's no reason to burn him at the stake for it. He did nothing wrong.
Given the chance to buy it early, wouldn't you have done the same? Or would you have shrugged, looked the employee straight in the eye and said "No man, this is a game Microsoft invested heavily in, they need their time"?
I'm pretty sure a transaction happened.
What does giving $20 and picking up something while the clerk is not looking have to do with anything? That didn't happen. The guy handed money over and received the game. It's a transaction.
matty2Dfraud
Banned
what they're doing isn't stopping piracy at all. the few pirates they catch will be back at it in no time. they were never giving MS money and they aren't going to magically start. This just pissed off the consumer that was actually buying a legit product.
Point being... just because a problem exists doesn't mean it should be handled with a idiotic approach. even if that is the only option they have at the time. Microsoft is a smart company apparently. they've made a lot of money with this software and hardware stuff. they should probably use those brains to figure out a new approach.
Or they can fight to keep piracy from overrunning the industry while still having a method of recourse for those that were wrongfully banned to have their accounts reinstated.
Even if what you're saying is true (which it isn't, categorically speaking), such actions would still serve to deter future pirates from joining the free-game party. "Oh, so you got banned and had to buy a new Xbox? I'll just buy my games, thanks."
Exactly. I don't know why people are continuing to argue about that point. I don't think it has much relevance. He handed over his cash - they handed him the game.
This argument is just dumb. You're saying that because the pirate can go out and buy a brand new console, that MS should just do nothing. Also, you have no idea how many Halo 4 pirates have been banned.matty2Dfraud said:
It's not an idiotic approach. The idiotic approach would be to do nothing and allow the pirates to just get on with stealing software and playing it on Microsoft's network with no comeback whatsoever. Every company has issues with piracy. MS has issues with all of their software products being pirated - Windows, Office, games - all of it. It doesn't mean that they're not trying hard to prevent that though.matty2Dfraud said:
You may not believe me, but I would have asked for a receipt, and if I didn't get one I wouldn't have bought it. I don't really blame him, but I don't see how Microsoft alone is at fault. Maybe the store should have told him the risks...and hypothetically if I had bought it I would have accepted the risk associated with buying it illegitimately because I would recognize the transaction as just that.
Lé Blade Runner
Member
The only response I can think of - had I not done the same as the OP - is this:
"No man, I have heard a lot of stories about people getting banned for playing this game early. Save a copy for me until the release date, ok?".
That would have been the safest route to take.
Still, I agree with what you wrote - the punishment here shouldn't go to the consumer ( who bought a legitimate copy and is playing it on a non-modded console ). The retailer should be the one in trouble here.
He isn´t blaming Microsot.. he is blaming the store that broke the street date..
And if someone offered you Halo 4 you would decline..? come on..
for free (like a gift)? no.
Put money down and no receipt? yes.
In the latter, I'd understand the store is aware of some risk of the transaction and I'd be weary of the risk to myself from the transaction.
A system that produces false positives is likely flimsy and using your hypothetical proposal, pirates could probably play pretend and get unbanned as well. Unless MS required you to send in your console to get unbanned which would be weird and stupid.
And I still stand by my belief that if there's a chance for legitimate consumers getting caught in the crossfire, it should immediately be scrapped.
If you were gifted the game, played it and got banned.. how would you have reacted..?
How could I complain? Lol I would have no case. I wouldn't come on here and make a thread if that's what your asking.
The person put CASH down, and walked out with a game. I see many things wrong with this. For example, the store employee could pocket the cash and easily say you stole it.
Blue Ninja
Member
The store is at fault. Not Skel1ington. He got the game early, and it's a legitimate copy. Microsoft rightly banned him, but they also rightly unbanned him. It's a misunderstanding, nothing more. He should've gotten a receipt, but in all honesty, it probably wouldn't have stopped me, either. Space Jesus knows my store's ringed me up plenty of times telling me I could come and pick up a game a few days before release.
All this talk about the game not being 'legal' yet reminds me of the time Emma Watson was turning 18. Sure, she wasn't legal yet, but I'm people had played with her, too, already.
element
Member
It totally matters. How can he proved he bought it? There is no record of sale outside of a fist bump or secret handshake or perhaps a head nod. In the stores eyes that game would be considered stolen or missing right now, since the inventory says they have X copies, but they don't physically have those copies anymore. Considering people go to jail for stealing games, you think you would want to protect yourself.
how do you prove it? what prevents the clerk from pocketing the money and just telling the manager it was stolen? what if you want to return it or your disc is defective? I guess you could consider it a barter transaction, but you are putting yourself in serious liability. Pretty much the clerk didn't want a record of breaking the street date cause their punishment is far more serious thank getting their XBL account banned.
So I shouldn't use an antivirus product because all antivirus products can have issues with false positives? That makes those products "flimsy"?
It's not hypothetical. MS do unban people if they can prove that they bought a game legitimately. You can provide evidence of that if you are a legitimate consumer.pizzaroll said:
Again, the alternative is to do nothing and effectively send out a message saying "we don't give a shit about piracy!". That would make people do it even more. Worse for business, which ultimately means worse for legitimate gamers too in the long run.
The store IS at fault, but they are the only ones that covered their asses and therefore should be the ones that "get away" with this. Hopefully, they don't but I don't see how the store has less of a case than OP.
I absolutely waited until her 18th birthday to spank it. I threw my own mini-birthday party for her.
Actually, a detection system that works for 9,999 out of every 10,000 people is considered anything but flimsy.
If your system of protection against piracy has essentially equal opportunity to punish both regular consumers and pirates, your system is pretty fucking garbage at dealing with piracy. The fact that it both continues to be rampant even in the twilight years of the console and also continues to incorrectly hit folks that are actually willing to pay you for product should be perfectly clear evidence of that.
The actual problem with the situation in the OP is only between Microsoft and their distribution/retail partners. There is no excuse for a consumer getting fucked because of their failure to address those problems. Absolutely zero.
but you got a game for free (from someone) you put it in your machine. You play it. Next time you turn on your X360 your account is locked and the machine is locked. And you would not complain..? Why ..? you just lost 100 of dollars of stuff because you played a game..? what is wrong here..?
So if a mother goes to the same store as OP, and buys Halo 4 for her son as a bithday gift (because he asked for it), and his stuff gets locked... nah nevermind.. you will never see it any other way..
Blue Ninja
Member
It's just one damned game. If I were Microsoft, I'd be happy he actually bought it instead of pirating it.
RomanticHeroX
Member
It's a legitimate copy in the way that, say, a copy that falls off the back of a truck is a legitimate copy. Which is to say I don't think it's a legitimate copy at all, regardless of the fact that he gave money for it. If the store gives it to you on the premise that they'll actually ring you up later, you can't be unaware of that being a sketchy transaction. If indeed the word you yourself use to describe it is "shady," you don't get to call that a legitimate transaction. I'm not even saying I wouldn't do that in his place, but no unaware consumer has been hurt here.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Yup, if they catch you on your way home. Of course, you don't need to keep it afterwards.
How can MS ensure with 100% certainty that no store anywhere in the world sells a game before the street date? It's not like they're not trying.
Some of you idealists are clueless to how the real world works it seems. You think you could lock your system down so there's never any piracy at all, or figure out a way of ensuring that not 1 single copy of a game is ever sold early. lol. But meanwhile, back in the real world, a huge issue with piracy exists that must be addressed.
but what if you walk into a big building with several shops in it, go to a wending maching and buy a soft drink.. you will not get a reciept there.. ahh ok they wouldn´t be that hard on you.. just saying, that it´s a pretty harsh law..
Amazon does this with Kindle. Nintendo can't do it because they can't detect it. Sony hasn't done it because it was never a widespread problem. Also, with recent discoveries, they may be unable to detect it in the near future.
What is it that you want me to see? That an accident can happen. Just because I wouldn't complain...that doesn't take away her right to complain. I was talking about myself, and you bring up the mom who doesn't know better that...1) takes a game for free 2) doesn't ask questions 3) gifts to son 4) gets banned 5) complains. Am I supposed to sympathize with your new found scenario? You are asking a lot of me with every additional post, and while I understand her situation and hope that justice is served it has nothing to do with me.
As I said, if I knowingly took a game for free that got people playing it early banned and got banned for doing the same, I wouldn't complain. Yes I may be upset, mad, ask Microsoft to unban me if I felt my copy is legitimate (here is where I'd hardly have a case), but no I wouldn't complain (bash MS in this scenario).
Again, I don't deny her the right to complain but you were asking me if I would complain in a different scenario. And I said no. What other side to this is there? oh... the side where the mother's son gets banned and I have to look out for her. OK.
So you're saying the shop had stolen goods? Because that's what you're suggesting by comparing it with goods from the back of a truck.
What country are you from?
Ah, thanks.
RomanticHeroX
Member
I'm saying it's not substantially different. The shop has copies, he gave money to a guy, and he has the game. He did it on the premise that the store will acknowledge it as his copy later, but they won't right now.
Someone along the line there is doing something shady and he's not unaware of that. That's why I take issue with people saying it's a legitimate copy.
You can't. There's no idealism in my post at all. The point is that no consumer should ever get fucked as a result of your chain's inability to meet its own goals. A copy of a game being sold early should matter to nobody except the store that sold it and the folks that shipped that store those copies; there's no excuse for passing the buck onto your consumer base.
This huge issue with piracy has fuck all to do with what's going on here, really. A consumer couldn't "false positive" like this once street date passes, because this system doesn't look for pirated copies. If it did, they wouldn't have to whitelist people they already know they sent non-pirated copies to. It doesn't serve to address piracy whatsoever.
No I´m just asying not all people know about Street dates..
Imagine if you made software that couldn't be sold till a certain date, but in fact was sold early. How do you make sure that money goes to you? That the company doesn't file insurance claims on "stolen" goods? That people don't pirate that product before public release? That stores don't overcharge/undercut their competition by releasing early? That the store didn't pocket that money by not having receipts? How do you honor warranties to innocent customers? How do you report sales without receipts, or even taxes? You can't just be so obtuse about it. The store may have obtained the goods legitimately, but they didn't sell them legitimately hence the goods are stolen just the same to you, the software maker.
I see. Though, of the big three, it does seem to be mostly a MS thing. Thanks for the info!
MarkMclovin
Member
That's pretty shitty of MS to do that. They should at least contact you first before putting down the ban hammer.
I mean, what if whilst shopping the wife notices that a shop is selling Halo 4, knowing I'd like it, she gets it. She knows nothing about the game or anything about street dates as she's not a gamer. Then before I get home, decides to pop it in for a quick game with my daughter, banning my XBOX.
Fuck that.
I mean, what if whilst shopping the wife notices that a shop is selling Halo 4, knowing I'd like it, she gets it. She knows nothing about the game or anything about street dates as she's not a gamer. Then before I get home, decides to pop it in for a quick game with my daughter, banning my XBOX.
Fuck that.
Then you go through the proper channels and get it unbanned.
Also, I think your wife would find it pretty suspicious when they tell her she can't have a receipt for her purchase. What is this, a back-alley abortion?
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
element
Member
If the store told your wife "I can only take cash, since I can't actually ring this up on the register because I'm not allowed to sell it. Is that ok?" Do you think she would buy it still?
This is a store problem and a case of common sense for the consumer.
Every store that people typically buy games in has the SKUs locked in the system to actually prevent them from being sold. So the chances that some random person is walking into a store and buying (meaning buying it like any other game, receipt and all) is rare if not remote. This comes down to clerks and stores putting all the liability on the consumer.
But waifu got no receipt? Guess its ok for waifu to be stupid and give shady guy behind counter cash money and walk out store with game with no way to return, exchange, etc. I mean the guy could have sold waifu a box with halo cover art with nothing inside, right? Real anti consumer.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
People are acting like the game released and he got banned. He played it before the release date and Microsoft did what they do to combat what could have been a pirated copy. Why is that so hard to understand? They're going to unban him since he has an actual copy yet people are acting like its such an outrage that this happened and MS should do away with their pirate protection. Hell he should be so lucky that its going to be fixed when he has no receipt.
PSN Bans were a fake guys. Seriously nobody was banned from PSN because of the whole jailbreak thing, get your facts straight and no shitty sites like this. FYI.
Visualante2
Member
Nah man Microsoft effed up with their guilty until proven innocent stance.
But it can potentially cost retailers jobs. Best Buy plays by the rules, and in doing so they will now sell fewer copies of Halo 4.
And doing away with piracy prevention, as some have suggested, could definitely cost some developers their jobs.
PSN Bans were a fake guys. Seriously nobody was banned from PSN because of the whole jailbreak thing, get your facts straight and no shitty sites like this. FYI.
I guess countless sites on Google are telling the same lie, then.