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[I'm an expert]

you should contact kotaku, they usually blow things like this wide open and eventually the company involved in the case ends up giving a statement and if you manage to prove you acquire the game legally MS most likely would restore everything back to normal

You're 16 pages late to resolve this issue, it's already been resolved. Though I'm not quite sure how the op can prove his legal purchase.

 

[dreamer3kx]

Ha, ms is joke, banning for playing a game a bit early, played uncharted 3 one week before launch on ps3, this is ridiculous, I understand 360 is plagued with pirating unlike the ps3 but no need for this, how about warning?

 

[Interfectum]

Crazy Times: Getting banned for playing a game you purchased earlier than Microsoft marketing intended.

Batshit Crazy Times: Consumers defending this practice.

 

[I'm an expert]

Crazy Times: Getting banned for playing a game you purchased earlier than Microsoft marketing intended.

Batshit Crazy Times: Consumers defending this practice.

Unbelievably Insanely Batshit Crazy Times: People not understanding the business implications and ramifications behind all of this. (Read: Thinking MS gives a shit about you )

 

[codecow]

I gave a guy who worked at the grocery store across the street from EA a pre-release retail copy of Need for Speed maybe 3-4 NFS' ago. He ended up getting banned but they unbanned him when he told them where he got it.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

One, they have no way of confirming if you're a consumer or pirate, and two they don't really expect anyone having the game more than a full business week out without some sort of shady reason. The op admitted the entire transaction was shady, and it's obvious the retailer broke their contract with the distributor and should face legal repercussions. But for MS to go out of their way and put up a message in game or in the box or anything of that sort is a bit much.

"A bit much"? Frankly I think it's just common courtesy to warn consumers of the actions that will be taken against them if they break specific rules, rather than falling back on the catch-all "we reserve the right to ban the shit out of you for any reason whatsoever" in the Xbox Live TOS.

And I can't believe you just recommended that someone play their Halo 4 game a few days before release!

 

[ClosingADoor]

But if Microsoft are going to punish consumers as well, surely there should be a warning that your console and account is going to be permanently banned from Xbox Live if you try to play this game before the official release.

Yes, you'd think it wouldn't be that hard also. If they can detect you play the game before release and ban you, they can just as well lock you out from playing that particular game before release without a ban. Or give an alert when booting it up.

If I am a consumer, I don't deal with MS, I deal with a store. They are in the wrong, I just want to play a game and am not the one breaking any rules, because I didn't agree to any rules. This is just crazy...

Unbelievably Insanely Batshit Crazy Times: People not understanding the business implications and ramifications behind all of this. (Read: Thinking MS gives a shit about you )

As a consumer, what do I have to do with the effect early sales have on Microsoft's business. That's not my problem, that's an issue between them and the retailers.

 

[Hanmik]

Unbelievably Insanely Batshit Crazy Times: People not understanding the business implications and ramifications behind all of this. (Read: Thinking MS gives a shit about you )

But why do you, as a consumer, stand up for the corporation behind this..?

 

[Dennis]

Microsoft boxing in gamers.....and they like it! (hello Windows 8)

 

[Interfectum]

Unbelievably Insanely Batshit Crazy Times: People not understanding the business implications and ramifications behind all of this.

LOL

Fight the good fight man. You should be wearing an MS jersey while posting.

 

[I'm an expert]

"A bit much"? Frankly I think it's just common courtesy to warn consumers of the actions that will be taken against them if they break specific rules, rather than falling back on the catch-all "we reserve the right to ban the shit out of you for any reason whatsoever" in the Xbox Live TOS.

And I can't believe you just recommended that someone play their Halo 4 game a few days before release!

The issue is that common courtesy would be extended to someone using a pirated version of the game as well, who would then see the warning and avoid a ban by staying offline, yet still enjoying a pirated copy.

I didn't recommend anything, I said companies expect games to be out in the wild early a few days before release. NOT this far before release, as is the OP's situation.

LOL

Fight the good fight man. You should be wearing an MS jersey while posting.

I fucking hate MS, never owned a 360, think the 360 controller is shit, and think people who pay for Live are morons. I'm a Sony fanboy through and through. Doesn't mean I'm not an adult businessman who knows what's going on here.

 

[ClosingADoor]

The issue is that common courtesy would be extended to someone using a pirated version of the game as well, who would then see the warning and avoid a ban by staying offline, yet still enjoying a pirated copy.

I didn't recommend anything, I said companies expect games to be out in the wild early a few days before release. NOT this far before release, as is the OP's situation.

I think it's better to let 100 pirates free than to ban one actual consumer.

 

[I'm an expert]

I think it's better to let 100 pirates free than to ban one actual consumer.

What you think doesn't matter. What MS thinks matters, to them and their bottom line. But, obviously, MS doesn't want to ban a legitimate user and they are working on reversing the op's ban. So, what's the issue again? Ban first, ask later? That's what you sign up for with Live and MS.

 

[Dark Octave]

When does the game come out? Not 10/26/2012? Oh ok.

Shoulda unplugged.

 

[ClosingADoor]

What you think doesn't matter. What MS thinks matters, to them and their bottom line.

Yes, but we as consumers shouldn't defend these practices that are only for the companies bottom line if it isn't in our own interest also.

 

[Interfectum]

I fucking hate MS, never owned a 360, think the 360 controller is shit, and think people who pay for Live are morons. I'm a Sony fanboy through and through. Doesn't mean I'm not an adult businessman who knows what's going on here.

The game is out in the wild. Legitimate customers are getting banned for playing a bought copy early. That makes NO business sense. You should not punish consumers for retail failures and paranoia over pirated copies.

 

[The Elite]

I fucking hate MS, never owned a 360, think the 360 controller is shit, and think people who pay for Live are morons. I'm a Sony fanboy through and through. Doesn't mean I'm not an adult businessman who knows what's going on here.

As an adult businessman, do you honestly think punishing the consumer for a retail outlet's mistake is the right thing to do? It's bad PR and it's anti-consumer.

 

[gaming_noob]

Is the argument going in circles? The OP is getting his GT/Xbox unbanned, and unfortunately there's really no way of telling if the game was bought legitly or stolen. It's a huge inconvenience to the person who bought an unreleased game legitly but at the same time there are ways to reverse the ban if they called MS.

 

[I'm an expert]

The game is out in the wild. Legitimate customers are getting banned for playing a bought copy early. That makes NO business sense. You should not punish consumers for retail failures and paranoia over pirated copies.

As an adult businessman, do you honestly think punishing the consumer for a retail outlet's mistake is the right thing to do? It's bad PR and it's anti-consumer.

What MS's response is is irrelevant to me. They're not my company. I'm simply trying to explain why they'd be logically justified in their actions. Like I said, if you're angry with MS for these practices, vote with your dollar. Don't pay for Live and don't buy Halo 4. How many of you plan to do that?

 

[plastik]

Major Nelson, a Microsoft spokesperson, has stated playing retail copies of games on Live early, would not get you banned. It happens whenever there's a major release. I guess he has to backtrack on his words now. No early player should have to fear a ban if their copy is real.

OP's game is real and his console is unmodified. His ban is undeserved. But the thought of willing to throw more money at Microsoft by buying another console boggles my mind.

 

[The Elite]

Is the argument going in circles? The OP is getting his GT/Xbox unbanned, and unfortunately there's really no way of telling if the game was bought legitly or stolen. It's a huge inconvenience to the person who bought an unreleased game legitly but at the same time there are ways to reverse the ban if they called MS.

From what I gathered he got no help from MS. Frankie is the one helping him out. I'm not sure what MS will do if you call them.

It's still an issue from a consumer perspective as there are going to be a lot of people who get their hands on legit copies before release. Happens with every single game released. Banning those people for purchasing a legit copy is bad business.

 

[test_account]

Yup. I live pretty close to an Amazon distribution center and often get games early.

I love when i get games early But now i dont know if dare to play them before release date, even being offline. If the systems (PS3 and Xbox 360) werent hacked, then i would dare, since then piracy wouldnt be possible and they would know that it was a legit copy that was being played.

It's enough to play the game while physically disconnected from the LAN and reconnect later. The dates will tell MS that you played the game early and you will be banned.

Obviously, it's the consumer's duty to keep track of releasedates and not play a game before this date. It's Microsoft's right to enforce this duty by any means necessary. OP was in the wrong, Microsoft is in the right, we all know big corporations need protecting from consumers.

Spoiler

</sarcasm>

I see. There is also timestamps on achievements, if they monitor those things as well.

 

[Brainiac 8]

A picture of a man who has come to realize he sold his soul to the devil.

 

[Interfectum]

Don't pay for Live and don't buy Halo 4. How many of you plan to do that?

Don't have Live, not buying Halo 4.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

As an adult businessman, do you honestly think punishing the consumer for a retail outlet's mistake is the right thing to do? It's bad PR and it's anti-consumer.

Read my post two pages back. It's impossible for MS to separate good from bad. Because of the rules applied to retailers, Microsoft has to punish people for playing the game because they assume it's acquired illegitimately. The guilty until proven innocent approach is the only approach. Proving to be innocent will be quite easy by showing a receipt.

 

[I'm an expert]

Don't have Live, not buying Halo 4.

Keep fighting the good fight, mang!

 

[Interfectum]

Keep fighting the good fight, mang!

Not fighting any fight. Just pretty amazed at what people will defend nowadays.

 

[test_account]

Read my post on the previous page. It's impossible for MS to separate good from bad. Because of the rules applied to retailers, Microsoft has to punish people for playing the game because they assume it's acquired illegitimately. The guilty until proven innocent approach is the only approach. Proving to be innocent will be quite easy by showing a receipt.

I agree with this. Since they cant detect legit and pirated copies from eachother, they have to assume that all a pirated copies. But on this topic, i thought that Microsoft could easily detect any modded Xbox 360s? Or has this changed?

 

[I'm an expert]

Not fighting any fight. Just pretty amazed at what people will defend nowadays.

I'm not even defending anything. I have zero investment monetarily or emotionally in MS. Zero. None. I hope Halo 4 sucks and sinks them. Great. But I am trying to explain business practices and why a company might act the way would for business purposes. It's not as black and white as "Halo 4 fan gets betrayed by beloved big brother MS!!"

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I assume reviewers who are playing this now online are not showing themselves as being online. Because if they are broadcasting that they are playing it, anyone on their friends list who is not in the business of reviewing games may see that and assume it is ok to be online.

 

[LosDaddie]

It's unfortunate that consumers get caught in the crossfire between MS and retailers in these situations, but a call to Xbox support will be able to fix it. MS has business reasons for banning people/consoles playing a game this far out from launch date. I've got a few EA games early (the weekend before launch) from a friend to worked at EA Tiburon here in Orlando, and never had a problem.

Still, for the ~2% of consumers who legitimately get copies this early, it's a bummer.

Read through the first couple of pages. Man, people really take any chance they get to smash Microsoft or portrait them as an evil company. Think for a second people, think.

eh, par for the course on GAF.

 

[Interfectum]

I'm not even defending anything. I have zero investment monetarily or emotionally in MS. Zero. None. I hope Halo 4 sucks and sinks them. Great. But I am trying to explain business practices and why a company might act the way would for business purposes. It's not as black and white as "Halo 4 fan gets betrayed by beloved big brother MS!!"

Sure it's not black and white. MS has their reasons. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with consumers calling them out on their bullshit. Will it do any good? Probably not.

 

[I'm an expert]

Sure it's not black and white. MS has their reasons. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with consumers calling them out on their bullshit. Will it do any good? Probably not.

Oh I definitely wasn't trying to stifle the conversation. Complain and discuss all you want. I just joined the discussion to try and explain to those that didn't understand why MS would do this exactly why MS would do this. If people don't like the answer, that's too bad, but then take it up with MS.

 

[TheOddOne]

I agree with this. Since they cant detect legit and pirated copies from eachother, they have to assume that all a pirated copies. But on this topic, i thought that Microsoft could easily detect any modded Xbox 360s? Or has this changed?

Over at the OT:

Not currently, people are playing on retail live with jtags due to a new and still unfixed exploit, which also led to a new surge of modding in Reach. MS can't tell the difference between a pirated copy and a retail copy playing online, they look the same to the servers.

Easier to just do a whitelist.

 

[neorej]

I remember a time when retailers would get punished for releasing a game early; they would get the next big game late. Ah, how I loved those days.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

The issue is that common courtesy would be extended to someone using a pirated version of the game as well, who would then see the warning and avoid a ban by staying offline, yet still enjoying a pirated copy.

Ah, so the element of surprise is an important part of catching these fuckers! I see...

But, hang on, what sense does that make? In one scenario, you've got guys playing their early and pirated copies offline while still having unbanned consoles and Gold subscriptions, and in the other, you've got guys playing their early and pirated copies offline while having banned consoles and terminated Gold subscriptions. What possible advantage to anybody does the latter scenario have?

 

[NekoFever]

I see. There is also timestamps on achievements, if they monitor those things as well.

Achievements unlocked offline just show up as 'unlocked', whereas ones unlocked online show the date. There's no way for the console to be 100% sure of the time without an Internet connection because you can set it yourself. Are they going to ban you if you set your console date to 2005 while offline and Xbox Live thinks you played every game on the system early?

I remember a time when retailers would get punished for releasing a game early; they would get the next big game late. Ah, how I loved those days.

I used to love when my local indie would sell stuff early to regulars. They'd only do it for people who they trusted not to tell anyone.

 

[soulassssns]

http://www.bbb.org/western-washingt...rs/microsoft-corporation-in-redmond-wa-501264

Don't forget to report their asses for shady business practices.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

And you need the name of the store why?

Cause if this was an official and legit sale like some are saying, why hide the name of the store?

 

[I'm an expert]

Ah, so the element of surprise is an important part of catching these fuckers! I see...

But, hang on, what sense does that make? In one scenario, you've got guys playing their early and pirated copies offline while still having unbanned consoles and Gold subscriptions, and in the other, you've got guys playing their early and pirated copies offline while having banned consoles and terminated Gold subscriptions. What possible advantage to anybody does the latter scenario have?

The advantage is making sure NO ONE sees the content or is able to comment on the state of the netcode before release except the press. No one. Period.

http://www.bbb.org/western-washingt...rs/microsoft-corporation-in-redmond-wa-501264

Don't forget to report their asses for shady business practices.

You're talking about the retailer who sold op the copy, right? Surely not MS..

 

[blitzcloud]

Seeing at this again, I say that MS was VERY smart on their move.

Ban anyone online.

Ask for receipts to prove consumer innocence to see which store sold it breaking the date.

win/win situation imo.

 

[Gaspode_T]

In Japan if a store is caught selling the weekly comic Shonen Jump (that features comics like One Piece and Bleach) earlier than intended date of Monday, they are blacklisted and never able to sell any books or comics from that giant publisher. It happens sometimes because small chains or mom and pop shops like to sell as soon as they get them on Saturday or whatever, and those are the copies that get scanned and you see people in OT sitting there reading scantranslated versions of comics that I patiently wait until Monday to read. Summary: I don't care if you buy something early, just don't ruin the party for others, I have already been spoilered for One Piece like 3 or 4 times. Obviously any company would care about something like this.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Well we know it wasn't copied, but how can anyone verify that it wasn't stolen? I mean really? Currently there is no legit way to buy it (normal stores aren't selling it). The guy doesn't have a receipt to prove that he bought it.

I knew people that got legit games early because they had connections with a retail manager. The guy would ring the street dated game up for them as some other one off the shelf with the same price.

They wouldn't have a receipt for the early game either.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I knew people that got legit games early because they had connections with a retail manager. The guy would ring the street dated game up for them as some other one off the shelf with the same price.

They wouldn't have a receipt for the early game either.

Right. Because someone was doing something they were not supposed to.

 

[soulassssns]

The advantage is making sure NO ONE sees the content or is able to comment on the state of the netcode before release except the press. No one. Period.



You're talking about the retailer who sold op the copy, right? Surely not MS..

To whoever the person feels was getting screwed over in this situation.

 

[MMaRsu]

Crazy Times: Getting banned for playing a game you purchased earlier than Microsoft marketing intended.

Batshit Crazy Times: Consumers defending this practice.

There are so many dumb idiots in the world, ofcourse we are going to have some on GAF.

Fuck MS in this instance. It's a legally bought game. Sure he doesn't have the receipt but it's the stores fault not the OP. I know the issue has been resolved but only because he had Stinkles here. I doubt that the MS customer service would have helped him.

Seeing at this again, I say that MS was VERY smart on their move.

Ban anyone online.

Ask for receipts to prove consumer innocence to see which store sold it breaking the date.

win/win situation imo.

ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME LOL???

Guilty till proven innocent? For a service you are paying for? DA FUCK

Shit is going upside down in my head right now

 

[bryehn]

There are so many dumb idiots in the world, ofcourse we are going to have some on GAF.

Fuck MS in this instance. It's a legally bought game. Sure he doesn't have the receipt but it's the stores fault not the OP. I know the issue has been resolved but only because he had Stinkles here. I doubt that the MS customer service would have helped him.

Legally bought, but illegally sold.

 

[neoism]

anyone??

they didn't do it for reach so guess this is the first time I've heard of them banning CUSTOMERS for buying they game.....

You'd thing by now they would be able to tell if it was a pirated disc or a legit disc.

 

[The Elite]

There are so many dumb idiots in the world, ofcourse we are going to have some on GAF.

Fuck MS in this instance. It's a legally bought game. Sure he doesn't have the receipt but it's the stores fault not the OP. I know the issue has been resolved but only because he had Stinkles here. I doubt that the MS customer service would have helped him.



ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME LOL???

Guilty till proven innocent? For a service you are paying for? DA FUCK

Shit is going upside down in my head right now

Flash Clone Stinkles. Have him man the MS support lines.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

There are so many dumb idiots in the world, ofcourse we are going to have some on GAF.

Fuck MS in this instance. It's a legally bought game. Sure he doesn't have the receipt but it's the stores fault not the OP. I know the issue has been resolved but only because he had Stinkles here. I doubt that the MS customer service would have helped him.

It is not MS's fault, it is the store's fault and OP admits it in the first place. That is why he is hiding the name of the store from everyone. OP knows what he did was wrong and wasn't a legit sale, he said it was shady in the very first post.