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Justin Bieber, Skrillex Sued Over 'Sorry' Hook

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lenovox1

Member

Cipherr

Member
There's definitely a similar sound, but damn, thats like what, 3 to 5 notes?

Recording music sounds frightening as FUCK. Something like that could so easily be a coincidence. And the more music recorded the higher the likelihood of coincidence moving forward that could just wreck you in some court case.

Shit is kind of crazy.

Edit:

Yeah see? DAMN! And they definitely SOUND similar, but it was just flat out a coincidence. Thats fucking crazy man, imagine if it wasn't just a copy paste with higher pitch? How likely would they have lost this case behind a freaking coincidence...

Insane.
 
Yeah see? DAMN! And they definitely SOUND similar, but it was just flat out a coincidence. Thats fucking crazy man, imagine if it wasn't just a copy paste with higher pitch? How likely would they have lost this case behind a freaking coincidence...

Insane.

Just because they didn't sample from the copyrighted master track, doesn't mean they're not in violation of interpolating her song without credit. Which just means the owner of the masters (Usually the label) don't have any legal claims to it, but Publishing (Usually the writers) may have a claim to it.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
Just because they didn't sample from the copyrighted master track, doesn't mean they're not in violation of interpolating her song without credit. Which just means the owner of the masters (Usually the label) don't have any legal claims to it, but Publishing (Usually the writers) may have a claim to it.

So even in this case, if what was posted is actually how they came to it - it wasn't a sample, it was someone else's vocals they fiddled with... that would still be a violation?

Even if they did re-record it. Doesn't excuse it. Also that voice sample could have been created anytime.

I imagine they probably have an archived master track, so it would be pretty easy to prove one way or the other.
 
It doesn't really matter if they didn't sample it or not.

It would have made it way worse if they did but that isn't the only argument on the table
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
It doesn't really matter if they didn't sample it or not.

It would have made it way worse if they did but that isn't the only argument on the table

I am having trouble understanding the other argument, this is my best guess:

1. They heard that song earlier, and it inspired them to modify the voice just so

2. They didn't hear that song earlier, and it was a case of convergent evolution.

Are both things bad? Is only the former bad? Is the former bad at all?
 

lenovox1

Member
It doesn't really matter if they didn't sample it or not.

It would have made it way worse if they did but that isn't the only argument on the table

Then her legal team has to prove if the session singer was told to "copy your riff from this track." And now we have to prove that lifting a single riff of a grand total of five notes is copyright infringement.

There's not a lot of there there.
 
Gotta say I am pretty surprised that someone would react to someone "stealing" 5 seconds unoriginal melody. Sure they sound pretty identical, but it does not even form the basis of her melody.
 
So even in this case, if what was posted is actually how they came to it - it wasn't a sample, it was someone else's vocals they fiddled with... that would still be a violation?

Well sampling is way more expensive because you not only have to get permission to use it, but have to pay not only who owns the copyright to the original material (usually the record label), as well as pay the original performers, producers, and writers (publishing).

If you interpolate it, you merely recreate the portion of music you want and only have to pay the publishing fee and profit percentage share.
 

outsida

Member
They should have just cleared the sample. In this day and age you're not getting away with this. She's in for a huge check now because they didn't go about it the proper way.

Edit: Well now that I've seen that Skrillex vid maybe its not a sample.
 

lenovox1

Member
They should have just cleared the sample. In this day and age you're not getting away with this. She's in for a huge check now because they didn't go about it the proper way.

Edit: Well now that I've seen that Skrillex vide maybe its not a sample.

It's absolutely not a sample. They showed this exact process a year ago in the NY Times video.

Whether it's interpolated or not is the new question. And it's five notes, so... I don't know how a judge would go on this one.
 
Whether it's interpolated or not is the new question. And it's five notes, so... I don't know how a judge would go on this one.

Exactly. Although I can see a case be made how important those 5 notes are to the overall composition of Bieber's song. That melody is very memorable.
 

Fusebox

Banned
Down 4 semitones then up an octave, why not just up 8 semitones from the start, does that technically make the sample manipulated enough to use without release or something? You're not gonna get the grain of an old sampler doing that with Abletons algorithms so it seems redundant otherwise.
 

msv

Member
I don't get it though, the supposed sample is missing the last two ahhs completely? Its oo-oo-wah vs ooh-hoo-ooh-oo-ah. They don't really sound alike to me besides the ooh singing.
 

lenovox1

Member
Down 4 semitones then up an octave, why not just up 8 semitones from the start, does that technically make the sample manipulated enough to use without release or something? You're not gonna get the grain of an old sampler doing that with Abletons algorithms so it seems redundant otherwise.

This is deliberately unrelated to the original recording.

He's demonstrating the process they used to make sounds used in "Sorry."
 

Cipherr

Member
Just because they didn't sample from the copyrighted master track, doesn't mean they're not in violation of interpolating her song without credit. Which just means the owner of the masters (Usually the label) don't have any legal claims to it, but Publishing (Usually the writers) may have a claim to it.

This feels like a reach. Sure it could go that way, but I would be 95% to 5% that it actually does. She was wrong; I don't blame her for hearing a similarity and getting the wrong idea, but this looks like its going to be a slam dunk.

Even if they did re-record it. Doesn't excuse it. Also that voice sample could have been created anytime.

There's definitely going to be a way to prove when they recorded it. That would probably be pretty standard for music creation.
 

Dmented

Banned
I don't get it though, the supposed sample is missing the last two ahhs completely? Its oo-oo-wah vs ooh-hoo-ooh-oo-ah. They don't really sound alike to me besides the ooh singing.

You can rearrange samples to do this, which is exactly what was done in this case. As shown in the video Skrillex posted he took a piece of vocal sample, played with the semitone and from there you can do whatever you want with it. Slice a piece off and rearrange it, whatever.

Edit: Unless you were talking about the other song. Then, nvm.
 

Deadly

Member
if Diplo had said nothing I think this would probably be the end of it but he knew the band so I'd still say she's got a case.

I don't think you can claim coincidence if you're aware of the other song
Diplo isn't even involved in the song or case though.
Writer(s) Justin Bieber Julia Michaels Justin Tranter Sonny Moore Michael Tucker

Producer(s) Skrillex Blood
Skrillex probably should have kept the video for himself though. If anything, it should help their case and probably lessen the settlement.
 

MIMIC

Banned
Pretty much, he heard the song and recreated the hook.

Well, the artist is going to have to prove that he heard it. I'm reading on the court's thoughts with regard to the "Blurred Lines" controversy:

To prove copying with circumstantial evidence, the plaintiff needs to demonstrate: (a) access to the copyrighted work and (b) substantial similarity between the allegedly infringing work and the copyrighted work.21

Access to the copyrighted work may be shown by demonstrating that the defendant had actual knowledge of the plaintiff's work or had a “reasonable opportunity” to access the plaintiff's work.22 The plaintiff may establish access with circumstantial evidence by showing that a chain of events allowed the defendant to have direct access to the plaintiff's work (i.e., through record company dealings).23

Likewise, the plaintiff may demonstrate with indirect evidence that the defendant had a “reasonable opportunity” to access the work due to widespread public dissemination of the plaintiff's work.24

For cases involving musical compositions, a plaintiff may have more success proving access through widespread dissemination of its work by presenting evidence such as record sales or radio performances.25 Evidence that the plaintiff's work was widely distributed may also support a theory of subconscious infringement.26

Alternatively, access may be inferred without specific evidence if the plaintiff can show that the two works are “strikingly similar.”27 A court will infer access if the plaintiff can demonstrate that the similarities are only achievable through copying, and not by coincidence, independent creation, or use of a prior common source, which are defenses to copyright infringement.28

Emily Miao, "The Blurred Lines of What Constitutes Copyright Infringement of Music: Robin Thicke v. Marvin Gaye's Estate", 25 Westlaw Journal Entertainment Industry 1 (2014)


I even said myself that the two pieces of music share a "striking resemblance." But since he showed HOW he made the piece of music, I would figure that he would get the benefit of the doubt, if the song was not widely known. There isn't even a Wiki page for the song, just one for the album it's on. And I'm seeing that the song didn't have that many views until the controversy started.

He very well could have heard the song but it may harder to prove that legally.
 
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