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[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

How so? I'm not even defending him on his whole interview- Kanye's delivery is manic and egotistical. But this specific point, hes hit on truth.

If you don't think that the negative perception of an angry black man, as characterized by my post, exists in the modern American consciousness- then I don't know what to tell you.

This isn't about defending Kanye- its just about pointing out the truths set out in the specific quote in the OP. If that's humiliating myself, then so be it.

Stop. Please.

 

[Shiggie]

What does it have to do with him not having "connections?" We're seeing historic obstruction due to republican congressmen/senators appeasing their base, which hates Obama on a visceral level (and a racist level, for some not all).

well yeah. is that not connected? Im pretty sure if congress and the house were more diverse, those people in power would not have given the tea party any kind of day.

 

[Dude Abides]

I never said any of that im just stating how it is. And its not jewish people keeping anyone down. they simply have more and its obvious.

Kanye didn't say Jews have more. He said they have "connections" that Obama doesn't have, and suggested that if Obama had those "connections" he would be able to have more success. So what does Crown Heights, since you brought it up, have to do with any of that?

 

[PBY]

Stop. Please.

How is this adding to the conversation? What is so egregious that I'm saying that you disagree with?

Do blacks in America not have less social capital than whites? Is there not a stigma against the angry black man in American society?

Thats all I'm saying. You can disagree with the rest of the Ye fuckery.

 

[APF]

man theres a lot of muslims in brooklyn i mean just look at all the businesses along atlantic ave. if only obama were muslim, he wouldnt be having all these problems.

 

[The Driver]

Yay, another blurb from the same Power interview, now we can have the same conversations on Gaf with no context just like the last near 20 page thread.

 

[jerry1594]

man theres a lot of muslims in brooklyn i mean just look at all the businesses along atlantic ave. if only obama were muslim, he wouldnt be having all these problems.

lol are you serious? Obama's a muslim.

 

[Grinchy]

The majority of Kanye's fans will eat this shit up.

 

[Shiggie]

Kanye didn't say Jews have more. He said they have "connections" that Obama doesn't have, and suggested that if Obama had those "connections" he would be able to have more success. So what does Crown Heights, since you brought it up, have to do with any of that?

I used CH as an example. Having someone that owns business and real estate within such a close community as opposed to the splintered black community means that people have more chances to get better jobs and accrue money through those connection. You can start businesses easier and afford to take risks than if you have none.

 

[MThanded]

he's right.

oil people be ballin

 

[Dude Abides]

I used CH as an example. Having someone that owns business and real estate within such a close community as opposed to the splintered black community means that people have more chances to get better jobs and accrue money through those connection. You can start businesses easier and afford to take risks than if you have none.

Kanye didn't say Hasids. He said Jews.

Yay, another blurb from the same Power interview, now we can have the same conversations on Gaf with no context just like the last near 20 page thread.

10 pages. You need to upgrade to GAF Jew.

 

[Shiggie]

Kanye didn't say Hasids. He said Jews.

Still of Jewish faith. But you can interchange Jewish with white. People with more money have a better chance of using it to facilitate power and connection than those without.

 

[Dude Abides]

Still of Jewish faith. But you can interchange Jewish with white. People with more money have a better chance of using it to facilitate power and connection than those without.

But he didn't say white. He said Jew, specifically; and you can't interchange them, that's kind of the point. And I very much doubt he meant the faith rather than the ethnicity. A Hasid in Crown Heights has no "connection" to an atheist Jew in Los Angeles, unless you believe in Jewish conspiracies.

 

[Shiggie]

But he didn't say white. He said Jew, specifically; and you can't interchange them, that's kind of the point. And I very much doubt he meant the faith rather than the ethnicity. A Hasid in Crown Heights has no "connection" to an atheist Jew in Los Angeles, unless you believe in Jewish conspiracies.

I brought up Hasidics to draw a comparison to the people with money and connections comment. I dont believe in any conspiracy trash.

With atheist or non Hasidic Jews you can interchange with white, they're still seen as white in society. so it was easier to get all of those things and pass them on and such. And their community isn't as splintered as the black community.

 

[APF]

But you can interchange Jewish with white. People with more money have a better chance of using it to facilitate power and connection than those without.

So your defense is essentially, his incoherent Jew-baiting obscured the profound kernel of truth that people with money have power.

Voice of the generation.

With atheist or non Hasidic Jews you can interchange with white

The fuck are you even talking about? Take an enormous step back.

 

[Shiggie]

So your defense is essentially, his incoherent Jew-baiting obscured the profound kernel of truth that people with money have power.

Voice of the generation.




The fuck are you even talking about? Take an enormous step back.

Hasidic Jews are just peole of european origin.
And so are most American Jews.

 

[Necromanti]

I think trying to rationalize or make sense of some of the dumb and anti-semitic things said by Kanye is a futile exercise when we need to completely alter the meaning of what he said to do so. I don't see a strong reason for defending it.

 

[APF]

Hasidic Jews are just peole of european origin.
And so are most American Jews.

facepalm

 

[Baby Milo]

He did it he was allowed to show off his designs at the Paris Fashion Week but they were shit and now he's mad.

yeah and watching kanye try to parallel his failures with shit like this to get people to ride with him is gross. Of course his stans are carrying that flag. they are officially worse than Em stans. They just have bad taste in music you dudes are delusional.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Money makes the world go 'round. Courtesy of the mind of the modern day Aristotle, Kanye West. He just turned the concept into a witty turn of phrase about the Jews and their connections.

 

[Count Dookkake]

10 pages. You need to upgrade to GAF Goldberg.

fixed

 

[PBY]

fixed

lmao can we end this round and round discussion here? This is perfect lol

 

[Aylinato]

lmao can we end this round and round discussion here? This is perfect lol

Yes, it's pretty embarrassing watching you and some others defending anti-semitic remarks and trying to say "o he really meant white people" except that's not what he meant. He would have said white people if he meant white people, and the anti-Jewish remarks he says is historically anti-Semitic ideas that go back hundreds of years.


Here's. Hint, it's not true. Not one bit. Stop defending bigotry. Just stop. It's ok to be wrong, just walk away.

Kanye doesn't even understand what he's talking about.

Hint:Obama, the first black president, passed the largest overhaul of the healthcare system that about 6 other presidents failed to do. Kanye is not a genius in the slightest.

 

[PBY]

Yes, it's pretty embarrassing watching you and some others defending anti-semitic remarks and trying to say "o he really meant white people" except that's not what he meant. He would have said white people if he meant white people, and the anti-Jewish remarks he says is historically anti-Semitic ideas that go back hundreds of years.


Here's. Hint, it's not true. Not one bit. Stop defending bigotry. Just stop. It's ok to be wrong, just walk away.

Kanye doesn't even understand what he's talking about.

Hint:Obama, the first black president, passed the largest overhaul of the healthcare system that about 6 other presidents failed to do. Kanye is not a genius in the slightest.

Man, I don't want to do this again. I'm not defending bigotry. I actually don't think he said anything hateful- If he did, please point it out.

He said white people (including jews and oil money dudes) have more social capital and connections than black people. Thats all I'm defending.

If his intent was to actually to be hateful towards jews, well then I can't support that.

 

[Bluemongoose]

he still mad obama called him a jackass

Yeah, he's one to hold a grudge. Ask Jimmy Kimmel.

 

[Aylinato]

Man, I don't want to do this again. I'm not defending bigotry. I actually don't think he said anything hateful- If he did, please point it out.

He said white people (including jews and oil money dudes) have more social capital and connections than black people. Thats all I'm defending.

If his intent was to actually to be hateful towards jews, well then I can't support that.

Except he didn't say white people. He said Jewish people. Which is not true.


He said Jewish people have more connections then the president because it's a fucking stereotype. How do u not understand how that's hateful?

Aside from him being a bigot, his entire point is completely wrong anywhere, so there is that as well.

Also, since u seem so keen on defending his Jewish statement. Please point out where the Jewish people have more connections then the USA president.

 

[SoulPlaya]

This entire debate is fucking ridiculous. He's the President. You honestly think he became President without having "connections"?

 

[PBY]

Except he didn't say white people. He said Jewish people. Which is not true.


He said Jewish people have more connections then the president because it's a fucking stereotype. How do u not understand how that's hateful?

Aside from him being a bigot, his entire point is completely wrong anywhere, so there is that as well.

Also, since u seem so keen on defending his Jewish statement. Please point out where the Jewish people have more connections then the USA president.

Jewish people having connections is a stereotype? I just don't see it as being hateful. Is he being hateful towards oil people?

Call the statement dumb, which it may be, but I don't see hateful. I think his point is that Jewish people and white oil moneyed people have more connections than blacks- and thats accurate. The president stuff is Kanye fuckery.

 

[Devolution]

This is what happens when you try to defend the simplistic moronic nonsense of a dude trying to sound deep while complaining about how his fashion efforts aren't getting off the ground in some avenues. It can't be that he's giving himself bad PR in the industry. It's always something else, something bigger than his shitty attitude and running of his mouth.

 

[Alucrid]

This is like a gameshow titled "I Know Jewish People"

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

At a glance, it sounds like Obama isnt what Kanye wanted him to be and so he is scrambling for excuses to explain that.
Irrespective of skin color, I would have thought Obama would have had the same infrastructure and connections available to any Democratic president.

 

[Aylinato]

Jewish people having connections is a stereotype?



I just don't see it as being hateful. Is he being hateful towards oil people?

Call the statement dumb, which it may be, but I don't see hateful. I think his point is that Jewish people and white oil moneyed people have more connections than blacks- and thats accurate. The president stuff is Kanye fuckery.

First bolded. Yes, stereotypes are both negative and positive. Mostly because they aren't true, that's why they are stereotypes. I mean he is also blaming Jewish people because they have more connections than President of the United States and if the President were Jewish he would get everything he wanted done. If you cannot see how that logic fails, then you should at least realize that what Kanye said was an incorrect stereotype to blame others for his own shortcomings. He is relating the success of Jewish people he knows comparatively to himself, and trying to extend that thought into why a black President would be failing. He's projecting his own personal prejudices on a situation because that's what he believes, that Jewish people run everything.


Point out to me in your magnificent research where Jewish people have more connections than black people.


Let me show you this quote from someone more versed in this topic:

Some people argue that Jewish people have played a special role throughout history–oppressing Black people and keeping them from achieving prosperity within the capitalist system.

It is argued that Jewish merchants and slave owners played a special role in the brutal slave trade that brought kidnapped Africans to the New World.

It is said that Jewish merchants and landlords are a special cause of the poverty of Black communities.

It is said that “Jewish control” of the media and educational institutions has led to a conscious “Jewish conspiracy” to produce “negative images” and “self-hatred” among Black people.

These views are not true–they are based on myth, distortion and a promotion of mistaken prejudices. And all those who really want to end the oppression of Black people–and all oppressive systems–need to take a scientific approach on who is the enemy:

The main oppressor and main enemy of the masses of Black people is the capitalist-imperialist system and its ruling class. It is this system that has lived off the labor of generations of Black people and millions of other working people. It is this system that has created the urban ghettos, today’s massive unemployment, the armed occupation by police, the systematic oppression Black people face as a people –and it is the ruling class of this system that profits from and defends those conditions.
Jewish people are by no means the main oppressors of Black people, nor have they been historically. In fact, Jews as Jews have never in history been major oppressors of any people or classes.
Today, the majority of Jewish people in the U.S. are middle class, playing many different social and political roles in society. Some merchants and slumlords in Black ghettos, especially in New York City, have been Jewish. But even then, those merchants and property owners were not the main oppressor of Black people or the main cause of poverty in those communities. Overall, the vast majority of Jewish people are not oppressors, and have a potential to be allies and supporters of the revolution.
Anti-Semitism, which claims that Jews as Jews are an enemy, plays into the hands of the real enemy. If a Jewish person did a thing, it does not mean that Jews as a group were behind it. Or that it benefited Jews as a group. There are some Jewish people within the ruling class and others who play an oppressive role in society. But this is a matter of their class position and their role in the overall structure of capitalist society and economy–not of their “Jewishness.”
There is no “international Jewish conspiracy” and there never has been. Writings like “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” that claim to document such conspiracies are complete fabrications written by reactionaries and police agents–and circulated to poison the minds of the people.
Jews as Jews are not oppressors–but the state of Israelis an enemy of the international proletariat. Israel is the direct oppressor of the Palestinian people, in the service of imperialism, and is a major outpost of imperialism in the whole region of the Middle East. Zionism is a reactionary nationalist movement that supports Israel and its oppression of Arab people. But Zionism is not the same thing as the Jewish religion, Judaism. Zionists claim to speak for all Jews–but they do not, in fact, speak for all Jews or represent their interests.

http://kasamaproject.org/history/1059-91blacks-and-jews-a-revolutionary-view
By Mike Ely.

 

[PBY]

First bolded. Yes, stereotypes are both negative and positive. Mostly because they aren't true, that's why they are stereotypes. I mean he is also blaming Jewish people because they have more connections than President of the United States and if the President were Jewish he would get everything he wanted done. If you cannot see how that logic fails, then you should at least realize that what Kanye said was a incorrect stereotype to blame others for his own shortcomings. He is relating the success of Jewish people he knows comparatively to himself, and trying to extend that thought into why a black President would be failing. He's projecting his own personal prejudices on a situation because that's what he believes, that Jewish people run everything.


Point out to me in your magnificent research where Jewish people have more connections than black people.


Let me show you this quote from someone more versed in this topic:




http://kasamaproject.org/history/1059-91blacks-and-jews-a-revolutionary-view
By Mike Ely.

Whoa. Hold up. I never made the leaps your making.

Secondly- I'm not arguing that the Jewish people held black America down; but its undeniable fact that they hold more positions of power in America than blacks do- just because of the very nature of how limited black American presence is in elite positions. Which isn't anything groundbreaking or hateful- its obvious.

Youre making those leaps, not me. Stop painting me as something that I'm not.

 

[Aylinato]

Whoa. Hold up. I never made the leaps your making.

Secondly- I'm not arguing that the Jewish people held black America down; but its undeniable fact that they hold more positions of power in America than blacks do- just because of the very nature of how limited black American presence is in elite positions. Which isn't anything groundbreaking or hateful- its obvious.

Youre making those leaps, not me. Stop painting me as something that I'm not.

Show me then where Jewish people hold more power then black people.

 

[PBY]

Show me then where Jewish people hold more power then black people.

A quick google search of billionaires-
http://www.jspace.com/news/articles/the-jewish-billionaires-of-forbes/8044
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongnsehe/2013/03/05/the-black-billionaires-2013/
http://mondoweiss.net/2013/04/forbes-jewish-billionaires.html

There are 165 Jewish billionaires to 7 black billionaires.

Its not a indictment of any people or the Jews, just a reflection of fucked up socioeconomic demographics in America.

The deck is stacked against blacks in America. Thats all i'm agreeing with that Kanye said. And that should be obvious, not sure what their is to debate

 

[KingFire]

I admit that Jews have more connections in Hollywood. However, "oil people?" Any rich powerful individual probably has lots of connections, whether that's an oil man or a delusional rapper.

 

[Aylinato]

A quick google search of billionaires-
http://www.jspace.com/news/articles/the-jewish-billionaires-of-forbes/8044
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongnsehe/2013/03/05/the-black-billionaires-2013/

Now show me why them being Jewish means that they have more power then black people, because you didn't show me why Jewish people had more power then black people with linking to billionaires.

 

[PBY]

Now show me why them being Jewish means that they have more power then black people, because you didn't show me why Jewish people had more power then black people with linking to billionaires.

165 billionaires to 7 black billionaires? Cmon man.

Not sure how productive or useful this discussion is, but there are certain ugly, evident truths about the realities of black America that you're ignoring for some reason.

 

[Devolution]

This whole argument ignores the people of influence who donated to Obama's campaign. Kanye doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about, again.

 

[Alucrid]

A quick google search of billionaires-
http://www.jspace.com/news/articles/the-jewish-billionaires-of-forbes/8044
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongnsehe/2013/03/05/the-black-billionaires-2013/
http://mondoweiss.net/2013/04/forbes-jewish-billionaires.html

There are 165 Jewish billionaires to 7 black billionaires.

Its not a indictment of any people or the Jews, just a reflection of fucked up socioeconomic demographics in America.

The deck is stacked against blacks in America. Thats all i'm agreeing with that Kanye said. And that should be obvious, not sure what their is to debate

Kanye is saying that President Obama, due only to the color of his skin, lacks the same connections as "Jewish people" and "oil people." Do you agree with that?

 

[Aylinato]

165 billionaires to 7 black billionaires? Cmon man.

Not sure how productive or useful this discussion is, but there are certain ugly, evident truths about the realities of black America that you're ignoring for some reason.

Evident truths?


So tell me why does them being Jewish mean that's why they have more power then black people?

 

[PBY]

Kanye is saying that President Obama, due only to the color of his skin, lacks the same connections as "Jewish people" and "oil people." Do you agree with that?

I'm saying that blacks in general do not. As for Obama, I think (and Kanye is to some degree experiencing this now as he gets richer), Kanye's point is that demographically speaking, Obama looks around and there are no black people at his level. No family ties. No nepotism. No long standing family relations. You look at other Presidents, and that isn't the case.

Now- Kanye makes the leap that this directly has hindered his performance. I say its gotta be a uniquely difficult position, but I dont agree that thats the reason why Obama has failed in some respects.

 

[Alucrid]

I'm saying that blacks in general do not. As for Obama, I think (and Kanye is to some degree experiencing this now as he gets richer), Kanye's point is that demographically speaking, Obama looks around and there are no black people at his level. No family ties. No nepotism. No long standing family relations. You look at other Presidents, and that isn't the case.

Now- Kanye makes the leap that this directly has hindered his performance. I say its gotta be a uniquely difficult position, but I dont agree that thats the reason why Obama has failed in some respects.

It was a yes or no question.

 

[Coreda]

Another 20 page Kayne said something thread incoming...

 

[Baby Milo]

165 billionaires to 7 black billionaires? Cmon man.

Not sure how productive or useful this discussion is, but there are certain ugly, evident truths about the realities of black America that you're ignoring for some reason.

you following them kanye talking points hawrd

 

[PBY]

It was a yes or no question.

Of course not.

I would say that Obama lacks the same connections and resources that a white, or oil moneyed president has though. I'm not making the leap however that that gap is significant or is the reason for failure however.

 

[PBY]

you following them kanye talking points hawrd

Man. This is my point the whole thread. That isn't a Kanye talking point. Thats a fucking American reality.

 

[Alucrid]

Of course not.

I would say that Obama lacks the same connections and resources that a white, or oil moneyed president has though. I'm not making the leap however that that gap is significant or is the reason for failure however.

Stop conflating "white" and Jewish.

 

[PBY]

Stop conflating "white" and Jewish.

I'm not. Theres not a lot of evidence to go on with Jewish presidents though eh? Thats why I switched that out. Who knows what the reality of a Jewish president would look like to be honest, I don't know enough on the subject.

 

[Aylinato]

I'm saying that blacks in general do not. As for Obama, I think (and Kanye is to some degree experiencing this now as he gets richer), Kanye's point is that demographically speaking, Obama looks around and there are no black people at his level. No family ties. No nepotism. No long standing family relations. You look at other Presidents, and that isn't the case.

Now- Kanye makes the leap that this directly has hindered his performance. I say its gotta be a uniquely difficult position, but I dont agree that thats the reason why Obama has failed in some respects.

That poor Kennedy family that came to power with no family connections. So your point is moot.



So now how do Jewish people have more power then black people? Like why does them being Jewish have anything to do with how successful they are?


If them being Jewish was there reason then why aren't there any black Jewish billionaires? Why not just convert to being Jewish to get all those "connections"?