-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Katawa Shoujo |OT| (VN, Free, Waifus, etc)
- Thread starter Dresden
- Start date
Attackthebase
Member
I think the 4chan post summed it up perfectly, "I went in prepared to fap, but I wasn't prepared to feel."
I also thought this game would be an insult, but like Mr. Hobo, it was a big deal, so I checked it out. And I felt like I haven't felt in a year. There were tears.
Whelp, I had respect for her opinons, then she killed it.
RyougaSaotome
Member
I like how they clearly got angry in the podcast when she said that. Hahaha.
Attackthebase
Member
And the guys at Giantbomb rarely get angry; in a way, it's actually an achievement.
Completely agree with this part of her review. It's really interesting to see someone come out with such a similar viewpoint, as the internet has been rife with either unbound love, or unsubstantiated hate, neither of which the game deserves. It's a monumental game, as well as a significant achievement, but as a product, it falters in the genre.
You shouldn't misinterpret her here- in this context, badly written does not mean it is a trashy-novel type of writing, nor writing on the same level of quality as Episode II, but that it lacks the strength of narrative and design that it is presumably being regarded highly for... perhaps due to the fact that western ADV gaming is still in its infancy.
Not sure quite what you mean here, but while it's certainly true Katawa Shoujo blocks many of the basic tropes that so many mainstream ADVs and eroge are rife with, it is not exactly the first nor the only one to do so.
Not to deny your point, but if that's all you've experienced in the genre up until now, you've been experiencing the wrong things.
RyougaSaotome
Member
Not to deny your point, but if that's all you've experienced in the genre up until now, you've been experiencing the wrong things.
To be fair, I'd say the vast majority (the hundreds upon hundreds) of Japanese VNs aren't any good. Go into a store here and you're treated with boxes and boxes of bad games.
It's very, very easy to miss the good stuff.
Of course. Especially nowadays, it'd almost be safe to say about 90% of what's released each month is either generic, trashy, or niche-cash-in stuff.
But it's those one or two unforgettable games you run across every once in a while, that makes the journey all worthwhile.
Completely agree with this part of her review. It's really interesting to see someone come out with such a similar viewpoint, as the internet has been rife with either unbound love, or unsubstantiated hate, neither of which the game deserves. It's a monumental game, as well as a significant achievement, but as a product, it falters in the genre.
You shouldn't misinterpret her here- in this context, badly written does not mean it is a trashy-novel type of writing, nor writing on the same level of quality as Episode II, but that it lacks the strength of narrative and design that it is presumably being regarded highly for... perhaps due to the fact that western ADV gaming is still in its infancy.
Not sure quite what you mean here, but while it's certainly true Katawa Shoujo blocks many of the basic tropes that so many mainstream ADVs and eroge are rife with, it is not exactly the first nor the only one to do so.
Not to deny your point, but if that's all you've experienced in the genre up until now, you've been experiencing the wrong things.
I don't disagree with anything you've said, but as I stated before, the idea that the game has nothing compelling or pleasurable or that it 'defies engrossment' is perhaps true for her, but not of a large amount of people who have played it, and that's the main part of her opinion piece that I take issue with.
RyougaSaotome
Member
Of course. Especially nowadays, it'd almost be safe to say about 90% of what's released each month is either generic, trashy, or niche-cash-in stuff.
But it's those one or two unforgettable games you run across every once in a while, that makes the journey all worthwhile.
Precisely! And I would argue that if KS were a retail product, digital or physical, I wouldn't lump it with the 90% of crap. ^^
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I think it's just inconsistent. Every path has some downright cringe-worthy lines, yeah, but there's some really fantastic work as well. Rin's path is an exception in that it's just damn good through and through.
Deaf/mute's where it's at. It helps that the art in her scenes seem to be a step up from most of the others
lolEmi
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
I really liked some of the story in KS, may be I just have bad taste. I wonder what VN the reviewer enjoyed.
The reviewer just hate VN, and start a career by laughing at VN and people that loved them. This is like asking a Nazi to review a Kosher Restaurant.
Perhaps she was a bit too harsh and dismissive in her opinion in that regard then. The game does have some good points about it, but it also would be unfair to not recognize its flaws as well.
The game definitely has very competent writing, that much is clear. It is the storyline and flow where the issues would lie.
If you'd actually read any of Leigh's previous work you'd find this to be incorrect.
It seems on one hand we have a group of people almost completely unfamiliar with VNs using KS as their gateway and perhaps calling it the best thing ever out of newness and familiarity, and then on the other hand we have the people who are completely dismissive of it because "there are better VNs," the composition of such being whatever fits into their personal comfort zone.
As usual, the truth lies somewhere inbetween. Personally, I think it's very solid work but yet shows some unevenness and evidence of lack of experience on the part of the writers. I think it actually being written in English helps quite a bit.
As usual, the truth lies somewhere inbetween. Personally, I think it's very solid work but yet shows some unevenness and evidence of lack of experience on the part of the writers. I think it actually being written in English helps quite a bit.
StunandStab
Member
I'm curious as to how this thread is 38 pages considering VN's are usually pretty niche, even on GAF. I've never played a VN before and I had convinced myself that they probably aren't my thing... but is this game that good? Is this something I should be checking out?
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I kind of agree. I do feel like she missed the point on a few notes. I think Katawa Shoujo pretty much defied all expectations and the hard work of its creators should be celebrated.
Many people like the game for their own reasons and were definitely engrossed(me included)during play. That's why I find the claim that it "defies engrossment" to be a bit disingenuous especially when she acknowledges that many people like it toward the end of the article.
Give it a shot. It's free, and you can always stop playing if it's not your thing.
StunandStab
Member
That's true. I also have nothing better to do tomorrow, so I will definitely give this a shot!
I am requoting you, because I can.
Pureauthor
Member
You can see reactions run the gamut all across the internet. From those who refuse to look at it because 'it's from 4chan/you date disabled girls/they named it Katawa Shoujo jesus christ' to those who've experienced it as their first VN and gush about and those who like it and can stand some improvement and those who've played it and legitimately found it boring/offensive.
I like the idea of Katawa Shoujo and I think it's mostly done competently enough, but every single route has problems of one kind of another, whether it's pacing, poor storylines, etc. It's a solid effort, especially for the first work of a bunch of internet volunteers.
I like the idea of Katawa Shoujo and I think it's mostly done competently enough, but every single route has problems of one kind of another, whether it's pacing, poor storylines, etc. It's a solid effort, especially for the first work of a bunch of internet volunteers.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
OMG Lily, why u so waifu <3
Just entered chapter 4 and her route is so NGHHHHH
Just entered chapter 4 and her route is so NGHHHHH
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that it's just a troll.
Seems to be, either that or I suck at following instructions.
Edit: You can't really follow 1a 2b instructions etc since the answers switch places... :/
avrophantasm
Member
Yeah, wow.
Well, military uniforms are a type of fetish, but nobody should go that far, jesus dick.
Anyway, KS's writing flaws I think are due to the fact these flaws are kind of conventional in the eroge/VN genre. The writing is amateur-ish but KS's audience is either forgiving or unaware. But I don't think fans should be looked down on if they really enjoy it.
Lot of photoshop going around these days
R_thanatos
Member
Hum just finished Hanako route ( good end )..
Pretty much disapointed that unlike Lily there is only one H scene on "that" path ..
It's also a shame that unlike Lily route , hanako , and the MC doesn't have clear plans for the future at all in the ending ..
I liked the pool part , except that it should have been more intense ( like the other fights i've seen in the game so far ) ..and the MC shouldn't have dodged iwananko question like that ... It's a nice route , but it felt rushed at some points ...
It's also a shame that unlike Lily route , hanako , and the MC doesn't have clear plans for the future at all in the ending ..
I liked the pool part , except that it should have been more intense ( like the other fights i've seen in the game so far ) ..and the MC shouldn't have dodged iwananko question like that ... It's a nice route , but it felt rushed at some points ...
GhostWriter24
Member
Dude, take a look at my avatar and tell me that SS uniform isn't sexy as fuck. Not sympathizing with them, but as far as military uniforms went they were pretty slick.
Attackthebase
Member
The writer for the Hanako route had an epilogue written up for her story, but it was later scrapped. Somewhat happy it was scrapped, since it was depressing as fuck (the writer posted his story on his blog).
I personally liked the ending. It emitted a hopeful relationship between Hanako and Hisao. I thought he had some form of future laid out in front of him? I thought for Hanako's story, he was going to an university to study in the field of science.
I actually really enjoyed the pool scene. Hanako development hasn't gotten to the point where she would had an intense argument.
Also, Lilly is a nympho, Hanako seems to be the exact opposite, so it made sense to only have one H scene. Plus, it was supposed to be an emotional/crucial moment between the two characters.
I actually really enjoyed the pool scene. Hanako development hasn't gotten to the point where she would had an intense argument.
Also, Lilly is a nympho, Hanako seems to be the exact opposite, so it made sense to only have one H scene. Plus, it was supposed to be an emotional/crucial moment between the two characters.
R_thanatos
Member
That's the opposite.
The mc has plans in lily route and not in hanako route.
They say that they should look for their future together[]
The mc has plans in lily route and not in hanako route.
They say that they should look for their future together[]
Attackthebase
Member
All right, I must've mixed them up in my head. Thanks for the correction. Anyway, since you corrected me, there is a reason for me to include this thought in now.
Hisao's personality adapts to whoever he hangs out with the most (like in real life). Hanako didn't seem to know what she wanted in life, thus Hisao would have been stuck in the same situation. On the other hand, Lilly comprehended what she wanted in her life, so this pushed Hisao to figure out his future too.
I think the one route that proves to be the exception is Emi's route, since Hisao at least knew he wanted a career involving science, even though Emi's future is unclear.
Hisao's personality adapts to whoever he hangs out with the most (like in real life). Hanako didn't seem to know what she wanted in life, thus Hisao would have been stuck in the same situation. On the other hand, Lilly comprehended what she wanted in her life, so this pushed Hisao to figure out his future too.
I think the one route that proves to be the exception is Emi's route, since Hisao at least knew he wanted a career involving science, even though Emi's future is unclear.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Im pretty sure that both routes have the Hisao
going to science university
Emi's route also use the
science
I find interesting that I find this routes with this type of Hisao more compelling than the rest.
Rin and Shizune`s Hisaos are funking idiots, but Rin's Hisao is saved for the writting.
My issue with her is that she'll say stupid shit and when people call her out in it she says it's "because I'm a girl" and we're all obviously sexist/misogynist/etc.
It's a disingenuous way of trying to elicit a response from the internet. (And for the most part it works I guess)
And then she gets drunk and ruins podcasts.
I would have the same problems with any dude who pulled the same garbage routine.
avrophantasm
Member
Yeah I know but...
Nazi dating game.
...
Well, the KS devs did do a good job with their subject matter. It might be possible if you do a lot of research for historical accuracy and treat the subject matter with the immense historical tragedy of the war in mi-
NO WHAT AM I SAYING
XeroSauce
Member
Don't let her bad wordplay fool you; those uniforms were really sharp.
Most people agree that the writing was weak at parts, but it came together with the music to really give the reader a sense of appreciation for the story's values. There will always be the high end critics and low end critics.
R_thanatos
Member
I just finished Hanako route before writing up my post above ..and from what i've seen ..he call her to the park , big talk and the "gotta look for our future together" scene ..THE END ... Sure it's mentionned several time on that route that he is good at sciences ( and bad at history ) but the subject of his future is never completed ...it ends on a happy note with both characters looking out for the otherbut that's it.
Total opposite from lily route where it's set and written
Total opposite from lily route where it's set and written
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
So I finally picked up the game again and finished Hanako's route. And I agree with you guys that it was oddly paced but I liked it, better than Emi anyway.
Damn, I feel like a rapist
Hanako and Hisao blatantly have feelings for each other, and as time goes on there's mounting sexual tension between them as well. So when Hanako bared herself to him and accepted his desires, Hisao thought that they were having loving, romantic sex. Then the next day, she tells him that it was no such thing and that she simply had sex with him to change his perception of her. She played the man for a fool and took his virginity, his spiritual purity -- just to prove a point.
In other words, Hanako was the real rapist.
In other words, Hanako was the real rapist.
Hey Jintor, this is your doing right?
Not sure if you posted this here or not, but I came across this as I was scouting around for some more KS fan-art and noticed some of the other artwork you posted on here too. Really great work on this, man. I almost want to get a poster of this haha.
Not sure if you posted this here or not, but I came across this as I was scouting around for some more KS fan-art and noticed some of the other artwork you posted on here too. Really great work on this, man.
I almost want to get a poster of this haha.chickdigger802
Banned
woo finally got around to playing this over the weekend (parent's home. integrated card laptop T_T.)
For some reason I just enjoy keeping this one on auto play, yet I breeze past most other eroges.
hmmm... Pretty decent stuff even though it took me a while to figure out the deaf girl combo.
Made me go play Risk again with my bro lol.
For some reason I just enjoy keeping this one on auto play, yet I breeze past most other eroges.
hmmm... Pretty decent stuff even though it took me a while to figure out the deaf girl combo.
Made me go play Risk again with my bro lol.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I will agree with this. I have played better, but I went into this expecting nothing and came out enjoying this far more than I ever expected. Quite valiant effort for a first work.
Co-signed. I've gotta say, their
first sex scene together was one of the classiest sex scenes I've seen in a VN. The whole tying his arms behind his back is both kinky, and a message to not question her with stuff like "Are you sure?" or whatever. She'd made up her mind and she didn't want him second guessing her. Took me by surprise. ^^; Also, dat decision when Misha suddenly ends up in you room, and suddenly the choices "Comfort her" or "Refuse" showed up. I honestly didn't expect this game to go in that direction as an option, despite it being a total NTR possibility, simply because I never saw any hint of Misha liking him at all earlier (and as it turns out, her thing is for Shizune, not him) and was just feeling lonely at that particular moment. So yeah, I enjoyed this route.
Attackthebase
Member
You should feel proud, it became my wallpaper for my Macbook. When you finish your draft, I'll be updating it.
There are some nuggets of gold within Shizune's path, however the golden parts are hidden by a mountain of poorly-written filler. I mentioned earlier that I dislike Misha for 90% of the game. Her art and character do not appeal to me, this becomes reverse when the art changes and Misha acts serious. Then, 80% of chapter 3 was simply dreadful when Hisao had to deal with her family. Chapter 2 also had some dreadfully dullful parts, only time I wasn't skipping through the text was when Hisao was speaking to Shizune alone.
Shizune is one of my favorite characters in the game, I just wish she had a better writer for her route.
Shizune is one of my favorite characters in the game, I just wish she had a better writer for her route.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Same here. Based on what I'm reading in this thread, I'm glad I did her route first.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Well, finished finally all the routes possible.
Amazing game.
Here are my lists:
Routes:
Lilly>Hanako>Rin>Emi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shizune
Girls:
Lilly>Hanako>Emi>Misha>Miki>Rin>>>>>Shizune
Last Words:
-Lilly waifu material.
-Why u dont have routes Miki and Misha
That is all.
Amazing game.
Here are my lists:
Routes:
Lilly>Hanako>Rin>Emi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shizune
Girls:
Lilly>Hanako>Emi>Misha>Miki>Rin>>>>>Shizune
Last Words:
-Lilly waifu material.
-Why u dont have routes Miki and Misha
That is all.
Well, finished finally all the routes possible.
Amazing game.
Here are my lists:
Routes:
Lilly>Hanako>Rin>Emi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shizune
Girls:
Lilly>Hanako>Emi>Misha>Miki>Rin>>>>>Shizune
Lilly waifu material.
Why u dont have routes Miki and Misha
Totally approve of this list.
Even if I don't think Shizune (herself not her route) is that bad.