Let's get something straight. Rare as it exists now is not capable of producing quality software and certainly not capable of handling a legacy IP. They are a bunch of code monkeys who can make Kinect Sports titles. That's it.
This game has been given to a dreadful developer and will probably be terrible but it would have been just as bad if 'Rare' developed it. The Rare of yore no longer exists.
I do not agree with this assessment. Rare has been on a mass hiring spree over the last year. They've plucked up quite a bit of ex codemasters guys and some randoms from volition and bizarre. The Rare of now is not the Rare of 20 years ago but they are far from a group of code monkeys only able to do Kinect shit. Right now they're staffed up more like another Turn 10 than the Rare that made KI back in the day...farming out Killer Instinct was a smart choice.
And people REALLY need to get it through their heads that this is not the Double Helix that made homecoming or green lantern. This is a new team with some fighting game vets brought together strictly for this game. I seriously wish people could look past the name of the dev MS hired and look at the tons of footage filmed since E3 and read the tons of interviews done with this team or impressions from people that have actually played the game.
Sorry if this has been brought up in these terms before, but regardless of how good the game will turn out to be (I'm cautiously optimistic myself by the way), isn't it the most ironic thing ever for Microsoft to finally return to the KI franchise since they bought up Rare but not have them develop it?
Again, regardless of how well Double Helix will do, this decision strikes me as being something that falls between very odd to downright malicious towards Rare (fans). Or is there any sign that Rare themselves simply didn't want to make new KI games (or any other games in their older series for that matter)?
These kind of strange turn of events aren't even that rare (no pun intended). One other recent example was with Double Fine and their Broken Age kickstarter. At that time Ron Gilbert was already working for them, but somehow he didn't want to get involved and reform his old super tag team with Shafer. Ok, he was working on The Cave then, true, but after that was done, he simply left entirely instead of joining the kickstarter project when he had the chance.
Both of these cases must be caused by behind the scenes politics and planning schedules (displaying again how rigid the games industry can be) because otherwise I can't really explain why these companies appear to not want use the best (wo)men for the job. (Or is that my answer right there: Rare / Ron Gilbert weren't the best for those jobs despite my beliefs?)
From the interview IGN did with Ken Lobb, it seemed more like that current Rare simply wasn't capable of it due to staff experience (Most of their recent hires coming from Codemasters, Bizarre Creations and Studio Liverpool don't exactly scream "fighting game") and Microsoft were aware that the landscape for fighters massively changed in the last few years. So they used a developer with a passion for the game and used that developer as an umbrella to build a focused team around the game that meets current fighting game needs and has the resources to do so (especially being in Cali and having a good location to tap into FGC feeback) rather than giving it to Rare and having to import a bunch of yanks over to the middle of the English countryside for a few months.
It doesn't seem like an insult. More them adapting development for the needs of modern fighting game fans.
Plus, Rare made a lot of shovelware on the NES before DKC. Double Helix getting judged for that is a hilarious irony considering how Rare evolved.
Filthierich as Jago does a 19 hit combo that does 43% damage as builds up 'potential damage' in the combo and ends its properly (around the 4:25 mins).
Sabrewulf does a 20 hit combo that only does 18% damage, as no ender is used (around the 5 mins mark). None of that potential damage from the combo is converted into actual damage.
From the interview IGN did with Ken Lobb, it seemed more like that current Rare simply wasn't capable of it due to staff experience (Most of their recent hires coming from Codemasters, Bizarre Creations and Studio Liverpool don't exactly scream "fighting game") and Microsoft were aware that the landscape for fighters massively changed in the last few years. So they used a developer with a passion for the game and used that developer as an umbrella to build a focused team around the game that meets current fighting game needs and has the resources to do so (especially being in Cali and having a good location to tap into FGC feeback) rather than giving it to Rare and having to import a bunch of yanks over to the middle of the English countryside for a few months.
It doesn't seem like an insult. More them adapting development for the needs of modern fighting game fans.
Plus, Rare made a lot of shovelware on the NES before DKC. Double Helix getting judged for that is a hilarious irony considering how Rare evolved.
That actually clarifies the situation quite a bit. Thanks! And I agree: in this particular scenario Double Helix does seem like the better fit (though in purely symbolical terms it still feels ironic to me to not involve Rare a bit more, even though this is probably indeed something that reflects the current realities within Microsoft's development teams)
And in case some readers misinterpreted me: I never stated that Double Helix would automatically do a bad job, or that Rare would do an outstanding one per definition. As with all modern game development teams that shrink and expand in size all the time, it remains difficult to judge what quality level a certain name stands for (and yes, this applies to both Rare and Double Helix in this case). A few new key people can make a world of difference, especially if they can manage to improve a team with their creative vision and good leadership and when they bring specific levels of expertise to the table (on fighting games in this example). In other words: I tend to keep an open mind for a long as possible about a game's chance to be good, KI included.
I think the dropping of the DRM side will give a great boost for KI-One. AT least it should get taken up more by the fighting community right? Will be fun to see how EVO picks it up.
If the game turns out to be fun, I think it'll have a good chance at being respected for a while. And the team behind it seems like they truly want to make something great out of it, and support it as long as they can.
I really feel like it's a "Madcats" situation. The company made below-par controllers and accessories for years, Markman's initiative to making High Quality Fighting game products has now made them very successful, and worthy of respect. I can easily see the same happening for KI's team at Double Helix; KI could be the game that sets this specific team into a new level, that'll give us much to look forward to for the next few years.
Trust me, that trailer does the gmae no justice at all. Watch some gameplay videos on youtbe you'll find that the graphics are really really nice, especially the particle effects for fireballs.
The only thing I get from the trailer debacle is "People are way too quick to judge, off a miniscule amount of info."
But I'm quite glad the DH team stepped up, and gave fighting community types EXACTLY the kind of info they needed to see, almost immediately. It was barely a few hours after the revel trailer, and they gave us HOURS of game footage, and info to many important sources all over, with a game we barely even knew existed a day before.
They're so open-book about what they're doing right now. It's actually very refreshing to see.
Sorry if this has been brought up in these terms before, but regardless of how good the game will turn out to be (I'm cautiously optimistic myself by the way), isn't it the most ironic thing ever for Microsoft to finally return to the KI franchise since they bought up Rare but not have them develop it?
(It seems like RobotRocker said a lot of what I was thinking as I typed this, but it's typed now, sooo..)
It really doesn't bother me in the slightest. The few Ex-Rare people they have involved seem to be much more significant than the shell of N64-Era Rare that exist at the company now.
If this whole situation was done within, say, 2 years of KI2's creation, I'd be aggravated, and would feel for all involved. The team would be there, the ideas would be clawing their way out of the minds of the designers, and everyone would probably be pumped to make a new iteration of something that was very near and dear to them.
But current Rare is made up of a bunch of people who made Viva Piñata, and some Kinect sports games, which people seem to want to give no bit of a chance.
I actually though the XB-One Sports title looked decent, if not for me...
They seem like an entirely different company, with a way different focus. Even the Banjo game they made a few years back (one of the few things of theirs in the past 10 years that I purchased on release) was panned pretty hard, and seemed not to be able to connect with any of their old audience.
So what Microsoft is doing right now... actually seems smart to me. They find a company that they can basically piece together their own team under; they can pick and choose useful developers to assist, rather than stick with a name for legacies sake. And they seem to have chosen the right people; The initial gusto and hype from Double Helix has been some of the best we've seen from a Western Fighter dev.
Even at this early state, I swear this looks so much more appealing to actually PLAY, than Netherrealm's games... and I actually like Injustice...
And if KI takes off the way DH wants it to... I think we need a team like them, to passionately make it into a constantly evolving product. Would Rare have been able to do that? Or would they have just completed it, smiled, and then been moved on towards supporting their more lucrative Kinect / casual friendly titles?
Also, the fact that this is a launch title for a new system seems really nice to me.
This isn't some small-time indie by a first-time fighting game dev, that was convinced to release on the platform at the last minute.
It's not something with shallow gameplay systems, that's being thrown out just to check off a "fighter!" box on the systems arrival.
It's not a huge genre to be throwing money at, like a TPS, FPS, or Racer.
It's an oddly niche game, with a few passionate people producing a product that really seems to be trying to step up to the plate. Versus some of the loftiest expectations set forth by any genre.
It's not a port of an already-released game (like Tekken Tag 2 was for Wii U), or a lazy HD filter spit-shine of an already-released game.
It's a native, new KI, for the first time in years, at a time when there is no other competition at ALL on the system it's releasing for.
Honestly, I feel like Microsoft is thinking with the future of this brand in mind. And that many KI fans are thinking about this brand, simply with a "But how will I feel Day 1!!!" mindset.
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I really hope fighters begin to grow along with emerging tech this gen. I'm tired of leaving stages, characters, and animations behind in old games, that might as well have never existed once the next release rolls over. Blazblue series, KoF XII to XIII, SFIV series, maybe even Soul Calibur IV to V... all of these could have been released under the same base download, and iterated on continually, keeping all the old content around, while offer the new items as time saw fit.
Why can't a fighter Update like Pinball FX did? It brought all it's old table into it's Pinball FX 2, gave them graphic and physics upgrades, and made them part of the new product with few issues.
I hope the "evolving platform" nature of this KI works out, and helps get over the growing pains the FGC has to go through, to accept such changes.
Microsoft seriously needs to have the Killer Instinct demo come preinstalled on all Xbox one systems. It would be huge for the fighting community. People not into fighters may never download the demo to give it a try but if it's already on their system they're more likely to try it than just delete it first. For that matter I want to see them do this for Project Spark too.
Microsoft seriously needs to have the Killer Instinct demo come preinstalled on all Xbox one systems. It would be huge for the fighting community. People not into fighters may never download the demo to give it a try but if it's already on their system they're more likely to try it than just delete it first. For that matter I want to see them do this for Project Spark too.
Trust me, that trailer does the gmae no justice at all. Watch some gameplay videos on youtbe you'll find that the graphics are really really nice, especially the particle effects for fireballs.
Pro gamers are saying very positive things about the game too, the ones that were at E3. Man I spent so many hours playing SSF4, and remember back in the day when I was a kid playing KI2 as Tuskar.
Pro gamers say positive things about every fighting game before it comes out, and the ones they usually seem to "like" end up being shit, while the ones they're luke-warm on become the biggest hits.
Pro gamers say positive things about every fighting game before it comes out, and the ones they usually seem to "like" end up being shit, while the ones they're luke-warm on become the biggest hits.
SF x T also had better builds before the gems got brought in as well. Post Gems and the game being tweaked for that, the FGC turned on it and deservedly so.
Yeah... it was. Not by all, but I remember some people, namely Mike Ross, being extremely hyped and saying it was the best fighting game engine ever.
MvC3, from what I remember after the early reveals, people thought was junk at the start.
Not to pile on the negativity but having just watched the video posted above I can't say it allays any of my apprehensions. To be frank it looks bad, to me. The combos are strings of 1 move being repeated 4-5 times, the pace isn't quick enough to make up for this nuance, and the crowd is only cheering for stuff that hits the nostalgia feels, like "C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER". If this game became a tournament game, when every round is ending in ultra combos, they'll never cheer for that, the players will just pause and quit when they get ultra'd. And the flow of combat doesn't excite me either, with every combo in pro matches eventually going to be broken unless they do a lockout. It looks janky, stiff, and that big "X" over the players head for lockout mechanic looks pretty amateur - why couldn't they have replaced it with a shadow/glow/outline?
It may be good in the end... but I don't think people getting excited for a game like this speaks definitively in favor of the game's quality, as people will have been yearning for a sequel for a long time, and happily take whatever is thrown at them.
It may be good in the end... but I don't think people getting excited for a game like this speaks definitively in favor of the game's quality, as people will have been yearning for a sequel for a long time, and happily take whatever is thrown at them.
At this point in the industry, I think fighting game players should try anything. 2012 was the pinnacle of fighting game over-saturation and very few of those titles found success in the same year.
Besides KI, I'm not sure what else to look forward too. GGXrd won't even be around until E3 2014, Smash Bros is also next year and JoJo's is undecided on NA release. Right now, I think we should happy with anything being thrown at us.
At this point in the industry, I think fighting game players should try anything. 2012 was the pinnacle of fighting game over-saturation and very few of those titles found success in the same year.
Besides KI, I'm not sure what else to look forward too. GGXrd won't even be around until E3 2014, Smash Bros is also next year and JoJo's is undecided on NA release. Right now, I think we should happy with anything being thrown at us.
I suppose if the MO is to keep the scene moving through new releases, playing fighting games for fighting games' sakes, then yeah you'd want to play everything that gets thrown your way. It's always fun to have whatever is the newest game. I have a habit of buying every fighting game that comes out, just because they're new and I like fighting games - this is good for the industry, but what's good for the scene is for the quality to be high, not the quantity.
I'm excited for KI3 because it's KI3 and I used to play KI until my thumbs blistered, but then I see it being played my excitement wanes - it doesn't have the panache that the KI and KI2 had when they came out. It just looks sadly bland.
Microsoft seriously needs to have the Killer Instinct demo come preinstalled on all Xbox one systems. It would be huge for the fighting community. People not into fighters may never download the demo to give it a try but if it's already on their system they're more likely to try it than just delete it first. For that matter I want to see them do this for Project Spark too.
Pro gamers say positive things about every fighting game before it comes out, and the ones they usually seem to "like" end up being shit, while the ones they're luke-warm on become the biggest hits.
I'm excited for KI3 because it's KI3 and I used to play KI until my thumbs blistered, but then I see it being played my excitement wanes - it doesn't have the panache that the KI and KI2 had when they came out. It just looks sadly bland.
I disagree with the bland comment, I think it looks really good in its current state and I would expect it to get better as they show more characters and stages. I'm definitely a casual fighting fan, more to play with friends while sitting on the couch and trash talking each other. I'm not sure how the FCG is looking at the game, but for the "drinking bro's" crowd, it looks fantastic.
Come on, cut the console warrior shit. PC gets its fair share of games, so who knows down the road it may come to pc. There I have about as much knowledge as this guy.
Come on, cut the console warrior shit. PC gets its fair share of games, so who knows down the road it may come to pc. There I have about as much knowledge as this guy.
It wasn't announced for the PC nor was it hinted for the PC. MS themselves stated they want to keep games exclusive to the xbox platform. So what are you talking about? You need to calm down. I don't care as long as I get to play the game. he asked if it was coming to the PC and i gave him the correct answer which is no.
Microsoft seriously needs to have the Killer Instinct demo come preinstalled on all Xbox one systems. It would be huge for the fighting community. People not into fighters may never download the demo to give it a try but if it's already on their system they're more likely to try it than just delete it first. For that matter I want to see them do this for Project Spark too.
There are a couple of reasons I can't get hyped for this one:
1: It's on the XBone
2: It's f2p model (demo)
3: Smaller roster (compared to other fighters and confirmed by DH)
I hope this game succeeds, but I won't be buying it day one, maybe down the line, but MS would have to drop Kinect and convince me that DRM is not lurking at the horizon, waiting tio be patched back in.
I don't get all the anticipation about this game. Seriously people, don't you want to keep those expectations in check? this game is being developed by total amateurs when it comes to fighting games. They have never made a fighting game, and the last game they made was Silent Hill Homecoming (??)
I don't get all the anticipation about this game. Seriously people, don't you want to keep those expectations in check? this game is being developed by total amateurs when it comes to fighting games. They have never made a fighting game, and the last game they made was Silent Hill Homecoming (??)
I don't get why you give a crap about peoples expectations. But to answer question, because most of the people who have played they game in it's current state enjoyed it. Add the fact that it's been only a fools wish up until it was announced and you have the recipe for some valid hype. Hell I have gotten to the point where I think I've grown out of fighting games, but I still want to give the game a try.
I'll never understand why FG players want large rosters straight out the game in every fighting game.
Getting a few characters to actually work and be balanced from the get-go is so much more important than tossing in 25 characters, ending up having only 3 worth using, and then adding more atop the pile, while the rest collect dust.
I'd much rather see them head in a Virtua Fighter 5 direction (everyone is deep and useful) rather than a UMVC3 (half the roster is just fluff, or used as assist and filler, to promote the main crop of characters).
I don't get all the anticipation about this game. Seriously people, don't you want to keep those expectations in check? this game is being developed by total amateurs when it comes to fighting games. They have never made a fighting game, and the last game they made was Silent Hill Homecoming (??)
Please watch the live presentations at E3, the streams, read the interviews, and check out the actual people involved with the game.
With the information given, I don't think anyone is saying this'll dethrone the biggest fighting games, but it's already safe to say that this has a chance of being a very solid alternate fighter to play. And so far, it's the only fighter we'll see on the next generation of consoles for possibly more than a year. It's in a good place to become decently popular.
I'll never understand why FG players want large rosters straight out the game in every fighting game.
Getting a few characters to actually work and be balanced from the get-go is so much more important than tossing in 25 characters, ending up having only 3 worth using, and then adding more atop the pile, while the rest collect dust.
I'd much rather see them head in a Virtua Fighter 5 direction (everyone is deep and useful) rather than a UMVC3 (half the roster is just fluff, or used as assist and filler, to promote the main crop of characters).
I don't think it is that hard to see. While I'm sure some players are perfectly content to tier whore, other players do prefer certain styles or designs. Even if the game was perfectly balanced, it is meaningless if there isn't a character that player can see playing with/as.
I don't get all the anticipation about this game. Seriously people, don't you want to keep those expectations in check? this game is being developed by total amateurs when it comes to fighting games. They have never made a fighting game, and the last game they made was Silent Hill Homecoming (??)
It's Killer Instinct. The series wasn't as awful as War Gods/Rise of the Robots, but it wasn't that great a franchise to begin with. So far the footage looks fine.
I don't get all the anticipation about this game. Seriously people, don't you want to keep those expectations in check? this game is being developed by total amateurs when it comes to fighting games. They have never made a fighting game, and the last game they made was Silent Hill Homecoming (??)
I don't think it is that hard to see. While I'm sure some players are perfectly content to tier whore, other players do prefer certain styles or designs. Even if the game was perfectly balanced, it is meaningless if there isn't a character that player can see playing with/as.
It's Killer Instinct. The series wasn't as awful as War Gods/Rise of the Robots, but it wasn't that great a franchise to begin with. So far the footage looks fine.
I still hate the art direction.(Which is about on par with War Gods in my mind) Playing KI2 over the weekend, the ugliness of KIbone really stands out. And that's not to say KI2 characters look that great.
I don't think it is that hard to see. While I'm sure some players are perfectly content to tier whore, other players do prefer certain styles or designs. Even if the game was perfectly balanced, it is meaningless if there isn't a character that player can see playing with/as.
But eventually, I'd hope people would start to notice that GOOD characters are much more important for a game than MANY characters.
I'm a person who prefers the odd and wacky characters; that the "subclasses" that splint off from the main group myself. So I'm exactly the kind of player who enjoys large rosters. But these characters are meaningless in online play, and tourney play, if they're too under-powered to make a difference. All they serve to do, at that point, is provide fun for casual gaming, which doesn't really help to grow the scene for the game.
A fundamentally flawed game is much more damaging to a game's chances to survive, than being short a character or 2, y'know?
I still hate the art direction.(Which is about on par with War Gods in my mind) Playing KI2 over the weekend, the ugliness of KIbone really stands out. And that's not to say KI2 characters look that great.
I just can't see it. I'm missing some of the KI effects in the new one (Like glow-y lazer swords), but the colors and overall readability of old KI was so... ugly, in retrospect. It's like everything was either TOO extreme, or TOO bland. Never hitting a point of balance & quality.
I mean, really, what are the ATTRACTIVE points of old KI's art design? I can't even like it much in a "so 90s it hurts!" way. I'm totally on board if we're talking about sound design, as I like much of the music, and I think they do a better job with their in-battle voice work than MK of the day.
I'm very glad new KI seems to have taken a lot from JP fighters design wise, from motion to character design. If it had that stiff, awkward movement to it's animation, or that "no one's silhouette is unique, save for helmets and arm pads!" feeling of a Mortal Kombat, I'd be disgusted.
I really want to see what a female character looks like from them, though, before serious judgment. The old KI "Every woman is Latoya / Janet Jackson with a Wig" look won't cut it anymore.
I hope their new direction embraced different body sizes and build between more than just "Humans VS Monsters", like before.
I don't get all the anticipation about this game. Seriously people, don't you want to keep those expectations in check? this game is being developed by total amateurs when it comes to fighting games. They have never made a fighting game, and the last game they made was Silent Hill Homecoming (??)
So because you made a bad bowl of Spaghetti, there's no EARTHLY way you can cook a good steak? The game plays pretty great at this early stage from the people who actually played it. A fighting game couldn't be more different than a survival horror game, so I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.
Not sure if you know the genesis of this project, but Microsoft put a call out to developers that they wanted a new KI, and studios put together demos and concepts, and DH's demo won Microsoft/Ken Lobb over. So it might actually be pretty good! Who'd a thunk it!
I see a lot of people shitting on Double Helix for not having experience making fighting games. Did Rare have any experience making fighting games prior to making the original KI? I'm pretty sure they didn't.
I see a lot of people shitting on Double Helix for not having experience making fighting games. Did Rare have any experience making fighting games prior to making the original KI? I'm pretty sure they didn't.
Yeah, I always thought the original KI was kind of janky, even for its time. Not that I don't like it, but the new one seems like it has its head on a little straighter from what I've seen.
I just can't see it. I'm missing some of the KI effects in the new one (Like glow-y lazer swords), but the colors and overall readability of old KI was so... ugly, in retrospect. It's like everything was either TOO extreme, or TOO bland. Never hitting a point of balance & quality.
I mean, really, what are the ATTRACTIVE points of old KI's art design? I can't even like it much in a "so 90s it hurts!" way.
For me, there is obviously a lot of nostalgia around the original games, but what I think the KIbone art direction fails at is bringing anything new to the table with its presentation style, as well, the characters are uninspired and remove the the light-hearted design that KI and KI2 characters had.
There was a cartoon quality to the old games that basically showed that the game didn't take itself too seriously. It was a nice middle ground between Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. In the reboot, Jago has shaved the back (and sides?) of his head, has a very serious, non cartoony death scowl, and is covered in a tiger tatoo.
I also liked the simple cinematic nature of the original games. In the first KI, an FMV for each character played on the versus screen as the game queued up the fight. In the new game we get a static versus screen ripped right Def Jam fight for New York, followed by your standard SSIV rippoff intro cutscene.
Basically, for me what it boils down to is that KIbone is the same old stage we have been used to with the PS3/360 gen except the players in this theater lack any interesting characteristics for me to be able to appreciate it. The old games were unique in their presentation(Comparatively to other games of the day) . The character design may have not been timeless but it wasn't offensive and again, I appreciated the balance between cartoon and realism.
I personally think that the new character designs of Jago and Sabrewulf look better.
Jago is suppose to be a Tibetan Monk. The baggy style pants look fitting. I also like the tiger head on his knees which open and close as he moves. His old design is not that great. It's essentially just some ripped clothes. Apparently in one of the dev interviews they have come up with a story reason for his tattoo.
I've always thought that the original Sabrewulf design looked as if something was off slightly. I think it might be the shape of his head, I'm not sure.
Any how, I expect we will see classic costumes as DLC. It's an easy money maker.
We will just have to wait and see how the other characters are redesigned. I wonder if they will change Cinder's design.
Back then when I played that game at a friends house (never owned it) I thought the characters looked vicious and badass. Today I think the characters look goofy and slightly comical. In the new KI I think they look as badass and vicious as I remember the old ones, and they are also animated appropriately - that Sabrewulf is just hnnghn.
I hope they manage to make good looking female characters too, something that Netherrealm for example just can't seem to get right... *shudders*
I've always thought that the original Sabrewulf design looked as if something was off slightly. I think it might be the shape of his head, I'm not sure.
I never really cared about Jago (if you had asked me to list the cast of KI characters, I would probably have forgotten him), but I prefer the old look of Sabrewulf. He looked like a big dog then, now he's a hairy monster.
I never really cared about Jago (if you had asked me to list the cast of KI characters, I would probably have forgotten him), but I prefer the old look of Sabrewulf. He looked like a big dog then, now he's a hairy monster.
I never really cared about Jago (if you had asked me to list the cast of KI characters, I would probably have forgotten him), but I prefer the old look of Sabrewulf. He looked like a big dog then, now he's a hairy monster.
There was a cartoon quality to the old games that basically showed that the game didn't take itself too seriously. It was a nice middle ground between Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. In the reboot, Jago has shaved the back (and sides?) of his head, has a very serious, non cartoony death scowl, and is covered in a tiger tatoo.
