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There is a big difference between LCD Tv's and monitors, but no one standard. They all range, but on average LCD TV's have the most blurring amongst all TV types.

Those are two different things

Yes he's telling the truth, and measured input lag is different to the response time you see in TV or Monitor specs, most companies won't put the input lag measurement in their specs and it's usually left up to the enthusiasts out there to measure it themselves.

Take my monitor for example, a Dell 2407wfp, it has a response time of 16ms (black to white) or 6ms (grey to grey), this is not the same thing as input lag, my monitors input lag is around 35-45ms.

Because of the image processing going on, it depends on your settings too.

Ah ok. I didnt mean to say that he wasnt telling the truth (i am not saying that anyone told me that i said he wasnt telling the truth, but i just wanted to say that i didnt ), i just thought 100ms sounded alittle much, but i wasnt quite sure that there were too much difference between a LCD TV and a LCD Monitor, so i had to ask. But now i have learned something new today Thanks for the answers everyone!

EDIT: I added some text.

 

[A.R.K]

Yeah, this is getting really annoying.

No offense cakefoo, you're making matters worse. This is a design issue, not a bug or a glitch.

Sending it to guerilla isn't going to solve anything.

People are now inventing problems in their mind with this game. It's reached a certain level of criticism that I thought would never happen, and honestly it kind of disgusts me that people are resorting to frame by frame analysis for this game.

This. I am so glad most of the reviews came out early else they would have been tempered by the unneccesary attention this control lag non-issue is getting in the media. All this bitching and moaning would have caused a ripple effect on the media scores for sure.

 

[McBacon]

BREAK OUT THE FUCKING MOUSE + KEYBOARD CUZ THEY WORK TOO.

Is this a joke? I don't want to unplug all my shit for a joke.

 

[Private Hoffman]

As a proof of concept to my self for why i wasn't going to do the flick test in videos to test input lag i tried it in Gears 2 also. Again, there were non responsive flicks, like you just said. It's tougher to do there due to the design of the sticks, but if you're trying to flick it super fast, you can sometimes have it not respond.

Basic conclusion I've drawn for myself atleast is as follows.

Yes, there is lag. There is also lag in every other console game I've tried it on. When I compared KZ2 to Resistance , there was about 1 extra frame of latency on average. The end result for me is that while it is there, and if it were fixable it would be worth it to me, the way it does acceleration makes it feel like more latency than it is. By getting used to the acceleration, the latency becomes a significantly smaller issue. In the end, it's not enough to bother me enough to affect my enjoyment of the game.

I've put my videos I did of KZ2 and Resistance 2 online along with my excel file I used to compute the average delay in frame count of the video so people can see what I'm talking about. The videos are in 3g2 format and can be viewed using VLC player or Media Player Classic.

http://rapidshare.com/files/195660911/input_lag.rar.html

upload it to youtube please

 

[____]

Is this a joke? I don't want to unplug all my shit for a joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgIFo3wp0T4

 

[Sutanreyu]

Some people also need to take into consideration that their TVs also produce a slight amount of latency. If you have an HDTV set that does a lot of post-processing picture enhancement, this will increase the time between the actual transmission of video, and actually displaying video. Turning off these options, if possible, will reduce that input lag. Dunno if this has been said in the thread already. >.>

 

[McBacon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgIFo3wp0T4

Oh, smart frags and everything. Shame!

 

[A.R.K]

Whoa. You need to chill out, and back away from the keyboard.

Slowly.

boy you dont wana fucking mess with me at this time when my PS3 is dead and I can't play the demo which I loved!!!!111!!!

(disclaimer: this was a j/k before any one of you get on me for being mean or something :lol )

 

[RockmanWhore]

I mean, look at Counter-Strike. In CS 1.5 the AWM/AWP had no lag in between shots if you quick switched guns. Now in 1.6 and CS: Source, there is a second of lag. When it first came out EVERYONE bitched about it, crying cause they can't pull of their overpowered no scopes from all over the map. Now the community just accepts it for what it is, everyone had to adapt to it. It didn't stop some of the community from being insanely good with the weapon either.

It's crazy how some people play with bugs/gliches and are pissed when it get fixed!

 

[polyh3dron]

Is this a joke? I don't want to unplug all my shit for a joke.

No joke here. Unless that video is somehow an elaborate hoax. If people really want to bitch that much there is an alternative.

 

[Haunted]

Don't get the reference - care to expand?

Crouch noose?
Long rope?

I'm lost too

Damn google images! Check the filenames and my previous posts for the easy solution.

 

[A.R.K]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgIFo3wp0T4

has any one on here tried this???? does it really work?

 

[Walshicus]

Check the filenames.

Oh, crouch toggle. Didn't mentally associate the second one with 'toggle'.

 

[CHRP718]

just got my uncle and two of his co workers to buy a PS3.
thanks to Killzone 2

 

[TTP]

has any one on here tried this???? does it really work?

No.

 

[The Librarian]

boy you dont wana fucking mess with me at this time when my PS3 is dead and I can't play the demo which I loved!!!!111!!!

(disclaimer: this was a j/k before any one of you get on me for being mean or something :lol )

You haven't done what I have asked.

Back away from the keyboard.

Slowly.

 

[Kaako]

Well we should be happy that it's the only issue people have with the game. It speaks volumes that absolutely nothing else of the demo has had criticism leveled at it. It's an amazing, spectacular game. Let's talk a bit more about how awesome it is.

 

[A.R.K]

No.

I almost knew it was fake..GG never said they would support K/B mouse

Thanks TTP

 

[McBacon]

Holy shit, you get these fights where you're basically pushing your front forward, and you by the end you are cheering when you move an inch forward. Fucking insane.

This game shouldn't look this good.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

upload it to youtube please

They're not up yet, but this is where they will be.

Resistance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_s6Vp6YYuY

Killzone 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODoGMjg5WEY

Holy shit, you get these fights where you're basically pushing your front forward, and you by the end you are cheering when you move an inch forward. Fucking insane.

KZ2 or this thread? :lol

 

[Boss Man]

As a proof of concept to my self for why i wasn't going to do the flick test in videos to test input lag i tried it in Gears 2 also. Again, there were non responsive flicks, like you just said. It's tougher to do there due to the design of the sticks, but if you're trying to flick it super fast, you can sometimes have it not respond.

Basic conclusion I've drawn for myself atleast is as follows.

Yes, there is lag. There is also lag in every other console game I've tried it on. When I compared KZ2 to Resistance , there was about 1 extra frame of latency on average. The end result for me is that while it is there, and if it were fixable it would be worth it to me, the way it does acceleration makes it feel like more latency than it is. By getting used to the acceleration, the latency becomes a significantly smaller issue. In the end, it's not enough to bother me enough to affect my enjoyment of the game.

I've put my videos I did of KZ2 and Resistance 2 online along with my excel file I used to compute the average delay in frame count of the video so people can see what I'm talking about. The videos are in 3g2 format and can be viewed using VLC player or Media Player Classic.

http://rapidshare.com/files/195660911/input_lag.rar.html

Great post, but you didn't provide a new non-issue for people to hold against the game. No one will watch/care about what you did. You should have said something like:
"Well, I ran some tests and it turns out there's really no "lag" in KZ2. It has virtually the same amount of latency as any other shooter. However, while I was testing I found scientific proof that Gears of War 2 is better because [insert buzz words]. Here is my video."

Only then we could have left this issue behind and bitch about something else. Oh, and by bitch I mean maintain a genteel and friendly discussion.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Great post, but you didn't provide a new non-issue for people to hold against the game. No one will watch/care about what you did. You should have said something like:
"Well, I ran some tests and it turns out there's really no "lag" in KZ2. It has virtually the same amount of latency as any other shooter. However, while I was testing I found scientific proof that Gears of War 2 is better because [insert buzz words]. Here is my video."

Only then we could have left this issue behind and bitch about something else. Oh, and my bitch I mean maintain a genteel and friendly discussion.

Hmm...On the day the KZ2 demo released, I hit a bird in my car on the way to a job interview. Perhaps I can tie those two together? That would be a pretty serious problem that should definitely be resolved before launch.

EDIT-vids still aren't working. How long does it take youtube to process videos?

 

[careksims]

That's awesome about going on the bridge and using the turrent.

Still loving the controls! Fuck the hatarade!

The game seems so far away now! Everything is slowing down! Argh! I wants it! I wants the Killzone 2!

 

[dralla]

is it just me or does Rico sounds like Duke Nukem when he's yelling in the beginning

 

[Squids]

Where was that link for the videos of Corinth River multiplayer?

 

[TTP]

Holy shit, you get these fights where you're basically pushing your front forward, and you by the end you are cheering when you move an inch forward. Fucking insane.

This game shouldn't look this good.

How far from the end are you now?

 

[andycapps]

Are we seriously counting for frames of lag? Adam Sessler was right..

 

[BlacKMaRK]

LOVE the new title change. It should make it clear THIS IS KILLZONE!! ITS NOT A COD4 CLONE!!

 

[Future PhaZe]

Jeez I hope this "lag" isn't a big deal or I may be forced to play on an SDTV. Most HDTV's already have a slight amount of lag so anything added to that would suck.

 

[____]

New Thread Title :lol

 

[McBacon]

How far from the end are you now?

I'm nearly there! Starting to regret hard mode!

 

[wotter]

Some pics from the demo as a change:

 

[TTP]

I'm nearly there! Starting to regret hard mode!

Yeah

 

[templeusox]

This game freaking rocks. I just wanted to remind people of that.

 

[sprocket]

Are we seriously counting for frames of lag? Adam Sessler was right..

mythical fanboy frames of lag at that! :lol

 

[Zeliard]

Thank you, thread title.

 

[J-Rzez]

Excellent thread title change. Could be applied to many reviews too, "Game does nothing new, so were disappointed. Also, the game doesn't play like CoD4, wtf?".

 

[Rapping Granny]

Figured out a small minor detail that's kind of cool. after the beach level, you go the warehouse, look at your footprints .

 

[Dante]

Absolute BEST title change yet! WAW thread is ==========> That way

 

[Xater]

This thread title gets two thumbs up from me. :lol

So far the thread titles were kinda hit or miss for this thread

 

[Zen]

Some pics from the demo as a change:

Wow, your TV is very... dark and red and saturated. I think my color settings might be off, because the demo area has a slightly blueish hue to it, and oddly the fire (not in the game part but in the trailer that plays at the end) has some green to it.

I might take some pictures to compare, but I think my image settings are way off, or something.

 

[UntoldDreams]

Awesome! I did it I am on the flying personal carrier in the demo!
(Took me a over a dozen tries though)

This is hilarious... I'm flying over the battlefield.

 

[cakefoo]

Results for Grand Theft Auto IV

The first thing I tried was shooting a gun in Grand Theft Auto IV for the PS3 on a plasma television. This is done with the right trigger button (R2), which feels (slightly) like pulling the trigger of a real gun.

In real life, there is zero delay between the trigger reaching the end of its travel, and the bullet leaving the gun. In GTAIV, this delay is somewhat longer. Here's the actual movie, so you can frame advance it yourself, and here are the relevant frames:

Note on the first frame (-1) , the finger is still moving, we start counting on the next frame (0) when the finger is fully on the button and the button is fully depressed. We then count until the first response, which comes at frame 12.

This indicates a response time of 12/60ths. Since it's measured on the plasma TV, we adjust this to 10/60ths. This gives us a raw response time for GTAIV of 166 ms (200 ms on flat panel TVs).

I repeated this test for turning and jumping, and got the same results. This is rather a long response time, and correlates with people reporting the game being sluggish and unresponsive. The delay in firing the gun after pulling the trigger is quite noticeable.

166ms? That's about the same I got for Killzone 2. Gee, and to think some people here WANT sluggish and unresponsive, as if it's part of the design.

 

[polyh3dron]

:bow @ new thread title

haters get killzowned.

 

[Mash]

Nice screens wotter. So what difficulty do you guys reckon I should use for my first playthrough of the demo? I played through CoD4 and Halo 3 on the hardest difficulties recently and usually go for hard or hardest how does this stack up in terms of difficulty compared?

 

[polyh3dron]

So what difficulty do you guys reckon I should use for my first playthrough of the demo?

Normal, the only one available to you.

 

[UntoldDreams]

166ms? That's about the same I got for Killzone 2. Gee, and to think some people here WANT sluggish and unresponsive, as if it's part of the design.

Dude... Unless you want to be banned stop it already.
Scratch that... I want you banned because you just won't stop.

We really don't need 10 more pages of you on some INPUT crusade.

 

[Gully State]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgIFo3wp0T4

Is this a hoax? It looks too good to be true. I'll go out and hunt for this game right now if it has mouse and keyboard support.

 

[polyh3dron]

Dude... Unless you want to be banned stop it already.
Scratch that... I want you banned because you just won't stop.

We really don't need 10 more pages of you on some INPUT crusade.

A funny tag that ties into the sentiment in our current thread title would be better imo.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

166ms? That's about the same I got for Killzone 2. Gee, and to think some people here WANT sluggish and unresponsive, as if it's part of the design.

That's considerably longer than I found with KZ2. Using 120hz camera I found that it generally took about 12.2 frames, or roughly 100ms. And this is on an LCD monitor which is scaling things (although I have never detected any delay between when it's scaling and when it is getting its native res....and I have tried).