Support NeoGAF

[chespace]

Cross-posted from my blog today:

For as much as I rail on Nintendo for their push to be innovative with their hardware, I think it's really the developers who are to blame for being uninspired and uncreative with this new paradigm.

Take a look at the DS for instance. After that other thread this weekend, it's pretty clear how I feel about the DS library thus far -- it's shit. From Mario to Meteos, there's absolutely no fucking reason why these games should be played with a stylus. But then I played Kirby DS last Friday and it really changed my outlook on the potential of a different control scheme.

Kirby DS totally rocks. At first, I threw the game back at Jeremy "ToastyFrog" Parish, disgusted that they changed the fundamental controls for a major Kirby release. But after he showed me how you're supposed to play the game, it opened up a new window for me. The entire game is "physics" driven... Kirby himself is a soft pink ball that interacts with his environment, be it bouncing off of platforms, running into enemies, or floating ever higher like a balloon. Like a red rubber ball, playing Kirby is all about controlling that perpetual motion and controls is where Hal Lab fucking nailed it. To guide Kirby along, you draw paths for him with your rainbow marker to carry his momentum. Draw a straight line under Kirby from left to right and he'll roll along to the right. Draw a line under Kirby from left to right but curve it up and away and Kirby will essentially jump at the end of the path. To use the many powers that Kirby can absorb, you simply tap him onscreen. It's incredibly simple and intuitive, but also allows for some really deep actions.

These are just impressions from like, 15 minutes with the game. I've been jonesing for it all weekend and I think I might cave and just import it (since it doesn't come out until June). But my point stands -- Nintendo's push for innovation is NOTHING if developers aren't creative with their games. Luckily, they have Hal. But they seem to have all their eggs in a precarious basket, putting developers on the spot to reinvent.

Hopefully, it pays off for them.

 

[Rhage]

That sounds awesome. when is it supposed to be released here?

guess I'll import if I have to, but blah..

 

[Whiz]

Uhm... No. Maybe in Japan Nintendogs, but no Touch! Kirby.

 

[u_neek]

Is there any kind of language barrier?

 

[acidviper]

I say Metos. Kirby seems to be like if "Touch" was a series. Yoshi Touch is the first game and Kirby is the sequel. A longer sequel.

 

[PkunkFury]

Any word on the length/difficulty of this one yet?

 

[COCKLES]

I think for 99% of devs the 2nd screen = steering wheel in driving games / map.

 

[cvxfreak]

Any word on any extras being unlocked by having Kagami no Daimeikyuu in the GBA cart?

 

[Chittagong]

Thanks for the heads up. Added to my Electroplankton preorder!

 

[jarrod]

I think for 99% of devs the 2nd screen = steering wheel in driving games / map.

Agreed. I think Nintendo would've been better off going for a larger single touchscreen.

 

[Mr. Lemming]

But then you wouldn't have a screen that isn't partially obscured by your hand scribbling furiously.

 

[chespace]

In Kirby, the action takes place on the touch screen itself. It works surprisingly well too. Haven't had any problems with my hand obscuring the action... and the game is nothing but action from beginning to end.

 

[jarrod]

But then you wouldn't have a screen that isn't partially obscured by your hand scribbling furiously.

Well that only seems to be an issue in games which use the touchscreen as a replacement for analog control mainly (Mario 64, Ridge Racer, Rayman 2, etc). With all the cash saved from going single screen, Nintendo probably could've upspecced the chipset and added dual analogs too.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Awesome. It's about time one good game came out on the system. This game sounds like what I thought Yoshi was going to be originally.

 

[olimario]

I'd like to know both US release date and language barrier. Thanks, Che.

 

[chespace]

I'd like to know both US release date and language barrier. Thanks, Che.

Kirby is import friendly (you'll figure out the menu's through trial and error) and word is, it comes out here June 13th.

I don't think I'm going to wait that long.

The U.S. title is Kirby Canvas Curse DS... hmm... don't know about that title.

 

[sprsk]

But then you wouldn't have a screen that isn't partially obscured by your hand scribbling furiously.

actually, in yoshi touch and go there are modes for left hand and right hand, so if youre a south paw like me you can actually see whats going on while you are using the touch screen. i assume kirby has a similar setup.

 

[jooey]

Slowly but surely, it seems to be working out... for Nintendo anyway; if we could just get a few hundred more fun 3rd-party games!!

 

[explodet]

Nintendo's push for innovation is NOTHING if developers aren't creative with their games.

Couldn't agree more.

Many developers would rather take what is successful on consoles (past or present) and try to apply it to handhelds because, well, let's face it, it's so much easier than trying to develop a whole new control scheme.

I think the DS needs a killer app that everyone can copy/clone in order for it to take off.

 

[mrklaw]

your description makes it sound like that cool technology demo that was posted on here a while back, where you draw on the top of a little car, and the car then goes off and drives the pattern you drew.

I think you could make that into a good little game. Puzzle/race game where you draw on the car on the bottom screen, and on the top screen a miniature version replicates the path you drew. You have to get your car through the course in the minimum number of 'goes'. Bit like minigolf crossed with car racing.

 

[Flynn]

I'm curious to hear how you feel the use of the stylus differs from Yoshi Touch and Go, which features some but not all of the physics element you spoke of.

 

[Spencerr]

I love my DS and all, and I'll pick this game up when it comes stateside, but I really think the killer apps will be Animal Crossing, the deal Squenix is working on, Mario Kart DS, etc. Online first party will help big time, everyone's always wanted Nintendo online.

That being said, there's also the Electroplanktons and Nintendogs - the "non-games" that will be big for DS.

But anyway, Kirby sounds like it owns. I was excited by the first videos of it, and it looks to play very fun.

 

[sammy]

I'm happy to hear that this game rocks - the new vids over at IGN have me drooling, and the concept of 'drawing' as the core-gameplay for a platformer has me interested.

everything about it looks so enerjetic, and I'm likely to play through it many times seeing as how there's nothing else like it anywhere.

any impressions of the animation? does it seem a bit beefier than GBA 2d???
let us know how it's still goin : P my import order is 'processing' whatever that meants - hope it gets here soon.

 

[AniHawk]

Kirby's a pretty underrated franchise. I can't think of a single game that was outright terrible. Even spinoff games like Pinball and Tilt & Tumble were well received, and they're big sellers too.

About the DS, I think everything we've been seeing were just ported in just the last couple of months, or made in a very short timespan. Super Mario 64 DS, Rayman DS, Robots, Ridge Racer fit the former, and Feel the Magic, Wario Ware DS, Yoshi Touch & Go seem to fit the latter.

Kirby was probably done with a good idea in mind from the beginning, and they were able to make a good game out of it because they had more time to develop it.

I would think that in the future, more DS games are going to be less gimmicky and more fun (or simpler to use, like Animal Crossing or a number of RPGs can be), simply because certain developers will have had more time with the system.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Kirby's a pretty underrated franchise. I can't think of a single game that was outright terrible. Even spinoff games like Pinball and Tilt & Tumble were well received, and they're big sellers too.

About the DS, I think everything we've been seeing were just ported in just the last couple of months, or made in a very short timespan. Super Mario 64 DS, Rayman DS, Robots, Ridge Racer fit the former, and Feel the Magic, Wario Ware DS, Yoshi Touch & Go seem to fit the latter.

Kirby was probably done with a good idea in mind from the beginning, and they were able to make a good game out of it because they had more time to develop it.

I would think that in the future, more DS games are going to be less gimmicky and more fun (or simpler to use, like Animal Crossing or a number of RPGs can be), simply because certain developers will have had more time with the system.

That's what I've been saying for the past 9 months since before the DS launched. :lol

As developers get more accustomed to the DS's features, you'll see better and more creative games. I was certain the games during the first six months would suck, as devs aren't just getting used to a new system's hardware, but a whole new interface, as well.

Problem is, people want results immediately, and if they don't get a killer app in the first month or two, they're going to write off or already have written off the DS as a complete failure.

People have no patience.

 

[etiolate]

Developers are really wasting the DS, especially western devs. I am hoping its just publishers trying to cash in on a new system with simple launch games, but the map screen nonsese is pathetic.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I still think the dual screens part of the DS is basically useless. The touch screen is the true innovation.

The only game that seems to truly innovate with the two screens is Advance Wars DS.

 

[goomba]

"I still think the dual screens part of the DS is basically useless. The touch screen is the true innovation."

Yeah, but the point is the extra screen IS the touchscreen. Metroid Hunters is the best use of the setup so far IMO.

 

[chespace]

I still think the dual screens part of the DS is basically useless. The touch screen is the true innovation.

The only game that seems to truly innovate with the two screens is Advance Wars DS.

This is true. Even in a good game like Kirby DS, the top screen is a really basic, boring, needless map.

 

[lexi]

Wasn't the concept of dual-screens Yamauchi's idea? And the idea for the touchscreen spawning from somewhere else?

 

[ToyMachine228]

In my opinion, the first killer app is Wario Ware: Touched...It really makes use of the Nintendo DS' features, and it's wickedly fun. Not to take away from Kirby DS of course, which looks boss.

 

[Deku]

Killer app depends on how you define it.

In terms of a system seller, Mario 64 DS probably fits that category.

What the DS really needs is for major publishers outside Nintendo, EA, Squeenix etc. to put 1 or 2 neat titles on the platform.

RTS games would rock on the DS, combine that with wifi on-line and it'd totally kick ass.

 

[Legal Step]

It's important to reference one's blog.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Killer app depends on how you define it.

In terms of a system seller, Mario 64 DS probably fits that category.

What the DS really needs is for major publishers outside Nintendo, EA, Squeenix etc. to put 1 or 2 neat titles on the platform.

RTS games would rock on the DS, combine that with wifi on-line and it'd totally kick ass.

BLIZZARD I'M LOOKING AT YOU

 

[Grubdog]

What's so bad about having an extra screen? Would you rather the top part just be silver metal? I think it's awesome they put a second screen there. Anyone complaining about the second screen on the DS is just looking for things to complain about for the sake of complaining.

Also, they can't put important things on both screens because you can't look at both screens at the same time. They could in turn based games like Advance Wars and Pokemon though.

In my opinion, the first killer app is Wario Ware: Touched...It really makes use of the Nintendo DS' features, and it's wickedly fun. Not to take away from Kirby DS of course, which looks boss.

Yep! Well I think the first killer app was Super Mario 64 DS, but Wario Ware Touched is awesome, and the best game to use to show off the DS and to get people to say "wow!".

 

[Jonnyram]

This is true. Even in a good game like Kirby DS, the top screen is a really basic, boring, needless map.

I've used the map quite a bit to help find medals, but I think that's about all I've used it for so far.

 

[Flynn]

I think the two-player ping pong game in Wario Ware is a pretty innovative use of both screens.

 

[Blackace]

Kirby is very import friendly! And just about everything Che said in his first post is true. The touch pen can open up a many different styles of gameplay, but it is useless if developers just "port" games to the system

 

[Patrick Klepek]

Kirby just proves the dual-screen part of the DS remains mostly pointless, but it's also the first game that's made me think of picking up a new DS after my last one was stolen

 

[chespace]

Playing it right now actually... just beat the first boss... wow this game gets better with each level. Just played a boss fight that's like a pinball level, but you have to draw bumpers for Kirby to bounce into an attack... and the angle with which you draw them determines his trajectory. Fun.

And yeah, I've been using the top map screen now to get coins that I'm missing too. So I guess it is helpful, if unimaginative.

What's awesome about this game is that it isn't just a collection of mini-games, although as you venture forth into the adventure mode, you unlock mini-games and bonuses you can buy. Very addictive.

 

[Littleberu]

Kirby's a pretty underrated franchise. I can't think of a single game that was outright terrible. Even spinoff games like Pinball and Tilt & Tumble were well received, and they're big sellers too.

Indeed. Even the worse of them gets better after 60 hours of gameplay!

 

[john tv]

Indeed. Even the worse of them gets better after 60 hours of gameplay!

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Blackace]

Kirby just proves the dual-screen part of the DS remains mostly pointless, but it's also the first game that's made me think of picking up a new DS after my last one was stolen

why are people complaing? first people say "the touch pen in pointless" then a game that really uses it comes out... now the dual screen is pointless? having these features can allow for some really different gameplay styles...not every game has to use all of the features.. It is nothing against you big Pat, and people who know me know I am far from a Nintendo fan boy.. But damn just let them make games that use these features first... I am just getting tired of the bellyaching...

"Damn the L button on the DS is useless only one game uses it!"

 

[AniHawk]

Indeed. Even the worse of them gets better after 60 hours of gameplay!

Ah! I knew there was one black sheep. Yes, Kirby Air Ride, that's right.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I've always had doubts about the dual screens. Never had any doubt in the uses of the touch screen & stylus

 

[Jonnyram]

and people who know me know I am far from a Nintendo fan boy..

Oh, come on. You're a NINTHING Pigmen like the rest of 'em!

 

[Blackace]

Oh, come on. You're a NINTHING Pigmen like the rest of 'em!

hahaha Shut up you Sony whore!

 

[Alcibiades]

why are people complaing? first people say "the touch pen in pointless" then a game that really uses it comes out... now the dual screen is pointless? having these features can allow for some really different gameplay styles...not every game has to use all of the features.. It is nothing against you big Pat, and people who know me know I am far from a Nintendo fan boy.. But damn just let them make games that use these features first... I am just getting tired of the bellyaching...

"Damn the L button on the DS is useless only one game uses it!"

I agree, why can't there be just regular games in which companies use the DS as an upgraded GBA?

Sure Nintendo has promised new gameplay styles, and those are definitely being released by them and some others (Sega, Bandai, etc...), but a game should also be judged for what it is, not what features it doesn't take advantage of.

To be honest, I'm perfectly happy if the 2nd screen is a map screen 90% of the time. It's not revolutionary, but it's definitely helpful and a positive use of the screen for convenience.

Some games may use all the features, some may use none, what's the big deal if not every DS game uses all the features. I'm happy using the DS to play GBA games, so using the DS to play GBA-style games made solely for the purpose of taking advantage of the better graphics and 4 face buttons would be a fine for me, and I hope companies do that (maybe stuff like the Megaman X Zero and Wario Land franchises would benefit).

 

[BorkBork]

Nintendo really needs to make a full game out of that submarine demo they had at E3. Now that was a good use of both screens, turning the bottom screen into a full control panel with dials and levers. Anyone else think that the DS would be well suited for something like a flight simulator?

 

[GaimeGuy]

Nintendo really needs to make a full game out of that submarine demo they had at E3. Now that was a good use of both screens, turning the bottom screen into a full control panel with dials and levers. Anyone else think that the DS would be well suited for something like a flight simulator?

Agreed about the submarine demo.

Give us Pilotwings DS.