Koei Tecmo: ‘Switch 2 Is Closer to the Series S Than PS4’
kevboard
Member
I have no data on this, show source for these pixel counts.
and NO dev statements aren't enough. we all know developers will tell you something is 4k only to then find out it's actually 1080p using FSR2 to reconstruct to 4k... or even just the HUD being the claimed resolution while the rest renders at a lower one.
example of this is Yakuza Zero on Switch 2, which is clearly 1080p (very easy to pixel count and verify yourself in fact) yet Sega claimed ahead of launch it's 4K. they have since backpedalled tho I think and are transparent abou it being 1080p, but there are even reviewers still spreading this misinformation in their reviews.
independent pixel counts from independent sources plz
EDIT:
I was curious, looked for decent enough youtube videos of it, and found it to run below 800p (~792p) generally. with 1 count coming in at 720p in the hub world.
Ruler = 30 pixels
Counted Steps = 11 maybe 12 if we are generous)
11÷30×2160=792p
12÷30×2160=864p
Ruler = 30 pixels
Counted Steps = 10
10÷30×2160=720p
SOURCE:
same as above,source?
Switch 2 is 720p 30fps using DLSS to reconstruct to 1440p (Source: DF), also uses PS4 assets + slightly better textures, and not Series S assets.
source?
source?
Switch is 720p 30fps (Source: DF) with DLSS to 1440p. and I assume the 40fps mode is 540p to 1080p. but I think they do use some dynamic scaling.
again, source? but even if these numbers are correct, the Series S has raytracing and nanite enabled, Switch 2 doesn't. settings are PS4 equivalent.
Switch 2 Handheld < PS4 < Switch 2 Docked < PS4 Pro < Series S
there's zero data proving otherwise.
if better image quality through DLSS counts as more powerful then my RTX3060ti would be more powerful than the PS5 Pro GPU, but noone in their right mind would claim that. can I get a better looking and smoother experience in some games than a PS5 Pro? yup... does that mean my GPU is more powerful? nope, it doesn't.
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Musashipan
Member
That can't be right! The specialists from this forum said that the SW2 is ps3 level power!
Who has more credibility? KT or specialists ?
Who has more credibility? KT or specialists ?
Nioh 3 demo looks like a ps3 game at best. It looks horrible.
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The system has been released.
Nintendo Switch 2 game performances have far exceeded PS4 and surpassed PS4 Pro in terms of IQ and performance.
Nice logic right there, so according to you, Nintendo Switch 2 utilizing tensor cores for DLSS upscaling is considered cheating and should never be taken into power comparison despite DLSS taking GPU resources and load to utilize it for the games.
According to your logic, the PS4 version is superior because it has more pixel counts than the Switch 2 version.
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kevboard
Member
I never said anything like this no.
I say that you can't call one GPU more powerful than another simply because it has 1 feature the other doesn't have.
again, noone in their right mind would say that the RTX3060ti is on par with the PS5 Pro's GPU, yet in some games you can get equivalent or better results due to DLSS.
and what about games that do not use DLSS? Sonic x Shadow Generations runs at around 720p in its performance mode. DLSS doesn't help that fact does it? why? because the game doesn't use it.
so there you'll just have to accept that the Switch 2 is 720p 60fps and the Series S is 1080p 60fps, essentially double the resolution.
DLSS also didn't help Yakuza 0, which is 1080p 60fps, exactly the same as the PS4
the same is true for my 3060ti... does it help me that I have DLSS when a game doesn't support it? nope... in those cases the PS5 Pro will simply outclass my GPU. does it help me if a game has DLSS but the implementation suck? again, no.
and that's not even getting into the topic that DLSS at low resolutions has downsides. yes it can look amazing in certain moments, but it can also break apart just as easily once too much motion comes into play, or there's elements that lack motion vectors etc.
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FalconPunch
Member
Cyberpunk that runs at 60fps on series S and can't even hold 40fps on switch with lower than low traffic, pedestrian etc? I have cyberpunk on the Switch 2. It's closer to the ps4 than it is to the series S.
DLSS can not cover up that many flaws.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
The Switch 2 version of Hogwarts is closer in feature-set and visual parity to Series S than it is to PS4. Switch 2 doesn't have loading screens in between large areas, it's seamless just like it is on current-gen, while yes a small portion of assets are bespoke, etc. And then when you look at Cyberpunk, it's not even close, PS4 shouldn't even come up, because there's no comparison. It's nearly equivalent to Series S. Which for a mobile device, is incredible.
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kevboard
Member
nope. it uses almost exclusively PS4 assets, with the big improvement being higher res textures. the 3D model assets used are clearly the PS4 equivalent ones however
nope again. it has essentially the same load screens as the PS4 version afaik
and by that you mean... it's 99% PS4 assets and some minor adjustments like 1 bridge having open windows now?
it runs at half the framerate of the Series S at a lower internal resolution. or at the same framerate and about 1/3 the resolution (depending on mode).
and what is half the GPU performance of a Series S? the answer is: slightly better than PS4 performance
meanwhile, Street Fighter 6 running at 720p internal at 30fps in World Tour fights. on Series S this is 1080p internal at 60fps
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Pop
Member
Wheres the dlss magic
GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
i never mades that i think bugger loop
Kataploom
Gold Member
If PS4 is 0 and XSS is 100, Switch 2 would fall anywhere between between 51 and 99.
I'd put it at around 80 is graphics alone, in terms of CPU it's clearly inferior enough to not being able to handle CP2077 at 60 like the XSS but it games are now GPU bound then the differences will be reduced a lot or o even have some better features than XSS if memory is a bottleneck.
That's my assumption so far.
Bojji
Member
Sonic X Shadow Generation
Switch 2 - Performance mode - 1080p/60fps
PS4 - 1080p/30fps
Civilization 7
Switch 2 - Quality mode - 4k/30fps , performance mode - 1080p/60fps
PS4 - 1080p/30fps
Hogwarts Legacy
Switch 2 - 1440p/30fps
PS4 - 900p/30fps
Suikoden Remaster
Switch 2 - 1440p/60fps
PS4 - 1080p/30fps
No Man's Sky
Switch 2 - 1440p/40fps
PS4 - 1080p/40fps
Cyberpunk 2077
Switch 2 - 1080p/40fps(IQ is another league in comparison to PS4 and above PS4pro)
PS4 - 810p/30fps
Fortnite
Switch 2- 1224p/60fps
PS4 - 900p/60fps
SF6
Switch 2 version IQ > XSS
In term of power
PS4 = Switch 2(Handheld) < PS4 pro < Switch 2(Docked) < XSS
Most of those are native resolutions on PS4 vs. TARGET resolutions on SW2 (after heavy upscaling).
PS4 base of PS4 Pro? I think it's closer to the PS4 Pro than the XSS
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Kataploom
Gold Member
I was talking about base PS4. It's tricky to compare raw power because PS4 Pro is, in theory more powerful than XSS, but XSS had a more modern architecture, I'd say in terms of actual results on screen you might be right, but Switch 2 is still too new to know, Cyberpunk looks more comparable to XSS than any last gen version and SF6 and Hogwarts Legacy is a mix of both, imo I'm happy with the performance so far and that's what matters to me as a game, as a nerd I really want to see the potential asap lol
CartesianMan
Member
Koei Tecmo: 'Switch 2 Is Closer to the Series S Than PS4' - yes in docked mode. The challenge for devs is how Switch 2 to not drain the batteries in 10 min.
So I expect a big differences between docked and handled modes. And that is costly - so less support for Switch 2 from big devs.
So I expect a big differences between docked and handled modes. And that is costly - so less support for Switch 2 from big devs.
kazuyamishima
Member
Oh great another system to hold on the PS5 and Xbox Series X
Baemono
Member
This is not true. I'm playing the game for hours, NPC count is high (or at least normal) and so is the traffic.
There are some bugs (like nobody talks for 20-30 seconds and you can't do anything), but besides that no issue at all.
I don't know if the leaked footage showing empty streets was pre-patch but I had to install a day one patch when I launched it
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Baemono
Member
The PS4 can't handle open world games at 60fps, the Switch can, even in handheld mode
Sebastian1295
Member
Ok i take back what i said then lol. Maybe the patch solved it or the leaked footage was fake? Hmm it's definitely interesting tbh. I'm glad that it's running good on the switch 2 though.
Baemono
Member
I don't think it was fake but honestly I was expecting to see the same stuff than in the video, and I didn't (and the cars have also weird behaviour, sometimes they just stay there even there is a green light, you have to force your way)
peish
Member
I mean the ps4 cpu was shit in 2013…
| Specification | Xbox Series S | PlayStation 4 | Nintendo Switch 2 |
|---|---|---|---|
| CPU | AMD Zen 2 @ 3.6GHz | AMD Jaguar @ 1.6GHz | Nvidia T239 ARM Cortex A78C |
| Geekbench 6 CPU Score | ~1,410 (Single-Core) / ~7,930 (Multi-Core) | ~197 (Single-Core) / ~990 (Multi-Core) | ~446 (Single-Core) / ~1,409 (Multi-Core) |
| GPU | AMD RDNA 2 @ 1.565GHz (4 TFLOPS) | AMD GCN (1.84 TFLOPS) | Nvidia Ampere, 1,536 CUDA Cores |
| Computed GPU TFLOPS | 4.0 | 1.84 | 3.07 (Docked) / 1.71 (Handheld) |
| ROP Count | 32 | 32 | Estimated 48 |
| Texture Fill Rate | ~125.2 GT/s | ~57.6 GT/s | ~48.3 GT/s (Docked) / ~26.9 GT/s (Handheld) |
| Pixel Fill Rate | ~50.1 GP/s | ~25.6 GP/s | ~48.3 GP/s (Docked) / ~26.9 GP/s (Handheld) |
| RAM | 10GB GDDR6 | 8GB GDDR5 | 12GB LPDDR5X |
| Memory Bandwidth | 8GB @ 224GB/s + 2GB @ 56GB/s | 176GB/s | 102GB/s (Docked) / 68GB/s (Handheld) |
| Storage | 512GB PCIe Gen 4 SSD | 500GB/1TB HDD | 256GB UFS + microSD Express |
| Resolution | Up to 1440p @ 120Hz | 1080p @ 30–60Hz | 4K HDR (Docked) / 1080p @ 120Hz (Handheld) |
| Backward Compatibility | Xbox One, 360, Original Xbox | Limited PS3/PS2 (PlayStation Now) | Most Switch games |
| Optical Drive | No (Digital Only) | Yes (Blu-ray/DVD) | No (Cartridge-based) |
| Wi-Fi | Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac) | Wi-Fi 4 (802.11n) | Wi-Fi 6 |
| USB Ports | 3× USB 3.1 | 2× USB 3.0 | 2× USB-C |
| Ethernet | Yes | Yes | Yes (Docked) |
| Game Library | Xbox Game Pass, Backward-Compatible Titles | Large PS4 Exclusive Library | Nintendo Exclusives, BC Titles |
| Weight | 2.1kg | 2.8kg | 0.88kg (Handheld), 1.18kg (w/ Joy-Con 2s) |
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Simpdimples
Member
well koei tecmo technical skill is closer to ps3 than series x. i mean theres no doubt that Switch 2 is a solid tablet regardless.
Darkness_Arises
Member
I love to live in this world where devs can just add DLSS to a 1440p image and reach 4k resolution for free, without changing the render time budget on a tensor core starved mobile SoC.
Boy bawang
Member
Ok that's nice of them to say that but let me explain you why that's wrong even though I'm a terminally online basement dweller who never worked with the hardware.
Unknown Soldier
Member
You think Nintendo would just put the DLSS on without looking at the performance effect and refuse to adjust other rendering loads in the pipeline to compensate?
Sonic X Shadow Generation
Switch 2 - Performance mode - 1080p/60fps
PS4 - 1080p/30fps
Civilization 7
Switch 2 - Quality mode - 4k/30fps , performance mode - 1080p/60fps
PS4 - 1080p/30fps
Hogwarts Legacy
Switch 2 - 1440p/30fps
PS4 - 900p/30fps
Suikoden Remaster
Switch 2 - 1440p/60fps
PS4 - 1080p/30fps
No Man's Sky
Switch 2 - 1440p/40fps
PS4 - 1080p/40fps
Cyberpunk 2077
Switch 2 - 1080p/40fps(IQ is another league in comparison to PS4 and above PS4pro)
PS4 - 810p/30fps
Fortnite
Switch 2- 1224p/60fps
PS4 - 900p/60fps
SF6
Switch 2 version IQ > XSS
In term of power
PS4 = Switch 2(Handheld) < PS4 pro < Switch 2(Docked) < XSS
Yep, i want to also add to this that civilization is also supporting large maps unlike ps4.
Also, the graphic set of that game matches the Medium pc specs in terms of settings
People should also stop using bad optimized games as an example on what the system can do. We have already proof which is cyberpunk. The perfect benchmark test.
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The Switch 2 has a much faster CPU and storage system, so when you are bottlenecked by these aspects, you will see a bigger increase than the difference in GPU power.
kikii
Member
neogaf trust clickbait more then devs now ahahahah
Internal rendering resolution doesn't matter much when the output IQ outclasses the native res by a good margin.
Most of those are native resolutions on PS4 vs. TARGET resolutions on SW2 (after heavy upscaling).
Most PS4 games are not maintaining at the target resolution. CP2077 PS4 dropped to 720p in most of cases.
We are in the era of post processing/Machine upscaler and DLSS is sitting at the top of the hierarchy. DLSS version that Switch 2 is currently using by far producing much better visual clarity than PS4 version in all games.
Switch 2 DLSS low internal rendering resolution >> PS4 blurry native resolution.
There are many visual comparisons available on YouTube where Switch 2 version of games producing much better visual IQ than PS4 pro. PS4 is in another league below Switch 2.
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Zathalus
Member
The specs of the Switch 2 are not some classified information that nobody knows. It's basically half the power of the Series S (even less on the CPU side) when docked with more VRAM and DLSS.
The comparisons we have so far prove this, some games are closer to the Series S version, while others are closer to the PS4 version.
The comparisons we have so far prove this, some games are closer to the Series S version, while others are closer to the PS4 version.
We have seen that a lot of people were wrong when it comes to mobile specs. Specially when it comes to ARM proccessor.
Same issues we did notice with switch 1 games.
The actual thing that matters here is the thing that we should base on : results
The first results of games that were created on switch 2 (which are still launch games, while on ps4 it were end of generation games) already proofs its above ps4 pro quality and below series s (except the image quality which is above series s).
Keep in mind that nintendo is working on to free even more ram & an extra core. This is just the beginning.
Do i expect to be better as series s? no, Do i expect the dock experience is going to be above ps4 pro => Yes, it's already proven it's the case.
Handheld experience is closer to ps4 pro. But not above ps4 pro.
That's the way it is. That's what the optimized games are showing. And again, we are just in the begin fase.
Man you will have settle to a rude awake if you are so convinced.
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I have great doubt honestly.
Hyet
Member
As a portable console or as a stationay device that has to be plugged on a wall to work? Maybe it takes time to miniaturize technology? WHO KNEW!
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Dampf
Member
Yeah those two games especially. Fortnite doesn't use lumen and Hogwarts has last gen assets. That definately makes it much closer to PS4 than Series S.
However, textures and image quality are ahead of Series S in most games. So I guess its better in some ways and worse in others.
Baemono
Member
What about Split Fiction or Borderlands 4 then ?
Dampf
Member
No it absolutely isn't. I made a whole thread about here:
Specifically, I'm talking about this video
There they said they are using the next gen assets (next gen means current gen obviously) on the Switch 2 instead of starting from the Switch 1 version.
But if you analyse the final game, you will find out it pretty much uses the last gen assets across the board. In this comparison, you can see how many assets are missing (which is an exact match for the last gen version)
This is just a tiny example, there are differences like that across the whole game. DF made a...
There they said they are using the next gen assets (next gen means current gen obviously) on the Switch 2 instead of starting from the Switch 1 version.
But if you analyse the final game, you will find out it pretty much uses the last gen assets across the board. In this comparison, you can see how many assets are missing (which is an exact match for the last gen version)
This is just a tiny example, there are differences like that across the whole game. DF made a...
Assets are last gen and you have the same last gen optimizations in place (like sealed off gangways).
The statement in the thread title comes from a producer at Koei Tecmo with a hand on Nintendo Switch 2 projects, not from a deluded Nintendo fan.
Dampf
Member
To be clear, I think the Switch 2 is closer to Series S because it has a much faster CPU, more RAM and faster storage and also a GPU with a modern featureset. It's just that in these two games (Fortnite and Hogwarts) it's much closer to PS4. Due to that it should get less demanding current gen titles as well.
Star Wars Outlaws is an outlier here, so I'm interested to see how that pans out.
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