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[Officerrob]

Really? How on earth do you arrive at this? This logic that every feature that a console ships with is proof of a focus of the hardware maker is so faulty it's not even worth addressing.

Simple logic? You don't build something into the controller if it's not going to be a focus.

 

[Orca]

Pretty sure it was PS All Stars. lol or LBP Kartz...

I think Wonderbook got more ads, but I don't think either sold all that well anyway.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Why are people celebrating this post as if it were insightful? It's rather trite and makes assumptions that are still debatable.

All he said is that Microsoft isn't going to ditch the controller for kinect anytime soon and everybody wants our money. Whats debatable about that?

 

[Officerrob]

Sony's PS3's effort in 2012 was probably hindered by the release of PSVita. Looking back now they launched a new system with a lot of games and some smaller PS3 projects as well. Later on that year, they decided to focus on the younger crowd and that strategy didn't work for them.

None of their major first party developers have made games for the Vita

 

[Flatline]

Bluray drive. Major focus. Touchpad. Major focus. Light bar. Major focus. Share button. Major focus. They all combine to make up the larger PS4 experience. How is that so hard to grasp? The PS4 is a lesser device without any of them, thus they're built into every PS4/Controller.

Streaming service. Major focus. Knack. Major focus. Infamous. Major focus. Killzone. Major focus. Social media. Major focus. Cerny. Major focus. DS4. Major focus. Literally everything in the conference was major focus.

YOU GET A MAJOR FOCUS AND YOU GET A MAJOR FOCUS, EVERYONE GETS A MAJOR FOCUS!

 

[Baconsammy]

Sony's PS3's effort in 2012 was probably hindered by the release of PSVita. Looking back now they launched a new system with a lot of games and some smaller PS3 projects as well. Later on that year, they decided to focus on the younger crowd and that strategy didn't work for them.

In what way? I can't think of a single one of Sony's major studios that spent time on a Vita release outside of Clap Hanz.

Streaming service. Major focus. Knack. Major focus. Infamous. Major focus. Killzone. Major focus. Cerny. Major focus. DS4. Major focus. Literally everything in the conference was major focus.

YOU GET A MAJOR FOCUS AND YOU GET A MAJOR FOCUS, EVERYONE GETS A MAJOR FOCUS!

Exactly. Why would you spend time on something you didn't give a shit about. "Hey guys, we completely redesigned out Dual Shock controller to include a light bar and a touchpad, but honestly they're shit and we'd rather not discuss them. When you buy a unit, just pretend they dont exist. Thanks. Now here's Wonderbook 2." What dunce of a company dedicates time to stuff they dont want you to focus on? "Please press, we're going to show you something, but please dont make a big deal out of it. It's really nothing...but we're going to talk 10 minutes about it anyway."

 

[SniperHunter]

None of their major first party teams have made games for the Vita

Yea but the Sony gaming division blew a lot of money on Vita. R&D, first party game development, marketing, production etc. All that bit into PS3 software production, so they launched smaller titles for the younger crowd and it didn't work out for them.

Here is what Sony released in 2012 according to wiki

Jak and Daxter Collection PS3
Twisted Metal PS3
Little Deviants Vita
Uncharted: Golden Abyss Vita
Escape Plan Vita
Hot Shots Golf: World International Vita
ModNation Racers: Road Trip Vita
Super Stardust Delta Vita
Wipeout 2048 Vita
MLB 12: The Show PS3 & Vita
MotorStorm: RC Vita
Unit 13 Vita
Journey PS3
Reality Fighters Vita
Starhawk PS3
Sorcery Move PS3
Resistance: Burning Skies PSVita
Gravity Rush Vita
Ratchet & Clank Collection PS3
LittleBigPlanet PS Vita
Tokyo Jungle PSN
Killzone HD PS3
The Unfinished Swan PSN
LittleBigPlanet Karting PS3
Wonderbook: Book of Spells PS3
PlanetSide 2 Windows
Ratchet & Clank: Full Frontal Assault PSN

Vita itself probably took a big chuck of the development budget. Maybe they planned to launch Resistance 4 in fall, but the series died prematurely...

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

How would it know to switch player positions in multiplayer same-screen games if it wasn't interfacing with the camera? I'm not sure I follow.
.

Your right that doesn't make sense without it sensing the camera. Good point

 

[Officerrob]

Streaming service. Major focus. Knack. Major focus. Infamous. Major focus. Killzone. Major focus. Social media. Major focus. Cerny. Major focus. DS4. Major focus. Literally everything in the conference was major focus.

YOU GET A MAJOR FOCUS AND YOU GET A MAJOR FOCUS, EVERYONE GETS A MAJOR FOCUS!

How many of those are built into the hardware?

 

[Flatline]

How many of those are built into the hardware?

So it's not about the conference it's about what's built in the hardware now? Move certainly isn't. So, not major focus?

Exactly. Why would you spend time on something you didn't give a shit about. "Hey guys, we completely redesigned out Dual Shock controller to include a light bar and a touchpad, but honestly they're shit and we'd rather not discuss them. When you buy a unit, just pretend they dont exist. Thanks. Now here's Wonderbook 2." What dunce of a company dedicates time to stuff they dont want you to focus on? "Please press, we're going to show you something, but please dont make a big deal out of it. It's really nothing...but we're going to talk 10 minutes about it anyway."

You do realize that the word major loses its meaning when you list a hundred different things that are supposedly major focus, right?

 

[Baconsammy]

Your right that doesn't make sense without it sensing the camera. Good point

Yeah, the other guy is taking issue with my statement that it senses the light in a 3D space. He may be right since I can't find what I thought I had read months ago. It may be the 2nd camera that they added that I'm confusing it with that is used to create a 3d space. For some reason I'm remembering that they mentioned the light being important in determining where you are in the 3d field because in the dark they wouldnt be able to find you with the cameras since it doesnt use IR like Kinect.

 

[Officerrob]

So it's not about the conference it's about what's built in the hardware now? Move certainly isn't. So, not major focus?

You are ALL over the place. Go back and look at the Baconsammy post you quoted, it specifically says, "thus they're built into every PS4/Controller". Weren't you the one yelling at people for not actually reading what was posted?

 

[Flatline]

You are ALL over the place. Go back and look at the Baconsammy post you quoted, it specifically says, "thus they're built into every PS4/Controller". Weren't you the one yelling at people for not actually reading what was posted?

Sony has made clear that the controller can't be used like/replace the Move, it's more accurate than sixaxis but that's it. Baconsammy is wrong.

 

[Kyoufu]

Going by the logic used here, Sixaxis is a major focus because every controller has it.

 

[Basil]

I hope R Lee Ermey plays Major Focus in the movie.

 

[Baconsammy]

Sony has made clear that the controller can't be used like the Move, it's more accurate than sixaxis but that's it. Baconsammy is wrong.

They said it cant be used as a wand, like the Move for obvious reasons. They've very clearly said it can be used in conjunction with the camera to detect the light just like the Move. Baconsammy is right. And delicious.

 

[Uno Venova]

Going by the logic used here, Sixaxis is a major focus because every controller has it.

And I don't understand how that can be, looking at the definition of the word.

 

[Flatline]

They said it cant be used as a wand, like the Move for obvious reasons. They've very clearly said it can be used in conjunction with the camera to detect the light just like the Move. Baconsammy is right. And delicious.

So it's not Move, it's just a more accurate sixaxis just like a I said?

 

[Baconsammy]

So it's not Move, it's just a more accurate sixaxis just like a I said?

Sixaxis had a light on it that required a camera?

It wasn't in the beginning? It wasn't shoehorned into games where it had no business being?

Oh god dont remind us. The log walking in Uncharted 1. And the grenade tossing. Oy. But yeah, it was a huge deal to them. So big that they tried to give it a clever, memorable name. People love palindromes.

 

[Officerrob]

Going by the logic used here, Sixaxis is a major focus because every controller has it.

It wasn't in the beginning? It wasn't shoehorned into games where it had no business being?

 

[Flatline]

I hope R Lee Ermey plays Major Focus in the movie.

There's not just one Major Focus, there are hundreds if not thousands. They're a legion.

 

[Uno Venova]

It wasn't in the beginning? It wasn't shoehorned into games where it had no business being?

Into dragon's lair, but had a small role in every other game.

 

[Flatline]

Sixaxis had a light on it that required a camera?

No it didn't, that's why it's less accurate. The fact is that DS4 can't replace Move and can't play Move games so no matter how much you spin it is not Move.

 

[Baconsammy]

No it didn't, that's why it's less accurate. The fact is that DS4 can't replace Move and can't play Move games no matter how much you spin it.

For a guy that whines about people not reading posts, find where I said the light on the back of the new DS4 was intended to replace the Move controller.

 

[Flatline]

For a guy that whines about people not reading posts, find where I said the light on the back of the new DS4 was intended to replace the Move controller.

You're the one not reading posts. This is a continuation of the discussion started when Officerrob pretty much implied that Move is part of the hardware because DS4 has a light. You then continued that argument until its conclusion in the post I'm quoting right now where you suddenly retroactively decided that DS4 is indeed not a Move replacement.

 

[dragonbane]

Yeah, the other guy is taking issue with my statement that it senses the light in a 3D space. He may be right since I can't find what I thought I had read months ago. It may be the 2nd camera that they added that I'm confusing it with that is used to create a 3d space. For some reason I'm remembering that they mentioned the light being important in determining where you are in the 3d field because in the dark they wouldnt be able to find you with the cameras since it doesnt use IR like Kinect.

I think they just use the light so they know which object in the room actually is a controller

Of course it's a nice bonus that it works in the dark too. But I'm pretty sure it just tracks the 2D position (up/down, left/right movements). That's all they need for basic UI control, split screen detection, sixaxis movements etc.

When they use 3D tracking it basically becomes a less accurate Move controller. Which seems like a stupid thing to do, because then devs have to program for both an accurate device and a not so accurate device. Of course they could only support the Move controller for their game, but then 3D tracking becomes completely pointless in the DS4. I think technically it should be possible with the camera, but I don't think they are going to implement it.


In short:

DS4 = sixaxis, but actually works + can be used for UI control, player identification, player feedback (health), split screen detection and other stuff depending on the developer
Move = 3D tracking, used for exclusive motion controlled games and as a separate control input for several games (FPS, sculpting with MM game)

 

[onQ123]

Steps back slowly looks at the sign on the door of the thread: hmmm someone must have switched the signs on the door because it says 'Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]' but I clearly walked into a PlayStation Controller Meeting.

 

[Officerrob]

You're the one not reading posts. This is a continuation of the discussion started when Officerrob pretty much implied that Move is part of the hardware because DS4 has a light. You then continued that argument until its conclusion in the post I'm quoting right now where you suddenly retroactively decided that DS4 is indeed not a Move replacement.

What the hell are you talking about? When I was originally talking about stuff being built into the hardware, I was referring to the touchpad. Baconsammy and I were replying to "140.85" who was talking about the touchpad

 

[Baconsammy]

I think they just use the light so they know which object in the room actually is a controller

Of course it's a nice bonus that it works in the dark too. But I'm pretty sure it just tracks the 2D position (up/down, left/right movements). That's all they need for basic UI control, split screen detection, sixaxis movements etc.

When they use 3D tracking it basically becomes a less accurate Move controller. Which seems like a stupid thing to do, because then devs have to program for both an accurate device and a not so accurate device. Of course they could only support the Move controller for their game, but then 3D tracking becomes completely pointless in the DS4. I think technically it should be possible with the camera, but I don't think they are going to implement it.

I found something similar to what I mentioned earlier from Arstechnica:

Sony has also revealed a bit more about the Playstation 4's Eye, and how games might use the peripheral's dual cameras. Developers will be able to adjust the level of exposure and other parameters on each camera, so for instance, one camera can use high exposure for augmented reality in a dimly-lit room, while the other can use low exposure to track light from the Playstation Move or PS4 controller.

Essentially creating a 3D space the best it can without IR using the light to identify where you are in that 3D space. How well it then tracks it wasn't mentioned. I hope they show more about it.

Steps back slowly looks at the sign on the door of the thread: hmmm someone must have switched the signs on the door because it says 'Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]' but I clearly walked into a PlayStation Controller Meeting.

Weird how that happens in Durango threads, eh?

 

[dragonbane]

I found something similar to what I mentioned earlier from Arstechnica:



Essentially creating a 3D space the best it can without IR using the light to identify where you are in that 3D space. How well it then tracks it wasn't mentioned. I hope they show more about it.

Oh it is definitely very interesting. The fact they are using a stereo camera this time says it all. The PS3 eye is absolutely enough for tracking a object in 3D space, so of course they are doing something more/different with the PS4 in terms of motion controls. It is a focus. I just don't think they will track the DS4 in 3D space, just seems pointless. But we'll see soon I hope.

 

[Flatline]

What the hell are you talking about? When I was originally talking about stuff being built into the hardware, I was referring to the touchpad. Baconsammy and I were replying to "140.85" who was talking about the touchpad

So let's get back to the original question I asked. Since Baconsammy agrees now that DS4 isn't a replacement for Move, Move isn't major focus because it's not built in the hardware, right?

 

[Baconsammy]

So let's get back to the original question I asked. Since Baconsammy agrees now that DS4 isn't a replacement for Move, Move isn't major focus because it's not built in the hardware, right?

Ah OK, so really just a troll afterall. Into the ignore file. Bye.

Well, you know what they say about people who see things when no one else does.

They're handsome?

 

[Wynnebeck]

Weird how that happens in Durango threads, eh?

Well, you know what they say about people who see things when no one else does.

 

[Flatline]

Ah OK, so really just a troll afterall. Into the ignore file. Bye.

It is obvious that you're both trying to avoid answering a simple question. At first you were trying to convince us that Move was a major focus but then you said that everything build in the hardware in major focus (thus excluding Move). It seems that everything about the hardware and conference is major focus according to you, in other words you're pretty much defined everything we know and everything PS4 is as top priority for Sony so that you can cherry pick the top priorities that fit your narrative (btw when everything is major focus nothing is actually major focus). I'm done with this nonsensical discussion.

 

[shinobi602]

They showed five first party games/things, Knack, Killzone, InFamous, Drive Club, and that MM Move thing. I don't know the exactly times, but I think the MM Move thing got the most time out of all of those

Right. I would say the fact of all the games shown only one was Move was telling. It's a good thing to me.

 

[StudioTan]

I don't know, it lasted maybe, 10 minutes or so? out of a 2 hr+ conference.

The Killzone 4 segment was 9 minutes, the Move section was 7 minutes, Infamous Second Son was 4 minutes. They were all prominent as they were all the focus for a few minutes.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

What I'm concerned about with the light on the DS4 is that it'll reflect off of the TV screen and piss me off

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Ahh I see what you are. A goalpost mover. Someone shoots down one of your fallacies, so you move to another. Good riddance.

No kidding. It's like one issue after another with that guy.

I think Wonderbook got more ads, but I don't think either sold all that well anyway.

Neither did Starhawk or Twisted Metal. I expect Sony will also start to pull back on ip's, In fact they already are by letting go some of their studios as of late.

I'm not talking about #1 in units sold(console or software). I'm talking about #1 in revenue generated(I should have made that clearer). And yes, as Sony and MS's financials would indicate, MS's strategy is by far the better of the two. They're both in this business to make money. Not to see who can sell the most units. If that were the case, they'd give them away.

Which is what Sony almost did with the PS3. It had more price drops at a faster rate and redesigns than the others to remain competitive. They don't seem to be able to afford Vita to get reduced around the globe to help spur sales.

Well that's because their strategy was effective. I'm sure if Move was successful they would talk about it like they did the year of its release. They're probably not gonna talk about vita much either.

Exactly. If Move had the same success as Kinect they too would be talking about it more. Do you even hear Sony comment on NPD sales in recent memory? The same thing with Microsoft about worldwide sales, their focus is mainly on the U.S. market when they talk sales figures. Each will highlight their strengths and the Move is not their strong point.

 

[jayu26]

What I'm concerned about with the light on the DS4 is that it'll reflect off of the TV screen and piss me off

Not a big problem with actual move controller for PS3.

 

[Satchel]

Your right that doesn't make sense without it sensing the camera. Good point

I'm fairly confident the camera will be packed in.

Personally? I have zero issue with that. Anyone who,plans on buying Singstar PS4 should want that camera.

 

[Codeblew]

I didn't come from any gaming forum in particular. I started lurking after the Adam Orth incident, signed up for an account, and did my waiting. During that time it was painfully clear to see the narrative that GAF loves to portray about Microsoft and the one they portray about Sony.

Wow, it took you like 3 weeks to get an account? It took me like 6 months.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I've only had my account activated so I haven't yet been able to contribute much to the PS3, Durango conversation, but I have been lurking for awhile.

Welcome, you seem like a reasonable person, something we're in dire need of.

Why are people celebrating this post as if it were insightful? It's rather trite and makes assumptions that are still debatable.

Talk about irony... But if you want to debate those "debatable assumptions", let's hear what they are first.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Your right that doesn't make sense without it sensing the camera. Good point

Yeah, but that feature could just be optional.

The rumor now is that the camera is not packed in. When Sony increased the RAM to 8GB of GDDR5, the camera got the axe.

 

[Aquamarine]

You're the one not reading posts. This is a continuation of the discussion started when Officerrob pretty much implied that Move is part of the hardware because DS4 has a light. You then continued that argument until its conclusion in the post I'm quoting right now where you suddenly retroactively decided that DS4 is indeed not a Move replacement.

So let's get back to the original question I asked. Since Baconsammy agrees now that DS4 isn't a replacement for Move, Move isn't major focus because it's not built in the hardware, right?

Pro tip: stop putting words in people's mouths. You want to bring up another poster? Reply to them directly.

I've only had my account activated so I haven't yet been able to contribute much to the PS3, Durango conversation, but I have been lurking for awhile.

That said the way I've seen GAF react to each companies consoles is when Sony said "We're going to be the number one place for games, social networking and entertainment" people go OMG SONY IS ONLY ABOUT GAMES, THEY LOVE US GAMERS, but when Microsoft says "We want Durango to be the games, TV, and entertainment center of the living room" people scream OMG MS IS FOCUSING ON ENTERTAINMENT. THEYVE ABANDONED US GAMERS. Obviously I'm using hyperbole, but that's just what I've observed.

It's fascinating how a brief shift in Microsoft's late-era Xbox 360 strategy to reign in casuals...has produced such a widespread misconception that Microsoft "doesn't care about gamers."

 

[Angelus Errare]

We should totally revisit all these threads in like 3 years and make fun of all the warriors.

 

[benny_a]

Is the DS4 light a bigger focus than the X button? I didn't see the camera zoom on the X button.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I've only had my account activated so I haven't yet been able to contribute much to the PS3, Durango conversation, but I have been lurking for awhile.

That said the way I've seen GAF react to each companies consoles is when Sony said "We're going to be the number one place for games, social networking and entertainment" people go OMG SONY IS ONLY ABOUT GAMES, THEY LOVE US GAMERS, but when Microsoft says "We want Durango to be the games, TV, and entertainment center of the living room" people scream OMG MS IS FOCUSING ON ENTERTAINMENT. THEYVE ABANDONED US GAMERS. Obviously I'm using hyperbole, but that's just what I've observed.

Sony has come out numerous times to say that games will be the big focus on PS4. It could be just PR but they have at least said it and that has got gamers excited. The majority of rumours, descriptions, MS statements have insinuated there being a focus on entertainment. Yes they haven't even announced the console yet but thats the feeling most people are getting going towards Durango and that is a disadvantage of being second to announceeople will jump to conclusions when comparing your console.

I guarantee Microsoft is going to come out and say the exact same things as Sony and they'll get crucified for it because people looked at the last few years with Kinect and think that's the future, it isn't. Every console towards the end of a gen turns towards the casual crowd to try and boost sales because "hardcore" gamers already have the console anyways. Will Kinect be a part of the next Xbox? Yeah. Will they be as Kinect centered as the last few years? No, because that's not what makes them money.

There is a saying; actions speak louder than words. MS can say all they want that they are pro-gaming but if on the 21st there is a clear focus on the nextbox being a tv box then its going mean jack. Your right that every console does start to foucs on other audiences as they wear on but the difference between the ps3 and 360 is that Sony still produced core first party titles while Kinect had a considerable impact on MS first party output.

I mean just look at this:

PS3 1st party lineup:
The Last of Us
Beyond
Rain
Puppeteer
Until Dawn

Vs

360 1st party lineup:
Lococcyle (XBL)

Its clear why people are jumping to such conclusions that Sony will foucs more on gaming. They might be premature but you can't blame them for making such decisions.

I think gamers don't fully get how business in the world works. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo don't want your love and affection, they want your money. I remember a Michael Eisner quote that really struck me awhile ago. He said something to the effect of "Disney's goal isn't to make dreams come true, it's to make money" and the same goes with the games industry. It's stupid for fanboys to argue who cares about who more.

Everyone knows this. It doesn't change the fact that Sony have been more focused on putting out core games than MS over the past few years. Core gamers will appreciate that.

If MS want equality then they will need to invest in their first party (just like Sony did this gen) which it seems they are doing. We just need to wait for the results now.

Edit: thanks Benny.

 

[benny_a]

360 1st party lineup:

LocoCycle
It's also on PC but State of Decay (Edit: Just looked it up that it's not a first-party game but still cool shit.)

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Simple logic? You don't build something into the controller if it's not going to be a focus.

SIXAXIS says hello.

 

[CaptainSlow]

It's fascinating how a brief shift in Microsoft's late-era Xbox 360 strategy to reign in casuals...has produced such a widespread misconception that Microsoft "doesn't care about gamers."

Agreed. Hardcore gamers are what drive the first few years of console generations sales. Since this generation already lasted longer than most, both Sony and MS used the Move and Kinect to draw in people who STILL hadn't purchased it yet. MS just had the bigger advertising budget and that's why we heard about it so much. It was the same deal with the PS2. I remember so many PSEye Karaoke games that it was maddening!

I fully expect this to be the one generation where the two major consoles are virtually indistinguishable at launch. Both are going to have the same features and be close in specs. That's a GOOD thing for gamers because it means that each company is going to have to use software to distinguish itself from it's competitor.

Welcome, you seem like a reasonable person, something we're in dire need of.

Thanks man. I try to just state my opinion and not sound like an ass while doing it. Plus I'll be the first person to admit that I'm often wrong about a lot of things.