Kotaku: Sony is working on a ‘PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4

Outrun said:
If Sony or MS does this, then I will buy my consoles at my determined schedule, not theirs.

That is just me, but I can't afford to keep up in this potential rat race.
Click to expand...
And it's a totally viable option as you will still receive the same game as everyone else even if they are an iteration above.
 
ZOONAMI said:
It's actually was pretty weird that Ms went power pc after the original xbox.
Click to expand...

I think it was because Intel is high cost/power, and at the time of X360's release their direction was high performance gaming and PowerPC was a viable option. When they were designing X360, Intel had recently abandoned years of work on Netburst when it proved to not scale IPC with clockspeed, and rolled back to an improved Pentium 3 design running around 1.5 GHz. Though I suppose they could have approached AMD because their chips were competitive back then.
 
jmdajr said:
Don't you need like a 500 dollar video card to do 4k gaming on PC? I mean those cards are massive. Plus you need a pretty hefty power supply.

edit: nice
If you don’t mind running games closer to medium detail settings at 4K, but you still want to experience the pixel-dense glory of games running at 3,840x2,160 resolution, under-$500 (barely under, mind you) cards such as the GeForce GTX 980$494.95 at Amazon and AMD’s Radeon R9 390X$495.29 at Amazon are also capable options. Just remember that you won’t be able to play many games at the highest detail settings.

Time to give up this crazy idea! It's probably an upscaler.
Click to expand...


If AMD & Sony make a APU for 4K /VR they can do it at a cheaper price than the cards made to brute force it's way to 4K /VR why is this so hard for people to understand?
 
Glorified G said:
To summarize, Zoetis confirmed Sony releasing a system capable of rendering 4K current gen games at 30fps in 2016 with no custom options, or devs changing asset quality. (Outside of downsampling, little incentive for gamers with 1080p sets) And this will not be expensive apparently (laughed at the notion that this will come near $800).

Zoetis will officially reach God-tier status if everything here is correct, because from everything i'm reading, it looks like all this cannot be possible. 4K rendering, affordable and in 2016?
Click to expand...

Are the dev APIs for PS4 really that closed off that they don't have control over how hardware is utilized? Even if they were I'm sure Naughty Dog would get a pass to get full control as they'll tweak anything they can per stage or cutscene to improve visuals.
 
No Love said:
Retail cost != Wholesale cost (and Sony would be getting these GPU's/APU's below wholesale since they'd be buying them in the millions).
Click to expand...

onQ123 said:
If AMD & Sony make a APU for 4K /VR they can do it at a cheaper price than the cards made to brute force it's way to 4K /VR why is this so hard for people to understand?
Click to expand...

How much cheaper? It's not like the GPU is the only thing going in there.
 
onQ123 said:
If AMD & Sony make a APU for 4K /VR they can do it at a cheaper price than the cards made to brute force it's way to 4K /VR why is this so hard for people to understand?
Click to expand...

Titan X= Funny car drag racer. A beast. Can you tame it!?
Console APU= Lotus Evora. Sweet handling, lovely balance and easy to drive fast. Only a bit slower than the fastest hyper car(d)s around a track.
 
Substandard said:
I know what you are saying, but it was somewhat surprising to me that the PC was essentially already ahead when the consoles launched. Previous generations the PC had to sort of catch up over time. 360 games didn't really have a lot of better looking PC ports until the last 3-4 years of the console life.

My main point though, was that if I wanted the high fidelity option currently I'd be playing on PC (and I generally am). The nice thing about the consoles is that they have traditionally provided good value for a lower entry cost than the PC market without the need to upgrade for 5-7 years. That goes away on a 2-year upgrade cycle.

I'm in a position where I have every console for the exclusives and a good PC though, which makes it a lot easier to just dump the consoles if they start iterating too fast. I'm already paying the $400 entry fee essentially for the ability to play Destiny, Uncharted 4, Bloodborne, etc. and a few things with my friends who only have consoles. I'm not buying 2-3 boxes per generation for that.
Click to expand...

X360 and PS3 sold at heavy losses whereas at least PS4 I believe was sold around how much it cost to produce/market/sell. Also PowerPC beat Intel's netburst design failure, whereas now consoles are using AMD chips which have only a bit more than half the IPC of current Intel designs. The only way you could beat at least CPU performance of typical desktops, you'd have to get a custom E5 xeon (6-8 core, speed binned) or LGA 2011 -E processor from Intel, which would cost hundreds of dollars alone.
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
Titan X= Funny car drag racer. A beast. Can you tame it!?
Console APU= Lotus Evora. Sweet handling, lovely balance and easy to drive fast. Only a bit slower than the fastest hyper car(d)s around a track.
Click to expand...

Lotus Evora: top speed 186mph
Fastlane Software Jim Read Racing dragster: 329mph

Sounds about right.
 
TimFL said:
Wait to get this straight. There are people who believe this upgraded 4k PS4.5? No way.
They might release a slightly more powerful iteration but it wont be native 4k gaming ready.

Also how is this even supposed to work then, devs doing 2 versions of a game so it runs uglier on launch day devices? The outcome I see is that this turns into another "weakest link" with most games aiming for launch console compatibility, just like PC games were held back by 360/PS3.
Click to expand...
I think if this PS4.5 is real, it won't be about 4k. It will be about VR. If PS4.5 can render any PS4 game at 4k, it will probably also be able to run them 90fps 1080p. So you are no longer limited to PS3 level graphics for VR. You can just get any new PS4 game, and make it run in VR.
Think Battlefield 5, Red Dead Redemption 2, Uncharted 4, Battlefront, No Man's Sky...
 
Here is a theory guys... Maybe it's not a revised ps4..but a whole new ps system. I don't even think it will be marketed as a 4k capable ps4.
 
TEH-CJ said:
Here is a theory guys... Maybe it's not a revised ps4..but a whole new ps system. I don't even think it will be marketed as a 4k capable ps4.
Click to expand...


Per a few pages back, the author of Kotaku article (I think) said he specifically asked about it being the PS5 and was told this product was not related to that.
 
meanspartan said:
And honestly, a GPU that could run games at 4k with decent framerate would not only seemingly be very expensive, it would also be clearly a bigger jump than Ps3 to Ps4 was in regards to the power required for it. For all intents and purposes, it would be Ps5 as to its capability.

I think it must just be a really good 4k upscaler, if anything.
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand. It's a much smaller jump. PS3 to PS4 is much greater than a PS4 to PS4+ (in 4k) would be, if we're talking about just rendering at 4x the resolution with no other changes.

It's only greater (well, much closer to equal jump) if you consider the time involved, as the first jump was after 7 years and this would be 3-4 years (exponential rather than linear improvements)
 
David Ricardo said:
I think if this PS4.5 is real, it won't be about 4k. It will be about VR. If PS4.5 can render any PS4 game at 4k, it will probably also be able to run them 90fps 1080p. So you are no longer limited to PS3 level graphics for VR. You can just get any new PS4 game, and make it run in VR.
Think Battlefield 5, Red Dead Redemption 2, Uncharted 4, Battlefront, No Man's Sky...
Click to expand...

This doesn't seem logical at all. There is no flip switch that can automatically turn any game into VR because the hardware can allow it. Devs have to put in resources to allow it and every game you listed are from big publishers who haven't attempted any big VR titles. At most it would be built from the ground up and a separate title focused on VR like Battlefront, not the mainline titles.

This is most likely about 4K since Zoetis hasn't said anything about VR. And you would be locking out 36 million+ users who currently have a PS4 and telling them spend upto $1000 or more just for VR, just for more polygons. And that would directly contradict what Sony presented at GDC:

psvrl3st3.png
Click to expand...
 
Hey guys, kinda off-topic but I didn't want to make a thread for this.

In retrospect, what do you guys think about the leap from PS2 to PS4?

If PS3 never existed, or put another way, keeping the PS2 as PS2 in 2000, and in 2006 we got a PlayStation equal to PS4 -- Is PS2 to PS4 as big of a leap from PS1 to PS2?

PS1 to PS2 was a massive leap, not only in raw specs, but what was actually achieved in games.
 
Glorified G said:
Everything we know so far (at least from verified insiders) this is only for people to take advantage of the resolution of their 4K displays. That's it.If you don't have a 4K TV, you're not missing out on anything substantial. All PS4 games will have the same frame rate, same assets, no customization.
Click to expand...

That's the confusing bit. Why is there a rumored GPU boost for that? It shouldn't be needed. Why is the rumor calling a .5 console? If it's just getting existing games outputing in 4k then all thats needed is a decent upscaler and HDMI 2.0. The could do that with a slim revision. It just doesn't fit other aspects of the rumor.
 
RoboPlato said:
If PS4.5 is being floated around as the codename it's definitely a revised PS4.
Click to expand...

Legit question, do you think "Playstation 4.5" is a good final consumer-facing name? It's important to convey "this is a half-step upgrade" to consumers without confusing them or making them think it's a brand new system. Apple seems to have hit a sweet spot with their iPhone 5S/6S nomenclature that is easy to understand. I'm just wondering what Sony might do that would convey the same idea succinctly. Presumably it would be named Playstation 4-something, right? "Playstation 4K" would be a pretty damn clever name, I know it has been mentioned here many times already.
 
GamerMax73 said:
That's the confusing bit. Why is there a rumored GPU boost for that? It shouldn't be needed. Why is the rumor calling a .5 console? If it's just getting existing games outputing in 4k then all thats needed is a decent upscaler and HDMI 2.0. The could do that with a slim revision. It just doesn't fit other aspects of the rumor.
Click to expand...

It's not upscaling but rendering in 4K. Which definitely needs an upgraded GPU.
 
Glorified G said:
It's not upscaling but rendering in 4K. Which definitely needs an upgraded GPU.
Click to expand...

But that suggests a much bigger GPU upgrade, has a knock on effect on RAM, and games need to be specifically written or patched to render in 4K. So you create a two tier system. Also, if you have the GPU and RAM for 4K rendering, why cant devs use that power to create a better 1080p experience? 900p30 on PS4, 1080p60 or 4k30 on PS4.5?

Now I'm fine with this as part of an ongoing iteration cycle and stepping stone to PS5. But to be worthwhile PS5 needs to be a little further away than we first thought, closer to 2021 than 2019. Otherwise why not just jump in with a PS5 in the 2018 timescale?

The ongoing R&D required for that kind of GPU jump means this has been in the works for a very long time. Which again leads to a .5 step and moving to console iterations.

It's seems to be that different parts of the rumor contradict themselves.

Also question the value in releasing a machine that renders 4K in the 2016/7 time frame. Upscalling, yes, rendering - a lot of expense for a small target market. For rendering a PS5 in the 2018/9 when TVs are more embedded in peoples homes makes more sense.
 
I'd be more interested in a 60fps PS4 than a 4K one.
I mean if there was a new Ps4 having Uncharted 4 and Bloodborne running at 60fps, i'd probably buy it.
4K though? Eh, i don't even have a 4K screen.
 
Glorified G said:
Everything we know so far (at least from verified insiders) this is only for people to take advantage of the resolution of their 4K displays. That's it.If you don't have a 4K TV, you're not missing out on anything substantial. All PS4 games will have the same frame rate, same assets, no customization.
Click to expand...

So they are developing a new system for the handful of 4K owners out there ?

I can´t really believe that.
 
QuickSilverD said:
how much more powerful would the GPU need to be to render current 1080p games in 4K, how much more RAM would be needed?
Click to expand...

I'm probably way out here but I'd have thought..

You render 1080p games in 1080p and upscale to 4k
You render 4k games in 4k

The screen size is 4x bigger so the frame buffer needs to be 4x bigger. While that should easily fit in the PS4's existing 8Gb ram (and then some), the memory space may already be allocated to other functions. Rob Peter to pay Paul, or full back on slower virtual ram on the hard drive.

On top of that you either have 4x as many polygons to shift around the screen, or you have the same number of polygons but they are 4x bigger - may actually look a bit blocky and ugly compared to 1080p, Looks like a PS3 game at 4K - upscaling may be better.

I don't know, I'd imagine a RAM boost to 12Gb would more than cover it.
 
GamerMax73 said:
[...]
The screen size is 4x bigger so the frame buffer needs to be 4x bigger. While that should easily fit in the PS4's existing 8Gb ram (and then some), the memory space may already be allocated to other functions. Rob Peter to pay Paul, or full back on slower virtual ram on the hard drive.
[...]
Click to expand...

Don't forget that devs can't use all the RAM as a huge part is still allocated to the OS.
 
entremet said:
How is it wasted?

You're still playing and enjoying games now, right? This thing isn't even out or officially confirmed. Does it existing take away all the fun times you had with the PS4?

I don't get this logic.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply: because I'd rather have saved my money for the more powerful console that won't be obsolete as quickly. Its a huge investment and I'd rather "future-proof" to a certain extent. Granted the Eurogamer news may change things.
 
GamerMax73 said:
On top of that you either have 4x as many polygons to shift around the screen, or you have the same number of polygons but they are 4x bigger - may actually look a bit blocky and ugly compared to 1080p, Looks like a PS3 game at 4K - upscaling may be better.
Click to expand...

The number of polygons doesn't change in either case, nor does their "size". The final number of fragments/pixels per polygon after projection increases, but that doesn't change the look - in the end jaggies become less noticeable as pixel size decreases with increased resolution, and thats it.
 
Screaming Meat said:
I'd rather have saved my money for the more powerful console that won't be obsolete as quickly.
Click to expand...

There will always be a cheaper or more powerful console down the road if you wait long enough, and nothing about iterative consoles says they'd be obsolete any faster. Software support can continue for exactly the same length of time if that's the business model Sony and/or Microsoft have in mind.

Your console would no longer be "top of the line", sure, but that has always been the case. They get smaller, quieter, more reliable, have more disk space, and there's even precedent for added features like HMDI output and dedicated Kinect connectors on mid-cycle Xbox 360 models.

I'm far from convinced that Sony will introduce a PS4.5 that is significantly more powerful, and I'm almost certain they won't cut software support short for the PS4.
 
Digital Foundry weighing in. Haven't read the full thing yet but they confirm it's real, if we didn't already think it was...

In the wake of last week's post-GDC outing of the hardware by Kotaku, we have independently established that it's real and that Sony's R&D labs have prototype devices, and we also have more than one source referring to it as PlayStation 4K, the name we'll be using for now. And this is where things become slightly strange - because while more GPU power is being offered to developers, realistically it is nowhere near enough to provide native 4K gaming at the same quality level as current 1080p titles. The full extent of the spec is a current focus of enquiry for us, but realistically, it is simply impossible to cram the equivalent of today's top-end PC graphics hardware into a console-sized, mass-market box.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ystation-4k-is-real-but-why-is-sony-making-it
Click to expand...

Basically confirms it will be for 4K media primarily, so no outlandish 4K gaming, which was to be expected!
 
DavidDesu said:
Digital Foundry weighing in. Haven't read the full thing yet but they confirm it's real, if we didn't already think it was...



Basically confirms it will be for 4K media primarily, so no outlandish 4K gaming, which was to be expected!
Click to expand...
It doesn't confirm anything. They know nothing of the specs. They are only speculating whats possible based on current parts. They are really only saying that its not possible to do PS4 quality graphics in 4K in a console sized box.
 
Phaw! Eurogamer didn't even mention PSVR portable, PS4P, PS4.9, PS4++ and not a single word about an external graphics card or 4D VR glasses.
 
Planet said:
Phaw! Eurogamer didn't even mention PSVR portable, PS4P, PS4.9, PS4++ and not a single word about an external graphics card or 4D VR glasses.
Click to expand...



fry-see-what-you-did-there.jpg



onQ123 said:
If things work the way I think it's gonna work PS4 is getting an even longer life cycle because the software will scale.


Make a PS4 game & it will run on PS4, PS4.5 ,PSVR portable , PS4P & so on.


The hardware will be able to recompile the software to code that runs best on it's platform.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Imagine working on a videogame for years....
42
568
Signalis replied
Sony Lays Out Plans For AI Use In Gaming Going Forward
News Game Dev 
25
258
Ronin_7 replied
Build a Rocket Boy (Mindseye) Working On "Very Powerful" T.V IP w/ 'Very Big Company'
Rumor 
25
666
Paasei replied
Hideo Kojima alone is currently working on PlayStation Studios game Physint
News Game Dev  2 3
105
2K
Heimdall_Xtreme replied
Dave the Diver creator working on three new titles with 60-person studio; plans to expand Dave the Diver into a franchise
News 
7
114
Generic replied
Top Bottom