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[Relaxed Muscle]

Epic won't put the time in to officially support the WiiU but will for moble games. Shows how lazy they are

Whatever version of UE4 that would work on mobile platforms dosn't mean is suited for a console like Wii U. Probably Mark Rein is saying that UE3 is more suited for the platform rather to try to use the downgraded version for smartphones/tablets.

 

[popeutlal]

If Nintendo isn't releasing games for their console, than why the 3rd parties would?

 

[jmood88]

That's one scenario, yes, but is it invalde because the person is a Nintendo fan? What if they legitimately think that the company in question truly sucks? Is their opinion invalid because they are a Nintendo fan?

This will occur more and more, and definitely not only when someone says "well, this company sucks anyway, soo..." Maybe I'm wrong in worrying, but I suppose time will tell. Best of luck GAF!

It's invalid because instead of accepting that Nintendo has a problem, there are fans who will say the same thing about every company that doesn't support the Wii U. Some people seem to be under the impression that Nintendo is the only developer who can make good games or that any developer who doesn't support Nintendo's platform isn't that good, which isn't even close to being true.

 

[wakajawaka]

Nintendo is doing almost everything wrong, I always laughed at the "Nintendoomed" stuff, but I feel the Wii U is gonna be a hard hit on them. :/

 

[jmood88]

I'm finding this all ridiculous. Sometimes I think back and wonder at which point gaming became more about graphics and less about having fun...

I am really tired of seeing this in every Nintendo thread. There are many great looking games that are fun. Good graphics and fun are not mutually exclusive.

 

[BLunted]

Ooh, Dat Burn...

 

[Currygan]

totally expected, but christ, Rein is a fucking arrogant individual

 

[Nags]

How the fuck is Vita finding footing? 2 and 3 year ports of indie games? No. It's just as bad of a position as Wii U.

Incorrect.
At the moment it is selling more than Wii U week over week (which is still not great I know). Also, I don't see devs making the same insinuation with the Vita lacking power as a handheld gaming system/mobile device. On top of that, Sony has already outlined the functionality with the PS4. The Vita actually relevant at this point.

 

[BlackJace]

Vita is relevant? Where?

 

[BGBW]

If Nintendo isn't releasing games for their console, than why the 3rd parties would?

Don't they complain about having to compete with Nintendo releases? During this quiet spell would be a perfect time to release a game on Wii U. I'm sure Mon Hun, NFS and Lego City (technically a Nintendo title) all benefitted from releasing around a time when Nintendo wasn't releasing anything. Why do you think people said UbiSoft made a big mistake not releasing Rayman when they had the chance?

 

[StuBurns]

Sony aren't even going for the same projects with the Vita though. Nintendo want the forty million dollar, AAA, wide appeal hits. Sony are after the little indie darlings. It's far lower commitment.

 

[Nags]

Don't confuse relevant with "success".

 

[metalslimer]

I am really tired of seeing this in every Nintendo thread. There are many great looking games that are fun. Good graphics and fun are not mutually exclusive.

It's the usual defense mechanism to explain this all away with the usual lazy developers insult and Nintendo games are sacred cows. Sad, I remember one of my favorite games Metroid Prime (shut it ani) blowing me away visually and gameplay wise. The second Nintendo releases a more powerful system people will slob all over how pretty they while simultaneously whining about graphics on other platforms. Newsflash: the next Zelda game is going to be AAA blockbuster that is supposedly ruining the industry

The Vita actually relevant at this point.

Hahaha, stretch of the word relevant.

Actually, if Nintendo wanted those big budget AAA games, they'd develop them. They don't

Nintendo just uses that money elsewhere. The marketing campaign for Wii Fit could have developed multiple AAA games.

 

[wsippel]

Sony aren't even going for the same projects with the Vita though. Nintendo want the forty million dollar, AAA, wide appeal hits. Sony are after the little indie darlings. It's far lower commitment.

Actually, if Nintendo wanted those big budget AAA games, they'd develop them. They don't, because they don't believe in that business model. At the same time, it's also Nintendo who's actively courting indies. And I mean indies in general, not a few selected superstars from the indie scene.

 

[AZ Greg]

I'm finding this all ridiculous. Sometimes I think back and wonder at which point gaming became more about graphics and less about having fun...

Maybe you should ask some of the Nintendo fans who gif'd this:

I think it is pretty safe to assume that this gif wasn't made to demonstrate some new unique never before seen Zelda gameplay.

 

[npm0925]

Hardware doesn't matter for Nintendo. They could sell tens of millions of Wii-U consoles (maybe not at a $300 price point, though) if they developed the right games for it. Why not release a 2D Zelda or Metroid to bridge the gap between AAA titles? Or maybe a Professor Layton title? Where's Pushmo? The system is unnecessarily barren now. I bought this thing to play Nintendo games; I don't give a fuck about third party support.

 

[BrhysH]

The difference between an iPad and a WiiU is that iPads have a install base

Serious question. If you were a dev. From a business point of view. Why would you bother to develop for WiiU at this point in time?

As an engine/middleware provider I'd want my product on as many platforms as possible and would not be laughing at quetions regarding it.

 

[StuBurns]

Actually, if Nintendo wanted those big budget AAA games, they'd develop them. They don't, because they don't believe in that business model. At the same time, it's also Nintendo who's actively courting indies. And I mean indies in general, not a few selected superstars from the indie scene.

Oh man, I was almost about to reply seriously, damn, you almost got me son, nice.

 

[metalslimer]

Maybe you should ask some of the Nintendo fans who gif'd this:

I think it is pretty safe to assume that this gif wasn't made to demonstrate some new unique never before seen Zelda gameplay.

Or why people love seeing Dolphin shots. The better graphics are terrible and ruining the industry have been hypocritical bullshitters since day 1. I mean I can play and love games with SNES graphical fidelity, but Im not going to get on a box yelling about how i would be fine with SNES graphics for years

 

[Ingueferroque]

What the hell did everyone expect? The Wii-U isn't a next-gen system.

 

[jWILL253]

There are two problems here.

1. Nintendo completely botched with the WiiU. No other way around it. I read a lot of posts regarding the power of Nintendo's first party offerings. Problem is there isn't any concrete release dates for any of those titles. It's kinda hard to inspire third party confidence when the first party can't even get its shit together.

2. Is it just me, or is everybody that works for Epic an asshole? Judging by the recent comments by two of their biggest public figures (Rein & Cliff Blezinski), it seems they can't make any public statements without coming off as a bunch of trolling malcontents.

I read a post in this thread about how Rein makes comments like these all the time. If that's the case, he has no business being a company VP. At a time when our hobby is being criticized for our lack of maturity, it makes no sense to have this guy making statements in such a insulting manner towards a potential business partner. No matter how you feel about the WiiU, that doesn't change the fact that Mr. Rein comes off as an immature hack who lacks any sort of tact.

Also, why are people in this thread so happy about the fact that an increasing number of people aren't getting any games because of a few business decisions from the suits? I want ALL the consoles to have a large library of great games. But people are too caught up in a bunch of fanboy circlejerks to see that if Nintendo goes third party, that means only TWO major consoles, which means more industry consolidation, which means more risk-adversity, which means creative bankruptcy.

If an industry crash does happen, it'll be because everyone involved, from the console makers to the pubs, to the devs, to us gamers, has been acting like a bunch of idiots...

EDIT: I know Cliff doesn't work at Epic anymore, but people still know him as essentially "Mr. Epic". Therefore, every comment he makes reflects back on them...

 

[StuBurns]

CliffyB doesn't work at Epic.

 

[10k]

Goddamn. Still gonna buy the Wii U though after it reaches $150 price point.

Should reach that point by May

 

[Ingueferroque]

Lately everyone is bashing Vita for an upsurge of indie support as if it is a bad thing. Hilarious.

 

[AOC83]

Should reach that point by May

Already below 200€ in good ol´Europe.

 

[Nags]

I'm pointing and laughing at my Wii U now.

"Don't worry little guy! I still love ya for my MH and other exclusive titles. They'll come! Eventually..."

 

[TheSeks]

As an engine/middleware provider I'd want my product on as many platforms as possible and would not be laughing at quetions regarding it.

And if there was no demand for you porting that middleware?

Devs aren't asking for UE4 support in the system because the system is DYING currently. Why would Epic throw money behind a port for it if it isn't going to be used?

 

[Meelow]

CliffyB doesn't work at Epic.

He means how Cliffy B is a known person in the gaming industry.

I think if a crash does happen (which I am begging not to happen) all the big 3, pubs, devs, etc will get hit in the head with reality.

I mean it's not Nintendo that needs to change, Sony and Microsoft need to change as well, they all do bad mistakes and one day it could hurt them all.

As for what should look at reality is how much company's went bankrupt last gen, I was shocked to hear THQ had money problems because I didn't think they did, if a big company that was THQ could go under than most company's can, if EA thinks they are unstoppable than karma will hit them back.

That's my opinion at least.

 

[metalslimer]

Should reach that point by May

I expect a pricecut in the summer. Anyone expecting a holiday cut is crazy because retailers wont order hardly any systems. Pricecut in july/august that launches with pikmin 3/wonderful 101/wii fit u and a new ad campaign

 

[10k]

I expect a pricecut in the summer. Anyone expecting a holiday cut is crazy because retailers wont order hardly any systems. Pricecut in july/august that launches with pikmin 3/wonderful 101/wii fit u and a new ad campaign

I wrote in another thread that Nintendo cut all their struggling consoles prices after six months (N64, GameCube, 3DS). Six months for Wii U would be end of May which is the timeframe for Pikmin 3 and TW101. Then hopefully they carry that momentum into E3 and reveal the Q4 titles like Wind Waker HD, Super Mario 3D, and Retro's title.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

He means how Cliffy B is a known person in the gaming industry.

I think if a crash does happen (which I am begging not to happen) all the big 3, pubs, devs, etc will get hit in the head with reality.

I mean it's not Nintendo that needs to change, Sony and Microsoft need to change as well, they all do bad mistakes and one day it could hurt them all.

As for what should look at reality is how much company's went bankrupt last gen, I was shocked to hear THQ had money problems because I didn't think they did, if a big company that was THQ could go under than most company's can, if EA thinks they are unstoppable than karma will hit them back.

That's my opinion at least.

THQ went bankrupt for reasons that aren't applicable here though. Not all pubs go belly up due to spending 50-100 million budget games.

 

[StuBurns]

He means how Cliffy B is a known person in the gaming industry.

I think if a crash does happen (which I am begging not to happen) all the big 3, pubs, devs, etc will get hit in the head with reality.

I mean it's not Nintendo that needs to change, Sony and Microsoft need to change as well, they all do bad mistakes and one day it could hurt them all.

As for what should look at reality is how much company's went bankrupt last gen, I was shocked to hear THQ had money problems because I didn't think they did, if a big company that was THQ could go under than most company's can, if EA thinks they are unstoppable than karma will hit them back.

That's my opinion at least.

What you're referring to is the natural escalation of competition in media. Have a look how many major record labels there are (3), how many major film studios (6), publishers are willing to operate with very little margins, because to kill their competition is actually much better for them than record profits.

This is pretty easy with modern game design, you can just spend large sums very easily on graphics, and voice acting, and live orchestras, and motion capture, etc. Production standards can be raised easily, but they'd just be doing it with scope if they couldn't with production quality.

People will lament the end of THQ, but EA, and Activision, and Ubisoft, etc, want nothing more than to be in the business alone.

 

[wsippel]

Oh man, I was almost about to reply seriously, damn, you almost got me son, nice.

I wasn't joking, but I worded my thoughts pretty badly. The point is that Nintendo obviously doesn't do much to secure those high profile AAA games. It's nice if they're coming and Nintendo will give them some exposure, but they don't seem to care all that much if they skip Wii U. This very topic is a prime example: If they actively wanted UE4 on Wii U, they'd ask Epic to port the engine, or port the engine at NST. Or enter a strategic partnership similar to the Unity or Havok deals. It's not that they couldn't afford/ do it, which means they simply don't consider it worthwhile or important enough.

 

[onipex]

Just proves Epic is either lazy or does not give a shit about Nintendo platforms. What's the last epic game developed and released for a Nintendo console or handheld.

And are there any UE3 games running on the Wii?

The don't care about Nintendo platforms. If they didn't bother to support the Wii I wouldn't expect them to support anything to do with Nintendo. Like last gen the only way the engine will work on a Nintendo console is if a third party dev or Nintendo optimize it to run on the platform.

This is old new though so I don't know why people are making a big deal about it again. There were no plans to support the Wii U before it launched.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

What you're referring to is the natural escalation of competition in media. Have a look how many major record labels there are (3), how many major film studios (6), publishers are willing to operate with very little margins, because to kill their competition is actually much better for them than record profits.

This is pretty easy with modern game design, you can just spend large sums very easily on graphics, and voice acting, and live orchestras, and motion capture, etc. Production standards can be raised easily, but they'd just be doing it with scope if they couldn't with production quality.

People will lament the end of THQ, but EA, and Activision, and Ubisoft, etc, want nothing more than to be in the business alone.

And lets be honest, these pubs keep spending $100 million on certain games because they probably make 5x that in the end. Obviously not every 100 mil title will reap a solid profit but these pubs arent going to continue spending this type of cash if it doesnt reap huge rewards.

 

[StuBurns]

I wasn't joking, but I worded my thoughts pretty badly. The point is that Nintendo obviously doesn't do much to secure those high profile AAA games. It's nice if they're coming and Nintendo will give them some exposure, but they don't seem to care all that much if they skip Wii U. This very topic is a prime example: If they actively wanted UE4 on Wii U, they'd ask Epic to port the engine, or port the engine at NST. Or enter a strategic partnership similar to the Unity or Havok deals. It's not that they couldn't afford/ do it, which means they simply don't consider it worthwhile or important enough.

So you believe the reason the Wii U isn't going to get any meaningful Western support is because Nintendo don't want it, is that right? GTA5 isn't on Wii U because Nintendo doesn't think it's worth having?

 

[Shion]

I wasn't joking, but I worded my thoughts pretty badly. The point is that Nintendo obviously doesn't do much to secure those high profile AAA games. It's nice if they're coming and Nintendo will give them some exposure, but they don't seem to care all that much if they skip Wii U. This very topic is a prime example: If they actively wanted UE4 on Wii U, they'd ask Epic to port the engine, or port the engine at NST. Or enter a strategic partnership similar to the Unity or Havok deals. It's not that they couldn't afford/ do it, which means they simply don't consider it worthwhile or important enough.

There are comments from Iwata and Reggie that suggest otherwise.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I wasn't joking, but I worded my thoughts pretty badly. The point is that Nintendo obviously doesn't do much to secure those high profile AAA games. It's nice if they're coming and Nintendo will give them some exposure, but they don't seem to care all that much if they skip Wii U. This very topic is a prime example: If they actively wanted UE4 on Wii U, they'd ask Epic to port the engine, or port the engine at NST. Or enter a strategic partnership similar to the Unity or Havok deals. It's not that they couldn't afford/ do it, which means they simply don't consider it worthwhile or important enough.

So Nintendo doesnt want BF4, GTA5, Mass Effect 4, Destiny, and more heavy hitters on the Wii U?

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Maybe you should ask some of the Nintendo fans who gif'd this:

I think it is pretty safe to assume that this gif wasn't made to demonstrate some new unique never before seen Zelda gameplay.

It's crazy how the zelda gifs look like crap now that we've seen next-gen games and tech demos. I legit thought the zelda demo looked awesome back then but it now looks almost a gen below some of the stuff we're seeing (Knack, Deep Down, Infamous 2, Agni's, the tech demos from yesterday)

 

[AOC83]

So Nintendo doesnt want BF4, GTA5, Mass Effect 4, Destiny, and more heavy hitters on the Wii U?

Looks like that. Today the big cash is made by selling 50k copies Monster Hunter worldwide.

 

[MarkusRJR]

I just read all 40+ pages of this thread and have a migraine now. Some of the arguments by the Nintendo fans are just so deluded. I feel like I'm on GameFAQs. :/

And this is coming from someone who got banned last year for defending the Wii U before release. Man how things turned out.

 

[wsippel]

So Nintendo doesnt want BF4, GTA5, Mass Effect 4, Destiny, and more heavy hitters on the Wii U?

Not badly enough to moneyhat publishers, obviously.

Looks like that. Today the big cash is made by selling 50k copies Monster Hunter worldwide.

Total sales aren't nearly as important as RoI and risk management. We had a lot of million selling bombs recently.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

It's crazy how the zelda gifs look like crap now that we've seen next-gen games and tech demos. I legit thought the zelda demo looked awesome back then but it now looks almost a gen below some of the stuff we're seeing (Knack, Deep Down, Infamous 2, Agni's, the tech demos from yesterday)

What? That still looks amazing. Art style and color looks great. And if a game looked great a month ago it still looks great today.

 

[mentalfloss]

It's crazy how the zelda gifs look like crap now that we've seen next-gen games and tech demos.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Not badly enough to moneyhat publishers, obviously.

If the platform was worth porting to they wouldn't need to moneyhat pubs. Unfortunately for Ninty, ports are a waste of time and resources and just not worth it (opportunity cost).

What? That still looks amazing. Art style and color looks great. And if a game looked great a month ago it still looks great today.

It looks like shit compared to the games/demos we've seen over the past month. The only thing holding it up is the cartoony art style which helps its visuals.

 

[metalslimer]

It's crazy how the zelda gifs look like crap now that we've seen next-gen games and tech demos. I legit thought the zelda demo looked awesome back then but it now looks almost a gen below some of the stuff we're seeing (Knack, Deep Down, Infamous 2, Agni's, the tech demos from yesterday)

Heavy stahp

Zelda demo was never a technical next gen masterpiece.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Not badly enough to moneyhat publishers, obviously.

Well if you are correct it's speaks volumes of Nintendo's corporate incompetence. However, Iwata and Reggie have said otherwise.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Total sales aren't nearly as important as RoI and risk management. We had a lot of million selling bombs recently.

If the Wii U had a large install base and/or was up to par hardware wise there wouldnt be anything for Nintendo to do. Do you believe Micro or Sony had to moneyhat EA to get BF4 on the 360,720/PS3,PS4? Same with GTA5?

 

[Massa]

Not badly enough to moneyhat publishers, obviously.

More importantly, they didn't care enough about those games when designing the Wii U hardware.

 

[StuBurns]

Not badly enough to moneyhat publishers, obviously.

There are two flaws to this logic, it assumes what you're suggesting is financially, and technologically viable.

With GTA5, I have no doubt it's possible to port it, but how much would Nintendo have to pay for the game? That's not how a platform holder should operate. Rockstar say, "give us thirty million dollars, and we'll give you a port", and Nintendo say yes?

First parties can't be paying for third party, multiplatform games, it sets a terrible precedent.

Also, going beyond PS360 games, technologically it becomes an issue, as well as financially.

It's not a case of what Nintendo wants, they can't just buy everyone.