There are no lies. Much of your and my wealth & shit still come from slavery and suffering & exploitation of others, no matter who you are.
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LOreal Drops Transgender Model After All White People Racism Post
- Thread starter DogDude
- Start date
Jeffrey Star still getting those cover girl checks tho (afaik)
I never thought about it like that, I should call out racist remarks when I hear them more often.
What the L'Oreal model said about all white people is racist.
I live in Germany and I have to say we don't have this besides one "news" outlet, that spouts right centrist BS, but sometimes also says how Merkel did good on the Refugee issue.
There is no FOX news here. That doesn't mean there isn't racism, but it's far from institutionalized.
Two days ago I saw some black tourists trying to catch a train and yelling a bit and a little asian kid clawed her hands into her mothers clothes in fear seeing them, while the mother said some stuff to her I didn't understand, but looking appaled at the tourists. Shit is really strange, had to resist the urge to shake that mother.
What I mean by this is I know this exists in some shape or form in most places, but to say all white people have this ingrained in them is just too much.
Yeah right, I'm actually a closet racist or complicit with it because of my skin colour, you totally got me. My eyes can't roll hard enough right now.
NeoZeedeater
Member
It's disgusting how many people will defend racism when it's directed at white people. You're only adding fuel to the fire for white bigots by doing that. It's hypocritical and counterproductive to promoting equality.
No way, it's white people's turn to listen
Then they're racist and/or sexist. But not ALL white people. There are white people that go out of their way not to be racist, that actually make efforts to make change. How can you call them racist?
GalacticToast
Member
Wait, what? I'm not even white but this seems dumb as hell.
Both my parents were born in Mexico and immigrated into the US before I was born in Los Angeles. I've heard plenty of non-white people say some racist stuff, whether intentional or not, towards people of different backgrounds. As such, I've done my best to try to educate my parents.
I can't tell if this is sarcastic but racism is prejudice or discrimination of people from a different race. It doesn't seem limited to white people.
It's basically the "they had fun with this long enough, now it's our turn" mentality.
Whenever someone says something against it it's automatically assumed that person is white and should shut up.
Fucking ridiculous.
LIsten to how racist they are
Etrian Oddity
Member
Conquest does that, though, there's plenty of historic evidence that this is not exclusive to white people. Not that you're saying that, or that every white American isn't the beneficiary of a systemic system, but I don't see how we get around it.
The status quo is the status quo for a reason. The concepts of civil rights across the board has largely been a development within the past hundred years; before that, it was just might makes right and whoever conquered the other tribe got to run things. Black, white, east Asian, native Americans, you can trace this across the world. Empires and powerful civilizations were all built at the expense of others.
Naturally, just because "they did it too" does not make it right. However, when we're talking about nuclear societal change (which sadly, racial relations still are), things are put into perspective about how gradual this change will be considering the massive importance of tribalism in human history.
Just like those damnable Sanctuary Cities laws that are being drafted up by over 40 states after Texas started the first attempt, it's still a bunch of scared white people trying to hold onto the "empire." Verbatim, those laws were written out of fear of illegal immigrant criminals. Pure xenophobia and desire to remain "on top." That's not going into day to day BS you gotta deal with being a person of color.
I used to think the problem would be solved when "the old racist folks died," but Trump's America makes me see that this is not a generational issue. Fucking gross.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Everyone has this ingrained in us. It's all about degrees. You may know you are privileged and what not but you will have hang ups or diet racist moments. No one is 100% perfect, it doesn't exist, the idea is to strive for perfection even though you know you'll never reach it.
Because going out of your way is acknowledging it, meaning you're thinking about race, which is racist, of course!
It's very real and taking hold in many academic circles. And it's why a lot of Trump voters hate academia.
lol, the fuck?
GalacticToast
Member
So would you rather folks claim that they "don't see color?" Folks acknowledge the disparity, work to rectify it and then you lump them together with pieces of shit like Trump?
Woah! Easy, easy! I'm sorry man, I didn't mean to call you the R-word! Shit, my bad, my bad. Sorry, sorry, let me tell the other people of color that we got it all wrong.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Well honestly people need to get over themselves and stop looking at themselves as individuals in every situation.
That's privilege in itself.
M
Macapala
Unconfirmed Member
When I saw the title of this thread I rolled my eyes. But reading through this thread and understanding what Munroe Bergdorf actually meant has opened my eyes.
"Because most of ya'll don't even realise or refuse to acknowledge that your existence, privilege and success as a race is built on the backs, blood and death of people of colour."
I feel like an ignorant ass.
"Because most of ya'll don't even realise or refuse to acknowledge that your existence, privilege and success as a race is built on the backs, blood and death of people of colour."
I feel like an ignorant ass.
I mean, people are welcome to keep up with the 'all white people are racist' approach, but it's not going to get anywhere. Most people, though they benefit from being white and have benefited from racism, are not active card carrying KKK members. If the goal is to actually sway people, you have to take a different approach. Call it white fragility or whatever you want, but that's just how the game is arranged.
I never said anything about Trump....
And my post was not a prescription for people either, I was just pointing out the logic of some who think whites should always be denigrated for being racist.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That's cute. You'll find plenty of studies all over the world how poc are disadvantaged in predominately white societies.
Certainly a generalization but considering these issues are systemic and show little signs of improvement are slow it's not an unfounded generalization.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Sorry, but you don't start a conversation about privilege without directing criticism towards the group of people that directly profit off of the marginalization of people. The model clearly spoke from a macro perspective, and she is not wrong by any means. It's not right for White people to redirect the conversation to be about their feelings being made light of again when a person that typically does not have a platform speaks about inequality.
This.
I somehow feel LGBT would get even worse treatment if they went around saying "all straight people are homophobic!'
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I'm 30 and never had any issues with my father before. We're a white family, but he works with a huge number of Indian business contacts and has never talked to me about anything vaguely racist. Then a couple of weeks ago we got into a huge argument about Trump and Chancellorsville which resulted in him saying racism doesn't exist in the UK and other countries only benefited from our history of imperialism.
Systemic racism is a huge issue in this country even if we're not as overtly racist as some of our other European neighbours.
Systemic racism is a huge issue in this country even if we're not as overtly racist as some of our other European neighbours.
It's about the degree. Most people aren't neo-nazis, in fact I would argue very few people are! However most people do have some racial blind spots at the least and have probably said some dumb, embarrassing shit as a result of it. It's a spectrum and no one is trying to says that all white people fall on the most extreme end of that spectrum.
Yup! This is all because she made enough white people made that she got dropped
MikeBreezy92
Member
I mean they typically are. That's how oppression works. It's a legit phrasing.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
LGBT people got where they were because White people themselves can be LGBT.
Women made strides because White people themsleves can be women.
GalacticToast
Member
I'll plead ignorance as to how exactly that's privilege and how no issue admitting that I'm wrong. Feel free to school me on that. It just seems silly to me to loathe generalizations thrown at minorities while throwing them at white people and saying it's okay because they're privileged.
Check again fam
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
You don't have to be card carying kkk to be racist.
Problem is that she explicitly said "I don't have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people"
and
"admit their race is the most violent and oppressive force of nature on Earth."
Which would set off alarms if anything similar was said about another race. It's racist.
I also find the ethnocentric view of it jarring. Asia is over here like "I guess we don't exist".
Maybe I'ts because it's of my background but I simply have never hold a thought of racism, simply because I wouldn't even know what I should be racist towards. I'm half turkish half german, experienced some awful shit due to my father's heritage in school. My stepfather who I've known since birth comes from Cameroon, my godfather from Jamaica. My best friends are from Singapore and Korea.
Like, I can't remember a single racist thought crossing my mind, so I'm not sure how you can be so sure it did. I feel like people always take their own experiences and maybe their friends or families and project that on every human being on earth when it comes to these issues.
What? The amount of times I've seen people basically go: "You're white, shut up, all white people are racists or complicit in racism." goes higher and higher. Some people feel it's alright to be racist against white people, even in this thread.
I realize that being racist towards white people isn't the same as being racist towards minorities (I have a minority background myself) but that doesn't make it ok.
So what solution do you propose for white people that can't turn magically black, brown or whatever? What you are saying here is that black people can't make strides because white people can't be black.
Check the context, fam
I fully know I benefit from being white.
My family was actively against slaves and racism. 3 generations of my family owned a tobacco plantation/farm in South Carolina. My Grandfather (who sold it off when my mother was in her teens), my great grandfather, and great great grandfather didn't believe slavery was right. One of my grandfather's best friends from the 50s-90s was a black man that passed away when I was a kid. I was raised by my family to see all men equal and as human beings.
Even my mother remembers picking tobacco, she had to do it with the family when she was young. A while back I made a post about my grandpa who would tell me he better never hear me say the "N" word. My grandfather also preached that a man must always earn his keep. My ancestors basically believed that not doing the work yourself was a ticket to hell...heh. (big religious motivation to their stance)
So yes...I most definitely benefit from this racist country...but my family most definitely went against the grain.
Note, I'm not mad at her. I don't even blame her for the thought and feeling. She's right probably with 90% plus...but it is not 100% (minus benefiting..that's 100%).
I'd love to see a massive shift to equal rights and treatment in this country, but our current government is going to destroy a TON of progress.
They already have.
My family was actively against slaves and racism. 3 generations of my family owned a tobacco plantation/farm in South Carolina. My Grandfather (who sold it off when my mother was in her teens), my great grandfather, and great great grandfather didn't believe slavery was right. One of my grandfather's best friends from the 50s-90s was a black man that passed away when I was a kid. I was raised by my family to see all men equal and as human beings.
Even my mother remembers picking tobacco, she had to do it with the family when she was young. A while back I made a post about my grandpa who would tell me he better never hear me say the "N" word. My grandfather also preached that a man must always earn his keep. My ancestors basically believed that not doing the work yourself was a ticket to hell...heh. (big religious motivation to their stance)
So yes...I most definitely benefit from this racist country...but my family most definitely went against the grain.
Note, I'm not mad at her. I don't even blame her for the thought and feeling. She's right probably with 90% plus...but it is not 100% (minus benefiting..that's 100%).
I'd love to see a massive shift to equal rights and treatment in this country, but our current government is going to destroy a TON of progress.
They already have.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
What context? Your flimsy reasoning of anti-intellectualism that has already existed within that population in the US being the product of marginalized groups speaking up?
The context that I was responding to two different posters about two different ideas in the post he was quoting.
Also, I'm baffled at your conclusion because I never said or implied that Trump voters anti-intellectualism was the result of marginalized groups speaking up, so it would make sense that you think the reasoning is flimsy.
While I don't disagree with with some of the things she's saying, this part sticks out to me.
Western society is designed to benefit white people? Well yeah, because western societies are historically white societies; white people are the majority. This is no different than any other majority in any other part of the world.
People need to understand that white people are not some special creed of humans that are somehow worse than everyone else in their behaviour. Humans are inherently racist. And humans - in all societies, every single one - make sure that the majority wins out over the minority. Throughout history, in every nation, its been "the strong majority wins, the weak majority falters."
Go to china and you'll suddenly be complaining that the structure benefits chinese people. Go to japan and it will be japanese people instead.
Obviously.
White people were not the only ones to colonise other nations, they were just the most effective at doing so (unfortunately). They know that was wrong, now. They didn't then. Just like everyone else on the planet. Hell, there are people alive today in other countries doing the shit white people learned was fucked up a hundred years ago.
But you know what white people have done? They've changed. And yes, change doesn't happen over night. It happens over generations. And there will always be people holding progress back. But things today are far, far better than it were just 50 years ago. Yes, there is more work to be done. But white people are certainly on there way to being better people.
Writing off white people is counter intuitive and self destructive. It feeds into the idiotic alt-right rhetoric of colored people "trying to take America away." It feeds the flames, rather than trying to put them out.
I don't know if she should have been fired for her comments, but it was a pretty stupid, radical thing to say.
-my 2cents as a brown guy.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Which part of Asia are you speaking for? Because many Asians countries have been conquered by European nations. Make no mistake, South Korea and Japan are the face of cultural exportation in the global community because of their involvement with the West.
Right, but imagine how a generally upstanding person is going to feel when they hear "all white people are racist." They're going to naturally have a bad, defensive reaction. Explaining it to them is not likely to overcome that initial reaction, and that headline is easily mocked while explanations are hard to disseminate. It's a useful academic discussion but if you actually want to persuade people, loaded language matters a great deal. There's a pretty big disconnect between the forum ideologue and what is actually practical and applicable to the real world. This issue is a great example of that.
If you actually want to bring about change, you can't really talk like this.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Well typically a core tenant of White Privilege is individuality. White people are more likely to be seen as a individual in most cases. Minorities don't get this and are always somehow tied into that person's race as just another ____.
Generalizations aren't always a bad thing but they can be when it's lopsided the way it is currently. That's what a lot of people don't get about generalizations. Oppressors get to enjoy individuality and use it as a shield the oppressed are mainly generalized and not given individuality.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
To be better allies and people?
To know their place in a discussion involving PoC and to not let their voice overpower those that are actually affected by systemic racism?
To acknowledge their privileges and be more mindful around PoC?
To use their position to call other White people within White spaces, where they're emboldened enough to speak shit about PoC?
Vincent Alexander
Member
She dun goofed. Her response clearing up what she meant left me feeling "yeah, I' don't think that was entirely what you meant..."
There are plenty of white people doing exactly, all of that. But they're still racist apparantly.
So what else?
If you want examples of asian countries saying "fuck you" to minorities, here are some:
-China in Tibeten and muslim population
-Myanmar's muslim population
Agreed. You said it more simply than I did.
This is almost a parody...
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Recent history would be the rise of communist China (Mao) and WW2 Japan.
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