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[Poor GRIMES]

There are plenty of white people doing exactly, all of that. But they're still racist apparantly.

So what else?

White people are socialized to be racist, like she said. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Being socialized to be racist from birth because of all the images of White supremacy and White institutions is a valid claim.

 

[AlimNassor]

Shes not wrong but, throwing an entire race under is wrong. We should metabolize and isolate racists.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

It's a shame she said this because it was cool that she was going to be the spearhead of a cosmetic company's marketing as a trans woman; but after reading what she wrote she was wrong and while I don't think she meant it to come across as all white people forever are complicit in racism due their their heritage and so on.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I fully know I benefit from being white.

My family was actively against slaves and racism. 3 generations of my family owned a tobacco plantation/farm in South Carolina. My Grandfather (who sold it off when my mother was in her teens), my great grandfather, and great great grandfather didn't believe slavery was right. One of my grandfather's best friends from the 50s-90s was a black man that passed away when I was a kid. I was raised by my family to see all men equal and as human beings.

Even my mother remembers picking tobacco, she had to do it with the family when she was young. A while back I made a post about my grandpa who would tell me he better never hear me say the "N" word. My grandfather also preached that a man must always earn his keep. My ancestors basically believed that not doing the work yourself was a ticket to hell...heh. (big religious motivation to their stance)

So yes...I most definitely benefit from this racist country...but my family most definitely went against the grain.

Note, I'm not mad at her. I don't even blame her for the thought and feeling. She's right probably with 90% plus...but it is not 100% (minus benefiting..that's 100%).

I'd love to see a massive shift to equal rights and treatment in this country, but our current government is going to destroy a TON of progress.

They already have.

Great post. Sadly it seems like some people in this thread would like to tell you that you're still racist because of your skin color...

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Being a individual is a privilege now?

What a dangerous ideology.

Yeah it is, if you understood that, then you wouldn't have a problem with anything she just said.

 

[Madame M]

Yeah it is, if you understood that, then you wouldn't have a problem with anything she just said.

Explain.

 

[Miles X]

White people are socialized to be racist, like she said. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Being socialized to be racist from birth because of all the images of White supremacy and White institutions is a valid claim.

She said all white people are racist. There are plenty of white people that are aware of the issues facing POC and, like I said, try to make a difference. I don't know how they're racist?

Shes not wrong but, throwing an entire race under is wrong. We should metabolize and isolate racists.

Not gonna happen. A certain portion of POC (and white people now?) seem to love saying "lol white people".

Again as a comparison, I've never seen this in the LGBT coomunity, rather we point out homophobes and homophobia. We don't say" straight people ...."

For those that suffer white fragility or are 'on the fence' it's jarring, antagonistic and does nothing to help make them see sense or become better people.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

This is almost a parody...

If you were in a place that was predominantly a PoC safe space as a White ally, then would you immediately jump at everyone's throats or ask passive aggressive questions? If not, then you know your place as a guest in that space and you will use that opportunity to learn

Recent history would be the rise of communist China (Mao) and WW2 Japan.

China's cultural exportation is absoltely no where near Japan or South Korea in terms of relevance. WW2 Japan, funnily enough, did many things that the West did towards other PoC nations to rise in power. Moreover. post-WW2 Japan is directly addressing their sins of the past, and so is Germany, by educating their population and making better strides towards improving relations. What has the West done for their PoC communities? What have White people done to make strides toward more equitable treatment of PoC?

 

[RedRum]

White people are socialized to be racist, like she said. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Being socialized to be racist from birth because of all the images of White supremacy and White institutions is a valid claim.

All white people though???

Irrevocably and without a doubt?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

The British Empire were immensely succesful in their conquests. It's one of the most succesful empires in history, but I don't think that they were more evil, than other empires of their time was.
This was the world we've lived in until recently. There was no concept of anything other than, vanquish the weak. And that mentality existed all over the world, and wasn't reserved for people with white skin.
Had it not been the Europeans, it would have been someone else.
So one has to wonder, what the benefit is of drawing a line in the sand, like these guys are worse than all the others, like evil and racism itself is a white construct.

If we look at this in the vacuum, what she says makes sense, but the reality is that these things d not exist in a vacuum. And that is why you see minorities being worse treated basically anywhere you go on earth.
Majority populations share the benefit of power and wealth in all corners of the world. That is not a white-people phenomenon, but a people phenomenon.
Human beings are tribal, and they are conditioned to be biased towards people they identity with; origin, ethnicity, skin color, hair color, ideology, upbringing- Lots of things that you are SOCIALIZED to be biased towards as you grow up. But this is not something that is exclusive or unique to white people.It's as natural for any ethnicity, but the lady in the piece does not put it out like this, and it's jarring.



I don't think she should have been dropped/fired. I don't agree with people being fired, removed or ostrizied the first time, they say something dumb/ignorant/misinformed in public. That line of thinking stigmatizes mistakes, but doesn't solve the underlying issue. All it will do, is to train people with bad thoughts and values to be better at avoiding it verbally, but still retain their ignorant views.
Companies and organizations, have a obligation to grow a fucking spine, and stand by their employees and people who've they've endorsed, and at least give them a chance to apologize, retrify their position or go into some sort of training course that tries to dispel them of their errors. Just dropping someone doesn't teach anyone anything.
Consequences need to be met with a solution or alternative path to why thinking or speaking or writing a certain way is bad, terrible, misguided or ignorant.
But you're rarely left with anything other than a company that is spineless and will drop all its employees at the first time of founded controversy, founded or unfounded.

I don't agree with the lady, but just because I disagree with her to the core, why should I get a sense that justice has been served because she was dropped? I just don't get this mentality.

 

[Infinite]

All white people though???

Irrevocably and without a doubt?

Yes

 

[Poor GRIMES]

She said all white people are racist. There are plenty of white people that are aware of the issues facing POC and, like I said, try to make a difference. I don't know how they're racist?



Not gonna happen. A certain portion of POC (and white people now?) seem to love saying "lol white people".

Again as a comparison, I've never seen this in the LGBT coomunity, rather we point out homophobes and homophoibia. We don't say" straight people ...."

All white people though???

Irrevocably and without a doubt?

All White people benefit from dominant White society.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

It went from "That statement was just about white supremacists" to "The benefits from racism makes everyone guilty and complicit. All white people plus all people of color who have skin lighter than I think they should be."

Well if L'Oreal had second thoughts then her follow up certainly solidified them. What a shallow asshole.

Some people think they're woke but all they did was roll over.

All White people benefit from dominant White society.

Yeah, all those dirt fucking poor hopelessly addicted Appalachian White Folks who are being used and abused by the political machine, chewed up and spit out by heavy industry that would rather see them die from cancer than give them a pay raise sure are getting that White People benefit.

 

[Trojita]

If you were in a place that was predominantly a PoC safe space as a White ally, then would you immediately jump at everyone's throats or ask passive aggressive questions? If not, then you know your place as a guest in that space and you will use that opportunity to learn


China's cultural exportation is absoltely no where near Japan or South Korea in terms of relevance. WW2 Japan, funnily enough, did many things that the West did towards other PoC nations to rise in power. Moreover. post-WW2 Japan is directly addressing their sins of the past, and so is Germany, by educating their population and making better strides towards improving relations. What has the West done for their PoC communities? What have White people done to make strides toward more equitable treatment of PoC?

I'm not talking about cultural exports. I'm talking about forces of violence and oppression as stated by the model.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Woah! Easy, easy! I'm sorry man, I didn't mean to call you the R-word! Shit, my bad, my bad. Sorry, sorry, let me tell the other people of color that we got it all wrong.

Joke's on you because I'm, by heritage, a person of color. Maybe I've experienced worse shit than you because of it, who knows. You being so smug about your blatant racism towards white people is a sight to behold.
Keep staying proud of it though, I'm sure it will go a long way.

To be better allies and people?

To know their place in a discussion involving PoC and to not let their voice overpower those that are actually affected by systemic racism?

To acknowledge their privileges and be more mindful around PoC?

To use their position to call other White people within White spaces, where they're emboldened enough to speak shit about PoC?

And who are you to know me or others don't aleardy do that? It's like you immedietly think I don't because... why exactly? Because you don't know any white people that are like that?

It went from "That statement was just about white supremacists" to "The benefits from racism makes everyone guilty and complicit. All white people plus all people of color who have skin lighter than I think they should be."

Well if L'Oreal had second thoughts then her follow up certainly solidified them. What a shallow asshole.

Some people think they're woke but all they did was roll over.

People like Apharmd certainly do think that way. Some sad shit.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

All white people though???

Irrevocably and without a doubt?

As a white guy, yes.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Explain.

Already did...

Well typically a core tenant of White Privilege is individuality. White people are more likely to be seen as a individual in most cases. Minorities don't get this and are always somehow tied into that person's race as just another ____.

Generalizations aren't always a bad thing but they can be when it's lopsided the way it is currently. That's what a lot of people don't get about generalizations. Oppressors get to enjoy individuality and use it as a shield the oppressed are mainly generalized and not given individuality.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Then they're racist and/or sexist. But not ALL white people. There are white people that go out of their way not to be racist, that actually make efforts to make change. How can you call them racist?

I'll get this one out of the way before leaving this thread. At least two or three posters are in this thread with a burner account level bad faith and I won't waste my time on that.


I'll use myself as an example. I have progressive views on gender. When my friends say some sexist shit, I call them out, go to feminidt marches, etc.

Here is what I don't do: complain that I'm not being treated specially for treating women, transmen, transwomen, etc., closer to the way they should be treated. That's bad and honestly, I would not be surprised if my reasons and commitment to supporting their agency and empowerment were questioned due to it.

I don't do it for that, and neither do those white people I hope. When women say, men ain't shit, I do not say not all men.

I acknowledge the many ways men are horrible to women or learn more, and use that knowledge to not do the same. And tell other men to not do the same. That's it.

 

[Ekai]

This is such a lovely thing to read upon coming home....do I even want to read the comments?

 

[kyser73]

In 10-20 years time we'll all be talking about Sino-privilege and the imperialism of China.

All that talk of 'systemic' prejudice, and not once do I see the word 'capitalism' in it. How does anyone think you can reform society when it runs on a system where inequality & privilege are baked in and a requirement for it to function?

 

[Miles X]

All White people benefit from dominant White society.

That's not the same as racism though. Surely racism is actively harming POC?

And before you say privilige. There are lot of homeless white people, shit out of luck. Are they racist? Reaping the benefits of white privilige?

 

[Poor GRIMES]

It went from "That statement was just about white supremacists" to "The benefits from racism makes everyone guilty and complicit. All white people plus all people of color who have skin lighter than I think they should be."

Well if L'Oreal had second thoughts then her follow up certainly solidified them. What a shallow asshole.

Some people think they're woke but all they did was roll over.

Light-skin privilege is a thing. Let me frame this:

Beyoncé is one of the biggest artist on Earth. She is light-skinned.

East Asian people have lighter skin than South Asians. East Asia has more soft power than South Asia.

Latin American countries have light-skinned figures on television and in their media.

Even South Asians themselves frame being light-skinned as desirable.

Etc.

However, PoC, no matter how light their skin is, will never be afforded the same opportunities as actual White people in White spaces. But, you can also acknowledge that lighter skinned people, regardless of race, are treated better on a global scale

 

[Madame M]

I like people who capitalize White like it's a monolithic entity.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Recent history would be the rise of communist China (Mao) and WW2 Japan.

China's borders haven't changed for 700 years.

 

[Miles X]

I'll get this one out of the way before leaving this thread. At least two or three posters are in this thread with a burner account level bad faith and I won't waste my time on that.


I'll use myself as an example. I have progressive views on gender. When my friends say some sexist shit, I call them out, go to feminidt marches, etc.

Here is what I don't do: complain that I'm not being treated specially for treating women, transmen, transwomen, etc., closer to the way they should be treated. That's bad and honestly, I would not be surprised if my reasons and commitment to supporting their agency and empowerment were questioned due to it.

I don't do it for that, and neither do those white people I hope. When women say, men ain't shit, I do say not all men.

I acknowledge the many ways men are horrible to women or learn more, and use that knowledge to not do the same. And tell other men to not do the same. That's it.

I agree with you, not asking for white people to get a tap on the back for being decent people. On the flipside don't see how they deserve to be called racist, just like how somebody would call you sexist when you're clearly not (and not looking for praise.)

 

[Poor GRIMES]

That's not the same as racism though. Surely racism is actively harming POC?

And before you say privilige. There are lot of homeless white people, shit out of luck. Are they racist? Reaping the benefits of white privilige?

PoC can also be homeless. PoC that are homeless are even more at a disadvantage versus White people that are homeless. PoC have a higher rate of being homeless as well because of the financial disparity in many White countries.

I like people who capitalize White like it's a monolithic entity.

I'll bite. What's your definition?

 

[MikeBreezy92]

That's not the same as racism though. Surely racism is actively harming POC?

And before you say privilige. There are lot of homeless white people, shit out of luck. Are they racist? Reaping the benefits of white privilige?

They could probably get a job easier than the poc homeless person if both got cleaned up and given the opportunity.

 

[kyser73]

If you were in a place that was predominantly a PoC safe space as a White ally, then would you immediately jump at everyone's throats or ask passive aggressive questions? If not, then you know your place as a guest in that space and you will use that opportunity to learn


China's cultural exportation is absoltely no where near Japan or South Korea in terms of relevance. WW2 Japan, funnily enough, did many things that the West did towards other PoC nations to rise in power. Moreover. post-WW2 Japan is directly addressing their sins of the past, and so is Germany, by educating their population and making better strides towards improving relations. What has the West done for their PoC communities? What have White people done to make strides toward more equitable treatment of PoC?

Really?

They aren't, you know. In fact over the last decade or so Japan has gone backwards in its education on its WW2 war crimes, with school text books omitting his swathes of atrocities against the Chinese & Korean populations.

 

[Hubbl3]

I like people who capitalize White like it's a monolithic entity.

I mean, Africa is the most genetically diverse continent on the planet and the African diaspora (ie. descendants of slaves in various countries around the world) has hundreds of years of separation from their ancestral homelands and hundreds of years of mixing with other people and cultures, yet here we are today lumping them all together under the monolithic title of "Black"

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Light-skin privilege is a thing. Let me frame this:

Beyoncé is one of the biggest artist on Earth. She is light-skinned.

East Asian people have lighter skin than South Asians. East Asia has more soft power than South Asia.

Latin American countries have light-skinned figures on television and in their media.

Even South Asians themselves frame being light-skinned as desirable.

Etc.

However, PoC, no matter how light their skin is, will never be afforded the same opportunities as actual White people in White spaces. But, you can also acknowledge that lighter skinned people, regardless of race, are treated better on a global scale

I know white skinned privilege is a thing. We deal with it back in China.

The issue is that the content in the OP is a disjointed scattershot mess. She begins it with saying that her statement pertains to only white racists and in the end she's thrown 90% of the world under the bus.

Look at her own skin color. By her rational, she's as guilty of being racist as a white supremacist.

That's ridiculous. That's fake "revolutionary" rhetoric.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Really?

They aren't, you know. In fact over the last decade or so Japan has gone backwards in its education on its WW2 war crimes, with school text books omitting his swathes of atrocities against the Chinese & Korean populations.

So the same shit the South has done huh? Funny how that works.

 

[Miles X]

PoC can also be homeless. PoC that are homeless are even more at a disadvantage versus White people that are homeless. PoC have a higher rate of being homeless as well because of the financial disparity in many White countries.


I'll bite. What's your definition?

You miss the point completely. I didn't say POC can't be homeless, stop stating the obvious. I'm asking if that white person living under a bridge, that has never done anything racist (except live and breath, apparantly) is enjoying any white privilige?

Something more than assumptions here please.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I'll get this one out of the way before leaving this thread. At least two or three posters are in this thread with a burner account level bad faith and I won't waste my time on that.


I'll use myself as an example. I have progressive views on gender. When my friends say some sexist shit, I call them out, go to feminidt marches, etc.

Here is what I don't do: complain that I'm not being treated specially for treating women, transmen, transwomen, etc., closer to the way they should be treated. That's bad and honestly, I would not be surprised if my reasons and commitment to supporting their agency and empowerment were questioned due to it.

I don't do it for that, and neither do those white people I hope. When women say, men ain't shit, I do say not all men.

I acknowledge the many ways men are horrible to women or learn more, and use that knowledge to not do the same. And tell other men to not do the same. That's it.

It's the other way round. It's not about complaining not being treated specially. It's about getting called a racist despite doing these things.

"I acknowledge the many ways men are horrible to women or learn more, and use that knowledge to not do the same.
And tell other men to not do the same. That's it."

And you would stay silent when someone calls you a sexist then, after reflecting on gender issues or how to solve them and engaging in discussion with other men and women about it or being active in other ways and continuing all that, simply because you exist as a man? Really?
Because that's what this is, just racist and white instead of sexist and male.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

In 10-20 years time we'll all be talking about Sino-privilege and the imperialism of China.

All that talk of 'systemic' prejudice, and not once do I see the word 'capitalism' in it. How does anyone think you can reform society when it runs on a system where inequality & privilege are baked in and a requirement for it to function?

Take the economics out of it for one second and remember that a Black man ascended to the presidency of the United States and was still flung racist accusations

You miss the point completely. I didn't say POC can't be homeless, stop stating the obvious. I'm asking if that white person living under a bridge, that has never done anything racist (except live and breath, apparantly) is enjoying any white privilige?

Something more than assumptions here please.

I believe I already answered your question by stating that PoC that are homeless are still at a disadvantage compared to homeless White people. Thus, homeless White people still have White privilege.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

They could probably get a job easier than the poc homeless person if both got cleaned up and given the opportunity.

Yeah but ain't no body giving either of them "the opportunity".

You can't prove anything with a hypothetical.

 

[Syder]

Shes not wrong but, throwing an entire race under is wrong.

So she's not wrong but she is wrong?

 

[Miles X]

Take the economics out of it for one second and remember that a Black man ascended to the presidency of the United States and was still flung racist accusations

I believe I already answered your question by stating that PoC that are homeless are still at a disadvantage compared to homeless White people. Thus, homeless White people still have White privilege.

How? I said no assumptions as well.

 

[Madame M]

I mean, Africa is the most genetically diverse continent on the planet and the African diaspora (ie. descendants of slaves in various countries around the world) has hundreds of years of separation from their ancestral homelands and hundreds of years of mixing with other people and cultures, yet here we are today lumping them all together under the monolithic title of "Black"

I've never seen "black" capitalized by people otherwise educated on traditional capitalization rules before the way white has been lately.

I'll bite. What's your definition?

What is my definition of what?

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Take the economics out of it for one second and remember that a Black man ascended to the presidency of the United States and was still flung racist accusations

Capital only discriminates as an ends to a means: it's own reproduction.

I believe I already answered your question by stating that PoC that are homeless are still at a disadvantage compared to homeless White people. Thus, homeless White people still have White privilege.

Garbage politics.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Yeah but ain't no body giving either of them "the opportunity".

You can't prove anything with a hypothetical.

Well yeah that's because they're so far down the rung that classism affects them more than anything else. You have to go with hypotheticals in any case at this point arguing any point.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

Can't believe that people are unironically declaring all white people racist in this thread.

Get it together Gaf.

 

[iirate]

Because the US is the only country in the world where white people live and that quote doesn't target all white people, right?

I fucked up, my bad. I'm used to speaking specifically to our issues in the US(I'm a white person living in Dallas' suburban "halo"), and I did a poor job of considering context here. I still stand by her and her post.

 

[Hubbl3]

I've never seen "black" capitalized by people otherwise educated on traditional capitalization rules before the way white has been lately.

The census definitions for race even has both capitalized

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

She is right about the socializing part, wrong about the blatant generalization.
I do think that if you're white and don't go against the grain, you'll be racist to some degree. The same goes about different sexuality or gender. But saying stupid stuff "the white race is the most evil and oppressive" sound like some Farrakhan level of stupidity.

It's idiotic to say that racism only exist among whites though. I do think however that races played such an important role in western history that it's only natural that the problem is more prevalent and significant than in most of the world, by large.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Well yeah that's because they're so far down the rung that classism affects them more than anything else. You have to go with hypotheticals in any case at this point arguing any point.

Or you could drop the pretense and the Lord of the Flies roleplay and recognize that two men living under a bridge and dealing with all of that baggage that comes with it would benefit much more without someone like you pointing at one person while telling the other about how much better they have it in comparison.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

How? I said no assumptions as well.

Capital only discriminates as an ends to a means: it's own reproduction.

Garbage politics.

Both of your refusal to acknowledge that there are many forms of privilege is upsetting:

Race - being born White is a privilege
Class - having capital is a privilege
Able-bodied- being able-bodied is a privilege
Sex - being a man is a privilege
Sexuality - being Straight is a privilege
Etc.

A rich Black man is still disadvantaged compared to a rich White man.
A poor Black man is still disadvantaged compared to a poor White man.

On the other end of the spectrum, a rich Black man has an advantage compared to a rich Black woman of equal capital, because of his sex

Knowing the intersectionality of different types of privilege will allow you to acknowledge your own. Acknowledgement is not feeling guilty about your own livelihood. It's not to make you feel bad about who you are.

I am able-bodied, yet, I acknowledge my blessings and try to make things better for those that are not by involving myself in service projects that can better the lives of disabled people. Etc.

 

[Ishan]

the fuck with some posters in this thread agreeing with the stupid blanket statement.

 

[Madame M]

The census definitions for race even has both capitalized

Those words are at the beginning of the text, which is typically capitalized irrespective if it is talking about black and white race.

Any good examples?

 

[Miles X]

Both of your refusal to acknowledge that there are many forms of privilege is upsetting:

Race - being born White is a privilege
Class - having capital is a privilege
Able-bodied- being able-bodied is a privilege
Sex - being a man is a privilege
Sexuality - being Straight is a privilege
Etc.

A rich Black man is still disadvantaged compared to a rich White man.
A poor Black man is still disadvantaged compared to a poor White man.

On the other end of the spectrum, a rich Black man has an advantage compared to a rich Black woman of equal capital, because of his sex

Knowing the intersectionality of different types of privilege will allow you to acknowledge your own. Acknowledgement is not feeling guilty about your own livelihood. It's not to make you feel bad about who you are.

I am able-bodied, yet, I acknowledge my blessings and try to make things better for those that are not by involving myself in service projects that can better the lives of disabled people. Etc.

Not at all, where on earth have I refused acknowledgment?! I completely agree white people are priviliged. You keep getting away from my example though, because you can't give specifics. That poor, homeless white man under the bridge, doesn't enjoy any white privilige. Therefore, how can he be racist?

 

[Kthulhu]

If you were in a place that was predominantly a PoC safe space as a White ally, then would you immediately jump at everyone's throats or ask passive aggressive questions? If not, then you know your place as a guest in that space and you will use that opportunity to learn


China's cultural exportation is absoltely no where near Japan or South Korea in terms of relevance. WW2 Japan, funnily enough, did many things that the West did towards other PoC nations to rise in power. Moreover. post-WW2 Japan is directly addressing their sins of the past, and so is Germany, by educating their population and making better strides towards improving relations. What has the West done for their PoC communities? What have White people done to make strides toward more equitable treatment of PoC?

Unfortunately, no they are not.